Verizon to FairPoint: What are the alternatives?
Howard Kaikow
PeterD
<kai...@standards.com> wrote:
>In Nashua, what are the alternatives to Verizon for LOCAL telephone service?
>
Why is there so much dislike for FarPoint? It seems that a lot of
people are really dead set against that company...
As to alternatives, you looking at local, LD or what? (Or both?)
Howard Kaikow
Howard Kaikow
Verizon/FairPoint.
I have at least the following concerns:
1. Any carrier freeze that is lifted to permit transfer from Verizon to
FairPoint must be automatically re-instated. It is unfair to dump this
responsibility on the consumer.
2. There must not be any charge to switch from FairPoint to another carrier,
or from Verizon to another carrier, for at least 12 months. As the change
from Verizon to FairPoint is not voluntary, and we have no experience using
FairPoint, it is unfair for the consumer to have to incur a charge to choose
an alternative carrier.
3. How does such a switch affect the local calling area? For example, those
of us living in border areas, in some cases, can call numbers in certain
areas of Massachusetts. What will happen to those calls when FairPoint
controls NH, while Verizon still controls Massachusetts?
4. What are the alternative local carriers?
David J. P. Long
>On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 17:48:46 -0500, "Howard Kaikow"
><kai...@standards.com> wrote:
>
>>In Nashua, what are the alternatives to Verizon for LOCAL telephone service?
>>
>
>Why is there so much dislike for FarPoint? It seems that a lot of
>people are really dead set against that company...
Because they have not demonstrated they can handle having their
customer base grow by an order of magnitude, for starters.
Secondly, those of us who have Fios (like me) were looking forward to
the day when Fios TV would be made available. It's available 6 miles
from my house, across the border in Massachusetts.
Fairpoint has basically said that the fiber lines they are buying with
sit and be maintained to keep from rotting on the vine but that DSL is
where they're looking at investing.
I took the leap from DSL to fiber and it's *amazing*. FiosTV would
have helped everyoine in the area by being a check against Comcast's
rate hikes. I was looking forward to ditching my satellite dish in
favor of Fios TV but that's not happening.
NH will be "stuck in time" with yesterday's technology (DSL has been
around since the early 1990s, ancient history in internet terms)
which, while good today, is woefully inadequate for the kinds of uses
people are thinking up.
Howard Kaikow
news:b0ukp3pqf15h08a51...@4ax.com...
> Because they have not demonstrated they can handle having their
> customer base grow by an order of magnitude, for starters.
>
> Secondly, those of us who have Fios (like me) were looking forward to
> the day when Fios TV would be made available. It's available 6 miles
> from my house, across the border in Massachusetts.
>
> Fairpoint has basically said that the fiber lines they are buying with
> sit and be maintained to keep from rotting on the vine but that DSL is
> where they're looking at investing.
>
> I took the leap from DSL to fiber and it's *amazing*. FiosTV would
> have helped everyoine in the area by being a check against Comcast's
> rate hikes. I was looking forward to ditching my satellite dish in
> favor of Fios TV but that's not happening.
>
> NH will be "stuck in time" with yesterday's technology (DSL has been
> around since the early 1990s, ancient history in internet terms)
> which, while good today, is woefully inadequate for the kinds of uses
> people are thinking up.
Such comments need to be sent to the NH PUC.
I sent my earlier comments to:
o...@oca.nh.gov
p...@puc.nh.gov
story...@wmur.com
let...@nashuatelegraph.com
ne...@nashuatelegraph.com
let...@globe.com
If enough folkes send comments to the NH PUC and the news media, perhaps,
...?
enigma
> Because they have not demonstrated they can handle having
> their customer base grow by an order of magnitude, for
> starters.
how would they do that if it hasn't occurred before?
> Secondly, those of us who have Fios (like me) were looking
> forward to the day when Fios TV would be made available.
