Information For People Using Googlegroups 8
Sidney Lambe
People using googlegroups to access the Usenet often don't
realize that the Usenet is a worldwide network of news servers
that exists quite independently of Google (and existed long
before Google was even dreamed of).
Nor do they understand that the Usenet is best accessed with
applications called newsreaders and that many people on the
Usenet filter out posts from googlegroups. Why?
1) It is the source of a great deal of spam.
2) Googlegroups posters, on newsgroups where specialized
information is shared, tend to be people who take but don't give.
They come for help but never help anyone.
3) Googlegroups is also a favorite of "trolls", neurotics who
wander the Usenet making trouble using dozens of different names.
Googlegroups is, for the serious Useneter, a Usenet archive, no
more and no less, accessed here:
http://groups.google.com/advanced_search?q=&
If you want your posts to be taken seriously, or even seen,
you need to learn to use a newsreader. It isn't difficult. You
probably already have one on your computer. In short order you
will discover just how superior to googlegroups a newsreader is.
The place to start is the newsgroup news.newusers.questions,
which can be accessed via googlegroups at:
http://groups.google.com/group/news.newusers.questions/topics
This newsgroup has its own website with links to a lot of
information about the Usenet:
In particular, see this page:
http://www.anta.net/misc/nnq/how-it-works.shtml
For direct help on the usenet, see the newsgroup
news.software.readers:
http://groups.google.com/group/news.software.readers/topics
(Note that there are some jerks on this group who won't respond
to any posts from googlegroups or will attack people using
googlegroups. Ignore them. There are also some nice people there.
Just make it clear that you want help configuring and using a
real newsreader so that you can get off googlegroups. Make it
clear in the subjects of your posts.)
Here are some more links that you may find helpful:
http://computer.howstuffworks.com/newsgroup.htm
http://lipas.uwasa.fi/~ts/http/tsfaq.html
http://www.big-8.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=faqs:newusers
http://www.newsreaders.com/
http://www.dmoz.org/Computers/Usenet/
http://www.physiol.ox.ac.uk/~njh/usenet.php3
http://www.dickgaughan.co.uk/usenet/guide/index.html
These are the websites that offer free access to newsservers
you can use if your ISP doesn't offer this service. It may, so
be sure to check:
Unreachable at the time of this posting but
probably still a good bet.
(this server kills all posts from googlegroups)
(free.sonic-news.com is their free newsserver, no password or
username required, 5 posts an hour amd 50 MB/day)
This is their free server, which you can just use:
Free accounts available must sign up.
Been hearing bad things about their free accounts lately.
(Beyond the fact that they aren't really free.)
http://www.geocities.com/newsc/
http://80.247.230.136/nntpeng.htm
Note: Free newsserver access has a tendency to come and go
without warning, so don't take that list too seriously.
Note: that this is an informational posting published weekly.
(more or less) I do not read responses to it on the Usenet. (In fact, my
newsfilter kills the thread.)
Thu Jan 22 11:39:25 PST 2009
Sid
Tim Greer
> Information For People Using Googlegroups 8
Your feelings about google groups are not relevant to justify posting in
the Linux newsgroups. Please stop doing that.
--
Tim Greer, CEO/Founder/CTO, BurlyHost.com, Inc.
Shared Hosting, Reseller Hosting, Dedicated & Semi-Dedicated servers
and Custom Hosting. 24/7 support, 30 day guarantee, secure servers.
Industry's most experienced staff! -- Web Hosting With Muscle!
Frank Slootweg
Tim Greer <t...@burlyhost.com> wrote:
> Sidney Lambe wrote:
>
> > Information For People Using Googlegroups 8
>
> Your feelings about google groups are not relevant to justify posting in
> the Linux newsgroups. Please stop doing that.
His posts are even more off-topic in news.software.readers, as the
audience he pretends to address - more or less *by definition* - doesn't
exist *at all* [1] in nsr.
He's *your* [TINY] guy. *You* keep him. We have our *own** problems! :-)
[1] Yes, there are some very rare exceptions.
Tim Greer
I am not surprised he does this in other groups (we've had enough of him
in the Linux groups, too). See, now we have some weird kindship. ;-)
avid fan
Sid one thing that you must understand is that not everybody owns their
own computer.
When I did not have my own laptop I used to use google groups so that I
could access groups from my work computer.
I was not allowed to install any software on my work laptop even though
the company desperately needed the skills that I could offer.
Computer departments in big companies are run by arseholes.
They waste their time hunting down people that install iTunes on their
computers rather than provide the business tools that workers need.
IT departments would rather let the vast unused capacity of their
machines go idle than let their employees use some of it for education
or relaxation
Indi
That's quite an unfair and most likely inaccurate characterization of IT
people. A lot of times the IT dept has a mandate not to let people use company
time for reading usenet, web browsing, and other activities which might be
classed as "education or relaxation". Also, there are often valid security
concerns with letting people install various software, especially in a
windows environment. Every app has to be known to the sysadmin(s), because
if it does something horrible IT folks are the ones who will take the heat.
Imagine being the one who has to investigate dozens or even hundreds of apps
per month in order to clear them for your users. Imagine management being okay
with that use of paid IT time. For that matter, imagine management being
happy about employees reading usenet -- of course there will be exceptions,
but generally, they will consider such employees are "gold bricking".
So, who's the real "arsehole"? Depends I guess on where you sit and what you know...
