NewsRob OSS

[Mariano Kamp]

Fellow NewsRob users.

I reflected over what we discussed here over the last weeks and the substantial pledges of support from you guys. I am still not 100% sold on the OSS idea. However taking into account that in my thinking in NewsRob's future most work would come from you and very little from myself, it seems to be only fair.

So I am proposing a three month trial where *we* see how it is working together and if something comes out of it. After this period *I* decide if it is worth pursuing and turning NewsRob into an OSS app for real. So if we want to keep going together or if we would revert back to what we had.

In the case it doesn't work out as expected, I would like the rollback to be as much as possible as if this whole thing never happened. So, it would mean that no contributed code will be used in NewsRob for example. But it will not be 100% clean. If you worked as a mailing list moderator, created code, created a Wiki or in any other way spent time, this may likely be lost for you.

In order not to complicate things for me too much, if you shared an idea I still may use it afterwards, non-exclusively. 

Just if there is any doubt, there is no payment of any kind involved.

I will also make the NewsRob code available to some of you and will invite you to a private (for now) mailing list. If we rollback after 3 months you cannot use any of what you've gathered during that time. This includes what you learn from code or the messages, technical and commercial.

This is my proposal. Let me know if you have ideas to enhance it. If we're all good with this, I will ask you to send me a mail with a link to this specific thread, but please don't send me this mail just yet.

Looking forward to this, Mariano

[Mark Otway]

Great to hear it.

I guess one way to minimise your risk would be to work with a select few on building the sync engine plugin api, and then allow people to build their own engine independently. That way you keep the rights to NR with the IP for the killer features you've developed, but others can contribute under whatever revenue model they feel happy with - like the Tasker/Locale model. That way everyone wins.

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[Mariano Kamp]

Very clever. Didn't think about it.

[Travis Tabbal]

So, for the trial period, the app would remain closed source with contributing developers involved, with a promise to roll back contributed changes if an OSS approach is not taken? That sounds like a reasonable approach for a trial run to me.

In the event of a rollback, I'm sure there will be some interest in going another route if you decide not to continue NR Mariano. I can certainly see not using any NR code in any other project, that's fair, but enforcing "If we rollback after 3 months you cannot use any of what you've gathered during that time. This includes what you learn from code or the messages, technical and commercial." could prove problematic. Mark's suggestion of separating out new sync targets might be useful in such a case. The "internal" team would produce an interface, that would be published under an OSS license, just the interface class itself, not any implementing code. Then any work done on that side of the fence could remain OSS in the event of a rollback and allow another project to implement the other side of the interface should you decide NR will not continue under that plan.

--

[Jay Carlson]

On May 20, 2013, at 10:18 AM, Mariano Kamp wrote:

> I will also make the NewsRob code available to some of you and will invite you to a private (for now) mailing list. If we rollback after 3 months you cannot use any of what you've gathered during that time. This includes what you learn from code or the messages, technical and commercial.

Many NDAs and non-compete agreements have sunset clauses on techniques, like "three years". In some jurisdictions, overly-broad and overly-long NDAs/non-competes are not valid.

I know a bunch of things about syncing in general, but with a sunset clause I know I can still work in the field later without a question of whether I learned a technique before or after exposure to a trade secret.

Jay

[Jens K. Loewe]

> This is my proposal. Let me know if you have ideas to enhance it.

I like the idea. :-)

[bryn...@gmail.com]

Anything that would allow for a continued use of NewsRob is good news. But how will this suggestion work? What is the goal? Which path should be taken?

[Mariano Kamp]

On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 5:33 PM, Travis Tabbal <tra...@tabbal.net> wrote:

So, for the trial period, the app would remain closed source with contributing developers involved, with a promise to roll back contributed changes if an OSS approach is not taken?

Yes.