> It's available 6 miles from my house, across the border in
> Massachusetts.
goody for the city dweller. :p
> Fairpoint has basically said that the fiber lines they are
> buying with sit and be maintained to keep from rotting on
> the vine but that DSL is where they're looking at
> investing.
and why is that a bad thing? you do realize that most of NH
doesn't *have* access to DSL yet, don't you?
now, i wouldn't turn my nose up at fiber optics either, but
i'd like *something* besides <gag> cable for highspeed access.
> I took the leap from DSL to fiber and it's *amazing*.
> FiosTV would have helped everyone in the area by being a
> check against Comcast's rate hikes. I was looking forward
> to ditching my satellite dish in favor of Fios TV but
> that's not happening.
yay, goody for you, but your complaints about not getting what
*you* want means the rest of us outside Nashua aren't even
going to get DSL, because Verizon has NO intention of
supplying DSL anywhere outside of it's current limited areas.
> NH will be "stuck in time" with yesterday's technology (DSL
> has been around since the early 1990s, ancient history in
> internet terms) which, while good today, is woefully
> inadequate for the kinds of uses people are thinking up.
and Verizon has already said if this sale is thwarted they
will not be putting anything into their infrastructure here
anyway, so you'll be able to pine over that Fios from 6 miles
away forever.
lee
Bill Clark
news:Xns9A31B79BDA9B...@199.125.85.9:
>> Fairpoint has basically said that the fiber lines they are
>> buying with sit and be maintained to keep from rotting on
>> the vine but that DSL is where they're looking at
>> investing.
> and why is that a bad thing? you do realize that most of NH
> doesn't *have* access to DSL yet, don't you?
> now, i wouldn't turn my nose up at fiber optics either, but
> i'd like *something* besides <gag> cable for highspeed access.
and I would like something better than dialup at 26.4 k on a good day
--
-bc-
enigma
news:Xns9A31D2E5CDFF7cu...@198.186.192.200:
hah! yeah. the *only* reason i got the cable modem was because
Verizon was too stupid to move the switching station the first
time it flooded & then was surprised it ended up under 4' of
water last spring, leaving most of Rockingham county with no
or very limited phone service for 2 months. i had no phone for
3 weeks & only in town local for another 5 weeks.
i just wasn't going without internet access for an
unspecified period of weeks, so i got a cable modem (despite
having had problems with the cable co bad enough to switch my
TV to satellite).
if Verizon had their act together, i *should* have DSL
because there's a switchbox on the corner of my property...
but no, it's an analog box & they have no intention of
upgrading it ever.
AFAICS, Fair Point can't be any worse.
lee
PeterD
wrote:
IMHO, I am not sure that FarPoint will be any worse than one of the
other 'aftermarket' service providers. You'll still be using
FarPoint's lines and equipment generally, with just the very end done
by someone else if you select a different Local service provider.
What Verison's take is, is this: They feel that copper is dead. This
is one of the first thought out decisions I've ever seen from a
converted utility, usually you have to beat them with a 2x4 before
they'll accept new technology and realize that what they are offering
is not viable anymore.
The sad truth is that personal communications is changing, and towards
wireless in most areas (especially rural, where infrastructure costs
are very high) and that's reality.
Bill Clark
news:4g5pp3l1g9fp8raen...@4ax.com:
> wireless in most areas (especially rural,
The rural areas around here don't have wireless either... While I'm
happy with satellite TV, I don't trust the way the Satellite
Internet providers do business... While it's slow, I, at least, have
reliable dial up with a dynamite ISP...
--
-bc-
David J. P. Long
>> Because they have not demonstrated they can handle having
>> their customer base grow by an order of magnitude, for
>> starters.
>
>how would they do that if it hasn't occurred before?
They don't have a great history for the purchases they've made before.
Service, from what I've read, didn't exactly improve once Fairpoint
bought someone.
>> Secondly, those of us who have Fios (like me) were looking
>> forward to the day when Fios TV would be made available.
>> It's available 6 miles from my house, across the border in
>> Massachusetts.