To me, users calling IT folk "arseholes" for trying to follow orders while
keeping sane network policy look like -- well, you get the picture, I'm sure.
I have known some IT people who get high on their "power" over users, but
most are really not like that.
indi
Sidney Lambe
> Sidney Lambe wrote:
>> Information For People Using Googlegroups 8
>>
>> People using googlegroups to access the Usenet often don't
>> realize that the Usenet is a worldwide network of news servers
>> that exists quite independently of Google (and existed long
>> before Google was even dreamed of).
>>
>> Nor do they understand that the Usenet is best accessed with
>> applications called newsreaders and that many people on the
>> Usenet filter out posts from googlegroups. Why?
>>
>> 1) It is the source of a great deal of spam.
>>
>> 2) Googlegroups posters, on newsgroups where specialized
>>
>
> Sid one thing that you must understand is that not everybody owns their
> own computer.
>
> When I did not have my own laptop I used to use google groups so that I
> could access groups from my work computer.
>
> I was not allowed to install any software on my work laptop even though
> the company desperately needed the skills that I could offer.
> Computer departments in big companies are run by arseholes.
> They waste their time hunting down people that install iTunes on their
> computers rather than provide the business tools that workers need.
>
> IT departments would rather let the vast unused capacity of their
> machines go idle than let their employees use some of it for education
> or relaxation
I've got the picture. You were too stuck up to get an old desktop
which will run Linux with ease. (These can be acquired for next to
nothing. Or nothing.)
Good reason to killfile you by killing all posts from googlegroups.
It costs money to run computers, you know. Lots and lots of energy.
Wear and tear on hardware. Bandwidth...
How nice of you to decide that the company has foot the bill for
your computer recreation.
Asshole.
Sid
Frank Slootweg
> On 2009-02-09, avid fan <us...@example.example.net> wrote:
> > Sidney Lambe wrote:
*Who*? :-)
[...]
Besides the very valid points you make, his "I was not allowed to
install any software on my work laptop" argument is very likely invalid,
because his "work laptop" *will* most likely have a newsreader. It may
not be a very *good* one, but that can hardly be a valid point,
especially not for "education or relaxation" use. Also finding a News
server on a non-119 port - and thereby probably violating company policy
- can't be a problem.
Indi
Yes, you're right... I'm afraid his assertions about "IT people" kind of blinded
me to the rest of the discussion.
indi
Beauregard T. Shagnasty
> <snip>
Why must you people quote the whole 120 lines of the spam?
--
-bts
-Friends don't let friends drive Windows
Indi
> Indi wrote:
>
>> <snip>
>
> Why must you people quote the whole 120 lines of the spam?
>
Who is this "you people" of whom you speak?
indi
Mike Easter
Newsgroups: news.software.readers, comp.os.linux.misc, alt.linux
Whacky crossposter. Reply limited to nsr.
> Sidney Lambe wrote:
>> Information For People Using Googlegroups 8
> Sid one thing that you must understand is that not everybody owns their
> own computer.
Or submachinegun or pigsty.
> When I did not have my own laptop I used to use google groups so that I
> could access groups from my work computer.
ITYM Ithinkyoumean you used to borrow/take/steal your employer's wages and
connectivity and computer and network to perform activities online which
you were not authorized to do.
> I was not allowed to install any software on my work laptop even though
> the company desperately needed the skills that I could offer.
How desperately the co needed your skills could be determined by what
kinds of mutual arrangements you could make with the co admin and IT to
access newsgroups in an authorized fashion.
If your newsgroup activity were an acceptable office/co activity, there
are other ways than GG to read/post to usenet.
--
Mike Easter
Mike Easter
> Beauregard T. Shagnasty
>> Indi wrote:
>>
>>> <snip>
>>
>> Why must you people quote the whole 120 lines of the spam?
>>
>
> Who is this "you people" of whom you speak?
Bottom posters who do not trim and contextualize - which influences top
posters to believe that non-trimming and non-contextualizing comes in two
flavors, top and bottom, and they are correct.
Bottom posting untrimmed and noncontextualized causes the same kinds of
problems as top posting and adds the 'scrolling' problem that top posters
complain about.
OTOH properly attributing, trimming and contexting is much better than top
or untrimmed bottom.
--
Mike Easter
Indi
>
> Bottom posting untrimmed and noncontextualized causes the same kinds of
> problems as top posting and adds the 'scrolling' problem that top posters
> complain about.
>
> OTOH properly attributing, trimming and contexting is much better than top
> or untrimmed bottom.
>
Okay, thanks. Is this better then?
indi
Beauregard T. Shagnasty
> Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
>> Indi wrote:
>>> <snip>
>>
>> Why must you people quote the whole 120 lines of the spam?
>
> Who is this "you people" of whom you speak?
Is that a rhetorical question?
If it's not, note all the posts in response to the OP. You and 'avid
fan' both quoted the entire 120-line spam post (which I would have not
seen at all because Sydney is in the bozo bin). Nobody else did.
Theodore Heise
>> People using googlegroups to access the Usenet often don't
>> [...] understand that the Usenet is best accessed with
>> applications called newsreaders...
> When I did not have my own laptop I used to use google groups so
> that I could access groups from my work computer.
>
> I was not allowed to install any software on my work laptop...
Here's another option to consider. Set up a free shell account
(e.g., nyx.net) and download PuTTY:
http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/download.html
PuTTY will allow you to connect by ssh to remote servers, and the
executable runs directly--no installation needed.
