NHibernate 3.0 Release Planned for June 2010?
Philippe
released this month (June 2010). Is that still the plan? I’d like to
build a repository pattern over NHibernate 3.0 using IQueryable<T> -
if that makes sense with this new version. I can always download a
current snapshot from the development trunk if the release is delayed
a bit, right?
Craig van Nieuwkerk
date is impossible, but something like "later this week", "maybe in a
couple of months" or "unlikely this year at current rate" would be
appreciated.
Craig
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Paco Wensveen
matter if it is released or not (except political reasons)? I do
understand someone is interested in the release of a specific feature,
but for NHibernate, it will be the same code as the trunk. The
revision will be labeled and be called a release on that day I guess.
Reggie Pangilinan
Yonah Wahrhaftig
Jason Dentler
Craig van Nieuwkerk
often not happy to use beta versions.
Fabio Maulo
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Fabio Maulo
Craig van Nieuwkerk
of such products you are in a better position than most to judge how
production ready they are. If I use trunk in production and it turns
out to be not quite ready then I have to face the music.
Craig.
f....@free.fr
I think it depends on what is your job. I know a lot of corporate where the
developper can't use a framework not compliant with several criterias.
If you are working on a project using nhibernate as I do (and i'm very happy
with it); with a large number of entities, it is still very usefull to forecast
a migration process, take time to learn the new functionnalities to really
leverage the new version.
But I still agree that the "official release" considering nh is more about
"marketing" than stability. There is a good test base and the trunk is stable.
Well that's continuous integration...
I guess it is like using SQL : you are always fighting dinosaure.
So when you can select and choose, it doesn't matter. But if your job is to
recommand a technology; it is difficult to get credit if you don't have
perspective on the roadmap.
I don't want to flame the post, but a similar situation occurs for me a couple
of month ago : we choose a framework for a particular task, and there was a
roadmap identifying key relase dates; with the supposed new functionnalities.
The first release is now over 6 months lates, and now a lot of people are asking
if it is safe to go on with this framework.
I do think that the answer is : don't give any roadmap if you have no intention
of being in time. I mean, you've made quite an amazing job with NHibernate, you
don't really need this kind of question to put discredit on the release process.
That's the way things are in it : If you say you release, everyone is expecting
you to release on time; and everyone THINKS that what is between two releases is
under dev or completely buggy.
Regards,
Fred.
Selon Fabio Maulo <fabio...@gmail.com>:
> nhusers+u...@googlegroups.com<nhusers%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
Fabio Maulo
From: Fabio Maulo <fabio...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 2:11 AM
Subject: Re: [nhusers] NHibernate 3.0 Release Planned for June 2010?
Believe me that I known any points you are talking about but... this is OSS world.
Fabio Maulo
--
Fabio Maulo
f....@free.fr
suporter....What a great demonstration of the OSS mindset.
You are 43, right, but since when are corporate using continuous integration ?
So my point was :
Why instead of giving a release date and a release number (that's more a
commercial software behavior); don't you just explain "The release is the daily
content of the trunk with a complete test base insuring a very high level of
quality ?". That would make things easier.
I've no problem working on the trunk, and once again, I've no word to tell how
much I admire your (the nh team) work.
What I told is what I've learned from my industry (a very specific one thought)
aver the last 12 years.
Everyday I'm fighting against 'oracle is better than anyone', 'all must be sql',
'n tiers architecture are top of the rope', and so on.
I'm very proud to announce that we use NHibernate, Spring, or Ninject or Apache
MQ or any OSS Framework. And each time the question is : "What version ?"
Why ? I don't know ! It like habits. Changing is difficult.
The same way people in my industry are still believing that testing an app is
having 120 peoples using the gui and posting issues. That a release is a build
and 6 months of gui tests. I know you are probably laughting; but I'm in a
situation where my clients have to remain secret.But if it was not the case, it
won't probably be funny anymore.
Don't get me wrong Fabio, I share your though.
But sometime, communication is important.
Fred.
Selon Fabio Maulo <fabio...@gmail.com>:
> Sorry for my mistake the below answer was sent in private...
<nhusers%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<nhusers%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>
Dietrich
page. NHForge.org seems abandoned to me and much of the information
seems out of dage, I thought things had moved to jboss for a while,
but now that's gone. It is such a wonderful technology but ask your
self if there is any one place a person can go to find out what the
features of the latest release are?
>
>
> > Sorry for my mistake the below answer was sent in private...
> > See below if you are interested.
>
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: Fabio Maulo <fabioma...@gmail.com>
> > Date: Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 2:11 AM
> > Subject: Re: [nhusers] NHibernate 3.0 Release Planned for June 2010?
> > To: f...@free.fr
>
> > Believe me that I known any points you are talking about but... this is OSS
> > world.
