Last week we aired a Tax Tale (see link below) involving a Canadian couple who phoned the CRA 12 separate times and got 12 different and sometimes conflicting answers to the exact same question.
1 Brad Reddekopp from Hazelton, Canada writes: Yeah, it's pretty important to get clear and accurate answers when you're trying to figure out how much the government is allowed to steal from you.
2 John Laws from Alberta, Canada writes: Many of the people on these phone lines at CRA are just out of school and are just repeating answers by route. When asked a question out of the norm, most don't really know but they try to give an answer anyway. Some of these people on the phone lines at CRA go on to be very intelliegnt tax accountants and auditors . . . unfortunately, many don't so they just sit on the phone lines and give answers by route.
3 Christine Jones from Saint John, Canada writes: A friend of mine had a similar experience with the EI phone lines when she had a question about her maternity leave benefits. She was given different information each time she called. Perhaps the phone operators at these federal offices should be trained to say, 'I'll have to check into that and get back to you,' when they don't know the answer.
4 Jean Chretien from Calgary, Canada writes: Never trust the CRA for anything. It's not their job to help you, that's your job. Their job is to find as much money for the CRA as possible. Get a good tax lawyer or accountant, just like you should never ask the police or the government for legal advice. Look out for yourself because you can darn sure that the CRA is looking out for themselves.
5 Gord Cee from Canada writes: What's the surprise news here? Government bureaucrats and service employees are lazy, overpaid, uncaring, unionized and generally dumb. What most of them need is to be enrolled in a customer service training course but CUPE would never allow anything as revolutionary as that. We get lousy service and we would get about the same lousy service with about 50% fewer government, so called, workers so I say fire half
6 Jimmy K from Toronto, Canada writes: Glad to see they finally won after being sent to help-line hell by CRA. Unfortunatly, if it was me in that situation, I probably would have just given up and sent them the damn money like the time 3 years ago a Bell Canada 'billing error' pulled four months of service from my bank account. Guess one of the 8 people I talked to forgot to send me that refund cheque. Problem is, when they have your money, they have no real incentive to get things right and give you your money back, so they might as well give you the run around, give you 12 different answers, and most people will throw their hands in their air and quit.
7 Craig Cooper from Toronto, writes: The simple fact is, the tax system is far too complicated and unbalanced. Let's abolish taxes and make our governments fund themselves the way everybody else must -- by EARNING it!
8 Border Crossing from East Coast, Canada writes: My advice, even though it is a lot of bother, is to do everything by snail mail. Keep a copy of everything and if you receive a phone call ask for a letter detailing their (revenue Canada) concerns or comments.
9 Gone Forever from Canada writes: The tax system in this country and those who enforce it have no respect for small business owners, the more honest you are and the harder you try to do the right thing, the more visible target you become. My best advise to small business owners, go underground, don't claim any expenses and don't declare any income. Unless you're an accountant, a lawyer or employed with Revenue Canada, you haven't got a hope in hell of getting fair treatment from this department.
10 A.S. Morris from Napanee, Canada writes: Score one for the little guy. I can fully understand the confusion and frustration that this couple endured. Some time ago I attempted to appeal a decision with the Ontario Minister of Finance which was the result of an error made by a clerk in the Department of Motor Vehicles. Needless to say the hurdles, loops and hoops that I had to go through were not worth the aggravation of the $288.00 that I was assessed (fined) as a result of the clerk's error. It cost me approx. $375.00 before I decided to drop my appeal - or on other words - cut my losses and save myself further frustration. The bureaucracy in this country, at all levels of government, seems to be growing at an exponential rate with goverment employees being very adept in playing the run around game.
11 Bethia MacPherson from Halifax, Canada writes: Just the other day, I contacted CCRA to inquire about my 2005 return. How is it that a total stranger at their end can ask me my full name, current address, birthdate, length and location of my employment, the income earned on line 150 of my return and the guy as snappy and unprofessional as he was, does not even have to provide his last name? What kind of rationale is that? He knows all kinds of confidential information about me, I know absolutely nothing about him...mmmm. From my perspective, I should be able to contact him directly or at least provide his name to another agent if I have any concerns whatsoever, after all, my taxes are paying his salary right?
12 G. Sam from Stratford PEI, Canada writes: This situation should be very familiar to all taxpayers! There has been no improvement in efficiency at CRA resulting from the huge increase in email filing of tax returns. Instead the staff have become even slower in dealing with the lessened work load. More staff has been reassigned to 'auditing' accounts. It should be obvious that less manhours should be required to review the available computer generated documents, and that should result in improved service. Instead the system now seems to drag its feet as long as possible to ensure that 'interest' can be applied to audited accounts. And the interest charged is higher than the Bank of Canada interest rate, approaching the usurous interest rates charged by Credit Card companies.
13 Charles Hoppe from Weymouth, Nova Scotia., Canada writes: The civil servants at the other end of the 1-800 line are mostly well meaning and work with the training that they have received. From time to time you might encounter someone who 'got up on the wrong side of the bed'. The problem lies with the management of the CRA. Not enough training before people start answering phone calls from the public and perhaps a computer system that just is not comprehensive enough. The judge obiously thought that we have a right to expect consistency from an agency such as CRA. It is the duty of the Civil Service to provide this consistency. If they fail in this duty someone needs to design and execute 'Plan B'.
14 Haywood Jablomey from Canada writes: The UK adopted a system some years ago where one government employee became the contact point for a taxpayer - the gov't employee treats the taxpayer as a client in guiding all tax related enquiries and issues. This system promotes gov't accountability to the taxpayer by eliminating the pass-the-buck culture that exists in any call centre, gov't or otherwise. Great way for the gov't to know its clients, and for the taxpayer to get effective service.
15 anu bose from ottawa, Canada writes: The lack of accurate information is a result of the extensive use of call-centres-a low-paid unskilled form of employment.
