Future of NewsRob

[Mariano Kamp]

The really long time users of NewsRob might remember that I released NewsRob a year ago. I postponed the initial attempt to offer a paid version due to Google not allowing non-US/UK developers to offer paid apps at the time. 

Since then I have been asked often what the future of NewsRob is? Will there be a paid version, an ad based version, an OSS version? The end of NewsRob? Do I accept donations?

I was always answering that I will think about it at the end of 2009. I did and I also talked to my tax counselor what my options are.

I started with NewsRob at the end of 2008 and even though it consumed almost all of my available time in 2009 it was still mostly a pleasant experience to work on NewsRob. Hence I want to continue doing so. I am thinking about offering it in two versions though: an ad-based version and a paid version. 

The ad-based version will contain a little less functionality than the paid version, but will also not be a crippled. My current way of thinking is that there will be no ads in the article detail view, but only on the list screens. I will start a separate discussion regarding this topic and hope for your participation in that discussion as well. 

The paid version, NewsRob Pro(?), will be ad-free and contain a little bit more functionality. However the only functionality that I will pull from the current version is the Locale integration. With Locale now being a paid app I think that should be fine. Other than that I plan to leave the free version pretty much like it is today and will continue to add to it (subscribe, unsubscribe, more https, UI changes, ...).

There will be new functionality available only in the paid version. Candidates to be added over the next releases are: Widgets, "share with note", "note in reader", subscribing to notes and shared items in general. The latter should not be confused with "my recently shared", which will also stay in the free version.  

I am not sure yet for how much I will offer the paid version, but I can definitively say it will not be $0.99. Currently I am more thinking along the lines of $4.99, $7.99 or $9.99. Maybe I will do an introductory offer with a slight discount, so that the current NewsRob users get some kind of a loyalty discount. 

This will not happen over night. If I go through with it there is a lot of infrastructure/code to change in order to make available two versions as the Android SDK makes this very complicated.

Of course, these are only my current thoughts and I might change my mind at any time ;-) I post this here, because over the past year your input was very valuable to me and it help enormously to improve NewsRob. So please let me know what you think.

In the same spirit, I'd like to offer you the paid version for free. Unfortunately this doesn't seem to be possible with the Android Market. If I would refund you a purchase then the app will be uninstalled also. If I sent you an apk by mail then you will not receive updates over the Market.

If you have a good idea, let me know. Otherwise I propose the following:

You send me a mail from the account that you use to post here and refer to your purchase (checkout order number) and any discussion on this mailing list or a blog entry (url), where you participated before today. I will then send you the money back by PayPal, including the 30% cut that Google collects for the telcos.

Cheers,

Mariano

[Mark Otway]

Mariano,

That all sounds excellent, and while I appreciate the recognition you're trying to give to loyal users, personally I would just go for the paid/pro and not refund existing users. Why? Well, newsrob is a fantastic app, and well worth the £5 or so you're talking about. I use NR *every* day, and more than any other app on Android (with the possible exception of Gmail and Facebook). It's actually the app that 'makes' android for me, from the point of view of commuting and the web, as it allows me to read all the content I need offline.

I wouldn't accept any refund; for an app of this quality it's a small price to pay and worth every penny - as a dev myself I know what goes into this sort of project. What you could do is (if it's technically possible) is give pro users extra votes on uservoice, so that those who pay can shape the development to suit them best.

Out of interest, would you be able to make the free version store it's settings, configuration and cache under a different namespace? Then I could ditch Greed permanently and use NR pro for my work feeds, and install NR free alongside it for my personal Google reader account. ;-)

But in summary, go for it. I've got my cash waiting for you.... :-)

Mark

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[Mariano Kamp]

That all sounds excellent, and while I appreciate the recognition you're trying to give to loyal users, personally I would just go for the paid/pro and not refund existing users.

Well, I try to show my actual appreciation by listening to you guys, but this refund is a gesture. I usually don't have or at least don't take the time to give enough credit here or show my appreciation. But I am very appreciative of all the input and encouragement I get from this group.

And I don't take it at all as granted. I know this is the exception, not the norm.

To illustrate: I bought Twitdroid Pro. It at least twice seems to have lost my twitter accounts and also every time I turn around there is a new update bugging me to be installed. Those two things are enough that I should check if they have a mailing list or something like that and then engage with them.

But there is so much other stuff going on in my life so that it seems I can't spare the time to do so. And I am sure that this is a situation many you are in too. Hence I appreciate that you guys still give me feedback.

Why? Well, newsrob is a fantastic app, and well worth the £5 or so you're talking about. I use NR *every* day, and more than any other app on Android (with the possible exception of Gmail and Facebook). It's actually the app that 'makes' android for me, from the point of view of commuting and the web, as it allows me to read all the content I need offline.

Thanks. I like that very much. Btw. of course I am biased, but it is the same for me. 

When I heard that Android will support background operations I thought immediately of NewsRob, as I was really tired baby sitting the download process of my iPhone Google Reader client.

