Hi, I'm tring to understand the structure of the process.env object, but the online docs just say 'An object containing the user environment. See environ(7).'
I can't find 'environ(7)' (whatever that is!). Is this documented somewhere?
On Thursday, November 1, 2012 12:04:59 AM UTC+11, Bgsosh wrote:
> Hi, I'm tring to understand the structure of the process.env object, but > the online docs just say 'An object containing the user environment. See > environ(7).'
> I can't find 'environ(7)' (whatever that is!). Is this documented > somewhere?
> Hi, I'm tring to understand the structure of the process.env object, but the online docs just say 'An object containing the user environment. See environ(7).'
> I can't find 'environ(7)' (whatever that is!). Is this documented somewhere?
> It's just an object that contains all your env. variables.
> On Wednesday 31 October 2012 at 14:04, Bgsosh wrote:
> Hi, I'm tring to understand the structure of the process.env object, but
> the online docs just say 'An object containing the user environment. See
> environ(7).'
> I can't find 'environ(7)' (whatever that is!). Is this documented
> somewhere?
On Oct 31, 2:04 pm, Bgsosh <bgs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi, I'm tring to understand the structure of the process.env object, but
> the online docs just say 'An object containing the user environment. See
> environ(7).'
> I can't find 'environ(7)' (whatever that is!). Is this documented
> somewhere?
Type this in the terminal:
$ man 7 environ
ENVIRON(7) BSD Miscellaneous Information Manual
ENVIRON(7)
NAME
environ -- user environment
SYNOPSIS
extern char **environ;
DESCRIPTION
An array of strings called the environment is made available by
execve(2) when a process
begins. By convention these strings have the form
``name=value''. The following names are
used by various commands:
BLOCKSIZE The size of the block units used by several commands,
most notably df(1), du(1) and
ls(1). BLOCKSIZE may be specified in units of a byte
by specifying a number, in
units of a kilobyte by specifying a number followed by
``K'' or ``k'', in units of a
megabyte by specifying a number followed by ``M'' or
``m'' and in units of a giga-
byte by specifying a number followed by ``G'' or
``g''. Sizes less than 512 bytes
or greater than a gigabyte are ignored.
EXINIT A startup list of commands read by ex(1), edit(1), and
vi(1).
<jorge%jorgechamorro....@gtempaccount.com> wrote:
> On Oct 31, 2:04 pm, Bgsosh <bgs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi, I'm tring to understand the structure of the process.env object, but
>> the online docs just say 'An object containing the user environment. See
>> environ(7).'
>> I can't find 'environ(7)' (whatever that is!). Is this documented
>> somewhere?
> Type this in the terminal:
> $ man 7 environ
That'd be tricky for Windows users to do if they're not running a
*nix-like shell. (Cygwin comes to mind)
I'd imagine the best bet for Windows users would be to search for "man
7 environ" on the web to find a copy of the relevant man page; there
are a number of mirrors like the one Adam suggested.
> <jorge%jorgechamorro....@gtempaccount.com> wrote:
> > On Oct 31, 2:04 pm, Bgsosh <bgs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Hi, I'm tring to understand the structure of the process.env object, but
> >> the online docs just say 'An object containing the user environment. See
> >> environ(7).'
> >> I can't find 'environ(7)' (whatever that is!). Is this documented
> >> somewhere?
> > Type this in the terminal:
> > $ man 7 environ
> That'd be tricky for Windows users to do if they're not running a
> *nix-like shell. (Cygwin comes to mind)
> I'd imagine the best bet for Windows users would be to search for "man
> 7 environ" on the web to find a copy of the relevant man page; there
> are a number of mirrors like the one Adam suggested.
jorge%jorgechamorro....@gtempaccount.com> wrote:
> On 31 oct, 17:26, Scott Elcomb <pse...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Jorge
> > <jorge%jorgechamorro....@gtempaccount.com> wrote:
> > > On Oct 31, 2:04 pm, Bgsosh <bgs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> Hi, I'm tring to understand the structure of the process.env object,
> but
> > >> the online docs just say 'An object containing the user environment.
> See
> > >> environ(7).'
> > >> I can't find 'environ(7)' (whatever that is!). Is this documented
> > >> somewhere?
> > > Type this in the terminal:
> > > $ man 7 environ
> > That'd be tricky for Windows users to do if they're not running a
> > *nix-like shell. (Cygwin comes to mind)
> > I'd imagine the best bet for Windows users would be to search for "man
> > 7 environ" on the web to find a copy of the relevant man page; there
> > are a number of mirrors like the one Adam suggested.
> On 31 oct, 17:26, Scott Elcomb <pse...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Jorge
> > <jorge%jorgechamorro....@gtempaccount.com> wrote:
> > > On Oct 31, 2:04 pm, Bgsosh <bgs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> Hi, I'm tring to understand the structure of the process.env object,
> but
> > >> the online docs just say 'An object containing the user environment.
> See
> > >> environ(7).'
> > >> I can't find 'environ(7)' (whatever that is!). Is this documented
> > >> somewhere?
> > > Type this in the terminal:
> > > $ man 7 environ
> > That'd be tricky for Windows users to do if they're not running a
> > *nix-like shell. (Cygwin comes to mind)
> > I'd imagine the best bet for Windows users would be to search for "man
> > 7 environ" on the web to find a copy of the relevant man page; there
> > are a number of mirrors like the one Adam suggested.
If the docs covered every aspect of how programming networks, child
processes, systems and filesystems worked they would be huge.
There's a place for tutorials though - but it's not in the core docs IMHO.
If you don't know what an environment variable is then you have some basic
learning to do before diving straight into programming.
On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 7:28 PM, SL <bgs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Or we could make the docs a bit clearer...
> On 31 October 2012 18:46, Jorge <jorge%jorgechamorro....@gtempaccount.com>wrote:
>> On 31 oct, 17:26, Scott Elcomb <pse...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Jorge
>> > <jorge%jorgechamorro....@gtempaccount.com> wrote:
>> > > On Oct 31, 2:04 pm, Bgsosh <bgs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >> Hi, I'm tring to understand the structure of the process.env object,
>> but
>> > >> the online docs just say 'An object containing the user environment.
>> See
>> > >> environ(7).'
>> > >> I can't find 'environ(7)' (whatever that is!). Is this documented
>> > >> somewhere?
>> > > Type this in the terminal:
>> > > $ man 7 environ
>> > That'd be tricky for Windows users to do if they're not running a
>> > *nix-like shell. (Cygwin comes to mind)
>> > I'd imagine the best bet for Windows users would be to search for "man
>> > 7 environ" on the web to find a copy of the relevant man page; there
>> > are a number of mirrors like the one Adam suggested.
On Thursday, November 1, 2012 5:13:39 PM UTC+4, Matt Sergeant wrote:
> If the docs covered every aspect of how programming networks, child > processes, systems and filesystems worked they would be huge.
> There's a place for tutorials though - but it's not in the core docs IMHO. > If you don't know what an environment variable is then you have some basic > learning to do before diving straight into programming.
> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 7:28 PM, SL <bgs...@gmail.com <javascript:>>wrote:
>> Or we could make the docs a bit clearer...
>> On 31 October 2012 18:46, Jorge <jorge%jorge...@gtempaccount.com<javascript:> >> > wrote:
>>> On 31 oct, 17:26, Scott Elcomb <pse...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> > On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Jorge
>>> > <jorge%jorgechamorro....@gtempaccount.com> wrote: >>> > > On Oct 31, 2:04 pm, Bgsosh <bgs...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> > >> Hi, I'm tring to understand the structure of the process.env >>> object, but >>> > >> the online docs just say 'An object containing the user >>> environment. See >>> > >> environ(7).'