16 grealy ted from Canada writes: Typical government waste and inefficiency. You can bet that those Canada Revenue employees are still getting their salaries, taxpayer paid benefits, taxpayer paid holidays, paxpayer paid pension, taxpayer paid call-in-sick days off etc. And now the Johnson's doan't even have a business to operate and gain self-employment income. The usual government travesty, corruption and total rip-off of the taxpayer. When is the average Canadian going to wake up and realize that the typical government organization (federal, provincial, municipal, etc.) is corrupt and engages in behaviour that is criminal in nature. But, the typical Canadian keeps on working to support government workers who get extended holidays, e.g., while the typical Canadian checks in at work, away from their family, to support (via paying taxes) the lifesyle of these overpaid and inefficient (gov't.) 'workers'.
17 frank sapara from Watson Sask, Canada writes: I've had a similar experience a few years back. May be wise to begin recording future conversations in order to back any repercussions due to the incompetence of these poor overworked and underpaid civil servants.
18 Davo _ from Ottawa, Canada writes: I have faced a similar situation with the CRA and I'm soooo glad someone has finally been successful in making the point stick publicly to the CRA! The judge should have ordered the Tax Revenue Agency to pay the couple for the time lost phoning its 1-800 number and for the mess they had to go through... which any lawyer would have charged more than $3,500 dollars for!
19 Scott McAllister from Canada writes: Typical ...thats why their is a great need to change business and personal tax to a simplier form...even CRA don't know what they are doing. One thing that the gov't should do is stop giving subsides to Business but instead lower the tax and simplfy the tax for all business instead of a few business ..like Nortel , Bombardier,Canadian steamship lines (paul Martin)
20 D I from Toronto, Canada writes: The CRA are a bunch of bullies who think what they say is always right and don't challenge. Well, finally a win for the small guy! Never let the gov't push you around, we as taxpayers have rights, and I salute the Johnsons for standing up to this group of bullies we call the CRA.
21 Gardiner Westbound from Toronto, Canada writes: Dealing with the Revenue Canada,
...
42 Erika Fecteau from Montreal, Canada writes: Great news about the ruling. My advice to anyone with a business: hire an accountant to do your taxes. The money you spend is worth the peace of mind an accountant brings. Not sure why they dropped both businesses either. Bit strange, I find...
43 Bella Donna from Vancouver Island, Canada writes: Yesterday I phoned CRA's 1-800 line and after thirty minutes of waiting was told to call a different 1-800 number. I called that number and after thirty minutes of listening to wretched muzak, I was told I needed to call the first number again. I was too pissed off to call back and phoned my accountant's office instead. The secretary was quickly able to give me the information I was looking for. Why couldn't the folks at CRA give me the same information? What a huge waste of time. Sigh.
44 Fran Hoffer from Canada writes: Part of the reason the CRA is broken is because they create too much nonsensical work for themselves. After having lived at the same address for 8 years, I moved 350km for work. I deducted the moving expenses (only $600) on my next tax return, which was sent from my new address. The CRA sent me a demand for receipts (proof) of the moving expenses. If the CRA would waste less time trying to deprive honest working citizens out of deductions they are entitled to, there would be a lot less overhead and more time to do things properly.
45 E MacM from Canada writes: i'm amazed someone would give up a private business because of 3500 dollars. I agree they must have been frustrated but maybe they'd have been better off taking their taxes to a professional to do. I don't think any business unless your an accountant or really know what your doing, which they didn't, should do a businesses taxes. Its unfortunate the run around they got, we've all experienced it in some form or another but I don't think we can blame the workers on the phone lines they are just doing their jobs. someone did make a good suggestion if the call line employee is not sure of an answer don't give it tell them you'll look into it and put them on hold and check into it, if someone calls 4 or 5 times and tells you they keep getting conflicting info maybe a manager should be contacted to verify the info their getting is correct and at this point a name that they can refer back too. Again the fact they gave up their business because of a 3500 dollar tax bill instead of going to a professional like H &R block or any local accountant makes me question their part in all this. Sometimes taking short cuts costs you more in the long run.
46 Ron Romhanyi from Hamilton, ON, Canada writes: Here's a thought, do what an acquaintance of ours does every year: put all your stuff into the CRA envelope and drop it in the mail box sans stamp. Postage is not required for federal mailings. Let them earn their pay. Works pretty good too. She checks it afterwards and their spot on.
47 Smart Aleck from Guelph, ON, Canada writes: The CRA sounds like they are in cahoots with the student loan folks. We had similar problems with the CSL program. The funniest thing (although it really pissed me off at the time) was when one person, I'll keep her name from the forum, started out in one direction, then did an about face, and didn't even acknowledge that the change she made was significant. 'schedule 2' and 'confirmation of enrollment' sure sound different to me. And try asking for a manager. No wonder their service sucks so bad, no one has a manager that you can talk to. I think there needs to be more accountability for what gets said on those lines. Write down names, exact times and information shared. If you have the exact time and name, they can occasionally track down the recording. I have taken to recording the calls myself too. Too much frustration.
48 Richard Ball from Charlottetown PEI, Canada writes: I have had extremely helpful, professional service from the CRA personal Income Tax people in Charlottetown. Because Charlottetown is small, I am able to drive out to the tax office and speak to an agent face-to-face. They have been unfailingly courteous and helpful as I plow through the various issues that arise.
49 I R from Ontario, Canada writes: Unfortunately, many Canadians (Gord Cee and grealy ted in particular) need to be reminded that civil servants - and here's a real shocker - are tax paying citizens too! In the vast majority of cases, government workers do a commendable job of serving (some) Canadians who (sadly) can be snotty and entitled people who have a chip on their shoulder the size of Newfoundland and whose resentment has often nothing whatsoever to do with the person to whom they are speaking. While I enjoy my work and have been fortunate to speak to pleasant people 99.9% of the time, I have absolutely no problem disconnecting a call when the person becomes verbally abusive. People obviously forget that niceness goes a long way, so let me remind everyone that unless you'd appreciate someone coming to your work to curse, yell and threaten you, please don't employ the same tactics against others.
50 Ed Mullen from Halifax, Canada writes: CRA is a painful hang-over from the 'entitlements' era. Their masters in government got rid of all the friendly, competent staff and trained low cost staff in baffle-gab. Then they selected the barracudas from the pool to do collections. They grab bank accounts from pensioners, close down business accounts, garnishee wages, regardless of ability to pay. If there's money they can grab, they are merciless. The best defense is to work for nothing. Why not, there's nothing left after CRA anyway?