--
Theodore (Ted) Heise <th...@heise.nu> Bloomington, IN, USA
Ed
Hash: SHA256
avid fan <us...@example.example.net> wrote in
news:w0Wjl.18921$cu.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au:
snip
>>
>>
>
> Sid one thing that you must understand is that not
> everybody owns their own computer.
>
> When I did not have my own laptop I used to use google
> groups so that I could access groups from my work computer.
>
> I was not allowed to install any software on my work laptop
> even though the company desperately needed the skills that
> I could offer. Computer departments in big companies are
> run by arseholes. They waste their time hunting down people
> that install iTunes on their computers rather than provide
> the business tools that workers need.
>
> IT departments would rather let the vast unused capacity of
> their machines go idle than let their employees use some of
> it for education or relaxation
Wouldn't even let you use your own portable stuff on a flash
drive? That blows.
- --
http://blogdoofus.com
http://tinfoilchef.com
http://www.domaincarryout.com
Un-official Freenet 0.5 alternative download
http://peculiarplace.com/freenet/
Mixminion Message Sender, Windows GUI Frontend for Mixminion
http://peculiarplace.com/mixminion-message-sender/
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Mike Easter
> Mike Easter
>> OTOH properly attributing, trimming and contexting is much better than
>> top or untrimmed bottom.
>>
>
> Okay, thanks. Is this better then?
Yes. Tnx.
> indi
I think it is also better if you use a properly delimited sig rather than
a 'signoff' which is not delimited. Your newsagent is slrn. slrn is
perfectly capable of automatically making a delimited sig instead of your
typing in 'indi' (or using slrn's signoff_string)
That is, if you creat a signature for slrn, it will automatically add it
for you properly delimited
slrn docs 6.97 -- slrn can append a signature to all outgoing articles and
mails.... If your signature file doesn't start with sig dashes ("-- \n"),
slrn will add them automatically.
If you don't have the slrn docs, they can be found here
http://snipr.com/bl6wa Slrn Documentation Project
--
Mike Easter
Indi
> I think it is also better if you use a properly delimited sig rather than
> a 'signoff' which is not delimited. Your newsagent is slrn. slrn is
> perfectly capable of automatically making a delimited sig instead of your
> typing in 'indi' (or using slrn's signoff_string)
>
> That is, if you creat a signature for slrn, it will automatically add it
> for you properly delimited
>
> slrn docs 6.97 -- slrn can append a signature to all outgoing articles and
> mails.... If your signature file doesn't start with sig dashes ("-- \n"),
> slrn will add them automatically.
>
> If you don't have the slrn docs, they can be found here
> http://snipr.com/bl6wa Slrn Documentation Project
>
>
>
Thanks, I'm aware of how to specify a sigfile in slrn.
Not a noob to usenet or to slrn, just to this particular group.
But I've never heard there was a problem with undelimited sigs before.
Sometimes I might want to say "cheers", "thanks", "HTH", etc before typing
my name. In which case, it seems a lot easier to just type it all.
Is there a logical reason why it is better to use only a delimited sig?
Cheers,
--
indi
Mike Easter
> Mike Easter
>> I think it is also better if you use a properly delimited sig rather
>> than a 'signoff' which is not delimited.
> But I've never heard there was a problem with undelimited sigs before.
> Sometimes I might want to say "cheers", "thanks", "HTH", etc before
> typing my name. In which case, it seems a lot easier to just type it
> all.
> Is there a logical reason why it is better to use only a delimited sig?
Not much... just the advantage (to the trimmers) of the autotrimming of a
delimited sig.
But whenever it gets debated here, there seems to be enough support for
the signoff that it is a matter of personal preference.
I didn't know you knew your choices until now.
--
Mike Easter
Indi
>
>
I suppose it's fair to say that the other groups in which
I've participated were more lax on the nettiquette.
Not that I'm making excuses... I'm happy to raise my standard.
--
indi
Marten Kemp
What he said. Sysadmins have to fix what the others fsck up.
--
-- Marten Kemp
(Fix name and ISP to reply)
Dan C
You, you fucking moron.
--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
Ahhhhhhh!: http://brandybuck.site40.net/pics/relieve.jpg
Indi
goodness of his heart, was kind enough to enlighten us all with the
following:
>
> You, you fucking moron.
>
Thanks for sharing.
You're just too good for this world.
--
indi
Indi
>
>
No. But I did get the answer I was seeking, see news.software.readers for
the rest of the thread.
> If it's not, note all the posts in response to the OP. You and 'avid
> fan' both quoted the entire 120-line spam post (which I would have not
> seen at all because Sydney is in the bozo bin). Nobody else did.
>
Well, I didn't at first notice that the message was x-posted. Thus, I didn't
see "all the responses" because on news.software.readers there weren't any.
I'm sorry if I offended you by not trimming the parent and grandparent, and
by quoting someone you're ignoring -- that was certainly not my intention.
Of course, some are more easily offended than others, and I have no control
over that (though I do manage to live with it:). Perhaps in the future we can
both be a bit more careful about x-posting.
--
indi
[This message posted individually to the groups to which parent was originally
x-posted, so the response will not be carelessly x-posted again.]
Dan C
>> If it's not, note all the posts in response to the OP. You and 'avid
>> fan' both quoted the entire 120-line spam post (which I would have not
>> seen at all because Sydney is in the bozo bin). Nobody else did.