>>> > >> I can't find 'environ(7)' (whatever that is!). Is this documented >>> > >> somewhere?
>>> > > Type this in the terminal:
>>> > > $ man 7 environ
>>> > That'd be tricky for Windows users to do if they're not running a >>> > *nix-like shell. (Cygwin comes to mind)
>>> > I'd imagine the best bet for Windows users would be to search for "man >>> > 7 environ" on the web to find a copy of the relevant man page; there >>> > are a number of mirrors like the one Adam suggested.
Wow, thanks for the condescending and arrogant comment! I'm not suggesting
there should be a 'tutorial' about any of those things you mentioned.
However the docs at the moment are IMO a bit ambiguous about this point -
it just says "An object containing the user environment. See environ(7)."
I didn't realise immediately that this is talking about the OS environment
variables - I'm sure I'm not the only one.
On 1 November 2012 14:13, Matt <hel...@gmail.com> wrote:
> If the docs covered every aspect of how programming networks, child
> processes, systems and filesystems worked they would be huge.
> There's a place for tutorials though - but it's not in the core docs IMHO.
> If you don't know what an environment variable is then you have some basic
> learning to do before diving straight into programming.
> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 7:28 PM, SL <bgs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Or we could make the docs a bit clearer...
>> On 31 October 2012 18:46, Jorge <jorge%jorgechamorro....@gtempaccount.com
>> > wrote:
>>> On 31 oct, 17:26, Scott Elcomb <pse...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Jorge
>>> > <jorge%jorgechamorro....@gtempaccount.com> wrote:
>>> > > On Oct 31, 2:04 pm, Bgsosh <bgs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > >> Hi, I'm tring to understand the structure of the process.env
>>> object, but
>>> > >> the online docs just say 'An object containing the user
>>> environment. See
>>> > >> environ(7).'
>>> > >> I can't find 'environ(7)' (whatever that is!). Is this documented
>>> > >> somewhere?
>>> > > Type this in the terminal:
>>> > > $ man 7 environ
>>> > That'd be tricky for Windows users to do if they're not running a
>>> > *nix-like shell. (Cygwin comes to mind)
>>> > I'd imagine the best bet for Windows users would be to search for "man
>>> > 7 environ" on the web to find a copy of the relevant man page; there
>>> > are a number of mirrors like the one Adam suggested.
> I think that common nodejs related env variables like NODE_ENV or
> NODE_DEBUG should be there, but there's no need to add any others.
> On Thursday, November 1, 2012 5:13:39 PM UTC+4, Matt Sergeant wrote:
>> If the docs covered every aspect of how programming networks, child
>> processes, systems and filesystems worked they would be huge.
>> There's a place for tutorials though - but it's not in the core docs
>> IMHO. If you don't know what an environment variable is then you have some
>> basic learning to do before diving straight into programming.
>> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 7:28 PM, SL <bgs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Or we could make the docs a bit clearer...
>>> On 31 October 2012 18:46, Jorge <jorge%jorge...@**gtempaccount.com>wrote:
>>>> On 31 oct, 17:26, Scott Elcomb <pse...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> > On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Jorge
>>>> > <jorge%jorgechamorro....@**gtempaccount.com> wrote:
>>>> > > On Oct 31, 2:04 pm, Bgsosh <bgs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> > >> Hi, I'm tring to understand the structure of the process.env
>>>> object, but
>>>> > >> the online docs just say 'An object containing the user
>>>> environment. See
>>>> > >> environ(7).'
>>>> > >> I can't find 'environ(7)' (whatever that is!). Is this documented
>>>> > >> somewhere?
>>>> > > Type this in the terminal:
>>>> > > $ man 7 environ
>>>> > That'd be tricky for Windows users to do if they're not running a
>>>> > *nix-like shell. (Cygwin comes to mind)
>>>> > I'd imagine the best bet for Windows users would be to search for "man
>>>> > 7 environ" on the web to find a copy of the relevant man page; there
>>>> > are a number of mirrors like the one Adam suggested.
It wasn't condescending; "topic(page#)" like "environ(7)" is a very
common way to express man pages, and if you aren't aware of what the
user environment is you should probably do more research. Had you typed
"environ(7)" into google before getting butthurt at the docs, you
probably would have found out exactly what it was with no help from
anyone. There is no reason to repost the manual page since there is
already a manual page for it, the docs are fine the way they are; you
just need to try to look a little harder, or be grateful when people
help.
-Chad
From: nodejs@googlegroups.com [mailto:nodejs@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of SL
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 12:16 PM
To: nodejs@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [nodejs] Re: process.env - documentation?
Wow, thanks for the condescending and arrogant comment! I'm not
suggesting there should be a 'tutorial' about any of those things you
mentioned. However the docs at the moment are IMO a bit ambiguous about
this point - it just says "An object containing the user environment.
See environ(7)." I didn't realise immediately that this is talking
about the OS environment variables - I'm sure I'm not the only one.
On 1 November 2012 14:13, Matt <hel...@gmail.com> wrote:
If the docs covered every aspect of how programming networks, child
processes, systems and filesystems worked they would be huge.
There's a place for tutorials though - but it's not in the core docs
IMHO. If you don't know what an environment variable is then you have
some basic learning to do before diving straight into programming.
On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 7:28 PM, SL <bgs...@gmail.com> wrote:
Or we could make the docs a bit clearer...
On 31 October 2012 18:46, Jorge
<jorge%jorgechamorro....@gtempaccount.com
> <jorge%jorgechamorro....@gtempaccount.com
<mailto:jorge%25jorgechamorro....@gtempaccount.com> > wrote:
> > On Oct 31, 2:04 pm, Bgsosh <bgs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Hi, I'm tring to understand the structure of the process.env
object, but
> >> the online docs just say 'An object containing the user
environment. See
> >> environ(7).'
> >> I can't find 'environ(7)' (whatever that is!). Is this documented
> >> somewhere?
> > Type this in the terminal:
> > $ man 7 environ
> That'd be tricky for Windows users to do if they're not running a
> *nix-like shell. (Cygwin comes to mind)
> I'd imagine the best bet for Windows users would be to search for "man
> 7 environ" on the web to find a copy of the relevant man page; there
> are a number of mirrors like the one Adam suggested.
I've been using since before it was popular. Back in the early days,
the docs for node were full of references to linux man pages like
this. My background was scripting languages and I had never done any
C programming so I had no clue what readdir(3) meant. To open a file
back then you had to manually bitwise OR the various unix flags
together yourself. (Using "r", "w", "a", etc was an addition I made)
Things now are much easier for people without a C background and there
are many fewer parts left in the docs that assume knowledge of man
pages.
That said, I did eventually figure out it was referencing man pages.
I was a linux user after all, I had just never used man to lookup C
APis.
How about we just link to one of the man mirrors in the API docs? I
was an experienced linux user and I still didn't know what the docs
were talking about, I can only imagine how confused windows users
would be.
On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 11:34 AM, Chad Engler <Chad.Eng...@patlive.com> wrote:
> It wasn’t condescending; “topic(page#)” like “environ(7)” is a very common
> way to express man pages, and if you aren’t aware of what the user
> environment is you should probably do more research. Had you typed
> “environ(7)” into google before getting butthurt at the docs, you probably
> would have found out exactly what it was with no help from anyone. There is
> no reason to repost the manual page since there is already a manual page for
> it, the docs are fine the way they are; you just need to try to look a
> little harder, or be grateful when people help.
> -Chad
> From: nodejs@googlegroups.com [mailto:nodejs@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
> SL
> Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 12:16 PM
> To: nodejs@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [nodejs] Re: process.env - documentation?