51 james m from toronto, Canada writes: Good for the judge! The CRA is a law unto itself. It's basically a legalized mob, shaking down middle class Canadians who don't have the means to pay. Note that the judge strongly recommended that interest charges be waived. And note that CRA officials declined to comment. I'll bet this couple is still going to be taken to the cleaners even though it was the CRA that screwed up. We just have one vote every four years, and after that we're ignored.
52 Dan Weagle from Halifax, Canada writes: This story won't come as a surprise to most who have had to deal with CRA. Like most government / union workers they are undertrained and/or simply offer horrible service/ product. Even attempting to document bad service is very difficult as you aren't allowed to know the name of the service provider...it must afford them quite the luxary to know that, for the most part, they aren't held accountable for their jobs. It is highly unlikely that government will ever rid itself of unions or the union mentality and even more unlikely that our tax laws will be simplified from the ridiclous social-engineering dogma it is now. We might as well get used to it because not even the Supreme Court could make CRA sit up and take note.
53 J Luft from Calgary, Canada writes: Governments often use the big hammer of their (tax funded) lawyers against individuals. The tactic is very prevalent in municipal government property tax assessment battles. They use the money of taxpayers to fight the same taxpayers who are also often paying for their own lawyers. It is a bullying tactic that needs to be stopped.
54 J Luft from Calgary, Canada writes: To #15 anu bose from ottawa who says 'The lack of accurate information is a result of the extensive use of call-centres-a low-paid unskilled form of employment.'....hmmmm....well, maybe partly but the biggest part of the reason is that the tax laws of Canada have become so complex due to their social engineering aspect that they are virtually incomprehensible. That's something that needs to be tackled.....a complete rewrite of the income tax laws to bring them down to earth. I'd suspect the Income Tax Act is bigger than the service manual for the Space Shuttle.
55 a s from ontario, Canada writes: I am a typical Canadian citizen, that pays my fair share of typical taxes and I am also a public service employee (not CRA). I resent the comments for post #5 Gord Cee. I am not lazy, I definitely am not uncaring and how dare you call me dumb, I am probably more educated than you Mr Cee . Based on my education, I am certainly underpaid. Please know your facts before you stick your foot in your mouth. I was not aware it is a crime to be unionized - get your unions straight, CUPE is not part of the federal government. You ask anyone that works in a call-centre for the federal government and you will realized that it is the management of the government at fault here, not the people that answer the phones. You are given little training, and you are paid not much more than minimum wage. I do not get any better service calling CRA than you do, but I understand completely what is behind that bad service. Is it right? Hell no. Before you start cutting a whole group of hard working, taxing paying citizens(just like you), learn to complain to the right person (MP's), not the front end workers who have to put up with uneducated, loud mouth people like you.
56 Vincent Clement from Windsor, Canada writes: I just had a recent experience with CRA. In the spring my wife and I received a disability certificate for my oldest son. It was back dated to 2002, which meant that we could amend my wife's tax returns for 2002, 2003 and 2004. Of course, we had to request the amendments in writing and provide them with a copy of the disability certificate. What a waste of time and resources. They couldn't automatically process the amendments? So I filled out the appropriate forms, requested revisions for 2002, 2003 and 2004, and mailed the package to CRA. Around the third week in June, we receive a letter dated June 2 from CRA informing us that they received the information for 2002. Uh, wait a minute. Everything was in one package - and does it really take two weeks to receive a letter? We were going on vacation, so I decided I would call
...
> 42 Erika Fecteau from Montreal, Canada writes: Great news about the > ruling. My advice to anyone with a business: hire an accountant to do > your taxes. The money you spend is worth the peace of mind an > accountant brings. Not sure why they dropped both businesses either. > Bit strange, I find...
> 43 Bella Donna from Vancouver Island, Canada writes: Yesterday I phoned > CRA's 1-800 line and after thirty minutes of waiting was told to call a > different 1-800 number. I called that number and after thirty minutes > of listening to wretched muzak, I was told I needed to call the first > number again. I was too pissed off to call back and phoned my > accountant's office instead. The secretary was quickly able to give me > the information I was looking for. Why couldn't the folks at CRA give > me the same information? What a huge waste of time. Sigh.
> 44 Fran Hoffer from Canada writes: Part of the reason the CRA is broken > is because they create too much nonsensical work for themselves. After > having lived at the same address for 8 years, I moved 350km for work. I > deducted the moving expenses (only $600) on my next tax return, which > was sent from my new address. The CRA sent me a demand for receipts > (proof) of the moving expenses. If the CRA would waste less time trying > to deprive honest working citizens out of deductions they are entitled > to, there would be a lot less overhead and more time to do things > properly.
> 45 E MacM from Canada writes: i'm amazed someone would give up a > private business because of 3500 dollars. I agree they must have been > frustrated but maybe they'd have been better off taking their taxes to > a professional to do. I don't think any business unless your an > accountant or really know what your doing, which they didn't, should do > a businesses taxes. Its unfortunate the run around they got, we've all > experienced it in some form or another but I don't think we can blame > the workers on the phone lines they are just doing their jobs. someone > did make a good suggestion if the call line employee is not sure of an > answer don't give it tell them you'll look into it and put them on hold > and check into it, if someone calls 4 or 5 times and tells you they > keep getting conflicting info maybe a manager should be contacted to > verify the info their getting is correct and at this point a name that > they can refer back too. Again the fact they gave up their business > because of a 3500 dollar tax bill instead of going to a professional > like H &R block or any local accountant makes me question their part in > all this. Sometimes taking short cuts costs you more in the long run.
> 46 Ron Romhanyi from Hamilton, ON, Canada writes: Here's a thought, > do what an acquaintance of ours does every year: put all your stuff > into the CRA envelope and drop it in the mail box sans stamp. Postage > is not required for federal mailings. Let them earn their pay. Works > pretty good too. She checks it afterwards and their spot on.