>
>goody for the city dweller. :p
Don't try getting into class warfare. The "city dwellers", and I
hardly consider myself one since I lived in New York City in the 1970s
before moving to the Nashua area, are your economic engine generating
most of the taxes in the state.
The *real* solution is to get Verizon to improve their fiber
offerings. Since DC passed new legislation that allows companies to
negotiate a state-wide franchise, instead of having to negotiate with
every single town, for 'cable tv service', there are a lot fewer
start-up costs.
I grant you that the North Country would be last on Verizon's list,
but do you think an undersized company with a brand-spanking-new TWO
BILLION dollar loan is going to do better?
>> Fairpoint has basically said that the fiber lines they are
>> buying with sit and be maintained to keep from rotting on
>> the vine but that DSL is where they're looking at
>> investing.
>
>and why is that a bad thing? you do realize that most of NH
>doesn't *have* access to DSL yet, don't you?
> now, i wouldn't turn my nose up at fiber optics either, but
>i'd like *something* besides <gag> cable for highspeed access.
Define "most". By sqare miles? Yeah, you're probably right. But, as
far as I know, all the major cities and towns have it so, by
population, I'd say most of NH does have it.
But there lies a rub. If you *choose* to live in the backwoods - and
there are plenty of reasons to do so - isn't one of the appeals that
it's NOT like 'the cities'? My mom lives in an unincorporated section
of Greene County Indiana. A whole lot of NOTHING out there. She
doesn't expect things like bus service to her door or high-speed
internet.
>yay, goody for you, but your complaints about not getting what
>*you* want means the rest of us outside Nashua aren't even
>going to get DSL, because Verizon has NO intention of
>supplying DSL anywhere outside of it's current limited areas.
I know plenty of people outside Nashua who have it.
>and Verizon has already said if this sale is thwarted they
>will not be putting anything into their infrastructure here
>anyway, so you'll be able to pine over that Fios from 6 miles
>away forever.
That's what they said before the law changed.
Also, since that time, Fios is now turning a profit and is NOT the big
money sink that Wall Street thought it would be (i.e. that it would be
losing money for many more years before turning a profit).
From what I can see, the rules changed after the sale was announced.
Verizon has to keep singing the party line or else Fairpoint could
haul them into court for not performing up to the conditions of the
original agreement.
You think that Verizon would leave money on the table when they see
how profitable and popular this is all becoming?
enigma
> enigma <eni...@evil.net> wrote:
>
>>> Because they have not demonstrated they can handle having
>>> their customer base grow by an order of magnitude, for
>>> starters.
>>
>>how would they do that if it hasn't occurred before?
>
> They don't have a great history for the purchases they've
> made before. Service, from what I've read, didn't exactly
> improve once Fairpoint bought someone.
do you have cites? i'd like to see their track record. online
would be nice, if possible.
>
>>> Secondly, those of us who have Fios (like me) were
>>> looking forward to the day when Fios TV would be made
>>> available. It's available 6 miles from my house, across
>>> the border in Massachusetts.
>>
>>goody for the city dweller. :p
>
> Don't try getting into class warfare. The "city dwellers",
> and I hardly consider myself one since I lived in New York
> City in the 1970s before moving to the Nashua area, are
> your economic engine generating most of the taxes in the
> state.
cities, because of their population density, are the first
line for new expensive technologies. has nothing to do with
'class', as cities also have more poor than the rural areas.
still, it's a bit rude to assume that everyone has equal
access to what you do, as you seem to be doing with DSL. it
may be "old tech" now, but it's still very limited in
availability.
> The *real* solution is to get Verizon to improve their
> fiber offerings. Since DC passed new legislation that
> allows companies to negotiate a state-wide franchise,
> instead of having to negotiate with every single town, for
> 'cable tv service', there are a lot fewer start-up costs.
Verizon has repeatedly said they don't intend to upgrade
anything in NH, if the sale falls through. DC may have given
them a go-ahead, but they don't want to take it.