> Wow, thanks for the condescending and arrogant comment! I'm not suggesting
> there should be a 'tutorial' about any of those things you mentioned.
> However the docs at the moment are IMO a bit ambiguous about this point - it
> just says "An object containing the user environment. See environ(7)." I
> didn't realise immediately that this is talking about the OS environment
> variables - I'm sure I'm not the only one.
> On 1 November 2012 14:13, Matt <hel...@gmail.com> wrote:
> If the docs covered every aspect of how programming networks, child
> processes, systems and filesystems worked they would be huge.
> There's a place for tutorials though - but it's not in the core docs IMHO.
> If you don't know what an environment variable is then you have some basic
> learning to do before diving straight into programming.
> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 7:28 PM, SL <bgs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Or we could make the docs a bit clearer...
> On 31 October 2012 18:46, Jorge <jorge%jorgechamorro....@gtempaccount.com>
> wrote:
> On 31 oct, 17:26, Scott Elcomb <pse...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Jorge
>> <jorge%jorgechamorro....@gtempaccount.com> wrote:
>> > On Oct 31, 2:04 pm, Bgsosh <bgs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> Hi, I'm tring to understand the structure of the process.env object,
>> >> but
>> >> the online docs just say 'An object containing the user environment.
>> >> See
>> >> environ(7).'
>> >> I can't find 'environ(7)' (whatever that is!). Is this documented
>> >> somewhere?
>> > Type this in the terminal:
>> > $ man 7 environ
>> That'd be tricky for Windows users to do if they're not running a
>> *nix-like shell. (Cygwin comes to mind)
>> I'd imagine the best bet for Windows users would be to search for "man
>> 7 environ" on the web to find a copy of the relevant man page; there
>> are a number of mirrors like the one Adam suggested.
You maybe misread me - I *am* suggesting there should be a tutorial about
those things. I just think it belongs outside of the node core docs. Or in
a book.
The node core docs should give you exactly accurate minimal information to
point you in the right direction (aka google) if you need/want to know more.
On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 12:16 PM, SL <bgs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Wow, thanks for the condescending and arrogant comment! I'm not
> suggesting there should be a 'tutorial' about any of those things you
> mentioned. However the docs at the moment are IMO a bit ambiguous about
> this point - it just says "An object containing the user environment. See
> environ(7)." I didn't realise immediately that this is talking about the
> OS environment variables - I'm sure I'm not the only one.
> On 1 November 2012 14:13, Matt <hel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> If the docs covered every aspect of how programming networks, child
>> processes, systems and filesystems worked they would be huge.
>> There's a place for tutorials though - but it's not in the core docs
>> IMHO. If you don't know what an environment variable is then you have some
>> basic learning to do before diving straight into programming.
>> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 7:28 PM, SL <bgs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Or we could make the docs a bit clearer...
>>> On 31 October 2012 18:46, Jorge <
>>> jorge%jorgechamorro....@gtempaccount.com> wrote:
>>>> On 31 oct, 17:26, Scott Elcomb <pse...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> > On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Jorge
>>>> > <jorge%jorgechamorro....@gtempaccount.com> wrote:
>>>> > > On Oct 31, 2:04 pm, Bgsosh <bgs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> > >> Hi, I'm tring to understand the structure of the process.env
>>>> object, but
>>>> > >> the online docs just say 'An object containing the user
>>>> environment. See
>>>> > >> environ(7).'
>>>> > >> I can't find 'environ(7)' (whatever that is!). Is this documented
>>>> > >> somewhere?
>>>> > > Type this in the terminal:
>>>> > > $ man 7 environ
>>>> > That'd be tricky for Windows users to do if they're not running a
>>>> > *nix-like shell. (Cygwin comes to mind)
>>>> > I'd imagine the best bet for Windows users would be to search for "man
>>>> > 7 environ" on the web to find a copy of the relevant man page; there
>>>> > are a number of mirrors like the one Adam suggested.
> I've been using since before it was popular. Back in the early days,
> the docs for node were full of references to linux man pages like
> this. My background was scripting languages and I had never done any
> C programming so I had no clue what readdir(3) meant. To open a file
> back then you had to manually bitwise OR the various unix flags
> together yourself. (Using "r", "w", "a", etc was an addition I made)
> Things now are much easier for people without a C background and there
> are many fewer parts left in the docs that assume knowledge of man
> pages.
> That said, I did eventually figure out it was referencing man pages.
> I was a linux user after all, I had just never used man to lookup C
> APis.
> How about we just link to one of the man mirrors in the API docs? I
> was an experienced linux user and I still didn't know what the docs
> were talking about, I can only imagine how confused windows users
> would be.
> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 11:34 AM, Chad Engler <Chad.Eng...@patlive.com>
> wrote:
> > It wasn’t condescending; “topic(page#)” like “environ(7)” is a very
> common
> > way to express man pages, and if you aren’t aware of what the user
> > environment is you should probably do more research. Had you typed
> > “environ(7)” into google before getting butthurt at the docs, you
> probably
> > would have found out exactly what it was with no help from anyone. There
> is
> > no reason to repost the manual page since there is already a manual page
> for
> > it, the docs are fine the way they are; you just need to try to look a
> > little harder, or be grateful when people help.
> > -Chad
> > From: nodejs@googlegroups.com [mailto:nodejs@googlegroups.com] On
> Behalf Of
> > SL
> > Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 12:16 PM
> > To: nodejs@googlegroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [nodejs] Re: process.env - documentation?
> > Wow, thanks for the condescending and arrogant comment! I'm not
> suggesting
> > there should be a 'tutorial' about any of those things you mentioned.
> > However the docs at the moment are IMO a bit ambiguous about this point
> - it
> > just says "An object containing the user environment. See environ(7)." I
> > didn't realise immediately that this is talking about the OS environment
> > variables - I'm sure I'm not the only one.
> > On 1 November 2012 14:13, Matt <hel...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > If the docs covered every aspect of how programming networks, child
> > processes, systems and filesystems worked they would be huge.
> > There's a place for tutorials though - but it's not in the core docs
> IMHO.
> > If you don't know what an environment variable is then you have some
> basic
> > learning to do before diving straight into programming.
> > On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 7:28 PM, SL <bgs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Or we could make the docs a bit clearer...
> > On 31 October 2012 18:46, Jorge <
> jorge%jorgechamorro....@gtempaccount.com>
> > wrote:
> > On 31 oct, 17:26, Scott Elcomb <pse...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Jorge
> >> <jorge%jorgechamorro....@gtempaccount.com> wrote:
> >> > On Oct 31, 2:04 pm, Bgsosh <bgs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> Hi, I'm tring to understand the structure of the process.env object,
> >> >> but
> >> >> the online docs just say 'An object containing the user environment.
> >> >> See
> >> >> environ(7).'
> >> >> I can't find 'environ(7)' (whatever that is!). Is this documented
> >> >> somewhere?
> >> > Type this in the terminal:
> >> > $ man 7 environ
> >> That'd be tricky for Windows users to do if they're not running a
> >> *nix-like shell. (Cygwin comes to mind)
> >> I'd imagine the best bet for Windows users would be to search for "man
> >> 7 environ" on the web to find a copy of the relevant man page; there
> >> are a number of mirrors like the one Adam suggested.
I really think all of this could have been avoided, and new knowledge
consumed using this simple process that has guided me for years:
1. Encounter unknown term, phrase, or idea
2. Copy unknown term, phrase, or idea to clipboard
3. Paste unknown term, phrase, or idea into a search engine search
bar (I tend to use Google)
4. Select "Search"
5. View results, which 98% of the time will clear up confusion.
If this process fails, then repeat using similar terms. If that also
fails, then I usually head to StackOverflow/mailing lists.