> Well, I didn't at first notice that the message was x-posted. Thus, I
> didn't see "all the responses" because on news.software.readers there
> weren't any. I'm sorry if I offended you by not trimming the parent and
> grandparent, and by quoting someone you're ignoring -- that was
> certainly not my intention.
>
> Of course, some are more easily offended than others, and I have no
> control over that (though I do manage to live with it:). Perhaps in the
> future we can both be a bit more careful about x-posting.
Perhaps in the future, you could just stop posting to Usenet altogether,
and thereby improve the Usenet experience for all other posters.
Indi
demeanor, contributed this well-mannered and carefully thought out missive:
> Perhaps in the future, you could just stop posting to Usenet altogether,
> and thereby improve the Usenet experience for all other posters.
>
Oh Dan, you charming rascal.
--
indi
Beauregard T. Shagnasty
> Perhaps in the future we can both be a bit more careful about x-posting.
I didn't start it. You must be talking about Sydney.
> --
> indi
>
> [This message posted individually
No it wasn't.
> to the groups to which parent was originally x-posted, so the response
> will not be carelessly x-posted again.]
Do you know that multi-posting is far worse than cross-posting?
Indi
> Indi wrote:
>
>> Perhaps in the future we can both be a bit more careful about x-posting.
>
> I didn't start it. You must be talking about Sydney.
>
Excuse me, but are you serious?
Didn't you reply to a cossposted message, thus crossposting your reply?
>>
>> [This message posted individually
>
> No it wasn't.
>
Correct. The crossposted version was a mistake, and I canceled t immediately.
Unfortunately, it did not disappear immediately. Oh, well.
>> to the groups to which parent was originally x-posted, so the response
>> will not be carelessly x-posted again.]
>
> Do you know that multi-posting is far worse than cross-posting?
>
As I said, I cancelled the crossposted mesage. We all make mistakes.
But aren't you nitpicking a bit for someone who crossposts so much?
--
indi
andrew
> Thanks, I'm aware of how to specify a sigfile in slrn.
> Not a noob to usenet or to slrn, just to this particular group.
Just to hijack this thread a little can I ask about the slrn xxxx
(Darwin) User-Agent string? I assume you are using an Apple computer and
I am interested in keeping the 'download' page of the slrn website up to
date:
http://slrn.sourceforge.net/download.html
If you have compiled from source nothing will change but I was criious
to know if anybody is maintaining 'Darwin' binaries out there.
Andrew
--
echo 'hfrarg...@tznvy.pbz' | \
tr 'A-M N-Z a-m n-z' 'N-Z A-M n-z a-m'
Indi
> Just to hijack this thread a little can I ask about the slrn xxxx
> (Darwin) User-Agent string? I assume you are using an Apple computer and
> I am interested in keeping the 'download' page of the slrn website up to
> date:
>
> http://slrn.sourceforge.net/download.html
>
> If you have compiled from source nothing will change but I was criious
> to know if anybody is maintaining 'Darwin' binaries out there.
>
Hi Andrew,
I did compile from source. After having various issues with Fink and
MacPorts, I find it's less trouble to build most gnu stuff that way.
Thank you for your work on slrn, I really enjoy using it.
Cheers,
--
indi
andrew
> I did compile from source. After having various issues with Fink and
> MacPorts, I find it's less trouble to build most gnu stuff that way.
> Thank you for your work on slrn, I really enjoy using it.
Oh well I only do the website, others do the real work :-).
Rob
>
I said that
>> Computer departments in big companies are run by arseholes.
not the people who implement the policies.
I NEVER used my laptop in company time to do non work related activities.
Consider this the computer you are reading this with almost certainly
more powerful than all the computing power that put a man on the moon.
Do companies get the full benefit of this no - Why? I put it to you
that companies have locked up their computers so successfully, that
workers cannot get the tools they need to improve their productivity.
The usenet is very helpful for getting help with programing questions.
Since in my job I had to do analysis of figures. The IT department was
never very helpful in providing us the business tools. I asked the IT
department to let me install a programming language that I owned on to
my laptop so that I could create the tools that I needed. They refused.
I ended up learning a new language Visual Basic in Excel to automate a
lot of the analysis I needed. I was very productive - won lots of
company awards.
The only time I broke their policies was when I installed iTunes on my
computer (For some reason it got around the security systems of Windows)
I used it to download educational, business and management podcasts for
my GPS so that I could listen them in the car while I visited customers.
Of course whenever I went on a conference I would delete iTunes and
reinstall it afterwards
Beauregard T. Shagnasty
> Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
>> Indi wrote:
>>> Perhaps in the future we can both be a bit more careful about
>>> x-posting.
>>
>> I didn't start it. You must be talking about Sydney.
>
> Excuse me, but are you serious?
> Didn't you reply to a cossposted message, thus crossposting your reply?
Serious? Well, yeah, as serious as Usenet can be... <lol>
And my reply contained only one line.
>>> [This message posted individually
>>
>> No it wasn't.
>
> Correct. The crossposted version was a mistake, and I canceled t
> immediately. Unfortunately, it did not disappear immediately. Oh,
> well.
Canceling in Usenet is unreliable.
>>> to the groups to which parent was originally x-posted, so the
>>> response will not be carelessly x-posted again.]
>>
>> Do you know that multi-posting is far worse than cross-posting?
>
> As I said, I cancelled the crossposted mesage. We all make mistakes.
> But aren't you nitpicking a bit for someone who crossposts so much?
"So much?" I'm not the one who cross-posted the 161-line fullquote.
