A certain Fin, of soc.culture.irish "fame", writes :
>Its hardly the point though is it not? it just all seems extremely >hypocritical to me that's all!
It's not hypocritical to agree with some wars, but not others. There are some wars you'll think are right, and some you'll think are wrong.
That's not to say that the republican movement aren't a bunch of extremely hypocritical people who use politics to cover up their disregard for civilians and their once-complete support of murder to achieve their objectives.
--
"Jokes mentioning ducks were considered particularly funny." - cnn.com
A certain Fin, of soc.culture.irish "fame", writes :
>Your lucky the SAS didn't get their way, a document was placed in front of >Thatcher to sign with over 100 IRA members on it, if this had been signed >they would all have vacated Gods Planet ;-)
Two problems here.
(1) Assassinating the IRA's top brass only makes them considerably stronger, as history shows. If you swat a bee outside a nest you'll have the whole swarm after you. The IRA can only really be defeated by splitting them and forcibly involving them in democratic politics.
(2) Assuming you're telling the truth, why wasn't a list of 100 UDA/UVF members put in front of Thatcher and considered SAS targets ?
--
"Jokes mentioning ducks were considered particularly funny." - cnn.com
> A certain Fin, of soc.culture.irish "fame", writes :
> >Your lucky the SAS didn't get their way, a document was placed in front of > >Thatcher to sign with over 100 IRA members on it, if this had been signed > >they would all have vacated Gods Planet ;-)
> Two problems here.
> (1) Assassinating the IRA's top brass only makes them considerably > stronger, as history shows. If you swat a bee outside a nest you'll have > the whole swarm after you. The IRA can only really be defeated by > splitting them and forcibly involving them in democratic politics.
Perhaps this is the case, but wouldn't taking out over 100 top IRA officials seriously weaken them, we are talking about the ones at the top.
> (2) Assuming you're telling the truth, why wasn't a list of 100 UDA/UVF > members put in front of Thatcher and considered SAS targets ?
At that time were the UDA/UVF a major threat to the British mainland?
>> > > >It amazes me further that half of them walk the street even though it >has >> > > >been proven most have been active IRA members.
>> > > They are in favour of some wars, and against others. It hardly takes a >> > > huge amount of effort to work that out.
>> > Its hardly the point though is it not? it just all seems extremely >> > hypocritical to me that's all!
>> > Fin
>> What just the same way the British army is hypocrital for the way its >> aided supported and supplied loyalist terrorists for the last 30 >> years. This includes the supplying of intelligence, organising arm >> shipments from south africa and providing agents who took part >> directly in the murder of innocent people.
>Your lucky the SAS didn't get their way, a document was placed in front of >Thatcher to sign with over 100 IRA members on it, if this had been signed >they would all have vacated Gods Planet ;-)
>But for your argument above, imagine for a second that the role was reversed >and you were sent in to protect the people of NI on both sides,
Ostensibly this was the case but actions speak louder than words.
> both hate you,
Bullshit. One side wants you there with all their hearts. I heard David Ervine, with my own ears, say that the presence of the Watchtowers increased his feelings of security.
> and yet many who live in Britain are meant to take a non biased view, >even though the IRA are bombing the mainland.
What's this "are" shit? Get the tense right. The Provisional IRA are *NOT* currently bombing 'the mainland'.
> Or maybe its the hypocrasy >> of unionism who will not have terrorists in government but party >> leaders such as Ian Paisely founder of the Ulster Volunteer force >> walked into stormont on the first day of the new assembly with >> convicted UDA killers.
>Yes, and Gerry had nothing to do with the IRA even though it has been >consistantly reported that they were both commanders.
Proof please? Mere assertion does not establish the truth.
> >> > > >It amazes me further that half of them walk the street even though it > >has > >> > > >been proven most have been active IRA members.
> >> > > They are in favour of some wars, and against others. It hardly takes a > >> > > huge amount of effort to work that out.
> >> > Its hardly the point though is it not? it just all seems extremely > >> > hypocritical to me that's all!
> >> > Fin
> >> What just the same way the British army is hypocrital for the way its > >> aided supported and supplied loyalist terrorists for the last 30 > >> years. This includes the supplying of intelligence, organising arm > >> shipments from south africa and providing agents who took part > >> directly in the murder of innocent people.