My point was there was no attempt to solve this besides "tell me what I
need to know" and "We should fix the docs so people who have never
developed before can use them."
-Chad
From: nodejs@googlegroups.com [mailto:nodejs@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of SL
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 12:49 PM
To: nodejs@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [nodejs] Re: process.env - documentation?
As you guessed, I'm developing on Windows. Thanks for the
understanding! Yes a link would have avoided all confusion.
On 1 November 2012 17:42, Tim Caswell <t...@creationix.com> wrote:
I've been using since before it was popular. Back in the early days,
the docs for node were full of references to linux man pages like
this. My background was scripting languages and I had never done any
C programming so I had no clue what readdir(3) meant. To open a file
back then you had to manually bitwise OR the various unix flags
together yourself. (Using "r", "w", "a", etc was an addition I made)
Things now are much easier for people without a C background and there
are many fewer parts left in the docs that assume knowledge of man
pages.
That said, I did eventually figure out it was referencing man pages.
I was a linux user after all, I had just never used man to lookup C
APis.
How about we just link to one of the man mirrors in the API docs? I
was an experienced linux user and I still didn't know what the docs
were talking about, I can only imagine how confused windows users
would be.
On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 11:34 AM, Chad Engler <Chad.Eng...@patlive.com>
wrote:
> It wasn't condescending; "topic(page#)" like "environ(7)" is a very
common
> way to express man pages, and if you aren't aware of what the user
> environment is you should probably do more research. Had you typed
> "environ(7)" into google before getting butthurt at the docs, you
probably
> would have found out exactly what it was with no help from anyone.
There is
> no reason to repost the manual page since there is already a manual
page for
> it, the docs are fine the way they are; you just need to try to look a
> little harder, or be grateful when people help.
> -Chad
> From: nodejs@googlegroups.com [mailto:nodejs@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of
> SL
> Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 12:16 PM
> To: nodejs@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [nodejs] Re: process.env - documentation?
> Wow, thanks for the condescending and arrogant comment! I'm not
suggesting
> there should be a 'tutorial' about any of those things you mentioned.
> However the docs at the moment are IMO a bit ambiguous about this
point - it
> just says "An object containing the user environment. See environ(7)."
I
> didn't realise immediately that this is talking about the OS
environment
> variables - I'm sure I'm not the only one.
> On 1 November 2012 14:13, Matt <hel...@gmail.com> wrote:
> If the docs covered every aspect of how programming networks, child
> processes, systems and filesystems worked they would be huge.
> There's a place for tutorials though - but it's not in the core docs
IMHO.
> If you don't know what an environment variable is then you have some
basic
> learning to do before diving straight into programming.
> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 7:28 PM, SL <bgs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 31 oct, 17:26, Scott Elcomb <pse...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Jorge
>> <jorge%jorgechamorro....@gtempaccount.com
<mailto:jorge%25jorgechamorro....@gtempaccount.com> > wrote:
>> > On Oct 31, 2:04 pm, Bgsosh <bgs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> Hi, I'm tring to understand the structure of the process.env
object,
>> >> but
>> >> the online docs just say 'An object containing the user
environment.
>> >> See
>> >> environ(7).'
>> >> I can't find 'environ(7)' (whatever that is!). Is this documented
>> >> somewhere?
>> > Type this in the terminal:
>> > $ man 7 environ
>> That'd be tricky for Windows users to do if they're not running a
>> *nix-like shell. (Cygwin comes to mind)
>> I'd imagine the best bet for Windows users would be to search for
"man
>> 7 environ" on the web to find a copy of the relevant man page; there
>> are a number of mirrors like the one Adam suggested.
> Perhaps Windowzs users should better search for "environment
> variables" @ msdn or something, I guess, yeah.
> --
> Jorge.
> --
> Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/ > Posting guidelines:
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Ok, last post as the vibe here is a distinctly unfriendly... It's quite
simple: When I read 'see environ(7)' I assumed that was a reference to
another part of the node docs. When a reference is made to another source,
I'm used to seeing the source named. If it had said 'see: man-pages
environ(7)' there probably would have been no misunderstanding.
On 1 November 2012 17:58, Chad Engler <Chad.Eng...@patlive.com> wrote:
> I really think all of this could have been avoided, and new knowledge
> consumed using this simple process that has guided me for years:****
> ** **
> **1. **Encounter unknown term, phrase, or idea****
> **2. **Copy unknown term, phrase, or idea to clipboard****
> **3. **Paste unknown term, phrase, or idea into a search engine
> search bar (I tend to use Google)****
> **4. **Select “Search”****
> **5. **View results, which 98% of the time will clear up confusion.*
> ***
> ** **
> If this process fails, then repeat using similar terms. If that *also*fails, then I usually head to StackOverflow/mailing lists.
> ****
> ** **
> My point was there was no attempt to solve this besides “tell me what I
> need to know” and “We should fix the docs so people who have never
> developed before can use them.”****
> ** **
> -Chad****
> ** **
> *From:* nodejs@googlegroups.com [mailto:nodejs@googlegroups.com] *On
> Behalf Of *SL
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 01, 2012 12:49 PM
> As you guessed, I'm developing on Windows. Thanks for the understanding!
> Yes a link would have avoided all confusion.****
> On 1 November 2012 17:42, Tim Caswell <t...@creationix.com> wrote:****
> I've been using since before it was popular. Back in the early days,
> the docs for node were full of references to linux man pages like
> this. My background was scripting languages and I had never done any
> C programming so I had no clue what readdir(3) meant. To open a file
> back then you had to manually bitwise OR the various unix flags
> together yourself. (Using "r", "w", "a", etc was an addition I made)
> Things now are much easier for people without a C background and there
> are many fewer parts left in the docs that assume knowledge of man
> pages.
> That said, I did eventually figure out it was referencing man pages.
> I was a linux user after all, I had just never used man to lookup C
> APis.
> How about we just link to one of the man mirrors in the API docs? I
> was an experienced linux user and I still didn't know what the docs
> were talking about, I can only imagine how confused windows users
> would be.****
> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 11:34 AM, Chad Engler <Chad.Eng...@patlive.com>
> wrote:
> > It wasn’t condescending; “topic(page#)” like “environ(7)” is a very
> common
> > way to express man pages, and if you aren’t aware of what the user
> > environment is you should probably do more research. Had you typed
> > “environ(7)” into google before getting butthurt at the docs, you
> probably
> > would have found out exactly what it was with no help from anyone. There
> is
> > no reason to repost the manual page since there is already a manual page
> for
> > it, the docs are fine the way they are; you just need to try to look a
> > little harder, or be grateful when people help.
> > -Chad
> > From: nodejs@googlegroups.com [mailto:nodejs@googlegroups.com] On
> Behalf Of
> > SL
> > Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 12:16 PM
> > To: nodejs@googlegroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [nodejs] Re: process.env - documentation?
> > Wow, thanks for the condescending and arrogant comment! I'm not
> suggesting
> > there should be a 'tutorial' about any of those things you mentioned.
> > However the docs at the moment are IMO a bit ambiguous about this point
> - it
> > just says "An object containing the user environment. See environ(7)." I
> > didn't realise immediately that this is talking about the OS environment
> > variables - I'm sure I'm not the only one.
> > On 1 November 2012 14:13, Matt <hel...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > If the docs covered every aspect of how programming networks, child
> > processes, systems and filesystems worked they would be huge.
> > There's a place for tutorials though - but it's not in the core docs
> IMHO.
> > If you don't know what an environment variable is then you have some
> basic
> > learning to do before diving straight into programming.