> 47 Smart Aleck from Guelph, ON, Canada writes: The CRA sounds like they > are in cahoots with the student loan folks. We had similar problems > with the CSL program. The funniest thing (although it really pissed me > off at the time) was when one person, I'll keep her name from the > forum, started out in one direction, then did an about face, and didn't > even acknowledge that the change she made was significant. 'schedule 2' > and 'confirmation of enrollment' sure sound different to me. And try > asking for a manager. No wonder their service sucks so bad, no one has > a manager that you can talk to. I think there needs to be more > accountability for what gets said on those lines. Write down names, > exact times and information shared. If you have the exact time and > name, they can occasionally track down the recording. I have taken to > recording the calls myself too. Too much frustration.
> 48 Richard Ball from Charlottetown PEI, Canada writes: I have had > extremely helpful, professional service from the CRA personal Income > Tax people in Charlottetown. Because Charlottetown is small, I am able > to drive out to the tax office and speak to an agent face-to-face. They > have been unfailingly courteous and helpful as I plow through the > various issues that arise.
> 49 I R from Ontario, Canada writes: Unfortunately, many Canadians (Gord > Cee and grealy ted in particular) need to be reminded that civil > servants - and here's a real shocker - are tax paying citizens too! In > the vast majority of cases, government workers do a commendable job of > serving (some) Canadians who (sadly) can be snotty and entitled people > who have a chip on their shoulder the size of Newfoundland and whose > resentment has often nothing whatsoever to do with the person to whom > they are speaking. While I enjoy my work and have been fortunate to > speak to pleasant people 99.9% of the time, I have absolutely no > problem disconnecting a call when the person becomes verbally abusive. > People obviously forget that niceness goes a long way, so let me remind > everyone that unless you'd appreciate someone coming to your work to > curse, yell and threaten you, please don't employ the same tactics > against others.
> 50 Ed Mullen from Halifax, Canada writes: CRA is a painful hang-over > from the 'entitlements' era. Their masters in government got rid of all > the friendly, competent staff and trained low cost staff in baffle-gab. > Then they selected the barracudas from the pool to do collections. They > grab bank accounts from pensioners, close down business accounts, > garnishee wages, regardless of ability to pay. If there's money they > can grab, they are merciless. The best defense is to work for nothing. > Why not, there's nothing left after CRA anyway?
> 51 james m from toronto, Canada writes: Good for the judge! The CRA is > a law unto itself. It's basically a legalized mob, shaking down middle > class Canadians who don't have the means to pay. Note that the judge > strongly recommended that interest charges be waived. And note that CRA > officials declined to comment. I'll bet this couple is still going to > be taken to the cleaners even though it was the CRA that screwed up. We > just have one vote every four years, and after that we're ignored.
> 52 Dan Weagle from Halifax, Canada writes: This story won't come as a > surprise to most who have had to deal with CRA. Like most government / > union workers they are undertrained and/or simply offer horrible > service/ product. Even attempting to document bad service is very > difficult as you aren't allowed to know the name of the service > provider...it must afford them quite the luxary to know that, for the > most part, they aren't held accountable for their jobs. It is highly > unlikely that government will ever rid itself of unions or the union > mentality and even more unlikely that our tax laws will be simplified > from the ridiclous social-engineering dogma it is now. We might as well > get used to it because not even the Supreme Court could make CRA sit up > and take note.
> 53 J Luft from Calgary, Canada writes: Governments often use the big > hammer of their (tax funded) lawyers against individuals. The tactic is > very prevalent in municipal government property tax assessment battles. > They use the money of taxpayers to fight the same taxpayers who are > also often paying for their own lawyers. It is a bullying tactic that > needs to be stopped.
> 54 J Luft from Calgary, Canada writes: To #15 anu bose from ottawa who > says 'The lack of accurate information is a result of the extensive use > of call-centres-a low-paid unskilled form of > employment.'....hmmmm....well, maybe partly but the biggest part of the > reason is that the tax laws of Canada have become so complex due to > their social engineering aspect that they are virtually > incomprehensible. That's something that needs to be tackled.....a > complete rewrite of the income tax laws to bring them down to earth. > I'd suspect the Income Tax Act is bigger than the service manual for > the Space Shuttle.
> 55 a s from ontario, Canada writes: I am a typical Canadian citizen, > that pays my fair share of typical taxes and I am also a public service > employee (not CRA). I resent the comments for post #5 Gord Cee. I am > not lazy, I definitely am not uncaring and how dare you call me dumb, I > am probably more educated than you Mr Cee . Based on my education, I am > certainly underpaid. Please know your facts before you stick your foot > in your mouth. I was not aware it is a crime to be unionized - get your > unions straight, CUPE is not part of the federal government. You ask > anyone that works in a call-centre for the federal government and you > will realized that it is the management of the government at fault > here, not the people that answer the phones. You are given little > training, and you are paid not much more than minimum wage. I do not > get any better service calling CRA than you do, but I understand > completely what is behind that bad service. Is it right? Hell no. > Before you start cutting a whole group of hard working, taxing paying > citizens(just like you), learn to complain to the right person (MP's), > not the front end workers who have to put up with uneducated, loud > mouth people like you.
> 56 Vincent Clement from Windsor, Canada writes: I just had a recent > experience with CRA. In the spring my wife and I received a disability > certificate for my oldest son. It was back dated to 2002, which meant > that we could amend my wife's tax returns for 2002, 2003 and 2004. Of > course, we had to request the amendments in writing and provide them > with a copy of the disability certificate. What a waste of time and > resources. They couldn't automatically process the amendments? So I > filled out the appropriate forms, requested
thank you for taking the time and effort to respond to the weekly Canada Customs and Revenue Agency Story of the Week (CCRA SOTW). It is very much appreciated.
The best way to answer a question such as yours is like this - when people make a comment such as that it is generally a reflection of their deep seated and inner insecurities.
So, best of luck to you and yours and have a great day!
> > 42 Erika Fecteau from Montreal, Canada writes: Great news about the > > ruling. My advice to anyone with a business: hire an accountant to do > > your taxes. The money you spend is worth the peace of mind an > > accountant brings. Not sure why they dropped both businesses either. > > Bit strange, I find...