Rob
>> Sid one thing that you must understand is that not everybody owns their
>> own computer.
>>
>> When I did not have my own laptop I used to use google groups so that I
>> could access groups from my work computer.
>>
>> I was not allowed to install any software on my work laptop even though
>> the company desperately needed the skills that I could offer.
>> Computer departments in big companies are run by arseholes.
>> They waste their time hunting down people that install iTunes on their
>> computers rather than provide the business tools that workers need.
>>
>> IT departments would rather let the vast unused capacity of their
>> machines go idle than let their employees use some of it for education
>> or relaxation
>
> which will run Linux with ease. (These can be acquired for next to
> nothing. Or nothing.)
>
> Good reason to killfile you by killing all posts from googlegroups.
>
> It costs money to run computers, you know. Lots and lots of energy.
> Wear and tear on hardware. Bandwidth...
>
> How nice of you to decide that the company has foot the bill for
> your computer recreation.
>
> Asshole.
>
> Sid
>
Sid you really are the arsehole of arseholes
Yes I owned a desktop computer but I found that I preferred to be with
my wife. Since I already had a work laptop it seemed a waste to buy
another one when I already had one. After four years the company had
depreciated the laptops to nothing and put them in landfill because it
was cheaper for tax reasons than giving them to us.
I was not visiting Facebook I was getting programming tips from the
usenet that helped me in my work.
Work paid for a set amount of my internet time I paid for the rest over
all I think work got the better end of the deal. So I paid for the
bandwidth I paid for the power too since I was home.
As for Linix it is good for some things. Wifi and Printer drivers are a
pain to install.
You can't update maps on your GPS.
Using an iPod on Linux is a big pain.
If you are looking for a job. Most Companies and Job agencies will not
accept your resume on anything but Microsoft Word format.
Rob
I use PuTTY but not for usenet. Googlegroups works fine for me
Rob
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
>
> avid fan <us...@example.example.net> wrote in
> news:w0Wjl.18921$cu.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au:
>
> snip
>
>>>
>> Sid one thing that you must understand is that not
>> everybody owns their own computer.
>>
>> When I did not have my own laptop I used to use google
>> groups so that I could access groups from my work computer.
>>
>> I was not allowed to install any software on my work laptop
>> even though the company desperately needed the skills that
>> I could offer. Computer departments in big companies are
>> run by arseholes. They waste their time hunting down people
>> that install iTunes on their computers rather than provide
>> the business tools that workers need.
>>
>> IT departments would rather let the vast unused capacity of
>> their machines go idle than let their employees use some of
>> it for education or relaxation
>
> Wouldn't even let you use your own portable stuff on a flash
> drive? That blows.
The company policy was that only company thumb/flash drives were allowed
to be used.
I once saw a Marketing presentation fall to pieces at a conference
because nobody had a company flash drive with them.
I had a 4 gig personal flash drive in my pocket. I did not tell them.
Live by the Sword, Die by the Sword.
Rob
>
> Besides the very valid points you make, his "I was not allowed to
> install any software on my work laptop" argument is very likely invalid,
> because his "work laptop" *will* most likely have a newsreader. It may
> not be a very *good* one, but that can hardly be a valid point,
> especially not for "education or relaxation" use. Also finding a News
> server on a non-119 port - and thereby probably violating company policy
> - can't be a problem.
If Outlook or Outlook express were on that computer I could not find it.
I was allowed to use the work computer in my own time to browse the
internet so long as I did not go to porn.
Google groups worked fine for me. As far as I know I was not violating
any policy.
Indi
> Indi wrote:
>> Didn't you reply to a cossposted message, thus crossposting your reply?
>
> Serious? Well, yeah, as serious as Usenet can be... <lol>
> And my reply contained only one line.
>
Excuses are a sign of weak character.
>> The crossposted version was a mistake, and I canceled t
>> immediately. Unfortunately, it did not disappear immediately. Oh,
>> well.
>
> Canceling in Usenet is unreliable.
>
Yes, I know. But at least I own what I do.
>> But aren't you nitpicking a bit for someone who crossposts so much?
>
> "So much?" I'm not the one who cross-posted the 161-line fullquote.
>
That's true. You're the one who makes childish excuses for your mistakes (like
"he started it") rather than admit them, while being hypercritical of the
trivial mistakes of others. :)
--
indi
Rob
Even before the machines were locked down I never fucked up a machine.
If that is the issue charge the people who fuck up their machines
corporate rates to fix it.
Originally early computer languages like COBOL were created with the
intension that a worker could create a program in an afternoon to help
them in their work.
The reason that I taught my self to program was I had an important job
that needed doing. After spending TWO YEARS trying to get the IT
department to do it and getting told that "It is the next thing on my
list" I sat down at my desk saw a manual for GW Basic, I pulled the
thing down and read it. Half hour here half there I wrote the program in
two weeks and tripled the output for that assay in that lab.
If you work in IT and you don't want to do your job - don't do it ! but
don't stop me from doing the job myself.
Beauregard T. Shagnasty
> Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
>> Indi wrote:
>>> Excuse me, but are you serious?
>>> Didn't you reply to a cossposted message, thus crossposting your
>>> reply?
>>
>> Serious? Well, yeah, as serious as Usenet can be... <lol> And my
>> reply contained only one line.
>
> Excuses are a sign of weak character.
Sort of like, "The crossposted version was a mistake, and I canceled t
immediately." <g>
>>> The crossposted version was a mistake, and I canceled t immediately.