>
> I grant you that the North Country would be last on
> Verizon's list, but do you think an undersized company with
> a brand-spanking-new TWO BILLION dollar loan is going to do
> better?
i'm not IN the North Country. i'm in southern NH... you know,
where all those upper middle class commuters live? the ones
that would be able to telecommute if they had a decent
connection speed...
there's no excuse for Verizon not to have upgraded the local
box to digital, except they just don't want to. actually,
their words were something like: "the copper works & it's less
than 30 years old..."
>>> Fairpoint has basically said that the fiber lines they
>>> are buying with sit and be maintained to keep from
>>> rotting on the vine but that DSL is where they're looking
>>> at investing.
>>
>>and why is that a bad thing? you do realize that most of NH
>>doesn't *have* access to DSL yet, don't you?
>> now, i wouldn't turn my nose up at fiber optics either,
>> but
>>i'd like *something* besides <gag> cable for highspeed
>>access.
>
> Define "most". By sqare miles? Yeah, you're probably
> right. But, as far as I know, all the major cities and
> towns have it so, by population, I'd say most of NH does
> have it.
how very elitist of you. some of us prefer not to have our
neighbors sitting in our laps.
when i bought this property 9 years ago, i figured we would
have DSL available within a year, maybe two, as Verizon was
trumpeting all over how they were installing digital as fast
as they could. we were told that it would be here. it's not.
but hey, at least they *did* fix the phones so we can call
outside of town again.
> But there lies a rub. If you *choose* to live in the
> backwoods - and there are plenty of reasons to do so -
> isn't one of the appeals that it's NOT like 'the cities'?
i dunno why that would mean they can get away with not
upgrading the lines. i have a much more rural place in upstate
NY that has DSL. but it's TDS, not Verizon (and my phone/DSL
bill there is cheaper than Verizon's Freedom Plan with no
DSL).
> My mom lives in an unincorporated section of Greene County
> Indiana. A whole lot of NOTHING out there. She doesn't
> expect things like bus service to her door or high-speed
> internet.
she probably didn't ask if DSL was going to be available there
before she bought the place either. i did. i was told it would
be, by Verizon.
personally, i'd be just as happy if TDS took over...
lee
Howard Kaikow
http://www.oca.nh.gov/07-011.htm
http://www.puc.nh.gov/Telecom/Filings/DT07-011/12-17-07%20Verizon%20FairPoint%20Deliberations.pdf
http://puc.nh.gov/Telecom/VerizonSaleToFairpoint.htm
http://www.puc.nh.gov/Telecom/ClecCustomerContacts.pdf
I had commented:
"3. How does such a switch affect the local calling area? For example, those
of us living in border areas, in some cases, can call numbers in certain
areas of Massachusetts. What will happen to those calls when FairPoint
controls NH, while Verizon still controls Massachusetts?"
NH PUC replied "Your local calling area will not change."
Bob
service is customer service. It's poor now. I think the PUCs of all
three states should require that FairPoint make an ironclad promise to
improve this, and I haven't seen any mention in the press of any of
the PUCs asking for this.
An example of this: Last Oct. I moved to Dover, NH from central MA.
The new phone directory for SE NH comes out in mid-Nov. Until
recently, the phone company sent a new phone directory by default if
someone moved into the territory of another directory. When I signed
up for new phone service, I didn't ask for one because I didn't think
I had to ask. I waited a week, no new phone book, and I realized they
weren't going to send one. So I called and asked for one. The business
office said I couldn't ask for one thru them and would have to use the
directory ordering tool, which they forwarded me to before I had time
to protest. As most of you know, Verizon now uses a voice recognition
system for ordering out of town (and now, in-town) phone books. I
should have asked for a live person, but I decided to gamble on the
robot. The robot said the new phone book is coming out soon, do I want
to wait for it. I didn't know exactly when the new phone book was
coming out, and of course the robot didn't say. I didn't want to wait
3-4 weeks for one, so I asked them to send the current one. They then
said it would take 2-3 weeks to send it.