> > 43 Bella Donna from Vancouver Island, Canada writes: Yesterday I phoned > > CRA's 1-800 line and after thirty minutes of waiting was told to call a > > different 1-800 number. I called that number and after thirty minutes > > of listening to wretched muzak, I was told I needed to call the first > > number again. I was too pissed off to call back and phoned my > > accountant's office instead. The secretary was quickly able to give me > > the information I was looking for. Why couldn't the folks at CRA give > > me the same information? What a huge waste of time. Sigh.
> > 44 Fran Hoffer from Canada writes: Part of the reason the CRA is broken > > is because they create too much nonsensical work for themselves. After > > having lived at the same address for 8 years, I moved 350km for work. I > > deducted the moving expenses (only $600) on my next tax return, which > > was sent from my new address. The CRA sent me a demand for receipts > > (proof) of the moving expenses. If the CRA would waste less time trying > > to deprive honest working citizens out of deductions they are entitled > > to, there would be a lot less overhead and more time to do things > > properly.
> > 45 E MacM from Canada writes: i'm amazed someone would give up a > > private business because of 3500 dollars. I agree they must have been > > frustrated but maybe they'd have been better off taking their taxes to > > a professional to do. I don't think any business unless your an > > accountant or really know what your doing, which they didn't, should do > > a businesses taxes. Its unfortunate the run around they got, we've all > > experienced it in some form or another but I don't think we can blame > > the workers on the phone lines they are just doing their jobs. someone > > did make a good suggestion if the call line employee is not sure of an > > answer don't give it tell them you'll look into it and put them on hold > > and check into it, if someone calls 4 or 5 times and tells you they > > keep getting conflicting info maybe a manager should be contacted to > > verify the info their getting is correct and at this point a name that > > they can refer back too. Again the fact they gave up their business > > because of a 3500 dollar tax bill instead of going to a professional > > like H &R block or any local accountant makes me question their part in > > all this. Sometimes taking short cuts costs you more in the long run.
> > 46 Ron Romhanyi from Hamilton, ON, Canada writes: Here's a thought, > > do what an acquaintance of ours does every year: put all your stuff > > into the CRA envelope and drop it in the mail box sans stamp. Postage > > is not required for federal mailings. Let them earn their pay. Works > > pretty good too. She checks it afterwards and their spot on.
> > 47 Smart Aleck from Guelph, ON, Canada writes: The CRA sounds like they > > are in cahoots with the student loan folks. We had similar problems > > with the CSL program. The funniest thing (although it really pissed me > > off at the time) was when one person, I'll keep her name from the > > forum, started out in one direction, then did an about face, and didn't > > even acknowledge that the change she made was significant. 'schedule 2' > > and 'confirmation of enrollment' sure sound different to me. And try > > asking for a manager. No wonder their service sucks so bad, no one has > > a manager that you can talk to. I think there needs to be more > > accountability for what gets said on those lines. Write down names, > > exact times and information shared. If you have the exact time and > > name, they can occasionally track down the recording. I have taken to > > recording the calls myself too. Too much frustration.
> > 48 Richard Ball from Charlottetown PEI, Canada writes: I have had > > extremely helpful, professional service from the CRA personal Income > > Tax people in Charlottetown. Because Charlottetown is small, I am able > > to drive out to the tax office and speak to an agent face-to-face. They > > have been unfailingly courteous and helpful as I plow through the > > various issues that arise.
> > 49 I R from Ontario, Canada writes: Unfortunately, many Canadians (Gord > > Cee and grealy ted in particular) need to be reminded that civil > > servants - and here's a real shocker - are tax paying citizens too! In > > the vast majority of cases, government workers do a commendable job of > > serving (some) Canadians who (sadly) can be snotty and entitled people > > who have a chip on their shoulder the size of Newfoundland and whose > > resentment has often nothing whatsoever to do with the person to whom > > they are speaking. While I enjoy my work and have been fortunate to > > speak to pleasant people 99.9% of the time, I have absolutely no > > problem disconnecting a call when the person becomes verbally abusive. > > People obviously forget that niceness goes a long way, so let me remind > > everyone that unless you'd appreciate someone coming to your work to > > curse, yell and threaten you, please don't employ the same tactics > > against others.
> > 50 Ed Mullen from Halifax, Canada writes: CRA is a painful hang-over > > from the 'entitlements' era. Their masters in government got rid of all > > the friendly, competent staff and trained low cost staff in baffle-gab. > > Then they selected the barracudas from the pool to do collections. They > > grab bank accounts from pensioners, close down business accounts, > > garnishee wages, regardless of ability to pay. If there's money they > > can grab, they are merciless. The best defense is to work for nothing. > > Why not, there's nothing left after CRA anyway?
> > 51 james m from toronto, Canada writes: Good for the judge! The CRA is > > a law unto itself. It's basically a legalized mob, shaking down middle > > class Canadians who don't have the means to pay. Note that the judge > > strongly recommended that interest charges be waived. And note that CRA > > officials declined to comment. I'll bet this couple is still going to > > be taken to the cleaners even though it was the CRA that screwed up. We > > just have one vote every four years, and after that we're ignored.
> > 52 Dan Weagle from Halifax, Canada writes: This story won't come as a > > surprise to most who have had to deal with CRA. Like most government / > > union workers they are undertrained and/or simply offer horrible > > service/ product. Even attempting to document bad service is very > > difficult as you aren't allowed to know the name of the service > > provider...it must afford them quite the luxary to know that, for the > > most part, they aren't held accountable for their jobs. It is highly > > unlikely that government will ever rid itself of unions or the union > > mentality and even more unlikely that our tax laws will be simplified > > from the ridiclous social-engineering dogma it is now. We might as well > > get used to it because not even the Supreme Court could make CRA sit up > > and take note.
> > 53 J Luft from Calgary, Canada writes: Governments often use the big > > hammer of their (tax funded) lawyers against individuals. The tactic is > > very prevalent in municipal government property tax assessment battles. > > They use the money of taxpayers to fight the same taxpayers who are > > also often paying for their own lawyers. It is a bullying tactic that > > needs to be stopped.