I wouldn't accept any refund; for an app of this quality it's a small price to pay and worth every penny - as a dev myself I know what goes into this sort of project.

Thanks.

What you could do is (if it's technically possible) is give pro users extra votes on uservoice, so that those who pay can shape the development to suit them best.

 I just checked the settings of uservoice. I don't think that this is possible, but I get the drift.

Out of interest, would you be able to make the free version store it's settings, configuration and cache under a different namespace? Then I could ditch Greed permanently and use NR pro for my work feeds, and install NR free alongside it for my personal Google reader account. ;-)

I actually thought about exactly your situation when considering the two-apps-approach ;-) Settings would be in a different name space. But when trying this out I got an error message that complained about content providers colliding etc.

But it's very early and I am pretty sure this should work eventually. Maybe not in the first release, but soon after.

But in summary, go for it. I've got my cash waiting for you.... :-)

Sounds good. Even though I feel that what I outlined is sane and appropriate I still was a bit nervous what the reactions would be. So I am glad your's is positive. 

Cheers,

Mariano

[Mark Otway]

> Sounds good. Even though I feel that what I outlined is sane and appropriate
> I still was a bit nervous what the reactions would be. So I am glad your's
> is positive.

I think the main thing to remember is that in the scheme of owning an
Android phone, an app as good as newsrob costing $7.99 (or less) is a
trivial expense.

Ironically, though, I think the guys at Locale have got it totally
wrong. Whilst Locale is good, there's plenty of other apps (power
manager, wifi/location managers, etc) which can give the same
functionality. And the new paid version is in many ways worse than the
free beta. I bought it at first, and was disappointed with the battery
usage, notification thing, and a few other changes they made. So the
main thing you need to do is make sure you get the pro version right.

PS: Suggestions of things which could be chopped out of the main
version to 'cut down' the ad-sponsored version:

1. Locale hooks
2. Reduce the max number of articles to sync to, say, 200.
3. Disable the GWT translator. This seems to cause you a lot of
support issues so make sure people are compensating for this with the
full version.

I'd also consider 'holding back' killer features like the 'share with
comment' etc so that when you release Pro, those who buy it like
myself get a warm fuzzy feeling inside from the extra features they're
getting.

BTW, you mention Twidroid - have you tried Seesmic? It's awesome. I
switched yesterday, and don't think I'll go back...

[David Glasser]

Count me as another person more than happy to pay for a great apparently like NewsRob.

I think the only thing to really worry about are folks in regions where paid apps aren't supported. Hopefully they can use the ad version instead?

--dave

On Jan 9, 2010 8:56 AM, "Mark Otway" <ma...@otway.com> wrote:

> Sounds good. Even though I feel that what I outlined is sane and appropriate > I still was a bit n...

I think the main thing to remember is that in the scheme of owning an
Android phone, an app as good as newsrob costing $7.99 (or less) is a
trivial expense.

Ironically, though, I think the guys at Locale have got it totally
wrong. Whilst Locale is good, there's plenty of other apps (power
manager, wifi/location managers, etc) which can give the same
functionality. And the new paid version is in many ways worse than the
free beta. I bought it at first, and was disappointed with the battery
usage, notification thing, and a few other changes they made. So the
main thing you need to do is make sure you get the pro version right.

PS: Suggestions of things which could be chopped out of the main
version to 'cut down' the ad-sponsored version:

1. Locale hooks
2. Reduce the max number of articles to sync to, say, 200.
3. Disable the GWT translator. This seems to cause you a lot of
support issues so make sure people are compensating for this with the
full version.

I'd also consider 'holding back' killer features like the 'share with
comment' etc so that when you release Pro, those who buy it like
myself get a warm fuzzy feeling inside from the extra features they're
getting.

BTW, you mention Twidroid - have you tried Seesmic? It's awesome. I
switched yesterday, and don't think I'll go back...

[Matthias Nitschke]

I absolutely agree with the functional scale down Mark is proposing for the free version. This would definately drive RSS news junkies like me to buy and appreciate the pro version.

Seems that the core of us here is on the same page... cool. Go for it Mariano.

Matthias

On 9 Jan 2010 14:56, "Mark Otway" <ma...@otway.com> wrote:

> Sounds good. Even though I feel that what I outlined is sane and appropriate > I still was a bit n...

I think the main thing to remember is that in the scheme of owning an
Android phone, an app as good as newsrob costing $7.99 (or less) is a
trivial expense.

Ironically, though, I think the guys at Locale have got it totally
wrong. Whilst Locale is good, there's plenty of other apps (power
manager, wifi/location managers, etc) which can give the same
functionality. And the new paid version is in many ways worse than the
free beta. I bought it at first, and was disappointed with the battery
usage, notification thing, and a few other changes they made. So the
main thing you need to do is make sure you get the pro version right.