>>> Unfortunately, it did not disappear immediately. Oh, well.
>>
>> Canceling in Usenet is unreliable.
>
> Yes, I know. But at least I own what I do.
As if ... what?
>>> But aren't you nitpicking a bit for someone who crossposts so much?
>>
>> "So much?" I'm not the one who cross-posted the 161-line fullquote.
>
> That's true. You're the one who makes childish excuses for your
> mistakes (like "he started it") rather than admit them, while being
> hypercritical of the trivial mistakes of others. :)
Ahh, so now it's my fault you cross-posted/full-quoted 120 lines of
spam. I get it now. Thanks for the enlightenment.
Indi
> Indi wrote:
>
>
> Sort of like, "The crossposted version was a mistake, and I canceled t
> immediately." <g>
>
That's not an excuse; it's an admission of error and an explanation.
It is taking responsibility for my action.
>> Yes, I know. But at least I own what I do.
>
> As if ... what?
>
Yes, I can see how that might confuse you, it being a foreign concept
and all...
:)
>>
>> That's true. You're the one who makes childish excuses for your
>> mistakes (like "he started it") rather than admit them, while being
>> hypercritical of the trivial mistakes of others. :)
>
> Ahh, so now it's my fault you cross-posted/full-quoted 120 lines of
> spam. I get it now. Thanks for the enlightenment.
>
Nooo, it's your fault you carelessly crosspost while nitpicking the actions of
others. In your mind, the mistakes of others justify you harping on and on,
while your mistakes are someone else's fault ("he started it"). In fact,
you're just needlessly crabby and fussy, *and* you're a hypocrite.
HTH,
--
indi
Rui Maciel
> Wouldn't even let you use your own portable stuff on a flash
> drive? That blows.
I believe that enabling any user to run whatever unknown application they wish from any portable mass storage device would be a
huge security hole, wouldn't it?
Rui Maciel
Rui Maciel
> Here's another option to consider. Set up a free shell account
> (e.g., nyx.net) and download PuTTY:
>
> http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/download.html
>
> PuTTY will allow you to connect by ssh to remote servers, and the
> executable runs directly--no installation needed.
Isn't that a bit overkill? I mean, in one hand we have a website which is terribly easy to access and use and on the other hand we
have to download a remote shell client, log into a remote server and execute some application remotely.
Rui Maciel
Rob
Enabling? The security hole is already there. The only way to stop it
is to disable the USB drives and the DVD drives.
I suppose you could change the bios so that it boots from the harddisk
first.
Indi
> The only time I broke their policies was when I installed iTunes on my
> computer (For some reason it got around the security systems of Windows)
> I used it to download educational, business and management podcasts for
> my GPS so that I could listen them in the car while I visited customers.
>
>
> Of course whenever I went on a conference I would delete iTunes and
> reinstall it afterwards
Well, that's a huge, gaping hole in the story then, isn't it?
You could and did install iTunes, but it was impossible to install a
newsreader?
:)
--
indi
Ed
Hash: SHA256
Rob <us...@example.com> wrote in
news:JTfkl.19283$cu.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au:
Heh, that had to be entertaining
- --
http://blogdoofus.com
http://tinfoilchef.com
http://www.domaincarryout.com
Un-official Freenet 0.5 alternative download
http://peculiarplace.com/freenet/
Mixminion Message Sender, Windows GUI Frontend for Mixminion
http://peculiarplace.com/mixminion-message-sender/
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Beauregard T. Shagnasty
> Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
>> Ahh, so now it's my fault you cross-posted/full-quoted 120 lines of
>> spam. I get it now. Thanks for the enlightenment.
>
> Nooo, it's your fault you carelessly crosspost while nitpicking the
> actions of others. In your mind, the mistakes of others justify you
> harping on and on, while your mistakes are someone else's fault ("he
> started it"). In fact, you're just needlessly crabby and fussy, *and*
> you're a hypocrite.
I'm crabby, fussy, and a hypocrite because I didn't want to see 120
lines of spam. Ok, *now* I get it.
> HTH,
No, not really. <heh>
--
-bts
-Crabby, fussy, hypocritical curmudgeon
-curmudgeon: n: a crusty irascible cantankerous old person
-full of stubborn ideas
Theodore Heise
Depends on user preferences, I guess. I like using a traditional
CLI news client, at least in part because I have years worth of
muscle memory in the keystrokes. Remote access allows one to
maintain a single file for tracking what's been read and what
hasn't.
I'm not a fan of web interfaces for much, unless multi-media is
involved. Google provides a reasonable mechanism for searching
Usenet, but the format isn't pleasant for my reading.
The ssh connection also allows me to do whatever I like from work
without fear of tracking or reprisal.
YMMV.
--
Theodore (Ted) Heise <th...@heise.nu> Bloomington, IN, USA
Rob
I did not need to install a newsreader I had googlegroups. I have
stated before iTunes (for reasons that I did not understand) got around
the computers security.
Dan C
> I did not need to install a newsreader I had googlegroups. I have
> stated before iTunes (for reasons that I did not understand) got around
> the computers security.
A classic case of the stupid talking to the stupid.
How do you remember to keep breathing, dimwit?
Maxwell Lol
Indi
> I'm crabby, fussy, and a hypocrite because I didn't want to see 120
> lines of spam. Ok, *now* I get it.