> > 54 J Luft from Calgary, Canada writes: To #15 anu bose from ottawa who > > says 'The lack of accurate information is a result of the extensive use > > of call-centres-a low-paid unskilled form of > > employment.'....hmmmm....well, maybe partly but the biggest part of the > > reason is that the tax laws of Canada have become so complex due to > > their social engineering aspect that they are virtually > > incomprehensible. That's something that needs to be tackled.....a > > complete rewrite of the income tax laws to bring them down to earth. > > I'd suspect the Income Tax Act is bigger than the service manual for > > the Space Shuttle.
> > 55 a s from ontario, Canada writes: I am a typical Canadian citizen, > > that pays my fair share of typical taxes and I am also a public service > > employee (not CRA). I resent the comments for post #5 Gord Cee. I am > > not lazy, I definitely am not uncaring and how dare you call me dumb, I > > am probably more educated than you Mr Cee . Based on my education, I am > > certainly underpaid. Please know your facts before you stick your foot > > in your mouth. I was not aware it is a crime to be unionized - get your > > unions straight, CUPE is not part of the federal government. You ask > > anyone that works in a call-centre for the federal government and you > > will realized that it is the management of the government at fault > > here, not the people that answer the phones. You are given little > > training, and you are paid not much more than minimum wage. I do not > > get any better service calling CRA than you do, but I understand > > completely what is behind that bad service. Is it right? Hell no. > > Before you start cutting a whole group of hard working,
thank you for taking the time and effort to respond to the weekly Canada Customs and Revenue Agency Story of the Week (CCRA SOTW). It is very much appreciated.
The best way to respond to a comment such as yours is like this - as you don't have the maturity or intelligence to respond in an adult manner you make an attempt to bring people down to your low levels in order that you can communicate with them in words that you can more easily understand. Why not try to grow up (and out) and act in a more adult fashion.
I sure hope your kids don't grow up to be just like you - what a shame that would be.
So, best of luck to you and yours and have a great day!
Years ago in the US there was an audit of the IRS and 1/3rd of the questions asked were answered wrong. Keep all reciepts. Record the conversation if you can.
> 42 Erika Fecteau from Montreal, Canada writes: Great news about the > ruling. My advice to anyone with a business: hire an accountant to do > your taxes. The money you spend is worth the peace of mind an > accountant brings. Not sure why they dropped both businesses either. > Bit strange, I find...
> 43 Bella Donna from Vancouver Island, Canada writes: Yesterday I phoned > CRA's 1-800 line and after thirty minutes of waiting was told to call a > different 1-800 number. I called that number and after thirty minutes > of listening to wretched muzak, I was told I needed to call the first > number again. I was too pissed off to call back and phoned my > accountant's office instead. The secretary was quickly able to give me > the information I was looking for. Why couldn't the folks at CRA give > me the same information? What a huge waste of time. Sigh.
> 44 Fran Hoffer from Canada writes: Part of the reason the CRA is broken > is because they create too much nonsensical work for themselves. After > having lived at the same address for 8 years, I moved 350km for work. I > deducted the moving expenses (only $600) on my next tax return, which > was sent from my new address. The CRA sent me a demand for receipts > (proof) of the moving expenses. If the CRA would waste less time trying > to deprive honest working citizens out of deductions they are entitled > to, there would be a lot less overhead and more time to do things > properly.
> 45 E MacM from Canada writes: i'm amazed someone would give up a > private business because of 3500 dollars. I agree they must have been > frustrated but maybe they'd have been better off taking their taxes to > a professional to do. I don't think any business unless your an > accountant or really know what your doing, which they didn't, should do > a businesses taxes. Its unfortunate the run around they got, we've all > experienced it in some form or another but I don't think we can blame > the workers on the phone lines they are just doing their jobs. someone > did make a good suggestion if the call line employee is not sure of an > answer don't give it tell them you'll look into it and put them on hold > and check into it, if someone calls 4 or 5 times and tells you they > keep getting conflicting info maybe a manager should be contacted to > verify the info their getting is correct and at this point a name that > they can refer back too. Again the fact they gave up their business > because of a 3500 dollar tax bill instead of going to a professional > like H &R block or any local accountant makes me question their part in > all this. Sometimes taking short cuts costs you more in the long run.
> 46 Ron Romhanyi from Hamilton, ON, Canada writes: Here's a thought, > do what an acquaintance of ours does every year: put all your stuff > into the CRA envelope and drop it in the mail box sans stamp. Postage > is not required for federal mailings. Let them earn their pay. Works > pretty good too. She checks it afterwards and their spot on.
> 47 Smart Aleck from Guelph, ON, Canada writes: The CRA sounds like they > are in cahoots with the student loan folks. We had similar problems > with the CSL program. The funniest thing (although it really pissed me > off at the time) was when one person, I'll keep her name from the > forum, started out in one direction, then did an about face, and didn't > even acknowledge that the change she made was significant. 'schedule 2' > and 'confirmation of enrollment' sure sound different to me. And try > asking for a manager. No wonder their service sucks so bad, no one has > a manager that you can talk to. I think there needs to be more > accountability for what gets said on those lines. Write down names, > exact times and information shared. If you have the exact time and > name, they can occasionally track down the recording. I have taken to > recording the calls myself too. Too much frustration.
> 48 Richard Ball from Charlottetown PEI, Canada writes: I have had > extremely helpful, professional service from the CRA personal Income > Tax people in Charlottetown. Because Charlottetown is small, I am able > to drive out to the tax office and speak to an agent face-to-face. They > have been unfailingly courteous and helpful as I plow through the > various issues that arise.
> 49 I R from Ontario, Canada writes: Unfortunately, many Canadians (Gord > Cee and grealy ted in particular) need to be reminded that civil > servants - and here's a real shocker - are tax paying citizens too! In > the vast majority of cases, government workers do a commendable job of > serving (some) Canadians who (sadly) can be snotty and entitled people > who have a chip on their shoulder the size of Newfoundland and whose > resentment has often nothing whatsoever to do with the person to whom > they are speaking. While I enjoy my work and have been fortunate to > speak to pleasant people 99.9% of the time, I have absolutely no > problem disconnecting a call when the person becomes verbally abusive. > People obviously forget that niceness goes a long way, so let me remind > everyone that unless you'd appreciate someone coming to your work to > curse, yell and threaten you, please don't employ the same tactics > against others.
