1.8 bugs

[Brendon Bussy]

hi

I'm new to Nodal, but have spent some time trying out the Windows demo
distribution.

Firstly I would like to say that I'm enjoying this application - with
a few issues ironed out, it will no doubt become a staple!

I've picked up a few issues and have a few suggestions:

Bugs
- [File->page] setup crashes nodal
- synthesiser mentioned in the notes (View-show synthesiser) is
missing
- Midi note values are +1 octave
e.g. Pitch triggers stated value +1 octave. So if trigger is set to
D3, it actually triggers with D4.
Same for midi notes internally and sent out to another application via
midiyoke.
I've confirmed this behaviour by using midiox's output monitor to
monitor input and output from Nodal.

Suggestions
Inspector:
- Would be great if the document tab could be more differentiated from
the other tabs - all other tabs are note/voice specific, but this tab
is universal. Confusing for first time user.
- Soundcard: it would be great to be able to specify driver/card
- Grid: it would be nice to be able to change grid resolution and
structure (e.g. non 4x4)

My setup:
Lenovo sl500
XP service pack3
Intel core 2 duo 1.8ghz
2 gig ram

brendon

[markb10101]

Hi Brandon/All,

I also get +1 octave at output (monitoring using midi ox). I am runnig
Windows 7 64bit.

I don't get a crash on 'File/Page Setup' - this is a page print setup
dialog which seems a little out of place though.

I second the request for non-standard grids - specifically, I'd like
to see non-rectangular grid patterns. I have experimented with
hexagonal nodal structures - and other tessalating shapes, but it is
near impossible to get the edge lengths to be equal. (Brandon - you
may not be aware that you can change the 'Divisions per principal'
option on the 'Network' tab to enable 3/4 time etc)

Some UI additions I'd like to see:

- mouse wheel to zoom grid in and out.

- i would prefer nodes NOT to increase in size as I zoom into the
grid. as it is, it is very difficult to edit a complex sequence when
zoomed in.

- scroll grid around by clicking and dragging (in a blank area or with
a modifier key).

- re-size selection, rotate selection, mirror selection, snap
selection to grid.

- selecting a node and edge together highlights the relevant sections
in the inspector.

- selecting a path type as the default option - (eg 'direct' - so that
every subsequent connection is 'direct').

- coloured nodes (set by user) would make life a LOT easier

- ability to change 'Show Node Counters' to display other useful data,
such as 'Last note sent by Node'

- ability to display probabilities on the edges coming from 'random'
nodes.

At the risk of hijacking Brandon's email - I'll stop there! I don't
want to sound negative - I'm having a lot of fun with Nodal - and some
of the limitations lead to unexpected inventions in the work-around
that go on to be an integral part of the composition.

I hope you guys continue to develop it further. Have you considered
setting up a forum of some sort? Email lists are fine for support
queries - but Nodal users would benefit from a place to find FAQs,
Tips, development logs, maybe even a repository for saves. Just a
thought.

Cheers,

Mark

[Brendon Bussy]

hi Mark

Thanks for bringing my attention to 'divisions per principal'- somehow
I'd missed this.

Be interesting to know if any other windows users have the page setup
problem.

And thanks for confirming the +1octave issue. Thought at first it was
just something I was doing wrong. Serious issue, hope its sorted out
soon. Only workaround at the moment is I guess to run midiox or
similar inbetween nodal and the slave app to adjust note values.

I wonder if something similar is happening with controller values?

brendon

On Oct 14, 1:08 am, markb10101 <mark.birch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Brandon/All,
>
> I also get +1 octave at output (monitoring using midi ox). I am runnig
> Windows 7 64bit.
>
> I don't get a crash on 'File/Page Setup' - this is a page print setup
> dialog which seems a little out of place though.
>

[Jon McCormack]

Hi,
We don't seem to have this problem with +1 with pitch triggering on
our test setup. Can you provide more information on your system and
its configuration?
The "View->Show Synthesiser" refers to the Mac version. On windows you
can still use the default windows synth, but it can't be edited from
within Nodal, you need to edit it via it's own interface.
Regards,

Jon

[Brendon Bussy]

hi

Okay, no response from developers to midi issue, looks like windows
users might have to wait.... pity.

brendon

On Oct 14, 7:15 am, Brendon Bussy <brendonbu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> hi Mark

[markb10101]

Brendon - Jon was addressing the MIDI +1 octave issue above, asking
for more info'.

Jon, I'm running Nodal in Windows 7 64bit. Using MIDI-OX (midi stream
monitoring software) I can see that a C3 trigger in Nodal is indeed
appearing as C4 (ie MIDI note number 60 rather than 48).

MIDI note number 0 is defined as C0 in some software - whilst other
software defines note number 0 as C-1. The latter is correct.

For me, this isn't a problem. My main DAW is Ableton Live and it is
simple to transpose down by an octave before the MIDI gets to a VSTi.

