Nitrogen ++ ChicagoBoss , ChicagoBoss ++ Nitrogen

[Radek Jedrasiak]

Hi all,

why not combine the dev efforts for Nitrogen and ChicagoBoss and blend them into a yet better alternative for web development in erlang?

(i know, i know that's how a) flaming wars start b) usually yet another halfready framework forks ... still this is erlang world with wiser ppl involved;)

I'm not sure how active the dev. of Nitrogen really is but some of its concepts (comet-process-pools, erlang => html mapping, the custom-controls/actions system f.e.) would be definitively great to see reused. On the other hand storage and template handling plus the funky reactive processes, well that's what makes ChicagoBoss shine imho.

(both have tons of other important features ofc.)

But I want it all in one framework! /sniff ;)

Was this discussed already? Opinions? Alternatives?  Any roadmaps?

Thanks in advance

cheers

Radek

[Jesse Gumm]

Hi Radek,

I think you present some interesting ideas here.

ChicagoBoss has some really great things going for it (BossDB stuff
intrigues me much), and I've been giving some (admittedly very
passive) consideration into ChicagoBoss integration.

The first step to uniting the two is with getting CB to use
SimpleBridge as a dependency, and that's pretty much ready. It still
need a few tweaks.

I'm honestly not sure what it would take to go about combining the
two, but I suspect the easier thing would be to copy some of
nitrogen's core functionality like tuple element rendering system and
possibly the comet pool stuff (though I'm not sure how CB does its
comet stuff).

But there's nothing "flamey" about your post, it's an honest and solid
recommendation. I don't know how conducive Evan would be to importing
such features (especially if they conflict with his roadmap), but a
separate hybrid project might be an interesting experiment if someone
wants to proof-of-concept it some :)

Thanks!

-Jesse

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--
Jesse Gumm
Owner, Sigma Star Systems
414.940.4866 || sigma-star.com || @jessegumm

[OvermindDL1]

I use Nitrogen (embedded) and I love it. I have not used ChicagoBoss,
and from I know of its DB wrappers I doubt I would use them (it did
not have a Riak interface last I saw). What else about ChicagoBoss
would people like to see in Nitrogen and how would in benefit?

[Steffen Panning]

Hi,

> I use Nitrogen (embedded) and I love it.  I have not used ChicagoBoss,
> and from I know of its DB wrappers I doubt I would use them

Same here. I had some very disappointing experiences with DB wrappers
and tend to avoid them now.

Steffen

[Jesse Gumm]

Well, there's no real need to *merge* BossDB into Nitrogen, as it's a
standalone app that - if you wanted to - you could just link it as a
rebar dependency easily enough.

But I understand the aversions to generalized DB abstraction layers -
there's only so much you can abstract away. But it's definitely a
noble cause, and I admit the idea of the post and pre-hooks in BossDB
intrigue me.

Just for fun, I should build something in ChicagoBoss just to get the
feel for it.

-Jesse

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[Jesse Gumm]

Oh, and Overmind, Riak support is currently experimental in BossDB, so
maybe it's worth another look. At least, that is, according to it's
Readme in github.

-Jesse

[Florent Gallaire]

Cross-posted on the Chicago Boss thread :

I played with Nitrogen this last days. It's an incredible, awesome work.
As said before, it's a very different of CB. It's not a clean MVC
framework but all about magical autogeneration of JS (Ajax and Comet).
For some people, as me, who absolutly doesn't want write JS, it's a must have !

Nitrogen hasn't routing system nor ORM so it could be really improved
by an integration in CB : routing system + BossDB and specialy the
asynchronous (as Nitrogen) BossNews.

The only integration to do is to switch from the Nitrogen template
language to erlydtl.

This could be a very interesting option to have the Nitrogen power
inside a clean CB integration (instead of a Nitrogen + webmachine +
BossDB + erlydtl hack).

Best regards

Florent

FLOSS Engineer & Lawyer

[Jesse Gumm]

Thanks Florent!

One of these days, I'll spend a little time playing with CB to get a good feel for it. From reading about it and seeing the split off of BossNews and BossDB stuff (which are fully cool), I know that integration would definitely be easier.

It definitely does seen like the two solve different problems, and that lends itself well to cross-integration.

--
Jesse Gumm
Owner, Sigma Star Systems
414.940.4866 || sigma-star.com || @jessegumm

[Marc Worrell]

Hi Jesse,

Integrating Nitrogen with ErlyDTL was one of the goals of Zotonic.

You might want to have a look how we redid the actions, validations etc to work nice with the template language.

- Marc

[Jesse Gumm]

I'll definitely have a look at that, thanks Marc.

-Jesse

[Karim Dahmani]

Has there been any progress with this?

[Jesse Gumm]

Not yet, but it's something I've been thinking about a lately, and something I mentioned in passing to Evan a few months ago (though I know he's stepped aside from CB development)

As of now, I know the next priority for CB is getting to version 1.0, and the next priority for Nitrogen is deploying version 2.3 using integration with the latest experimental simple bridge enabling websockets, among other smaller things.

--
Jesse Gumm
Owner, Sigma Star Systems
414.940.4866 || sigma-star.com || @jessegumm

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