PS: Suggestions of things which could be chopped out of the main
version to 'cut down' the ad-sponsored version:

1. Locale hooks
2. Reduce the max number of articles to sync to, say, 200.
3. Disable the GWT translator. This seems to cause you a lot of
support issues so make sure people are compensating for this with the
full version.

I'd also consider 'holding back' killer features like the 'share with
comment' etc so that when you release Pro, those who buy it like
myself get a warm fuzzy feeling inside from the extra features they're
getting.

BTW, you mention Twidroid - have you tried Seesmic? It's awesome. I
switched yesterday, and don't think I'll go back...

[Matthias Nitschke]

For the regios w/o access to paid apps, are there other market style apps as SAM or so a solution?

Matthias

On 9 Jan 2010 16:24, "David Glasser" <gla...@davidglasser.net> wrote:

Count me as another person more than happy to pay for a great apparently like NewsRob.

I think the only thing to really worry about are folks in regions where paid apps aren't supported. Hopefully they can use the ad version instead?

--dave

On Jan 9, 2010 8:56 AM, "Mark Otway" <ma...@otway.com> wrote:

> Sounds good. Even though I feel that what I outlined is sane and appropriate > I still was a bit n...

> > I think the main thing to remember is that in the scheme of owning an > Android phone, an app a...

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> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "NewsRob User Group" gr...

[Staber, Patrick]

Mario,

I can't say that I've contributed at all to the development other than testing a beta. But I have greatly enjoyed all the conversations about the development. I'm amazed at the engagement you have with all the posters. I wish more developers took your approach.

As far as a paid app I say go for it. I've been wanting to donate for a while so I'm definitely someone that would pay for the app.

Newsrob is the only app I use everyday. I've only been on Android for a few months and came from a BlackBerry. Viigo was an app I didn't think I could replace and almost stayed with BlackBerry just to have it. I can now say that Newsrob is a much better RSS reader and I couldn't go back to Viigo.

As far as differences between the free and paid versions. All the suggestions have been good. I would just chime in and say that I agree with limiting the free app to make people that upgrade feel good about what they are getting. Also, as far as pricing. I'm not a developer but from a user standpoint I can say that at higher pricing it scares users away. I don't know what the revenue difference is between a paid and ad supported version. What makes the developer more money in the long run? I agree $.99 is too low but $7.99 or $9.99 might be to high. When I hit the market I see Google pushing an RSS feeder I believe called Feedr for $.99. Never used it but could Newsrob also be the reader Google pushes if it is at $9.99. I would say $4.99 seems like a good starting point.
Another thought I have is could you have a paid app with ads only in the list view and the free version has ads everywhere. Would that make you more money?  Basically I would just like to see you get the most money you can from an app that I see as being so valuable.

Thanks so much for all your hardwork.

Pat

[Lauren Weinstein]

There is a danger in pricing such an app too high (and I would put anything
over say US $6 in that category for this kind of app. Apps that have
a significant probability of being supersceded by official versions
(e.g. from Google) are most at risk of high pricing. It can be argued
that the price can always be lowered later -- but this carries its own
risks as well. Bottom line is that pricing of such apps shouldn't
be done on an ad hoc basis if possible.

--Lauren--

> newsrob+u...@googlegroups.com<newsrob%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>

[Henrik Heimbuerger]

On Sat, Jan 9, 2010 at 2:03 PM, Mark Otway <ma...@otway.com> wrote:

Mariano,

That all sounds excellent, and while I appreciate the recognition you're trying to give to loyal users, personally I would just go for the paid/pro and not refund existing users. Why? Well, newsrob is a fantastic app, and well worth the £5 or so you're talking about. I use NR *every* day, and more than any other app on Android (with the possible exception of Gmail and Facebook). It's actually the app that 'makes' android for me, from the point of view of commuting and the web, as it allows me to read all the content I need offline.

I wouldn't accept any refund; for an app of this quality it's a small price to pay and worth every penny - as a dev myself I know what goes into this sort of project. What you could do is (if it's technically possible) is give pro users extra votes on uservoice, so that those who pay can shape the development to suit them best.

I'm with everything Mark said there. NR definitely is the RSS reader I have for years been waiting for. In fact, NR *made* me start reading RSS feeds on a regular basis -- the whole concept of RSS just didn't have the workflow I wanted and needed beforehand.
I wouldn't mind to pay of price of up to $10 and beyond personally (although I do think everything above $5 could be hard to sell -- not because it isn't worth it, but because it's too far above the common price of Android apps). I think the refund for veteran users is a good idea and makes sense, although -- like Mark -- I personally wouldn't want to use it.

[Mariano Kamp]

PS: Suggestions of things which could be chopped out of the main

version to 'cut down' the ad-sponsored version:

1. Locale hooks
2. Reduce the max number of articles to sync to, say, 200.
3. Disable the GWT translator. This seems to cause you a lot of
support issues so make sure people are compensating for this with the
full version.

Yes, Locale will be out. 

With the new sync type (unread only) the capacity doesn't matter that much anymore and I don't really want to pull something from the free version. I even want to continue adding to it.