> > On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 7:28 PM, SL <bgs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Or we could make the docs a bit clearer...
> > On 31 October 2012 18:46, Jorge <
> jorge%jorgechamorro....@gtempaccount.com>
> > wrote:
> > On 31 oct, 17:26, Scott Elcomb <pse...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Jorge
> >> <jorge%jorgechamorro....@gtempaccount.com> wrote:
> >> > On Oct 31, 2:04 pm, Bgsosh <bgs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> Hi, I'm tring to understand the structure of the process.env object,
> >> >> but
> >> >> the online docs just say 'An object containing the user environment.
> >> >> See
> >> >> environ(7).'
> >> >> I can't find 'environ(7)' (whatever that is!). Is this documented
> >> >> somewhere?
> >> > Type this in the terminal:
> >> > $ man 7 environ
> >> That'd be tricky for Windows users to do if they're not running a
> >> *nix-like shell. (Cygwin comes to mind)
> >> I'd imagine the best bet for Windows users would be to search for "man
> >> 7 environ" on the web to find a copy of the relevant man page; there
> >> are a number of mirrors like the one Adam suggested.
Ill repeat myself for the third time now: If you see something and are
confused on what it means, Google is a great starting point. Had you
attempting to figure it out on your own, you would have seen the first
link, felt silly, and moved on.
-Chad
From: nodejs@googlegroups.com [mailto:nodejs@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of SL
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 1:01 PM
To: nodejs@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [nodejs] Re: process.env - documentation?
Ok, last post as the vibe here is a distinctly unfriendly... It's quite
simple: When I read 'see environ(7)' I assumed that was a reference to
another part of the node docs. When a reference is made to another
source, I'm used to seeing the source named. If it had said 'see:
man-pages environ(7)' there probably would have been no
misunderstanding.
On 1 November 2012 17:58, Chad Engler <Chad.Eng...@patlive.com> wrote:
I really think all of this could have been avoided, and new knowledge
consumed using this simple process that has guided me for years:
1. Encounter unknown term, phrase, or idea
2. Copy unknown term, phrase, or idea to clipboard
3. Paste unknown term, phrase, or idea into a search engine search
bar (I tend to use Google)
4. Select "Search"
5. View results, which 98% of the time will clear up confusion.
If this process fails, then repeat using similar terms. If that also
fails, then I usually head to StackOverflow/mailing lists.
My point was there was no attempt to solve this besides "tell me what I
need to know" and "We should fix the docs so people who have never
developed before can use them."
-Chad
From: nodejs@googlegroups.com [mailto:nodejs@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of SL
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 12:49 PM
To: nodejs@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [nodejs] Re: process.env - documentation?
As you guessed, I'm developing on Windows. Thanks for the
understanding! Yes a link would have avoided all confusion.
On 1 November 2012 17:42, Tim Caswell <t...@creationix.com> wrote:
I've been using since before it was popular. Back in the early days,
the docs for node were full of references to linux man pages like
this. My background was scripting languages and I had never done any
C programming so I had no clue what readdir(3) meant. To open a file
back then you had to manually bitwise OR the various unix flags
together yourself. (Using "r", "w", "a", etc was an addition I made)
Things now are much easier for people without a C background and there
are many fewer parts left in the docs that assume knowledge of man
pages.
That said, I did eventually figure out it was referencing man pages.
I was a linux user after all, I had just never used man to lookup C
APis.
How about we just link to one of the man mirrors in the API docs? I
was an experienced linux user and I still didn't know what the docs
were talking about, I can only imagine how confused windows users
would be.
On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 11:34 AM, Chad Engler <Chad.Eng...@patlive.com>
wrote:
> It wasn't condescending; "topic(page#)" like "environ(7)" is a very
common
> way to express man pages, and if you aren't aware of what the user
> environment is you should probably do more research. Had you typed
> "environ(7)" into google before getting butthurt at the docs, you
probably
> would have found out exactly what it was with no help from anyone.
There is
> no reason to repost the manual page since there is already a manual
page for
> it, the docs are fine the way they are; you just need to try to look a
> little harder, or be grateful when people help.
> -Chad
> From: nodejs@googlegroups.com [mailto:nodejs@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of
> SL
> Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 12:16 PM
> To: nodejs@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [nodejs] Re: process.env - documentation?
> Wow, thanks for the condescending and arrogant comment! I'm not
suggesting
> there should be a 'tutorial' about any of those things you mentioned.
> However the docs at the moment are IMO a bit ambiguous about this
point - it
> just says "An object containing the user environment. See environ(7)."
I
> didn't realise immediately that this is talking about the OS
environment
> variables - I'm sure I'm not the only one.
> On 1 November 2012 14:13, Matt <hel...@gmail.com> wrote:
> If the docs covered every aspect of how programming networks, child
> processes, systems and filesystems worked they would be huge.
> There's a place for tutorials though - but it's not in the core docs
IMHO.
> If you don't know what an environment variable is then you have some
basic
> learning to do before diving straight into programming.
> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 7:28 PM, SL <bgs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 31 oct, 17:26, Scott Elcomb <pse...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Jorge
>> <jorge%jorgechamorro....@gtempaccount.com
<mailto:jorge%25jorgechamorro....@gtempaccount.com> > wrote:
>> > On Oct 31, 2:04 pm, Bgsosh <bgs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> Hi, I'm tring to understand the structure of the process.env
object,
>> >> but
>> >> the online docs just say 'An object containing the user
environment.
>> >> See
>> >> environ(7).'
>> >> I can't find 'environ(7)' (whatever that is!). Is this documented
>> >> somewhere?
>> > Type this in the terminal:
>> > $ man 7 environ
>> That'd be tricky for Windows users to do if they're not running a
>> *nix-like shell. (Cygwin comes to mind)
>> I'd imagine the best bet for Windows users would be to search for
"man
>> 7 environ" on the web to find a copy of the relevant man page; there
>> are a number of mirrors like the one Adam suggested.
> Perhaps Windowzs users should better search for "environment
> variables" @ msdn or something, I guess, yeah.
> --
> Jorge.
> --
> Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/ > Posting guidelines:
> https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "nodejs" group.
> To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> nodejs+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> --
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> https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> nodejs+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> --
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> https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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> To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> nodejs+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> --
> Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/ > Posting guidelines:
> https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "nodejs" group.
> To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> nodejs+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> --
> Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/ > Posting guidelines:
> https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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Also, the unfriendliness stems from the fact that after answering your
question, you didn't like it. So we answered a different way, and you
called us condescending. Which means that normal conversation doesn't
work, so I have to try a different approach; actually being
condescending.
-Chad
From: nodejs@googlegroups.com [mailto:nodejs@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of SL
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 1:01 PM
To: nodejs@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [nodejs] Re: process.env - documentation?
Ok, last post as the vibe here is a distinctly unfriendly... It's quite
simple: When I read 'see environ(7)' I assumed that was a reference to
another part of the node docs. When a reference is made to another
source, I'm used to seeing the source named. If it had said 'see:
man-pages environ(7)' there probably would have been no
misunderstanding.
On 1 November 2012 17:58, Chad Engler <Chad.Eng...@patlive.com> wrote:
I really think all of this could have been avoided, and new knowledge
consumed using this simple process that has guided me for years:
1. Encounter unknown term, phrase, or idea
2. Copy unknown term, phrase, or idea to clipboard
3. Paste unknown term, phrase, or idea into a search engine search
bar (I tend to use Google)
4. Select "Search"
5. View results, which 98% of the time will clear up confusion.
If this process fails, then repeat using similar terms. If that also
fails, then I usually head to StackOverflow/mailing lists.