 

In the event of a rollback, I'm sure there will be some interest in going another route if you decide not to continue NR Mariano. I can certainly see not using any NR code in any other project, that's fair, but enforcing "If we rollback after 3 months you cannot use any of what you've gathered during that time. This includes what you learn from code or the messages, technical and commercial." could prove problematic.

What I don't want is to find NewsRob code someplace else after the rollback. I probably not be able to enforce it anyway, but I'd like to have clear language so that there is no doubt what is meant. Having said that, I agree that this could be problematic.

So for the trial period and a possible rollback what I don't want is code or anything else from the repository to be used outside of NewsRob. I also may want to discuss commercials etc. on the mailing list and would like to keep that close to my chest. 

Lastly I don't want to go through each file in the repository and see if it can be exposed. 

So maybe (a) I shouldn't talk about commercials or anything else in that respect for the time being. (b) Give access to the repository just person by person, so that when something is uncovered which I have taken out, it may still be contained. (c) Change the following sentence from:

"If we rollback after 3 months you cannot use any of what you've gathered during that time. This includes what you learn from code or the messages, technical and commercial."

to: 

"If we rollback after 3 months you cannot use any of what has been in the repository before the trial."

We should be good then, correct?

 

Mark's suggestion of separating out new sync targets might be useful in such a case. The "internal" team would produce an interface, that would be published under an OSS license, just the interface class itself, not any implementing code. Then any work done on that side of the fence could remain OSS in the event of a rollback and allow another project to implement the other side of the interface should you decide NR will not continue under that plan. 

Well, given that it took me a week to find time to address the little issue from above and looking at the current workload at my dayjob, I think it's unrealistic for me to really work on NewsRob in the near future. 

So let's keep the option from above as a fallback when I want to do the rollback, but I would take the risk to expose more of NewsRob to some trusted users/developer than the minium necessary.

 

[Mariano Kamp]

Ok, I can see that. It was too wide ranging.

[Mariano Kamp]

That is for us to figure out together then.

My understanding is that the new NewsRob developers would add more backends as the first action. And so far I gather that Travis will shape the discussion and activities.

--

[Mariano Kamp]

Rewritten taking your comments into account:

Fellow NewsRob users.

I reflected over what we discussed here over the last weeks and the substantial pledges of support from you guys. I am still not 100% sold on the OSS idea. However taking into account that in my thinking in NewsRob's future most work would come from you and very little from myself, it seems to be only fair.

So I am proposing a three month trial where *we* see how it is working together and if something comes out of it. After this period *I* decide if it is worth pursuing and turning NewsRob into an OSS app for real. So if we want to keep going together or if we would revert back to what we had.

In the case it doesn't work out as expected, I would like the rollback to be as much as possible as if this whole thing never happened. So, it would mean that no contributed code will be used in NewsRob for example. But it will not be 100% clean. If you worked as a mailing list moderator, created code, created a Wiki or in any other way spent time, this may likely be lost for you.

In order not to complicate things for me too much, if you shared an idea I still may use it afterwards, non-exclusively. 

Just if there is any doubt, there is no payment of any kind involved.

I will also make the NewsRob code available to some of you and will invite you to a private (for now) mailing list. If we rollback after 3 months you cannot use or publish any of what has been in the repository before the trial.

This is my proposal. Let me know if you have ideas to enhance it. If we're all good with this, I will ask you to send me a mail with a link to this specific thread, but please don't send me this mail just yet.

Looking forward to this, Mariano

----

So if you want to have access to the developers mailing list, please send me a mail linking to this message and stating that you agree with the content.

We'll discuss the rest on the newsrob-developers mailing list.

