Job posts and Node.js mailing list guidelines (was: PHP/MongoDB Developer - Pants optional) - nodejs

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Message from discussion Job posts and Node.js mailing list guidelines (was: PHP/MongoDB Developer - Pants optional)
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Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 18:00:56 -0700
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=hHLxMCqfr=8TXxq9GN_9ZNF=...@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [nodejs] Job posts and Node.js mailing list guidelines (was:
 PHP/MongoDB Developer - Pants optional)
From: Isaac Schlueter <i...@izs.me>
To: nodejs@googlegroups.com
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Boy, humans sure are fun and surprising.  This is so much more
controversial than I'd expected. :D

I've heard a lot of opinions today from a bunch of people.  Some are
definitely more right than others, since they conflict, but I'm not
sure which.  Here's what we know, and I hope most of this is fairly
uncontroversial:

1) A price tag on a job board will prevent some valid jobs from being poste=
d.
2) A price tag on a job board will increase the average validity of
the jobs that *are* posted there.
3) Job posts on the mailing list are hard to get right.
4) A job board no one checks is not very valuable to post to.
5) A job board no one posts to is not very valuable to check.
6) The node job board is not well publicized.


For #6, at least, this link in the footer should help a lot:

> Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/


I don't really see how emails that are "easy to ignore" are any better
(in terms of pure publicity) than a job board that no one visits.
Clearly, either the emails are not as easy to ignore as the website,
or they're not any more useful for an employer.

The community reaction to job posts seems to indicate to me that
they're not all that easy to ignore.  Node is brand new.  I think the
number of "pure node.js" jobs out there is pretty slim.  There are a
lot of jobs, though, that involve a lot of bash and server admin
stuff, maybe some python or ruby, some front-end jQuery/html/css type
stuff, and so on.

None of this is set in stone.  Let's see if the added publicity makes
any difference.  What I really don't want to do is come up with a set
of rules more complicated than "Job posts should go at X", and
continue having these drawn out debates about it.


Maybe we need to flip that whole thing on its head, and have a place
where noders can post their availability and github info, and get
contacted directly.


On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 16:37, Stephen Belanger <cyruzdr...@gmail.com> wrot=
e:
> +1
> I agree completely. Forcing paid listings kills smaller projects which co=
uld
> be contributing to the growth of the community. Also, sending a weekly
> digest to the mailing list could work well.
> On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 4:28 PM, Tauren Mills <tau...@groovee.com> wrote:
>>
>> +1 for Mikeal's suggestion.
>>
>> I would prefer to see only relevant job postings on this list. I am
>> not going to go looking for them somewhere else, it just isn't
>> something that I will think to do on a regular basis. Out-of-sight,
>> out-of-mind. And I certainly wouldn't subscribe to a jobs-only mailing
>> list and be inundated with a bunch of recruiter crap.
>>
>> However, if we must use a separate website for posting jobs, why
>> couldn't jobs.nodejs.com or nodejobs.com send out a weekly report to
>> this list? The announcement would provide a list of the job titles
>> posted that week. It could be easily ignored by those who don't care,
>> and would remind others to go check out the job board.
>>
>> Regarding the cost, I understand the reasoning to charge something to
>> weed out noise. But aren't we trying to foster and grow this
>> community? Setting up barriers like this will probably reduce the
>> number of opportunities. For instance, if I am just looking for
>> someone to help me out with something small for a day on a consulting
>> basis, the $100 fee could represent a good size chunk of my budget. At
>> least until Node becomes a bit more mainstream, it might be wise to
>> not charge a fee.
>>
>> Lastly, when a company is looking for someone to hire, many don't like
>> to limit themselves to one outlet. Granted, this list is probably the
>> best place to find node developers. But StackOverflow's Careers 2.0
>> service ($350) might be appealing too. These costs start adding up,
>> especially for a bootstrapped startup.
>> http://careers.stackoverflow.com/jobs?searchTerm=3Dnode.js&location=3D
>>
>> Just my 2c.
>>
>> Tauren
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 3:14 PM, Joe Developer
>> <joe.d.develo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sat, Jun 25, 2011 at 5:04 AM, Ben Noordhuis <i...@bnoordhuis.nl>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 23:46, Matt <hel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 5:09 PM, Isaac Schlueter <i...@izs.me> wrote:
>> >> >> Yeah. =C2=A0Any company that's serious about hiring someone should=
 be
>> >> >> able
>> >> >> to find room in their budget to do this. =C2=A0I remain unconvince=
d that
>> >> >> this is actually a blocker for many companies. =C2=A0Feedback from=
 actual
>> >> >> hiring managers facing this problem would be helpful.
>> >> >
>> >> > I am involved in the hiring process, I'm not just spouting ideas fo=
r
>> >> > the
>> >> > sake of it. Now granted I'm with a super-large company (18k
>> >> > employees),
>> >> > and
>> >> > we're not hiring node people, but here if you're not using a
>> >> > previously
>> >> > approved supplier (in this case a recruitment agency) then good luc=
k
>> >> > getting
>> >> > money approved. It just won't happen.
>> >>
>> >> Me too post. I did hiring at a company with 4k employees. Getting a
>> >> $100 expenditure authorized could easily take over a month there. I
>> >> should tell you sometime about that one lousy server we wanted
>> >> provisioned...
>> >>
>> > Maybe that is for the best then .. is that really something you would
>> > wish
>> > on someone else? ;)
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/
>> >> Posting guidelines:
>> >> https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines
>> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> >> Groups "nodejs" group.
>> >> To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com
>> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> >> nodejs+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>> >> For more options, visit this group at
>> >> http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=3Den?hl=3Den
>> >
>> > --
>> > Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/
>> > Posting guidelines:
>> > https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> > Groups "nodejs" group.
>> > To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com
>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> > nodejs+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>> > For more options, visit this group at
>> > http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=3Den?hl=3Den
>> >
>>
>> --
>> Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/
>> Posting guidelines:
>> https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups "nodejs" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> nodejs+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=3Den?hl=3Den
>
> --
> Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/
> Posting guidelines:
> https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "nodejs" group.
> To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com
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> nodejs+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
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