> >Your lucky the SAS didn't get their way, a document was placed in front of > >Thatcher to sign with over 100 IRA members on it, if this had been signed > >they would all have vacated Gods Planet ;-)
> >But for your argument above, imagine for a second that the role was reversed > >and you were sent in to protect the people of NI on both sides,
> Ostensibly this was the case but actions speak louder than words.
'yawn'
> > both hate you,
> Bullshit. One side wants you there with all their hearts. I heard > David Ervine, with my own ears, say that the presence of the > Watchtowers increased his feelings of security.
Oh so the many friends I have are lairs are they?
> > and yet many who live in Britain are meant to take a non biased view, > >even though the IRA are bombing the mainland.
> What's this "are" shit? Get the tense right. The Provisional IRA are > *NOT* currently bombing 'the mainland'.
They were at the time 'fool'
> > Or maybe its the hypocrasy > >> of unionism who will not have terrorists in government but party > >> leaders such as Ian Paisely founder of the Ulster Volunteer force > >> walked into stormont on the first day of the new assembly with > >> convicted UDA killers.
> >Yes, and Gerry had nothing to do with the IRA even though it has been > >consistantly reported that they were both commanders.
> Proof please? Mere assertion does not establish the truth.
Refute any of this....
ADAMS, Gerald (Gerry) 6 Oct 48 IRA/SF Norfolk Gardens, west Belfast Eldest child of Anne and Gerry Adams, born 6 Oct 48 Mothers family Hannaway. Father jailed in 40`s for wounding RUC. Wife's name Colette, married late Aug 71, one son Gearoid Brothers: Paddy, Liam, Sean, Dominic Sisters: Margaret, Anne, Frances, Maura, Deirdre Grew up Ballymurphy, IRA member since 65 (age 17). Unemployed barman (sponging British taxpayer's dole) most of his life. Agitator and in Provo 'battalion` QM Ballymurphy 65-69 70 IC 2nd 'battalion` Belfast 'brigade` IRA. Met Capt James Kelly of Eire Army in Belfast about arming IRA (70) Interned, 71, released for June 72 talks, IRA's Belfast delegate to London (72) Jean McConville kidnapped, tortured and murdered from Divis flats, 7 Dec 72 IC Belfast 'brigade` 72 until July 73, in 72-73 IRA murdered 392 people. Caught July 73 returned to Maze Tried to escape by changing places with visitor Alfred McNiece who resembled him Refused to obey order from IRA's Dave Morley to burn hut in Maze (Oct 74) Left Army Council Oct 82, replaced by Pat Doherty Returned to Army Council (Nov 96) President SF (97) . MP for West Belfast. MLA for Belfast West On IRA Army Council (99). Still there 25 Mar 01 (Times) Used IRA Adj General Martin Lynch's car and found bug in it (00)
A certain Fin, of soc.culture.irish "fame", writes :
>> (1) Assassinating the IRA's top brass only makes them considerably >> stronger, as history shows. If you swat a bee outside a nest you'll have >> the whole swarm after you. The IRA can only really be defeated by >> splitting them and forcibly involving them in democratic politics.
>Perhaps this is the case, but wouldn't taking out over 100 top IRA officials >seriously weaken them, we are talking about the ones at the top.
That logic was used in 1916 with disastrous results for the union.
>> (2) Assuming you're telling the truth, why wasn't a list of 100 UDA/UVF >> members put in front of Thatcher and considered SAS targets ?
>At that time were the UDA/UVF a major threat to the British mainland?
Suddenly the union disappears. What's the point of having a union or being part of the UK if people are going to cut you loose every now and again? You seem to be saying that Thatcher didn't give a shit about the IRA as long as they restricted their bombing to Northern Ireland. It must be very depressing for unionists if they truly believe that to be the case. It seems that the union is a big lie at times.
--
"Jokes mentioning ducks were considered particularly funny." - cnn.com
A certain Nik, of soc.culture.irish "fame", writes :
>> both hate you,
>Bullshit. One side wants you there with all their hearts. I heard >David Ervine, with my own ears, say that the presence of the >Watchtowers increased his feelings of security.