I will give the GWT thing a thought, because it really does add a bit of support work.

 

I'd also consider 'holding back' killer features like the 'share with
comment' etc so that when you release Pro, those who buy it like
myself get a warm fuzzy feeling inside from the extra features they're
getting.

I will do that. 

 

BTW, you mention Twidroid - have you tried Seesmic? It's awesome. I
switched yesterday, and don't think I'll go back...

Yes, I now use Seesmic, even though I paid for Twitdroid Pro and can't have both my twitter accounts (mkamp, newsrob) in Seesmic. It just works out of the box and is very simple and elegant.

[Mariano Kamp]

Hi Dave. 

Count me as another person more than happy to pay for a great apparently like NewsRob.

Thanks.

I think the only thing to really worry about are folks in regions where paid apps aren't supported. Hopefully they can use the ad version instead?

It's very sad that you have to consider stuff like this on the Android platform ;-(

But yes, they can. And as I said before the ad version will be pretty much what NewsRob is today, except that the Locale integration will be missing and the ads of course.

I will also not turn on copy protection for the paid app, because the Android platform's protection scheme seems to be keeping more honest users out than people who want to pirate it. Of course, that doesn't mean that I want to encourage anybody from pirating the paid version.

[Mariano Kamp]

Hi Matthias. 

Seems that the core of us here is on the same page... cool. Go for it Mariano.

Thanks for the encouragement. 

One more thing regarding the functional scale down: The difference between free and paid should not be a 100% based on features. It is also a way to show appreciation for the work that went in it.

[Mariano Kamp]

I listed NewsRob in about 5 different alternative app stores. Each and every one needs its own login, own descriptions etc. and needs to be maintained for every release. Altogether they make less than 1% (one percent!) of the NewsRob downloads though.

I currently (half assed) keep my app there as a customer service, but if one of those will leave the other app stores behind, I will drop the other ones. 

It is still important, because devices, like the Archos don't come with the Android Market. And also it would be good for the platform if there would be a better app store than the Android Market.

But to maintain a paid version there for maybe 20€ a year is just not worth the effort.

[Mariano Kamp]

Patrick.

I can't say that I've contributed at all to the development other than testing a beta.

One thing that is missing from NewsRob are automated tests. That really hurts my developer pride, but also makes me anxious before releasing a new version of the app. Even though I am disciplined in testing the stuff that I changed there is just so many things can break besides that. And all the different devices and OS versions make this re-testing even harder. 

And even if the bug that I get reports of later on are easy to fix and not fatal, I would still need to issue an update which then needs to annoy the 40.000 people that didn't even feel that something was wrong.

Long story short, you guys testing reduces my stress level enormously. Thanks.

 

Btw. I have two bugs in the current version that I will fix after answering this mails and then have to issue an update ;-( 

But I have greatly enjoyed all the conversations about the development. I'm amazed at the engagement you have with all the posters. I wish more developers took your approach.

It's a two way street. I get something back too. But thanks for recognizing it.

 

Newsrob is the only app I use everyday. I've only been on Android for a few months and came from a BlackBerry. Viigo was an app I didn't think I could replace and almost stayed with BlackBerry just to have it. I can now say that Newsrob is a much better RSS reader and I couldn't go back to Viigo.

It has been Greed in the beginning of 2009, but meanwhile Viigo is the one app that comes up in the Android Market comments regularly. They seem to have a very loyal following.

Apart from that I subscribe to the same philosophy regarding the one killer app on the phone. 

As far as differences between the free and paid versions. All the suggestions have been good. I would just chime in and say that I agree with limiting the free app to make people that upgrade feel good about what they are getting. Also, as far as pricing. I'm not a developer but from a user standpoint I can say that at higher pricing it scares users away.

Well, I hope they are scared to the free version then.

A small price also will lead to some users not taking the app seriously too. I had regular comments on the Market and on twitter, that if I would add this or that feature I could charge for the app, where I was under the impression that I could've start charging for NewsRob a long time ago, but I considered it too distracting at the time.

I don't know what the revenue difference is between a paid and ad supported version. What makes the developer more money in the long run?

Hard to say. My impression is that there is nobody really earning money in the Android Market. At least not when you want to build a sustainable business model, so that the developer could do this fulltime.

The ad version has the advantage of a pay-as-you-go approach. No upfront investment on the part of the user and the people who use the app more than others "pay" more than others.

 

I agree $.99 is too low but $7.99 or $9.99 might be to high. When I hit the market I see Google pushing an RSS feeder I believe called Feedr for $.99.

And even though it is featured prominently in the Android Market for half a year now it doesn't seem to translate to good sales numbers. Look at the download category 5,000 - 10,000. Consider that those that tried it and refunded in the first 24h are counted too. Let's shoot high and assume he sold 7,500 licenses. After Google's cut that would translate to $5,250 before taxes. 

This way will never get better apps in the Android Market. More about that in my next reply (to Lauren). 