>
Not quite. Actually, you're crabby because you are an angry person who feels
powerless. You're fussy because you think what you want is so very important
that others should cater to your preferences, which you enjoy portraying as
"rules". You're a hypocrite because you complain about people who do nothing
worse than you yourself have done.
Come to think of it, that makes you pretty normal, actually...
--
indi
XS11E
> Come to think of it, that makes you pretty normal, actually...
There's no need to sink to THAT level of personal insult. ;-)
--
XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
Indi
> Indi <in...@JayaSriRadhe.local> wrote:
>
>> Come to think of it, that makes you pretty normal, actually...
>
> There's no need to sink to THAT level of personal insult. ;-)
>
>
>
Meh -- perhaps I did take that a bit too far.
--
indi
Moe Trin
<gms77c$b3l$1...@aioe.org>, Rui Maciel wrote:
>Ed wrote:
>
>> Wouldn't even let you use your own portable stuff on a flash
>> drive? That blows.
If you feel that your portable stuff is needed for you to do your job
or would otherwise be beneficial to the employer, discuss it with
your supervisor.
>I believe that enabling any user to run whatever unknown application
>they wish from any portable mass storage device would be a huge
>security hole, wouldn't it?
http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/25.53.html which is a recent issue
of the ACM FORUM ON RISKS TO THE PUBLIC IN COMPUTERS AND RELATED
SYSTEMS - also known as the Risks Digest, or news://comp.risks/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 11:26:18 PST
From: "Peter G. Neumann" <neu...@csl.sri.com>
Subject: Worm Infects Millions of Computers Worldwide (John Markoff)
[Source: John Markoff, *The New York Times*, 23 Jan 2009]
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/23/technology/internet/23worm.html
A new digital plague has hit the Internet, infecting millions of personal
and business computers in what seems to be the first step of a multistage
attack. The world's leading computer security experts do not yet know who
programmed the infection, or what the next stage will be.
In recent weeks a worm, a malicious software program, has swept through
corporate, educational and public computer networks around the world.
Known as Conficker or Downadup/Downandup, it is spread by a recently
discovered Microsoft Windows vulnerability, by guessing network
passwords and by hand-carried consumer gadgets like USB keys.
Experts say it is the worst infection since the Slammer worm exploded
through the Internet in January 2003, and it may have infected as many
as nine million personal computers around the world. [...]
------------------------------
And some people wonder why we no longer have user accessible removable
media drives on our systems, or allow unlimited access to the Internet.
(And no, we don't have microsoft virus-installer-pro or what-ever
they're calling it now.)
Old guy
Harold Stevens
[Snip...]
> And some people wonder why we no longer have user accessible removable
> media drives on our systems, or allow unlimited access to the Internet.
What astonishes me more is M$ and their lapdog vendors insisting on having
USB drives formatted from gitgo with M$ "helpers" installed. The potential
sneakware often includes autoexecuting .EXE startup apps!
Example--here's part of the directory for a Cruzer Micro USB stick I use:
drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 32768 Jun 13 2007 System
drwxr-xr-x 6 root root 32768 Jun 13 2007 Documents
-r-xr-xr-x 1 root root 1110016 Feb 12 2007 LaunchU3.exe
For obvious (to us) security reasons, I don't WANT this crap on media. And
even if I did, the binary format isn't useful to me--I don't do Doze.
Also, it wastes space. Granted, not a lot, but it's still wasteful, to me.
Cruzer et al should provide a network download website for this BS, should
somebody decide they cannot go on living without this handholding. For the
adults among their customers, a pristine clean media is fine, thanks.
Adding insult to injury, I cannot find a way to reformat the stick with an
acceptable Linux filesystem, to remove this sneakware and reclaim space.
As far as I can tell, the three entries are in a sort of ROM area, and the
typical Linux partitioning/filesystem utilities won't touch 'em.
Yet, there are millions of people everyday who plug sticks like this using
unvetted closed software into M$ machines. Then they wonder why their bank
calls them two days later about their accounts being cleaned out.
As you know, pulling deliberate stunts like this at some DOD jobs would've
very likely put us in the Federal Greybar Hotel, pronto.
--
Regards, Weird (Harold Stevens) * IMPORTANT EMAIL INFO FOLLOWS *
Pardon any bogus email addresses (wookie) in place for spambots.
Really, it's (wyrd) at airmail, dotted with net. DO NOT SPAM IT.
I toss GoogleGroup posts from gitgo (http://improve-usenet.org).
Gene E. Bloch
> In <slrngp6bpp.a...@compton.phx.az.us> Moe Trin:
>
> [Snip...]
>
>> And some people wonder why we no longer have user accessible removable
>> media drives on our systems, or allow unlimited access to the Internet.
>
> What astonishes me more is M$ and their lapdog vendors insisting on having
> USB drives formatted from gitgo with M$ "helpers" installed. The potential
> sneakware often includes autoexecuting .EXE startup apps!
>
> Example--here's part of the directory for a Cruzer Micro USB stick I use:
>
> drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 32768 Jun 13 2007 System
> drwxr-xr-x 6 root root 32768 Jun 13 2007 Documents
> -r-xr-xr-x 1 root root 1110016 Feb 12 2007 LaunchU3.exe
>
> For obvious (to us) security reasons, I don't WANT this crap on media. And
> even if I did, the binary format isn't useful to me--I don't do Doze.
>
> Also, it wastes space. Granted, not a lot, but it's still wasteful, to me.