> 50 Ed Mullen from Halifax, Canada writes: CRA is a painful hang-over > from the 'entitlements' era. Their masters in government got rid of all > the friendly, competent staff and trained low cost staff in baffle-gab. > Then they selected the barracudas from the pool to do collections. They > grab bank accounts from pensioners, close down business accounts, > garnishee wages, regardless of ability to pay. If there's money they > can grab, they are merciless. The best defense is to work for nothing. > Why not, there's nothing left after CRA anyway?
> 51 james m from toronto, Canada writes: Good for the judge! The CRA is > a law unto itself. It's basically a legalized mob, shaking down middle > class Canadians who don't have the means to pay. Note that the judge > strongly recommended that interest charges be waived. And note that CRA > officials declined to comment. I'll bet this couple is still going to > be taken to the cleaners even though it was the CRA that screwed up. We > just have one vote every four years, and after that we're ignored.
> 52 Dan Weagle from Halifax, Canada writes: This story won't come as a > surprise to most who have had to deal with CRA. Like most government / > union workers they are undertrained and/or simply offer horrible > service/ product. Even attempting to document bad service is very > difficult as you aren't allowed to know the name of the service > provider...it must afford them quite the luxary to know that, for the > most part, they aren't held accountable for their jobs. It is highly > unlikely that government will ever rid itself of unions or the union > mentality and even more unlikely that our tax laws will be simplified > from the ridiclous social-engineering dogma it is now. We might as well > get used to it because not even the Supreme Court could make CRA sit up > and take note.
> 53 J Luft from Calgary, Canada writes: Governments often use the big > hammer of their (tax funded) lawyers against individuals. The tactic is > very prevalent in municipal government property tax assessment battles. > They use the money of taxpayers to fight the same taxpayers who are > also often paying for their own lawyers. It is a bullying tactic that > needs to be stopped.
> 54 J Luft from Calgary, Canada writes: To #15 anu bose from ottawa who > says 'The lack of accurate information is a result of the extensive use > of call-centres-a low-paid unskilled form of > employment.'....hmmmm....well, maybe partly but the biggest part of the > reason is that the tax laws of Canada have become so complex due to > their social engineering aspect that they are virtually > incomprehensible. That's something that needs to be tackled.....a > complete rewrite of the income tax laws to bring them down to earth. > I'd suspect the Income Tax Act is bigger than the service manual for > the Space Shuttle.
> 55 a s from ontario, Canada writes: I am a typical Canadian citizen, > that pays my fair share of typical taxes and I am also a public service > employee (not CRA). I resent the comments for post #5 Gord Cee. I am > not lazy, I definitely am not uncaring and how dare you call me dumb, I > am probably more educated than you Mr Cee . Based on my education, I am > certainly underpaid. Please know your facts before you stick your foot > in your mouth. I was not aware it is a crime to be unionized - get your > unions straight, CUPE is not part of the federal government. You ask > anyone that works in a call-centre for the federal government and you > will realized that it is the management of the government at fault > here, not the people that answer the phones. You are given little > training, and you are paid not much more than minimum wage. I do not > get any better service calling CRA than you do, but I understand > completely what is behind that bad service. Is it right? Hell no. > Before you start cutting a whole group of hard working, taxing paying > citizens(just like you), learn to complain to the right person (MP's), > not the front end workers who have to put up with uneducated, loud > mouth people like you.
> 56 Vincent Clement from Windsor, Canada writes: I just had a recent > experience with CRA. In the spring my wife and I received a disability > certificate for my oldest son. It was back dated to 2002, which meant > that we could amend my wife's tax returns for 2002, 2003 and 2004. Of > course, we had to request the amendments in writing and provide them > with a copy of the disability certificate. What a
I usu can't be bothered to read his stuff because it is lame and off topic most of the time but I wouldn't kf the guy because once in a while he posts some great items.
> 42 Erika Fecteau from Montreal, Canada writes: Great news about the > ruling. My advice to anyone with a business: hire an accountant to do > your taxes. The money you spend is worth the peace of mind an > accountant brings. Not sure why they dropped both businesses either. > Bit strange, I find...
> 43 Bella Donna from Vancouver Island, Canada writes: Yesterday I phoned > CRA's 1-800 line and after thirty minutes of waiting was told to call a > different 1-800 number. I called that number and after thirty minutes > of listening to wretched muzak, I was told I needed to call the first > number again. I was too pissed off to call back and phoned my > accountant's office instead. The secretary was quickly able to give me > the information I was looking for. Why couldn't the folks at CRA give > me the same information? What a huge waste of time. Sigh.
> 44 Fran Hoffer from Canada writes: Part of the reason the CRA is broken > is because they create too much nonsensical work for themselves. After > having lived at the same address for 8 years, I moved 350km for work. I > deducted the moving expenses (only $600) on my next tax return, which > was sent from my new address. The CRA sent me a demand for receipts > (proof) of the moving expenses. If the CRA would waste less time trying > to deprive honest working citizens out of deductions they are entitled > to, there would be a lot less overhead and more time to do things > properly.
> 45 E MacM from Canada writes: i'm amazed someone would give up a > private business because of 3500 dollars. I agree they must have been > frustrated but maybe they'd have been better off taking their taxes to > a professional to do. I don't think any business unless your an > accountant or really know what your doing, which they didn't, should do > a businesses taxes. Its unfortunate the run around they got, we've all > experienced it in some form or another but I don't think we can blame > the workers on the phone lines they are just doing their jobs. someone > did make a good suggestion if the call line employee is not sure of an > answer don't give it tell them you'll look into it and put them on hold > and check into it, if someone calls 4 or 5 times and tells you they > keep getting conflicting info maybe a manager should be contacted to > verify the info their getting is correct and at this point a name that > they can refer back too. Again the fact they gave up their business > because of a 3500 dollar tax bill instead of going to a professional > like H &R block or any local accountant makes me question their part in > all this. Sometimes taking short cuts costs you more in the long run.