Never used it but could Newsrob also be the reader Google pushes if it is at $9.99. I would say $4.99 seems like a good starting point.

I meanwhile learned that I can only publish in €. So I tend to €4.99 ($7.20). 

Another thought I have is could you have a paid app with ads only in the list view and the free version has ads everywhere. Would that make you more money?

No clue yet. The ad money is definitively the "better" money. Google can ask for "their" money back for a year or so when somebody claims that I infringe copyright or some other bs. The ad money will stay with me.

Also, with ads you pay-as-you-go, with a paid app somebody might expect me to keep the up running for the next ten years. I know this is not a common believe, but nonetheless, I would have to deal with that.

  Basically I would just like to see you get the most money you can from an app that I see as being so valuable.

I like the way you think ;-) 

[Mariano Kamp]

Well, pricing too low is a problem too. 

I think the Apple app store introduced us to the "race to the bottom". But still there are some high quality, polished apps in the app store. I am not sure why that is, I suspect it is because the iPhone lottery can still strike.

On Android we don't have an iPhone lottery and I feel that the quality of the apps in the Android Market is not very good. However I don't care much for the average quality as long as I can get good apps. And I feel we don't have many good apps (+games) on the Android Market. And I feel the reason is that most apps come from one-man-shows who don't even work full-time on their app. It seems obvious to me why the apps can't be polished then, there is a no proper video, website or manual for those apps.

From this point of view I think that $9.99 is a good price and if I look at the multi-thousand dollar investment somebody puts into such a phone/contract and the time people spend using the app or only the time people save in comparison to the mobile web app this would be bargain.

Having said that, the perception is totally different. I am not sure if people still pay €3 for a 20 seconds ring tone, but every thing above $1 for a mobile app seems to be a hard sell.

I think this must change so that we get developers to work full-time on their apps.

So for me it seems that €4.99/$7.20 is a good middle ground. 

[Mariano Kamp]

Henrik.

 

I wouldn't mind to pay of price of up to $10 and beyond personally (although I do think everything above $5 could be hard to sell -- not because it isn't worth it, but because it's too far above the common price of Android apps).

That nicely sums it up. I agree.

 

I think the refund for veteran users is a good idea and makes sense, although -- like Mark -- I personally wouldn't want to use it.

Thanks. I appreciate that.

Having said that, but just to be clear: For everybody else reading this, I don't consider it unappreciative if you just take my offer! 

[Shahpur]

Hi Mariano,

first of all NR is one of my most favourite Android apps, and i think
there is still no other reader on the Android or IPhone market which
can compete.

I'll get the NR Pro version without a doubt, since i really need that
locale feature. :)

But regarding the pricing it's a very delicate issue. I agree that
4.99 Euro is a good price if we take a look at NR and what it offers.
Anything above that is currently not that fitting, if you take a look
at the current Android Market situation. I don't expect to get every
app for 0.99 euro, so a good app can cost more than that. With 5 euros
NR would be 5 times more than the "standard" Android app, and that's a
good place to be. It shouldn't be much higher though.

Indeed you are very right that many Android apps just have a beta look
to them, because one developer is programming them on weekends. And we
need more professional apps on the market, in example PIM apps like
Pocket Informant which will definetly cost more than 5 euros. But if
you put the pricetag higher than 5 euros, lets say 8 or 10 euros, you
will position NR directly against all medium priced "professionally
published" apps: people will expect you to work on NR full time. You
will go into direct competition with other "real" companies which have
more than one developer. So this might be a harder situation for NR,
depending on how much time you plan for enhancing NR and to react to
users complaints.

Just one example: if somebody pays 10 euros for NR and a current
update has any issues or is broken since google change the logics or
anything on their interface, you are guaranteed to get a much harsher
reaction, than at lower price tags. This will make an impact on your
sales on longterm.

In order to get the most benefit a price tag which will convince most
regular NR users makes more sense, instead a high price which will
only take over the hardcore fans. At least this is what i think from a
business point of view, based on what the Android Market offers and
what the customers ask for. Since i studied computer science and
economy i have both views to a degree. I can understand how much work
an app like NR means, but i also see that most users will still not
understand that they have to pay 10 euros for that. ;)

Just my opinion. I can't live without NR so damn it, you can put any
price tag on it and i'm still gonna buy that app! :)

Bye,
Shahpur

[Tejas]

I like the idea of a limited low price on NewsRob Pro at launch. Maybe
just for a few days even. That would be enough time for all your loyal
users to benefit even if they don't frequent this forum. Maybe if you
had a discounted launch price of $3.99 or $4.99 then you could switch
it to $6.99 - $9.99 afterwards? I have no issue paying whatever price
you decide on. NewsRob is one of the two most used apps on a daily
basis...the other one is DoggCatcher which I paid $7-8 for (forgot how
much).

Good luck.

[Lauren Weinstein]

I've noted this before, but an option to increase the font size for
the headline list would be very useful for those of us with less than
perfect vision, whichever version it might end up in.