[Mariano Kamp]

You can refer to this link in your message:
https://groups.google.com/group/newsrob/msg/7d0b368fc3842d84

On May 26, 4:35 pm, Mariano Kamp <mariano.k...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Rewritten taking your comments into account:
>
> Fellow NewsRob users.
>
> I reflected over what we discussed here over the last weeks and the
> substantial pledges of support from you guys. I am still not 100% sold on
> the OSS idea. However taking into account that in my thinking in NewsRob's
> future most work would come from you and very little from myself, it seems
> to be only fair.
>
> So I am proposing a three month trial where *we* see how it is working
> together and if something comes out of it. After this period *I* decide if
> it is worth pursuing and turning NewsRob into an OSS app for real. So if we
> want to keep going together or if we would revert back to what we had.
>
> In the case it doesn't work out as expected, I would like the rollback to
> be as much as possible as if this whole thing never happened. So, it would
> mean that no contributed code will be used in NewsRob for example. But it
> will not be 100% clean. If you worked as a mailing list moderator, created
> code, created a Wiki or in any other way spent time, this may likely be
> lost for you.
> In order not to complicate things for me too much, if you shared an idea I
> still may use it afterwards, non-exclusively.
>
> Just if there is any doubt, there is no payment of any kind involved.
>
> I will also make the NewsRob code available to some of you and will invite

> you to a private (for now) mailing list. *If we rollback after 3 months you

> cannot use or publish any of what has been in the repository before the

> trial.*

>
> This is my proposal. Let me know if you have ideas to enhance it. If we're
> all good with this, I will ask you to send me a mail with a link to this
> specific thread, but please don't send me this mail just yet.
>
> Looking forward to this, Mariano
> ----
>
> So if you want to have access to the developers mailing list, please send
> me a mail linking to this message and stating that you agree with the
> content.
>
> We'll discuss the rest on the newsrob-developers mailing list.
>

> On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 4:32 PM, Mariano Kamp <mariano.k...@gmail.com>wrote:> That is for us to figure out together then.

>
> > My understanding is that the new NewsRob developers would add more
> > backends as the first action. And so far I gather that Travis will shape
> > the discussion and activities.
>

[Mark Otway]

Can I just say that this is a brave step, but I really appreciate it, Mariano, as losing Newsrob would massively diminish my smartphone experience. Thanks for doing it!

[Mariano Kamp]

There is a fine line between being brave and being stupid ;) Only time will tell.

But I am also a NewsRob user and would love to see more active development ;)

[Travis Tabbal]

On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 8:29 AM, Mariano Kamp <marian...@gmail.com> wrote:

 

What I don't want is to find NewsRob code someplace else after the rollback. I probably not be able to enforce it anyway, but I'd like to have clear language so that there is no doubt what is meant. Having said that, I agree that this could be problematic.

I can certainly see that. I have no problem agreeing that any code I might be given access to will remain your property and not be shared or used in any other project in the event of a rollback.

So for the trial period and a possible rollback what I don't want is code or anything else from the repository to be used outside of NewsRob. I also may want to discuss commercials etc. on the mailing list and would like to keep that close to my chest. 

Lastly I don't want to go through each file in the repository and see if it can be exposed. 

So maybe (a) I shouldn't talk about commercials or anything else in that respect for the time being. (b) Give access to the repository just person by person, so that when something is uncovered which I have taken out, it may still be contained. (c) Change the following sentence from:

"If we rollback after 3 months you cannot use any of what you've gathered during that time. This includes what you learn from code or the messages, technical and commercial."

to: 

"If we rollback after 3 months you cannot use any of what has been in the repository before the trial."

We should be good then, correct?

Agreed. :)

 

Hopefully we can get things going. We have just over a month. :) I know you're a busy guy Mariano, no complaints here. Thanks for being willing to consider this path.

[Mariano Kamp]

On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 5:49 PM, Travis Tabbal <tra...@tabbal.net> wrote:

Hopefully we can get things going. We have just over a month. :) I know you're a busy guy Mariano, no complaints here

Hendrik, also joint, so it's three members now including me ;) I posted two topics, one on how to move the code to github and one on how to abstract the backend. Please have a look.