Mark

[Brendon Bussy]

Moderation delay is probably because I'm in South Africa (12hr time
difference)

b

[NTO]

On Oct 25, 7:38 am, markb10101 <mark.birch...@gmail.com> wrote:
[snip]

>
> MIDI note number 0 is defined as C0 in some software - whilst other
> software defines note number 0 as C-1. The latter is correct.
>

[snip]
'correct' may not be the *best* word
There's always been an issue w/midi note numbers as they aren't based
on the modern piano...

There is an discussion/convertor at:
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-notenames.htm
Which has this statement:
Octave notation is given here in the international standard ISO
system, formerly known as
the ASA (Acoustical Society of America) or ANSI system. In this
system, middle C (MIDI
note number 60) is C4;

For the MidiOx standard,
Please refer to this page:
http://www.music.vt.edu/musicdictionary/appendix/octaveregisters/octaveregisters.html

For this info:
The standard merely designates that Middle C is note number 60.
One version of the MIDI system uses C3 to designate Middle C ... That
means that the octave designation for MIDI note "0" would be "-2" or
notated as C-2.
Another version of the MIDI system uses the lowest note available to
the MIDI system (MIDI note 1, 8.176 Hz) to designate Octave "0" with
the notation of C0.

The FIRST version is the basis for many DAWs (I use mainly Sonar & FL
Studio).
The SECOND version is the default for MidiOx. You can set it as you
wish with menu>Options>General>Middle C Octave. It has the range of 1
to 7, and the monitor display can show negative numbers. If you
create/save an "<name>.ini" file for your MidiOx session, you set it
as desired with 'Octave=x', where x is the value you wish to use.

Best wishes ;-)

[Brendon Bussy]

Hi

Just double checked and can confirm nodal is outputting +1octave.

The test:
- I networked Nodal with midiox on midiyoke4. Midiox's output monitor
showed C4 where C3 was the set pitch in Nodal.
- I networked Nodal with Audiomulch on midiyoke4. I used the input to
play a softsynth and it played C4 where C3 was the set pitch in Nodal.

I did the same tests using loopbe as the network driver with the same
results.

I made a few screenshots of my setup which I can send you but not sure
how to post here.

Not sure what other configuration info would be useful. My system
setup is at page bottom.

Thank you for the response to my synthesiser question.

Did your windows test setup also crash with [File->page]?

My setup:
Lenovo sl500
XP service pack3
Intel core 2 duo 1.8ghz
2 gig ram

Brendon

On Oct 25, 3:22 am, Jon McCormack

[Brendon Bussy]

Hi Jon

I've already responded - responses don't appear immediately
(moderation queue). So you'll probably see this one after the one I'm
referring to :)

Not so simple to transpose down in Audiomulch - will need to run
midiox in between.

b

On Oct 25, 1:38 pm, markb10101 <mark.birch...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Brendon Bussy]

Okay

So looks like a standards conflict.

So I tested my midi controller keyboard as input and it also disagreed
with midiox. So midiox seems to be the odd one out.

So looks like Nodal output is fine?

brendon

On Oct 25, 6:58 pm, NTO <phb1phb1p...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 25, 7:38 am, markb10101 <mark.birch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> [snip]
>
> > MIDI note number 0 is defined as C0 in some software - whilst other
> > software defines note number 0 as C-1. The latter is correct.
>
> [snip]
> 'correct' may not be the *best* word
> There's always been an issue w/midi note numbers as they aren't based
> on the modern piano...
>
> There is an discussion/convertor at:http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-notenames.htm
> Which has this statement:
> Octave notation is given here in the international standard ISO
> system, formerly known as
> the ASA (Acoustical Society of America) or ANSI system. In this
> system, middle C (MIDI
> note number 60) is C4;
>
> For the MidiOx standard,

> Please refer to this page:http://www.music.vt.edu/musicdictionary/appendix/octaveregisters/octa...

[markb10101]

> So looks like a standards conflict.

Agreed, Brendon.

> > 'correct' may not be the *best* word
> > There's always been an issue w/midi note numbers as they aren't based
> > on the modern piano...

I stand corrected. Thanks for the interesting links, NTO.

Mark

[Brendon Bussy]

Yes thanks for the info NTO - there's always a twist and nice to know
that Nodal is doing what the label says as far as midi is concerned :)

Are any other windows users experiencing a crash with: [File->page
setup]?

brendon

[Mark Birchall]

Hi Brendon - I don't get a crash when selecting Page Setup, but I
don't have a printer installed at all. Are you able to use Page Setup
okay in other programs? Why do you want to print straight from Nodal?

Mark

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[Brendon Bussy]

Hi Mark

Page setup works in other programs. I'm not sure if I'll need to print
straight from Nodal, but clicking this option in the file drop down
menu crashes nodal.

brendon

[NTO]

Just to *maybe* add *some* detail...
I am running on XP/SP3 w/all automatic updates in place. There is no
printer defined, and the print spooler service is not running.
Page setup causes an application termination and the 'error reporting
process' executing. I've never known WHERE those error reports are
going, but I demonstrated this item on 27 Oct 2011 at 11:00 EDT. ;-)

[Brendon Bussy]

I'm on XP SP3 and set up for printing over a network. Page setup
doesn't cause a crash on other apps.

If I select 'print' there is no crash - on Nodal or other apps.