Two weeks later, we got a stack of new Verizon phone books in the
lobby. A week after that, Verizon sent me an old phone book by US
mail. Needless to say, it went straight into the trash. They wasted $5
of postage, plus the cost of the directory itself, because their
computers weren't smart enough to figure out that I wouldn't want an
old phone book after the new ones had come out.
Two days ago I realized that when I moved, I forgot to call Verizon
to change over my calling card to my new phone number. I will do it
tomorrow, and I'm dreading it.
We are taking a major risk by changing over to a phone company that
may be biting off more than they can chew. We deserve a lot of pluses
in other areas to compensate for this. Better FIOS and dialup Internet
service are important, but it isn't enough. WE NEED BETTER CUSTOMER
SERVICE, and if FairPoint doesn't provide it, I will be ticked off.
Howard Kaikow
He has only a cell phone and, he tells me, has not been able to get a land
line from Verizon.
I told him to call the NH PUC.
PeterD
wrote:
>The robot said the new phone book is coming out soon, do I want
>to wait for it. I didn't know exactly when the new phone book was
>coming out, and of course the robot didn't say. I didn't want to wait
>3-4 weeks for one, so I asked them to send the current one. They then
>said it would take 2-3 weeks to send it.
So you asked them to send the old one... OK, that was your choice.
> Two weeks later, we got a stack of new Verizon phone books in the
>lobby.
Like they told you they would...
>A week after that, Verizon sent me an old phone book by US
>mail.
Sounds like *GOOD* customer service, you asked and they delivered!
>Needless to say, it went straight into the trash. They wasted $5
>of postage, plus the cost of the directory itself, because their
customer asked for the old book, and then got unhappy because they
sent it?
>computers weren't smart enough to figure out that I wouldn't want an
>old phone book after the new ones had come out.
But they told you the new book was coming out. If you were unsure of
*when* you should have contacted them instead of just ordering it.
> Two days ago I realized that when I moved, I forgot to call Verizon
>to change over my calling card to my new phone number. I will do it
>tomorrow, and I'm dreading it.
> We are taking a major risk by changing over to a phone company that
>may be biting off more than they can chew.
With customers who are upset because Verizon does *exactly* what they
asked Verizon to do being unhappy, I can't see how any company will
make you happy.
> We deserve a lot of pluses
>in other areas to compensate for this.
Comphensate for *WHAT*?
>Better FIOS and dialup Internet
>service are important, but it isn't enough.
Dial up? What's that got to do with Verizon?
>WE NEED BETTER CUSTOMER
>SERVICE,
Seems Verizon's customer service for you was fantastic!
>and if FairPoint doesn't provide it, I will be ticked off.
Uh, like right now? <g>
PeterD
Oh, and did you ask him *why* he can't get a land line? I'd like to
hear the rest of the story, like maybe he has a large unpaid bill from
his last landline?
Howard Kaikow
> Oh, and did you ask him *why* he can't get a land line? I'd like to
> hear the rest of the story, like maybe he has a large unpaid bill from
> his last landline?
He told me that he did not get a straight answer.
Currently, he uses Comcast and a cell phone.
Paul
@4ax.com:
And is FairPoint taking over Verizon FIOS or not? All I have heard in the
ads is "landline phones and DSL."
--
Paul
PeterD
Not rocket science: call and order a line. Either they will install
it, or they won't. If they won't what's the answer?
I think your friend is being a bit evasive here, there is a reason,
and I suspect he knows what it is. The usual answers are that there is
no service avaialble (rural for example, no lines) or they have a
problem with the customer (past owed bills typically).
David J. P. Long
>
>And is FairPoint taking over Verizon FIOS or not? All I have heard in the
>ads is "landline phones and DSL."
I had to look deep into some of the articles that have been printed
over the last several month but, yes, the fiber is, unfortunately,
included in the deal.
I've had Fios in NH since Sept. '06 and it's been great.