The security force presence for all of it's problems does have benefits for everyone, including republicans who occasionally have to have bombs which have been delivered to their homes defused.
>>Yes, and Gerry had nothing to do with the IRA even though it has been >>consistantly reported that they were both commanders.
>Proof please? Mere assertion does not establish the truth.
Given that the IRA was a secret organization it's going to be difficult to find Gerry's membership documents. However if it was really that much of a big problem I'm sure he'd sue - which to date he has not.
--
"Jokes mentioning ducks were considered particularly funny." - cnn.com
> A certain Fin, of soc.culture.irish "fame", writes :
> >> (1) Assassinating the IRA's top brass only makes them considerably > >> stronger, as history shows. If you swat a bee outside a nest you'll have > >> the whole swarm after you. The IRA can only really be defeated by > >> splitting them and forcibly involving them in democratic politics.
> >Perhaps this is the case, but wouldn't taking out over 100 top IRA officials > >seriously weaken them, we are talking about the ones at the top.
> That logic was used in 1916 with disastrous results for the union.
Most Southern Irish people couldn't actually care less to the extent they did in 1916 though, and the IRA are an underground organisation intent on one goal.
I'm not saying that the list was right, but who knows what would have happened had she signed it.
> >> (2) Assuming you're telling the truth, why wasn't a list of 100 UDA/UVF > >> members put in front of Thatcher and considered SAS targets ?
> >At that time were the UDA/UVF a major threat to the British mainland?
> Suddenly the union disappears. What's the point of having a union or > being part of the UK if people are going to cut you loose every now and > again? You seem to be saying that Thatcher didn't give a shit about the > IRA as long as they restricted their bombing to Northern Ireland. It > must be very depressing for unionists if they truly believe that to be > the case. It seems that the union is a big lie at times.
The Union is actually disappearing under the Blair regime, one thing about Thatcher was she took NI very seriously, Blair on the other hand would prefer to be rid of it.
A certain Fin, of soc.culture.irish "fame", writes :
>> That logic was used in 1916 with disastrous results for the union.
>Most Southern Irish people couldn't actually care less to the extent they >did in 1916 though, and the IRA are an underground organisation intent on >one goal.
They didn't care in 1916 either - until after the executions had taken place.
>I'm not saying that the list was right, but who knows what would have >happened had she signed it.
The situation would have worsened dramatically, and we'd possibly have been plunged into civil war.
>> Suddenly the union disappears. What's the point of having a union or >> being part of the UK if people are going to cut you loose every now and >> again? You seem to be saying that Thatcher didn't give a shit about the >> IRA as long as they restricted their bombing to Northern Ireland. It >> must be very depressing for unionists if they truly believe that to be >> the case. It seems that the union is a big lie at times.
>The Union is actually disappearing under the Blair regime,
Tell me about which aspects of the union have undergone a change in the past ten years.
> one thing about >Thatcher was she took NI very seriously,
Unionists certainly do have short memories. Now you've forgotten the Anglo Irish Agreement. As a result of that particular document Ian Paisley even prayed from the pulpit that God would do something horrible to Mrs T.
>Blair on the other hand would >prefer to be rid of it.
Under Blair and the Agreement the Anglo Irish Agreement was finally suspended. Under Thatcher it was created and under the auspices of the Downing St Declaration & the Framework Document (under the Major govt) it looked like it could be strengthened.
--
"Jokes mentioning ducks were considered particularly funny." - cnn.com
> > > I often wonder about that. Obviously, you have to be > > > unemployed at the moment, bored out of your tree, and with > > > nothing better to do than post obvious snipes at all and sundry. > > > If I was you I would get a job in Computer Graphics!
> ...
> Yes but Harry, the very fact that you're willing to take time > out from your hectic schedule of selling bulk fertiliser, or the > latest line in women's corsets, or whatever it is that you sell, > simply in order to read my modest efforts makes it all so worthwhile!
Exactly what I mean. You have nothing better to do! Boreing!
> > > Because if you think you're in any position whereby you can issue > > > general injunctions to other posters as to what they should and > > > shouldn't post, and not thereby turn yourself into a laughing stock > > > in the process, then your're sadly mistaken I'm afraid.