> > We have no "marketing" issue because there is not a "marketing" department
> > in our work. NHibernate is not a company and there is not a department at
> > all.
> > We know what mean "release" and only for that reason we will release
> > something at some point.
> > Because the quality is not achieved by chance, NHibernate has 2483
> > integration tests with MsSQL2008 with a build server (
>
>
> > Roadmap: we hope to fix all of the actual existing open issues but because
> > we know that it will be impossible we can only say you that we will release
> > NH3 before the end of this year.
>
> > Fred, when somebody will ask you if "it is safe to go on with this framework"
> > say him : "No, it is better to go to EntityFramework"
>
> > P.S. I'm doing it all the time but after 2 or 3 weeks I'm seeing the same
> > people back to NH... perhaps this is only a casuality, perhaps... the
> > quality is not achieved by chance
>
> > > > No ? are you sure ?
> > > > we are using trunk of NH, trunk of NHV, trunk of NHCH, trunk of
> > > NHSpatial,
> > > > trunk of NHSerach, trunk of uNHAddIns, trunk of ConfORM in production.
>
> > > > On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 8:04 PM, Craig van Nieuwkerk
f....@free.fr
This is OSS; so the community needs some support.
I think as user of the framework we also have some responsabilities (that comes
with its great power ;-))
Selon Dietrich <tom.di...@gmail.com>:
John Davidson
Fabio Maulo
I will have a Features page posted to the wiki by tomorrow morning (I have been working on it for a few days now) and would like to get community input on the features. Once it is ready there will be a link from the home page to that Features page.
--
Fabio Maulo
Dietrich
experience in documentation and don't think I'd be up to the task of
documenting the whole of NHibernate.
On Jun 21, 9:10 am, Fabio Maulo <fabioma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I will have a Features page posted to the wiki by tomorrow morning (I have
> > been working on it for a few days now) and would like to get community input
> > on the features. Once it is ready there will be a link from the home page to
> > that Features page.
>
> The good spirit of a OSS guy!!
>
> This is the old Welcome message:http://nhforge.org/content/WelcomeMessage.aspx
>
> Try to re-read it:
> "If you are interested in starting to contribute by writing articles,
> providing content for a wiki, or provide value in any other way you can
> blog)."
>
> Obviously you can sit down and write only some simple critic about the
> content of the site without move a single finger, it is the most easy thing
> to do.
>
>
>
> > John Davidson
>
>
> >> Well, I agree with Fabio on that point :
> >> This is OSS; so the community needs some support.
>
> >> I think as user of the framework we also have some responsabilities (that
> >> comes
> >> with its great power ;-))
>
>
> read more »
Mike Katchourine
provider rewrite.
LINQ is now a non-negotiable part of programming in .NET.
LINQ support is the weakest point of NHibernate, and it detracts from
its otherwise awesome qualities. Current NHContrib version of the LINQ
provider is broken in many fundamental areas - grouping, joining,
comparison e.t.c. Using either HQL or criteria API to plug those areas
results in inconsistent bulky codebase that is hard to maintain.
I can't in all conscience use the trunk, as Fabio suggests. Tried it
before. For all the assurance that nothing gets contributed to the
trunk if it fails a test, the reality of the situation is, effective
full coverage unit tests can only be produced from sufficient exposure
to real life production environments, and that just doesn't happen
until the software is officially released. Especially with the LINQ
provider, for every 1 problem solved 1 problem that was solved before
is now broken, so I would much rather wait. At least I KNOW what's
broken in the 2.1 LINQ provider now so that I can avoid it.
Fabio Maulo
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Fabio Maulo
Jason Dentler
Frans Bouma
something is fixed, another query which worked (in his code!) now fails.
Likely this is overexxagerated, but it's very possible, as Linq has many
many use cases (as in: infinite) and queries which are possible, and my
experience is that every single query could fail due to a slightly different
expression tree, which might have expressions left in it after a given
stage, causing crashes later on. A fix in a linq provider usually means that
a conversion of a subtree is changed so _that_ particular subtree results in
an expected subtree, but if the subtree is slightly different (very well
possible, e.g. some lame Convert() expression is present in a query), the
fix might skip the subtree altogether and the query ends up broken.
You can't simply test for this with unit tests. MS has (of what I heard,
after I asked for them ;)) several million tests for linq to sql and they
still occasionally find bugs.
What users of a Linq provider should understand, but often they don't, is
that there will be no point in time where a linq provider works properly in
all cases: it WILL fail, no matter how much effort one puts into it, in edge
cases. With other techniques, like string based query systems, predicate
object based systems etc. you can write straight-forward code which
eliminates almost all odd cases and you can test these systems properly.
With linq expression trees, this isn't the case as the expression tree isn't
an AST you transform, it's an object graph with a web of references.
FB
> <mailto:nhusers%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com> .
Fabio Maulo
Fabio Maulo