> --

[James Lamb]

I too would be wiling to pay £5 /£6. I wouldn't want any refund as i use it all the time and well worth the money
 

 James

 

 

 

 

---

From: Mariano Kamp <marian...@gmail.com>
To: NewsRob User Group <new...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sat, 9 January, 2010 12:48:30
Subject: Future of NewsRob

[Mariano Kamp]

Yes, I remember. And someone, submitted a suggestion about it: http://newsrob.uservoice.com/forums/35624-general/suggestions/409353-allow-for-larger-fonts-in-the-article-headline-lis?ref=title

I thought this was you. But anyway, please vote for it then.

I am willing to implement it, given enough votes, and would see this in both versions as it looks like an accessibility feature to me.

[Mariano Kamp]

Thanks James!

[Mariano Kamp]

Hi Shapur.

I agree with your analysis, but not a 100% with the conclusion. Saying that NewsRob would cost/is worth x times as much as a $1 app would imply that the other apps are priced/valued right ;-) 

Anyway, €4.99 sounds good to me meanwhile. I still consider making an introductory offer of €3.99, but I am not sure if this is worth the effort and if it doesn't look like a cheap promotion.

[Mariano Kamp]

Tejas,

yes, I consider doing that. 

I am wondering how to best communicate that without it looking like a cheap promotion. Maybe I put it in the description of the next update to the free version and let it stay there for two weeks.

[Shahpur]

Hi,

looking at some unprofessional or very small apps on the market...well
i have to say that there are many cases were the 0.99 price tag IS
indeed priced correctly, if not even overpriced. This brings us back
to the discussion that Android Market needs more professionals 3rd
party developers. :)

i don't see any Problem with a 3.99 tag for a short period. In the end
you should do what makes the most profit for you (because you deserve
it), and why should a temporarily lower price be cheap promotion? This
is a very common tool to promote anything, i see no cheapness here,
other than the price being cheaper that is. :)

If you decide to have a lower price tag for a specific time, then
mostly current NR fans will profit from this because they will
download it first, and get the Pro Version. I would say that this
would be a nice move. ;)

Bye,
Shahpur

On 11 Jan., 07:48, Mariano Kamp <mariano.k...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Shapur.
>
> I agree with your analysis, but not a 100% with the conclusion. Saying that
> NewsRob would cost/is worth x times as much as a $1 app would imply that the
> other apps are priced/valued right ;-)
>
> Anyway, €4.99 sounds good to me meanwhile. I still consider making an
> introductory offer of €3.99, but I am not sure if this is worth the effort
> and if it doesn't look like a cheap promotion.
>

> > newsrob+u...@googlegroups.com<newsrob%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>

[Mariano Kamp]

[..] This brings us back

to the discussion that Android Market needs more professionals 3rd
party developers. :)

Exactly ;-)

 

If you decide to have a lower price tag for a specific time, then
mostly current NR fans will profit from this because they will
download it first, and get the Pro Version. I would say that this
would be a nice move. ;)

That's the idea. Ok, it's settled then. I will do that.

[Nicolas]

I don't think there is a need for promotions / discounted rates. Those
who value it will pay for it as long as price = value (or so). I use
NewsRob all the time and wouldn't mind paying £5 for it. If people are
willing to pay £1 or £2 for wallpapers and ringtones I don't think £5
would be too much to ask for a productivity-enhancing app that syncs
with Google Reader (this is what brought me to NR in the first place).
With a commitment to innovation and upgrades this would be money well
spent!

i'd also say that the profile of an Android user is likely to be
different to that of the iPhone - and I wouldn't be surprised if
Android users were more oriented toward business and productivity-
enhancing apps - a lot of iPhone users are teenagers unwilling to
spend much (with professionals as well), while most Android users I
know tend to be professionals (and I havent seen one teenager with a
Android device in hand!).

£5/5 euros does not seem too much to me!
Nicolas

> > newsrob+u...@googlegroups.com<newsrob%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com >

[Moof]

Hi Mariano,

I'm a fairly new user, as I'm new to Android, but NewsRob is an app I
use every day and has changed the way I consume news completely.

For the record, I'd be happy to pay for newsrob. 5€ seems a good price
point for me, but I'd probably pay more if it went there. I gather the
way the Android market works, you'd be forced to set the price in
Euros rather than dollars, but that's more of a detail,

There's been a bit of a discussion about how to get the two-app
approach working, especially as you're having difficulty with the SDK.
Have you considered an approach similar to the way DocumentsToGo
works? They provide a "Free" application that has all the code for all
the free and paid functionality, and the application limits itself if
it can't find the presence of a small "Full enabler" application that
costs money.

In terms of advantages:
* It means you only have to maintain one codebase.
* It means people only have to update one application.
* It allows you to open the path up for alternative authentication
mechanisms, such as emailing the activation .apk out to people (thus
solving your "how do I refund my loyal users" problem), or providing
activation codes.
* It allows you to charge people in markets outside of the Google
Checkout areas, as then you can provide an alternate authentication.