My point was there was no attempt to solve this besides "tell me what I
need to know" and "We should fix the docs so people who have never
developed before can use them."
-Chad
From: nodejs@googlegroups.com [mailto:nodejs@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of SL
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 12:49 PM
To: nodejs@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [nodejs] Re: process.env - documentation?
As you guessed, I'm developing on Windows. Thanks for the
understanding! Yes a link would have avoided all confusion.
On 1 November 2012 17:42, Tim Caswell <t...@creationix.com> wrote:
I've been using since before it was popular. Back in the early days,
the docs for node were full of references to linux man pages like
this. My background was scripting languages and I had never done any
C programming so I had no clue what readdir(3) meant. To open a file
back then you had to manually bitwise OR the various unix flags
together yourself. (Using "r", "w", "a", etc was an addition I made)
Things now are much easier for people without a C background and there
are many fewer parts left in the docs that assume knowledge of man
pages.
That said, I did eventually figure out it was referencing man pages.
I was a linux user after all, I had just never used man to lookup C
APis.
How about we just link to one of the man mirrors in the API docs? I
was an experienced linux user and I still didn't know what the docs
were talking about, I can only imagine how confused windows users
would be.
On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 11:34 AM, Chad Engler <Chad.Eng...@patlive.com>
wrote:
> It wasn't condescending; "topic(page#)" like "environ(7)" is a very
common
> way to express man pages, and if you aren't aware of what the user
> environment is you should probably do more research. Had you typed
> "environ(7)" into google before getting butthurt at the docs, you
probably
> would have found out exactly what it was with no help from anyone.
There is
> no reason to repost the manual page since there is already a manual
page for
> it, the docs are fine the way they are; you just need to try to look a
> little harder, or be grateful when people help.
> -Chad
> From: nodejs@googlegroups.com [mailto:nodejs@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of
> SL
> Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 12:16 PM
> To: nodejs@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [nodejs] Re: process.env - documentation?
> Wow, thanks for the condescending and arrogant comment! I'm not
suggesting
> there should be a 'tutorial' about any of those things you mentioned.
> However the docs at the moment are IMO a bit ambiguous about this
point - it
> just says "An object containing the user environment. See environ(7)."
I
> didn't realise immediately that this is talking about the OS
environment
> variables - I'm sure I'm not the only one.
> On 1 November 2012 14:13, Matt <hel...@gmail.com> wrote:
> If the docs covered every aspect of how programming networks, child
> processes, systems and filesystems worked they would be huge.
> There's a place for tutorials though - but it's not in the core docs
IMHO.
> If you don't know what an environment variable is then you have some
basic
> learning to do before diving straight into programming.
> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 7:28 PM, SL <bgs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 31 oct, 17:26, Scott Elcomb <pse...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Jorge
>> <jorge%jorgechamorro....@gtempaccount.com
<mailto:jorge%25jorgechamorro....@gtempaccount.com> > wrote:
>> > On Oct 31, 2:04 pm, Bgsosh <bgs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> Hi, I'm tring to understand the structure of the process.env
object,
>> >> but
>> >> the online docs just say 'An object containing the user
environment.
>> >> See
>> >> environ(7).'
>> >> I can't find 'environ(7)' (whatever that is!). Is this documented
>> >> somewhere?
>> > Type this in the terminal:
>> > $ man 7 environ
>> That'd be tricky for Windows users to do if they're not running a
>> *nix-like shell. (Cygwin comes to mind)
>> I'd imagine the best bet for Windows users would be to search for
"man
>> 7 environ" on the web to find a copy of the relevant man page; there
>> are a number of mirrors like the one Adam suggested.
> Perhaps Windowzs users should better search for "environment
> variables" @ msdn or something, I guess, yeah.
> --
> Jorge.
> --
> Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/ > Posting guidelines:
> https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "nodejs" group.
> To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> nodejs+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
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-- Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/ Posting guidelines:
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For more options, visit this group at
...
I think the argument: "If you google'ed you'd find out" is invalid. The
same argument could be used for almost every question in this mailing list.
To keep away from over-documenting I agree with Tim, at least there
should be a link to an online man page.
But I also find the "user variables" term misleading. I dont know whats
the official term, but i always refer to them as "environmental variables".
> Ill repeat myself for the third time now: If you see something and are
> confused on what it means, Google is a great starting point. Had you
> attempting to figure it out on your own, you would have seen the first
> link, felt silly, and moved on.
> Ok, last post as the vibe here is a distinctly unfriendly... It's quite
> simple: When I read 'see environ(7)' I assumed that was a reference to
> another part of the node docs. When a reference is made to another
> source, I'm used to seeing the source named. If it had said 'see:
> man-pages environ(7)' there probably would have been no misunderstanding.
> On 1 November 2012 17:58, Chad Engler <Chad.Eng...@patlive.com
> <mailto:Chad.Eng...@patlive.com>> wrote:
> I really think all of this could have been avoided, and new knowledge
> consumed using this simple process that has guided me for years:
> 1. Encounter unknown term, phrase, or idea
> 2. Copy unknown term, phrase, or idea to clipboard
> 3. Paste unknown term, phrase, or idea into a search engine search
> bar (I tend to use Google)
> 4. Select “Search”
> 5. View results, which 98% of the time will clear up confusion.
> If this process fails, then repeat using similar terms. If that /also/
> fails, then I usually head to StackOverflow/mailing lists.
> My point was there was no attempt to solve this besides “tell me what I
> need to know” and “We should fix the docs so people who have never
> developed before can use them.”
> -Chad
> *From:*nodejs@googlegroups.com <mailto:nodejs@googlegroups.com>
> [mailto:nodejs@googlegroups.com <mailto:nodejs@googlegroups.com>] *On
> Behalf Of *SL
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 01, 2012 12:49 PM
> As you guessed, I'm developing on Windows. Thanks for the
> understanding! Yes a link would have avoided all confusion.
> On 1 November 2012 17:42, Tim Caswell <t...@creationix.com
> <mailto:t...@creationix.com>> wrote:
> I've been using since before it was popular. Back in the early days,
> the docs for node were full of references to linux man pages like
> this. My background was scripting languages and I had never done any
> C programming so I had no clue what readdir(3) meant. To open a file
> back then you had to manually bitwise OR the various unix flags
> together yourself. (Using "r", "w", "a", etc was an addition I made)
> Things now are much easier for people without a C background and there
> are many fewer parts left in the docs that assume knowledge of man
> pages.
> That said, I did eventually figure out it was referencing man pages.
> I was a linux user after all, I had just never used man to lookup C
> APis.
> How about we just link to one of the man mirrors in the API docs? I
> was an experienced linux user and I still didn't know what the docs
> were talking about, I can only imagine how confused windows users
> would be.
> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 11:34 AM, Chad Engler <Chad.Eng...@patlive.com
> <mailto:Chad.Eng...@patlive.com>> wrote:
>> It wasn’t condescending; “topic(page#)” like “environ(7)” is a very common
>> way to express man pages, and if you aren’t aware of what the user
>> environment is you should probably do more research. Had you typed
>> “environ(7)” into google before getting butthurt at the docs, you probably
>> would have found out exactly what it was with no help from anyone.
> There is
>> no reason to repost the manual page since there is already a manual
> page for
>> it, the docs are fine the way they are; you just need to try to look a
>> little harder, or be grateful when people help.
>> -Chad
>> From: nodejs@googlegroups.com <mailto:nodejs@googlegroups.com>
> [mailto:nodejs@googlegroups.com <mailto:nodejs@googlegroups.com>] On
> Behalf Of
>> SL
>> Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 12:16 PM
>> To: nodejs@googlegroups.com <mailto:nodejs@googlegroups.com>
>> Subject: Re: [nodejs] Re: process.env - documentation?