> 46 Ron Romhanyi from Hamilton, ON, Canada writes: Here's a thought, > do what an acquaintance of ours does every year: put all your stuff > into the CRA envelope and drop it in the mail box sans stamp. Postage > is not required for federal mailings. Let them earn their pay. Works > pretty good too. She checks it afterwards and their spot on.
> 47 Smart Aleck from Guelph, ON, Canada writes: The CRA sounds like they > are in cahoots with the student loan folks. We had similar problems > with the CSL program. The funniest thing (although it really pissed me > off at the time) was when one person, I'll keep her name from the > forum, started out in one direction, then did an about face, and didn't > even acknowledge that the change she made was significant. 'schedule 2' > and 'confirmation of enrollment' sure sound different to me. And try > asking for a manager. No wonder their service sucks so bad, no one has > a manager that you can talk to. I think there needs to be more > accountability for what gets said on those lines. Write down names, > exact times and information shared. If you have the exact time and > name, they can occasionally track down the recording. I have taken to > recording the calls myself too. Too much frustration.
> 48 Richard Ball from Charlottetown PEI, Canada writes: I have had > extremely helpful, professional service from the CRA personal Income > Tax people in Charlottetown. Because Charlottetown is small, I am able > to drive out to the tax office and speak to an agent face-to-face. They > have been unfailingly courteous and helpful as I plow through the > various issues that arise.
> 49 I R from Ontario, Canada writes: Unfortunately, many Canadians (Gord > Cee and grealy ted in particular) need to be reminded that civil > servants - and here's a real shocker - are tax paying citizens too! In > the vast majority of cases, government workers do a commendable job of > serving (some) Canadians who (sadly) can be snotty and entitled people > who have a chip on their shoulder the size of Newfoundland and whose > resentment has often nothing whatsoever to do with the person to whom > they are speaking. While I enjoy my work and have been fortunate to > speak to pleasant people 99.9% of the time, I have absolutely no > problem disconnecting a call when the person becomes verbally abusive. > People obviously forget that niceness goes a long way, so let me remind > everyone that unless you'd appreciate someone coming to your work to > curse, yell and threaten you, please don't employ the same tactics > against others.
> 50 Ed Mullen from Halifax, Canada writes: CRA is a painful hang-over > from the 'entitlements' era. Their masters in government got rid of all > the friendly, competent staff and trained low cost staff in baffle-gab. > Then they selected the barracudas from the pool to do collections. They > grab bank accounts from pensioners, close down business accounts, > garnishee wages, regardless of ability to pay. If there's money they > can grab, they are merciless. The best defense is to work for nothing. > Why not, there's nothing left after CRA anyway?
> 51 james m from toronto, Canada writes: Good for the judge! The CRA is > a law unto itself. It's basically a legalized mob, shaking down middle > class Canadians who don't have the means to pay. Note that the judge > strongly recommended that interest charges be waived. And note that CRA > officials declined to comment. I'll bet this couple is still going to > be taken to the cleaners even though it was the CRA that screwed up. We > just have one vote every four years, and after that we're ignored.
> 52 Dan Weagle from Halifax, Canada writes: This story won't come as a > surprise to most who have had to deal with CRA. Like most government / > union workers they are undertrained and/or simply offer horrible > service/ product. Even attempting to document bad service is very > difficult as you aren't allowed to know the name of the service > provider...it must afford them quite the luxary to know that, for the > most part, they aren't held accountable for their jobs. It is highly > unlikely that government will ever rid itself of unions or the union > mentality and even more unlikely that our tax laws will be simplified > from the ridiclous social-engineering dogma it is now. We might as well > get used to it because not even the Supreme Court could make CRA sit up > and take note.
> 53 J Luft from Calgary, Canada writes: Governments often use the big > hammer of their (tax funded) lawyers against individuals. The tactic is > very prevalent in municipal government property tax assessment battles. > They use the money of taxpayers to fight the same taxpayers who are > also often paying for their own lawyers. It is a bullying tactic that > needs to be stopped.
> 54 J Luft from Calgary, Canada writes: To #15 anu bose from ottawa who > says 'The lack of accurate information is a result of the extensive use > of call-centres-a low-paid unskilled form of > employment.'....hmmmm....well, maybe partly but the biggest part of the > reason is that the tax laws of Canada have become so complex due to > their social engineering aspect that they are virtually > incomprehensible. That's something that needs to be tackled.....a > complete rewrite of the income tax laws to bring them down to earth. > I'd suspect the Income Tax Act is bigger than the service manual for > the Space Shuttle.
> 55 a s from ontario, Canada writes: I am a typical Canadian citizen, > that pays my fair share of typical taxes and I am also a public service > employee (not CRA). I resent the comments for post #5 Gord Cee. I am > not lazy, I definitely am not uncaring and how dare you call me dumb, I > am probably more educated than you Mr Cee . Based on my education, I am > certainly underpaid. Please know your facts before you stick your foot > in your mouth. I was not aware it is a crime to be unionized - get your > unions straight, CUPE is not part of the federal government. You ask > anyone that works in a call-centre for the federal government and you > will realized that it is the management of the government at fault > here, not the people that answer the phones. You are given little > training, and you are paid not much more than minimum wage. I do not > get any better service calling CRA than you do, but I understand > completely what is behind that bad service. Is it right? Hell no. > Before you start cutting a whole group of hard working, taxing paying > citizens(just like you), learn to complain to the right person (MP's), > not the front end workers who have to put up with uneducated, loud > mouth people like you.
> 56 Vincent Clement from Windsor, Canada writes: I just had a recent > experience with CRA. In the spring my wife and I received a disability > certificate for my oldest son. It was back dated to 2002, which meant > that we could amend my wife's tax returns for 2002, 2003 and 2004. Of > course, we had to request the amendments in writing and provide them > with a copy of the disability certificate. What a waste of time and > resources. They couldn't automatically process the amendments? So I > filled out the appropriate forms, requested