In terms of disadvantages:
* You don't solve the multiple accounts problem. But I'm sure there
are other solutions to that.
* You open up the application to the possibility of being "hacked" to
enable the paid functionality, but, really, if someone's going to go
to all that effort to hack around with an application that costs 5€,
they probably wouldn't pay you in the first place.

Anyway, it's a thought.

I love the app.

Moof

[Mariano Kamp]

Moof,

glad to hear that you consider NewsRob worth buying ;-)

Now on to the beef of your post. Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts and explain your reasoning in detail.

You address a major headache I have and I also asked for opinions on the Android dev list:http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/browse_thread/thread/d7fc4045ef9bf7bc

The approach you outlined didn't come up there and in the beginning I considered it somewhat unelegant. But thinking more about it I totally changed my mind and am now absolutely thrilled.

One thing that was bugging me was how to deal with betas in the future? I was thinking about releasing time-bombed (10 days) full version to this list, but with the approach you outlined it becomes a non-issue.

None of the outlined solutions in the conversation that I linked to above are as easy to use and would have definitively slowed me down, possibly have lead to the occasional bug. 

Hence I think I'd like to go down this path. I'd put up a second "enabler-app" and put a button into the lite version to buy the paid version by launching the market. The other way around in the "enabler-app" I'd check if the actual version is on the phone too otherwise I'd also launch the market to download it.

Other thoughts?

Cheers,

Mariano

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[Henrik Heimbuerger]

For the record (or if you need to see another implementation of this), BeyondPod does it the same way.

I have two 'apps' installed, BeyondPod 2.1.6 (the actual app, which is free) and BeyondPod Unlock Key (which has no real functionality, but costs money).

The small downside is that the user sees two apps in all the app lists, but that's really a minor problem. (I guess it wouldn't bug my at all, if it wasn't for my updating app, aTrackDog, which constantly shows an upgrade of the BeyondPod Unlock Key to 1.0.1 which I can't install from the market however -- maybe it's for post-1.5, I don't know.)

[leo]

Just wanted to say that I use NewsRob regularly and would be happy to
pay for it. If I do pay for it how long would the license be for? Down
the line after an year if I get a new android phone do I have to pay
again?

[Mariano Kamp]

Hey Leo!

Well, I haven't given it that much thought. Given the amount of money don't expect this to be a very long time, and be happy if it still turns out to be that way.

It might be that Google cuts off the API or something like that happens, then your money would be lost also.

I will try to be reasonable, but as I will not be able to earn much money from it I won't be able to commit to years of support either. Sorry.

If you feel unsure about that, the ad based version will do a little less than the paid version and will have ads, but should still be a great app.

When you get a new phone you should be able to use your copy of NewsRob on that phone. Having said that, currently some Droids or Milestones cannot use the software that has been purchased before, because of some bug. I would not be responsible for that.

I am not even sure if that case would apply and if it is related to copy protection. Because of various problems for honest users with the copy protection of the Android Market, I will not turn on copy protection. To prevent misunderstandings: At the same time I want users to be honest about it and not copy it.

[Mariano Kamp]

ps. It seems to be an issue with copy protected apps only: http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=5184

[Tammer Ghaly]

Mariano, I think NR is one of the best apps I've used so far. I have
only had an android phone for about a month and a half, but it has
become a daily staple and helps me keep up with my RSS feeds. I often
have some downtime at work, but since I work in a lab I don't really
get as much time on the computer as I'd like. NR fills this void for
me and I would definitely pay for a free version. It shows that you
really put a lot of time into development.

One feature I would like to see though is a help menu that explains
all the shortcuts I seem to be finding. Also, is there any way to
enable multi-touch for the phones that support it even though android
doesn't?

Thanks for the great app and keep up the good work.

~Tammer

[Mariano Kamp]

Hi Tammer,

thanks for your compliments.

You mean that you would like to have a manual? Well, that makes sense, of course. Early versions of NewsRob had that, but looking at my support mails it wasn't really read and it took a lot of time to keep it up to date. Hence I stopped doing that.

But that was six months ago and it might be time to reconsider this.

A video or a series of videos would work for you too, I suppose?

If I want to code multi-touch into the embedded browser? Ok, I guess I could do that.

Both things will cost time and that means that other things cannot be done. Since a month or so I try to involve the users in this prioritization process using http://newsrob.uservoice.com. Could you please add these two suggestions there? When those two get enough votes they bubble up to the top of the list and I'll implement them.

Cheers,

Mariano

[Jdove]

I'm not sure whether or not I would pay for newsrob now. Reason being,
I just started beta testing for Slidescreen/Intelligent Home (http://
larvalabs.com/product_pages/intelligent_home_screen.html) which has
built in Google Reader support. If I hadn't started on that, I'd be
still glued to NewsRob and would definitely pay. However, I haven't
used NewsRob that much in the past few days since I've started testing
since it would waste battery to keep it syncing and its more
convenient to have my feeds on my home screen. When Intelligent Home
comes out of beta it will probably cost $5 so I'm not sure I could
justify spending money again on the same functionality.