> > TUT! Double negatives! Bad English! - I really "hate" that! - Especially > > when it is in the context of spurious rubbish.
> ...
> Would you mind pointing out the double negative in my statement please ?
It is there. You won't see it of course!
> Or is your knowledge of Good English about on a par with your > knowledge of the wide range of goods offered by Argos Catalogues?
> i.e totally non existent!
> So that as per usual, you can be expected to run away from yet one > more awkward question!
ROTFL! - What sheer nonsense! I happen to have fairly good qualifications in English, in fact. My knowledge of the Argos catalogue can only be peripheral since I seldom use it. Unlike yourself, who, obviously, uses it to purchase the worst possible bad taste in Football jerseys and dreadfully bad style of shell suits!
Enough! This foolish rubbish has nothing to do with the point.
>> >> > > >It amazes me further that half of them walk the street even though >it >> >has >> >> > > >been proven most have been active IRA members.
>> >> > > They are in favour of some wars, and against others. It hardly >takes a >> >> > > huge amount of effort to work that out.
>> >> > Its hardly the point though is it not? it just all seems extremely >> >> > hypocritical to me that's all!
>> >> > Fin
>> >> What just the same way the British army is hypocrital for the way its >> >> aided supported and supplied loyalist terrorists for the last 30 >> >> years. This includes the supplying of intelligence, organising arm >> >> shipments from south africa and providing agents who took part >> >> directly in the murder of innocent people.
>> >Your lucky the SAS didn't get their way, a document was placed in front >of >> >Thatcher to sign with over 100 IRA members on it, if this had been signed >> >they would all have vacated Gods Planet ;-)
>> >But for your argument above, imagine for a second that the role was >reversed >> >and you were sent in to protect the people of NI on both sides,
>> Ostensibly this was the case but actions speak louder than words.
>'yawn'
'Yawn'? Is it not true?
>> > both hate you,
>> Bullshit. One side wants you there with all their hearts. I heard >> David Ervine, with my own ears, say that the presence of the >> Watchtowers increased his feelings of security.
>Oh so the many friends I have are lairs are they?
I'm only reporting exactly what I heard, with my own ears, come from David Ervine's mouth and he is a representative of the UVF, but you knew that.
>> > and yet many who live in Britain are meant to take a non biased view, >> >even though the IRA are bombing the mainland.
>> What's this "are" shit? Get the tense right. The Provisional IRA are >> *NOT* currently bombing 'the mainland'.
>They were at the time 'fool'
Really I should refrain from pointing out grammatical errors but this is about more than grammatical pedantry...I will say it again:
The Provisional Irish Republican Army are *NOT* currently bombing anywhere in Britain or Ireland...
> > Or maybe its the hypocrasy >> >> of unionism who will not have terrorists in government but party >> >> leaders such as Ian Paisely founder of the Ulster Volunteer force >> >> walked into stormont on the first day of the new assembly with >> >> convicted UDA killers.
>> >Yes, and Gerry had nothing to do with the IRA even though it has been >> >consistantly reported that they were both commanders.
>> Proof please? Mere assertion does not establish the truth.
>Refute any of this....
>ADAMS, Gerald (Gerry) 6 Oct 48 IRA/SF Norfolk Gardens, west Belfast >Eldest child of Anne and Gerry Adams, born 6 Oct 48 >Mothers family Hannaway. Father jailed in 40`s for wounding RUC. >Wife's name Colette, married late Aug 71, one son Gearoid >Brothers: Paddy, Liam, Sean, Dominic Sisters: Margaret, Anne, Frances, >Maura, Deirdre >Grew up Ballymurphy,
Sounds right to me.
> IRA member since 65 (age 17).
Proof please? You've made the claim, the onus is on you to support it.
>Unemployed barman (sponging British taxpayer's dole) most of his life.
Gerry has been a Barman...I would like proof of this alleged dole status though...
>Agitator and in Provo 'battalion` QM Ballymurphy 65-69
Proof please? You've made the claim, the onus is on you to support it.
>70 IC 2nd 'battalion` Belfast 'brigade` IRA.
Proof please? You've made the claim, the onus is on you to support it.