>> Wow, thanks for the condescending and arrogant comment! I'm not
> suggesting
>> there should be a 'tutorial' about any of those things you mentioned.
>> However the docs at the moment are IMO a bit ambiguous about this
> point - it
>> just says "An object containing the user environment. See environ(7)." I
>> didn't realise immediately that this is talking about the OS environment
>> variables - I'm sure I'm not the only one.
>> On 1 November 2012 14:13, Matt <hel...@gmail.com
> <mailto:hel...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> If the docs covered every aspect of how programming networks, child
>> processes, systems and filesystems worked they would be huge.
>> There's a place for tutorials though - but it's not in the core docs IMHO.
>> If you don't know what an environment variable is then you have some basic
>> learning to do before diving straight into programming.
>> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 7:28 PM, SL <bgs...@gmail.com
> <mailto:bgs...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> Or we could make the docs a bit clearer...
>> On 31 October 2012 18:46, Jorge
> <jorge%jorgechamorro....@gtempaccount.com
> <mailto:jorge%25jorgechamorro....@gtempaccount.com>>
>> wrote:
>> On 31 oct, 17:26, Scott Elcomb <pse...@gmail.com
> <mailto:pse...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Jorge
>>> <jorge%jorgechamorro....@gtempaccount.com
> <mailto:jorge%25jorgechamorro....@gtempaccount.com>> wrote:
>>> > On Oct 31, 2:04 pm, Bgsosh <bgs...@gmail.com
> <mailto:bgs...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> >> Hi, I'm tring to understand the structure of the process.env object,
>>> >> but
>>> >> the online docs just say 'An object containing the user environment.
>>> >> See
>>> >> environ(7).'
>>> >> I can't find 'environ(7)' (whatever that is!). Is this documented
>>> >> somewhere?
>>> > Type this in the terminal:
>>> > $ man 7 environ
>>> That'd be tricky for Windows users to do if they're not running a
>>> *nix-like shell. (Cygwin comes to mind)
>>> I'd imagine the best bet for Windows users would be to search for "man
>>> 7 environ" on the web to find a copy of the relevant man page; there
>>> are a number of mirrors like the one Adam suggested.
>> Perhaps Windowzs users should better search for "environment
>> variables" @ msdn or something, I guess, yeah.
>> --
>> Jorge.
>> --
>> Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/ >> Posting guidelines:
>> https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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> <mailto:nodejs@googlegroups.com>
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>> --
>> Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/ >> Posting guidelines:
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> <mailto:nodejs@googlegroups.com>
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>> --
>> Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/ >> Posting guidelines:
>> https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups "nodejs" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:nodejs@googlegroups.com>
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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>> For more options, visit this group at
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>> --
>> Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/ >> Posting guidelines:
>> https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>> To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:nodejs@googlegroups.com>
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On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 12:04 PM, Chad Engler <Chad.Eng...@patlive.com> wrote:
> Also, the unfriendliness stems from the fact that after answering your
> question, you didn’t like it. So we answered a different way, and you called
> us condescending. Which means that normal conversation doesn’t work, so I
> have to try a different approach; actually being condescending.
Chad, please be nicer. Yes, he could have easily pasted the unknown
term into google. That's exactly what I did when I had the same
problem years ago. That doesn't change the fact that a part of the
node docs are hard to understand to part of our audience. We should
thank the OP for pointing this out and helping us make node better for
others in the future.
> Ok, last post as the vibe here is a distinctly unfriendly... It's quite
> simple: When I read 'see environ(7)' I assumed that was a reference to
> another part of the node docs. When a reference is made to another source,
> I'm used to seeing the source named. If it had said 'see: man-pages
> environ(7)' there probably would have been no misunderstanding.
> On 1 November 2012 17:58, Chad Engler <Chad.Eng...@patlive.com> wrote:
> I really think all of this could have been avoided, and new knowledge
> consumed using this simple process that has guided me for years:
> 1. Encounter unknown term, phrase, or idea
> 2. Copy unknown term, phrase, or idea to clipboard
> 3. Paste unknown term, phrase, or idea into a search engine search bar
> (I tend to use Google)
> 4. Select “Search”
> 5. View results, which 98% of the time will clear up confusion.
> If this process fails, then repeat using similar terms. If that also fails,
> then I usually head to StackOverflow/mailing lists.
> My point was there was no attempt to solve this besides “tell me what I need
> to know” and “We should fix the docs so people who have never developed
> before can use them.”
> -Chad
> From: nodejs@googlegroups.com [mailto:nodejs@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
> SL
> Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 12:49 PM
> As you guessed, I'm developing on Windows. Thanks for the understanding!
> Yes a link would have avoided all confusion.
> On 1 November 2012 17:42, Tim Caswell <t...@creationix.com> wrote:
> I've been using since before it was popular. Back in the early days,
> the docs for node were full of references to linux man pages like
> this. My background was scripting languages and I had never done any
> C programming so I had no clue what readdir(3) meant. To open a file
> back then you had to manually bitwise OR the various unix flags
> together yourself. (Using "r", "w", "a", etc was an addition I made)
> Things now are much easier for people without a C background and there
> are many fewer parts left in the docs that assume knowledge of man
> pages.
> That said, I did eventually figure out it was referencing man pages.
> I was a linux user after all, I had just never used man to lookup C
> APis.
> How about we just link to one of the man mirrors in the API docs? I
> was an experienced linux user and I still didn't know what the docs
> were talking about, I can only imagine how confused windows users
> would be.
> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 11:34 AM, Chad Engler <Chad.Eng...@patlive.com>
> wrote:
>> It wasn’t condescending; “topic(page#)” like “environ(7)” is a very common
>> way to express man pages, and if you aren’t aware of what the user
>> environment is you should probably do more research. Had you typed
>> “environ(7)” into google before getting butthurt at the docs, you probably
>> would have found out exactly what it was with no help from anyone. There
>> is
>> no reason to repost the manual page since there is already a manual page
>> for
>> it, the docs are fine the way they are; you just need to try to look a
>> little harder, or be grateful when people help.
>> -Chad
>> From: nodejs@googlegroups.com [mailto:nodejs@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
>> Of
>> SL
>> Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 12:16 PM
>> To: nodejs@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [nodejs] Re: process.env - documentation?
>> Wow, thanks for the condescending and arrogant comment! I'm not
>> suggesting
>> there should be a 'tutorial' about any of those things you mentioned.
>> However the docs at the moment are IMO a bit ambiguous about this point -
>> it
>> just says "An object containing the user environment. See environ(7)." I
>> didn't realise immediately that this is talking about the OS environment
>> variables - I'm sure I'm not the only one.
>> On 1 November 2012 14:13, Matt <hel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> If the docs covered every aspect of how programming networks, child
>> processes, systems and filesystems worked they would be huge.
>> There's a place for tutorials though - but it's not in the core docs IMHO.
>> If you don't know what an environment variable is then you have some basic
>> learning to do before diving straight into programming.
>> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 7:28 PM, SL <bgs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Or we could make the docs a bit clearer...
>> On 31 October 2012 18:46, Jorge <jorge%jorgechamorro....@gtempaccount.com>
>> wrote:
>> On 31 oct, 17:26, Scott Elcomb <pse...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Jorge
>>> <jorge%jorgechamorro....@gtempaccount.com> wrote:
>>> > On Oct 31, 2:04 pm, Bgsosh <bgs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> Hi, I'm tring to understand the structure of the process.env object,
>>> >> but
>>> >> the online docs just say 'An object containing the user environment.
>>> >> See
>>> >> environ(7).'