That said, Intelligent Home will be offering a plugin API so you could
code a NewsRob plugin for it if you feel like it down the road.

Not that I think you have to offer it for free to old users, I do have
an idea on how you could if you wanted to. You could implement an
activation code system. People could pay for codes to type into the
basic app or there could be some sort of patch like thing like
Documents to Go has. Then you could just give the code or the patch to
the old users.

> The latter should not be confused with "my recently shared", which will also

[Mark Otway]

The home screen sounds pretty cool. I remember reading about it a few months ago, good to see it's progressed since then. Do they have background syncing and downloading of articles for offline reading like Newsrob does? If so, I might take a look.

On 18 Jan 2010 00:37, "Jdove" <jedi...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm not sure whether or not I would pay for newsrob now. Reason being,
I just started beta testing for Slidescreen/Intelligent Home (http://
larvalabs.com/product_pages/intelligent_home_screen.html) which has
built in Google Reader support. If I hadn't started on that, I'd be
still glued to NewsRob and would definitely pay. However, I haven't
used NewsRob that much in the past few days since I've started testing
since it would waste battery to keep it syncing and its more
convenient to have my feeds on my home screen. When Intelligent Home
comes out of beta it will probably cost $5 so I'm not sure I could
justify spending money again on the same functionality.

That said, Intelligent Home will be offering a plugin API so you could
code a NewsRob plugin for it if you feel like it down the road.

Not that I think you have to offer it for free to old users, I do have
an idea on how you could if you wanted to. You could implement an
activation code system. People could pay for codes to type into the
basic app or there could be some sort of patch like thing like
Documents to Go has. Then you could just give the code or the patch to
the old users.

On Jan 9, 7:48 am, Mariano Kamp <mariano.k...@gmail.com> wrote: > The really long time users of New...

[Mariano Kamp]

Implementing a home grown activation code as well as integrating with Slidescreen both take time that I could use to implement other features that are more immediate and closer to home (newsrob.uservoice.com). For that reason I don't see those things being implemented at all (one-off implementation of activation codes) or later (when Slidescreen gets widespread).

Thanks for adding to the money issue. The different views are very important to me, because it's one of those issues which are not easily deductible by logical reasoning, but are dependent on a lot of things, many of those subjective.

There will still be the ad based version of NewsRob that basically does what it does today and will also grow.

[Jdove]

@Mariano

Understood.

@Mark

They have background syncing that you can configure the frequency of.
I believe they have offline downloading because I just reloaded it to
fetch 3-4 articles and it took a good 30sec (not sure how long, just
saying longer than would be expected for just headlines). I then put
my phone on airplane mode and was still able to view the articles, so
I'm pretty sure they are downloaded. Right now there isn't an option
to manage that cache, though the reader has a while to go before being
release ready. I don't really want to answer any more questions about
the slidescreen since I am under an NDA. Though, anyone interested is
welcome to sign up for beta testing http://larvalabs.com/product_pages/intelligent_home_screen.html

On Jan 18, 2:24 am, Mariano Kamp <mariano.k...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Implementing a home grown activation code as well as integrating with
> Slidescreen both take time that I could use to implement other features that
> are more immediate and closer to home (newsrob.uservoice.com). For that
> reason I don't see those things being implemented at all (one-off
> implementation of activation codes) or later (when Slidescreen gets
> widespread).
>
> Thanks for adding to the money issue. The different views are very important
> to me, because it's one of those issues which are not easily deductible by
> logical reasoning, but are dependent on a lot of things, many of those
> subjective.
>
> There will still be the ad based version of NewsRob that basically does what
> it does today and will also grow.
>

> > newsrob+u...@googlegroups.com<newsrob%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>

[Mark Otway]

I tried signing up but their page seemed bust.

On 18 Jan 2010 21:52, "Jdove" <jedi...@gmail.com> wrote:

@Mariano

Understood.

@Mark

They have background syncing that you can configure the frequency of.
I believe they have offline downloading because I just reloaded it to
fetch 3-4 articles and it took a good 30sec (not sure how long, just
saying longer than would be expected for just headlines). I then put
my phone on airplane mode and was still able to view the articles, so
I'm pretty sure they are downloaded. Right now there isn't an option
to manage that cache, though the reader has a while to go before being
release ready. I don't really want to answer any more questions about
the slidescreen since I am under an NDA. Though, anyone interested is
welcome to sign up for beta testing http://larvalabs.com/product_pages/intelligent_home_screen.html

On Jan 18, 2:24 am, Mariano Kamp <mariano.k...@gmail.com> wrote: > Implementing a home grown activa...

> On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 1:37 AM, Jdove <jedid...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I'm not sure whether or not...

> > newsrob+u...@googlegroups.com<newsrob%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>

> > . > > For more options, visit this group at > >http://groups.google.com/group/newsrob?hl=en.

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