>Met Capt James Kelly of Eire Army in Belfast about arming IRA (70)
Proof please? You've made the claim, the onus is on you to support it.
>Interned, 71, released for June 72 talks, IRA's Belfast delegate to London >(72)
Or was that Sinn Fein's delegation to London?
>IC Belfast 'brigade` 72 until July 73,
Proof please? You've made the claim, the onus is on you to support it.
>Caught July 73 returned to Maze >Tried to escape by changing places with visitor Alfred McNiece who resembled >him
So what?
>Refused to obey order from IRA's Dave Morley to burn hut in Maze (Oct 74)
Proof please? You've made the claim, the onus is on you to support it.
>Left Army Council Oct 82, replaced by Pat Doherty
Proof please? You've made the claim, the onus is on you to support it.
>Returned to Army Council (Nov 96)
Proof please? You've made the claim, the onus is on you to support it.
>President SF (97) . MP for West Belfast. MLA for Belfast West
Indeed...we agree on something.
>On IRA Army Council (99). Still there 25 Mar 01 (Times)
Proof please? You've made the claim, the onus is on you to support it.
>Used IRA Adj General Martin Lynch's car and found bug in it (00)
Proof please? You've made the claim, the onus is on you to support it.
"Fin" <Blue...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:bgv55q$s441v$6@ID-186569.news.uni-berlin.de... > I can see that you are one of they pedantic little people who only believes > or admits what they seriously have to.
> If you like you can name another Provo and I'll give you details of what > he/she has been doing ;-)
> I won't reveal my source though
...
No need to numbskull.
You're simply copying it all off this loyalist website.
I'm actually surprised to see this, I had a document sent to me with all paramilitary on it both sides, and some activities, it had been made up through years of press reports, I will ask my source if he took it from this page.
Looks really messy though for it to be the work of the person that sent it to me.
> > so I guess you can call me a lair and what I > > posted about Gerry is all fictional, but we all know the truth!
> ...
> Yes that you're an idiot who won't reveal his sources because > he's got fantasies of being James Bond.
Oh I'm an idiot for protecting information that was given to me by someone who doesn't wish to be named all over the net, yes very good, are you coming back this way? can you please insult me again.
> And who also believes everything he reads on the Internet.
I don't actually do much of my reading on the internet.
> I'm actually surprised to see this, I had a document sent to > me with all paramilitary on it both sides,
...
Does the fact that the son of a prominent Republican played Gaelic Football at County Level, qualify him for inclusion in a list of paramilitaries then ?
Sorry qualify that.
A Loyalist Hit-List giving the names of purported prominent Republicans and their families, and their addresses wherever possible.
...
> and some activities, it had been made up > through years of press reports, I will ask my source if he took > it from this page.
...
Well they're obviously from the same source. Whoever it is who produces these Hit-Lists.
...
> Looks really messy though for it to be the work of the person > that sent it to me.
...
Yes very convincing
...
> Oh I'm an idiot for protecting information that was given to me > by someone who doesn't wish to be named all over the net,
...
Possibly those finding themselves on this Hit-List of purported prominent Republicans and their families, as published on that Website mightn't wish for their names and adresses to be put on the Net either.
...
> yes very good, are you coming > back this way? can you please insult me again.
...
I don't need to insult you.
Your quite obvious stupidity and\or naiveté speak for themselves.
On Fri, 8 Aug 2003 04:23:12 +0100, "Fin" <Blue...@hotmail.com> wrote: >"Nik" <warrens...@yahoo.co.nz> wrote in message >news:qns2jv8k65kg4fmtsfjsronud9aglj05v0@4ax.com... >> On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 22:10:34 +0100, "Fin" <Blue...@hotmail.com> wrote:
><snipped>
>I can see that you are one of they pedantic little people who only believes >or admits what they seriously have to.
Pedantic I can live with, little however, is off target.
>If you like you can name another Provo and I'll give you details of what >he/she has been doing ;-)
Tell me about what the Castlerea 5 have been up to then...
>I won't reveal my source though so I guess you can call me a lair and what I >posted about Gerry is all fictional, but we all know the truth!
I want to assure you that I will never call you a lair. I have no reason to do so.
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