>>> >> I can't find 'environ(7)' (whatever that is!). Is this documented
>>> >> somewhere?
>>> > Type this in the terminal:
>>> > $ man 7 environ
>>> That'd be tricky for Windows users to do if they're not running a
>>> *nix-like shell. (Cygwin comes to mind)
>>> I'd imagine the best bet for Windows users would be to search for "man
>>> 7 environ" on the web to find a copy of the relevant man page; there
>>> are a number of mirrors like the one Adam suggested.
People not Google'ing before asking the mailing list is exactly why I
have 500 messages a day from this list, and can barely find interesting
topics; and I am really tired of getting "how does one node" and "what
is javascript" questions here.
I agree that a link on the docs is useful, but I also think searching is
just as easy.
"environment variables" can refer to "user variables" or "system
variables". The "environment variables" can also be called the "user
environment" as the node.js docs do. It is a little misleading due to
the distinction on windows systems.
-----Original Message-----
From: nodejs@googlegroups.com [mailto:nodejs@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Dan Milon
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 1:19 PM
To: nodejs@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [nodejs] Re: process.env - documentation?
I totally agree with Tim & SL here.
I think the argument: "If you google'ed you'd find out" is invalid. The
same argument could be used for almost every question in this mailing
list.
To keep away from over-documenting I agree with Tim, at least there
should be a link to an online man page.
But I also find the "user variables" term misleading. I dont know whats
the official term, but i always refer to them as "environmental
variables".
danmilon.
On 11/01/2012 07:02 PM, Chad Engler wrote:
> Ill repeat myself for the third time now: If you see something and are
> confused on what it means, Google is a great starting point. Had you > attempting to figure it out on your own, you would have seen the first
> Ok, last post as the vibe here is a distinctly unfriendly... It's > quite
> simple: When I read 'see environ(7)' I assumed that was a reference to
> another part of the node docs. When a reference is made to another > source, I'm used to seeing the source named. If it had said 'see:
> man-pages environ(7)' there probably would have been no
misunderstanding.
> On 1 November 2012 17:58, Chad Engler <Chad.Eng...@patlive.com > <mailto:Chad.Eng...@patlive.com>> wrote:
> I really think all of this could have been avoided, and new knowledge > consumed using this simple process that has guided me for years:
> 1. Encounter unknown term, phrase, or idea
> 2. Copy unknown term, phrase, or idea to clipboard
> 3. Paste unknown term, phrase, or idea into a search engine
search
> bar (I tend to use Google)
> 4. Select "Search"
> 5. View results, which 98% of the time will clear up confusion.
> If this process fails, then repeat using similar terms. If that /also/
> fails, then I usually head to StackOverflow/mailing lists.
> My point was there was no attempt to solve this besides "tell me what > I need to know" and "We should fix the docs so people who have never > developed before can use them."
> -Chad
> *From:*nodejs@googlegroups.com <mailto:nodejs@googlegroups.com> > [mailto:nodejs@googlegroups.com <mailto:nodejs@googlegroups.com>] *On > Behalf Of *SL
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 01, 2012 12:49 PM
> As you guessed, I'm developing on Windows. Thanks for the > understanding! Yes a link would have avoided all confusion.
> On 1 November 2012 17:42, Tim Caswell <t...@creationix.com > <mailto:t...@creationix.com>> wrote:
> I've been using since before it was popular. Back in the early days, > the docs for node were full of references to linux man pages like > this. My background was scripting languages and I had never done any
> C programming so I had no clue what readdir(3) meant. To open a file
> back then you had to manually bitwise OR the various unix flags > together yourself. (Using "r", "w", "a", etc was an addition I made)
> Things now are much easier for people without a C background and there
> are many fewer parts left in the docs that assume knowledge of man > pages.
> That said, I did eventually figure out it was referencing man pages.
> I was a linux user after all, I had just never used man to lookup C > APis.
> How about we just link to one of the man mirrors in the API docs? I > was an experienced linux user and I still didn't know what the docs > were talking about, I can only imagine how confused windows users > would be.
> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 11:34 AM, Chad Engler <Chad.Eng...@patlive.com > <mailto:Chad.Eng...@patlive.com>> wrote:
>> It wasn't condescending; "topic(page#)" like "environ(7)" is a very >> common way to express man pages, and if you aren't aware of what the >> user environment is you should probably do more research. Had you >> typed "environ(7)" into google before getting butthurt at the docs, >> you probably would have found out exactly what it was with no help
from anyone.
> There is
>> no reason to repost the manual page since there is already a manual
> page for
>> it, the docs are fine the way they are; you just need to try to look >> a little harder, or be grateful when people help.
>> -Chad
>> From: nodejs@googlegroups.com <mailto:nodejs@googlegroups.com>
> [mailto:nodejs@googlegroups.com <mailto:nodejs@googlegroups.com>] On > Behalf Of
>> SL
>> Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 12:16 PM
>> To: nodejs@googlegroups.com <mailto:nodejs@googlegroups.com>
>> Subject: Re: [nodejs] Re: process.env - documentation?
>> Wow, thanks for the condescending and arrogant comment! I'm not
> suggesting
>> there should be a 'tutorial' about any of those things you mentioned.
>> However the docs at the moment are IMO a bit ambiguous about this
> point - it
>> just says "An object containing the user environment. See >> environ(7)." I didn't realise immediately that this is talking about
>> the OS environment variables - I'm sure I'm not the only one.
>> On 1 November 2012 14:13, Matt <hel...@gmail.com
> <mailto:hel...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> If the docs covered every aspect of how programming networks, child >> processes, systems and filesystems worked they would be huge.
>> There's a place for tutorials though - but it's not in the core docs
IMHO.
>> If you don't know what an environment variable is then you have some >> basic learning to do before diving straight into programming.
>> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 7:28 PM, SL <bgs...@gmail.com
> <mailto:bgs...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> Or we could make the docs a bit clearer...
>> On 31 October 2012 18:46, Jorge
> <jorge%jorgechamorro....@gtempaccount.com
> <mailto:jorge%25jorgechamorro....@gtempaccount.com>>
>> wrote:
>> On 31 oct, 17:26, Scott Elcomb <pse...@gmail.com
> <mailto:pse...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Jorge
>>> <jorge%jorgechamorro....@gtempaccount.com
> <mailto:jorge%25jorgechamorro....@gtempaccount.com>> wrote:
>>> > On Oct 31, 2:04 pm, Bgsosh <bgs...@gmail.com
> <mailto:bgs...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> >> Hi, I'm tring to understand the structure of the process.env >>> >> object, but the online docs just say 'An object containing the >>> >> user environment.
>>> >> See
>>> >> environ(7).'
>>> >> I can't find 'environ(7)' (whatever that is!). Is this >>> >> documented somewhere?
>>> > Type this in the terminal:
>>> > $ man 7 environ
>>> That'd be tricky for Windows users to do if they're not running a >>> *nix-like shell. (Cygwin comes to mind)
>>> I'd imagine the best bet for Windows users would be to search for >>> "man
>>> 7 environ" on the web to find a copy of the relevant man page; there
>>> are a number of mirrors like the one Adam suggested.
>> Perhaps Windowzs users should better search for "environment >> variables" @ msdn or something, I guess, yeah.
>> --
>> Jorge.
>> --
>> Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/ >> Posting guidelines:
>> https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "nodejs" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:nodejs@googlegroups.com>
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> nodejs+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:nodejs%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
>> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=en?hl=en
>> --
>> Job Board: http://jobs.nodejs.org/ >> Posting guidelines:
>> https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "nodejs" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to nodejs@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:nodejs@googlegroups.com>
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> nodejs+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:nodejs%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
>> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=en?hl=en