[Wilhelm Fitzpatrick]

Hello Mariano. I'm a professional Android develop (I work for HTC on the backup application for the HTC One) and a very enthusiastic user of NewRob, and would love to contribute to its future. If you are still looking for people to participate in the pilot project, please let me know.

-wilhelm

[Mariano Kamp]

Yes, Wilhelm. 

That sounds great. We would be happy to have you. 

Could you please confirm that you are ok with the "rules" I outlined here? http://groups.google.com/group/newsrob/browse_thread/thread/4859ebe498040e53/3299a1db0115576d?hl=en_US#3299a1db0115576d

On Tuesday, May 28, 2013, Wilhelm Fitzpatrick wrote:

Hello Mariano. I'm a professional Android develop (I work for HTC on the backup application for the HTC One) and a very enthusiastic user of NewRob, and would love to contribute to its future. If you are still looking for people to participate in the pilot project, please let me know.

-wilhelm

--

[Mark Otway]

Btw, let me know when you have something you need testing. I won't join the Dev list, but happy to put in some QA hours as appropriate, to help shake out those int/long overflow errors. ;-)

[Mariano Kamp]

Sounds good, but why don't you want to join the developer list?

[Mark Otway]

Because I'm not an android developer and don't have any time to contribute code at the moment.... :-(

[Wilhelm Fitzpatrick]

Yes, I'm okay with the conditions you have outlined.

-wilhelm

[Mariano Kamp]

We will also be talking and exchanging ideas, discussing what backends to use etc. ;)

[Henrik Heimbuerger]

I loves me a dedicated tester to hand off testing tasks to. :) Come join us, Mark!

Henrik Heimbuerger
http://henrik.heimbuerger.de/
https://twitter.com/hheimbuerger

[Madox]

I'm happy to help as a tester if you'll take me but I'll admit I'll be too busy to contribute code.

On Wednesday, 29 May 2013 17:26:15 UTC+10, Mariano Kamp wrote:

We will also be talking and exchanging ideas, discussing what backends to use etc. ;)

On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 9:05 AM, Mark Otway <ma...@otway.com> wrote:

Because I'm not an android developer and don't have any time to contribute code at the moment.... :-(

On 29 May 2013 07:55, "Mariano Kamp" <marian...@gmail.com> wrote:

Sounds good, but why don't you want to join the developer list?

On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 7:24 AM, Mark Otway <ma...@otway.com> wrote:

Btw, let me know when you have something you need testing. I won't join the Dev list, but happy to put in some QA hours as appropriate, to help shake out those int/long overflow errors. ;-)

On 29 May 2013 06:08, "Mariano Kamp" <marian...@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes, Wilhelm. 

That sounds great. We would be happy to have you. 

Could you please confirm that you are ok with the "rules" I outlined here? http://groups.google.com/group/newsrob/browse_thread/thread/4859ebe498040e53/3299a1db0115576d?hl=en_US#3299a1db0115576d

On Tuesday, May 28, 2013, Wilhelm Fitzpatrick wrote:

Hello Mariano. I'm a professional Android develop (I work for HTC on the backup application for the HTC One) and a very enthusiastic user of NewRob, and would love to contribute to its future. If you are still looking for people to participate in the pilot project, please let me know.

-wilhelm

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[Mariano Kamp]

Joining is no commitment to contribute code. 

Could you please confirm that you're ok with the conditions I outlined:  http://groups.google.com/group/newsrob/browse_thread/thread/4859ebe498040e53/3299a1db0115576d?hl=en_US#3299a1db0115576d

[Madox]

Yes I agree, and that link you post is slightly broken :)

[Andrew Vevers]

Mariano

Although I am not an Android dev, I am willing to assist with testing if there are any opportunities.

Andrew

[Mariano Kamp]

Are you ok with what I wrote here: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/newsrob/SFnr5JgEDlM/hC2Ew482C30J

Could you please confirm that?

[Andrew Vevers]

Yes I am fine with that Mariano.