It looks like you bought a U3 thumbdrive. They are sold that way - on
purpose - to support a family of portable applications that run from the
USB drive.
<SNIP>
--
Gene E. Bloch letters0x40blochg0x2Ecom
Ed
Hash: SHA256
Harold Stevens <woo...@aces.localdomain> wrote in
news:slrngp6m8s...@aces.localdomain:
Unfortunately, the only way I know of is to plug it into a
windows machine and use the uninstall option buried within
the menu of the laucher that executes when you plug it in.
At least, that's what I ended up having to do
- --
http://blogdoofus.com
http://tinfoilchef.com
http://www.domaincarryout.com
Un-official Freenet 0.5 alternative download
http://peculiarplace.com/freenet/
Mixminion Message Sender, Windows GUI Frontend for Mixminion
http://peculiarplace.com/mixminion-message-sender/
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Indi
>
> Harold Stevens <woo...@aces.localdomain> wrote in
>> the stick with an acceptable Linux filesystem, to remove
>> this sneakware and reclaim space.
>
> Unfortunately, the only way I know of is to plug it into a
> windows machine and use the uninstall option buried within
> the menu of the laucher that executes when you plug it in.
>
> At least, that's what I ended up having to do
>
What about WINE?
--
indi
Ed
Hash: SHA256
Indi <in...@JayaSriRadhe.local> wrote in
news:slrngp8im...@jayasriradhe.local:
No idea. At the time all I had was a housefull of windows
machines. Still do now that the laptop I was going to
install Ubuntu on died. (seems it was cursed with being made
by HP, the mobo and / or cpu died)
- --
http://blogdoofus.com
http://tinfoilchef.com
http://www.domaincarryout.com
Un-official Freenet 0.5 alternative download
http://peculiarplace.com/freenet/
Mixminion Message Sender, Windows GUI Frontend for Mixminion
http://peculiarplace.com/mixminion-message-sender/
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I R A Darth Aggie
<slrngp6m8s...@aces.localdomain> wrote:
> For obvious (to us) security reasons, I don't WANT this crap on media. And
> even if I did, the binary format isn't useful to me--I don't do Doze.
http://u3.com/support/default.aspx#CQ3
Closed source, so far as I can tell. Not sure if it'll run under wine
or equivalent.
> Yet, there are millions of people everyday who plug sticks like this using
> unvetted closed software into M$ machines. Then they wonder why their bank
> calls them two days later about their accounts being cleaned out.
I was cleaning up an infected laptop for someone, and needed to
sneakernet some files on a USB key. The bastard trojan wrote some
autoexec crap to the USB key, with the expectation that I'd stick it
in some Winbox with autorun on removable media enabled.
> As you know, pulling deliberate stunts like this at some DOD jobs would've
> very likely put us in the Federal Greybar Hotel, pronto.
comp.risks just had a report of a fellow buying a used MP3 player that
allegedly had DOD personnel files on it.
--
Consulting Minister for Consultants, DNRC
I can please only one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow
isn't looking good, either.
I am BOFH. Resistance is futile. Your network will be assimilated.
I R A Darth Aggie
Harold Stevens <woo...@aces.localdomain>, in
<slrngp6m8s...@aces.localdomain> wrote:
> Adding insult to injury, I cannot find a way to reformat the stick with an
> acceptable Linux filesystem, to remove this sneakware and reclaim space.
I forgot to mention the obvious, but you should try to avoid U3 flash
drives from now on.
MartinS
> Harold Stevens <woo...@aces.localdomain> wrote:
>
>> For obvious (to us) security reasons, I don't WANT this crap on
>> media. And even if I did, the binary format isn't useful to me--I
>> don't do Doze.
>
> http://u3.com/support/default.aspx#CQ3
>
> Closed source, so far as I can tell. Not sure if it'll run under wine
> or equivalent.
>
>> Yet, there are millions of people everyday who plug sticks like this
>> using unvetted closed software into M$ machines. Then they wonder
>> why their bank calls them two days later about their accounts being
>> cleaned out.
>
> I was cleaning up an infected laptop for someone, and needed to
> sneakernet some files on a USB key. The bastard trojan wrote some
> autoexec crap to the USB key, with the expectation that I'd stick it
> in some Winbox with autorun on removable media enabled.
>
>> As you know, pulling deliberate stunts like this at some DOD jobs
>> would've very likely put us in the Federal Greybar Hotel, pronto.
>
> comp.risks just had a report of a fellow buying a used MP3 player that
> allegedly had DOD personnel files on it.
Saw that at the bottom of the screen on CNN, so it must be true.
--
Martin S.
Whiskers
> Harold Stevens <woo...@aces.localdomain> wrote:
>
>> acceptable Linux filesystem, to remove this sneakware and reclaim space.
>
> I've always been able to completely reformat USB sticks with Mac OS X
> Disk Utility.
I'm sure I've used mkfs to format a USB key - as 'root' of course. But if
that particular stick has a RAM section with the sneakware in it, then you
can't 're-format' that.
--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
Harold Stevens
[Snip...]
> I'm sure I've used mkfs to format a USB key - as 'root' of course. But if
> that particular stick has a RAM section with the sneakware in it, then you
> can't 're-format' that.
Haven't tried the Mac as an option, but I've been successful reformatting
sticks (other than Cruzers) infested with this kind of sneakware.
As you mention, IMO Cruzers have this in a ROM area on the chip, and that
crap is literally hardwired to stay until hell freezes over.
Per another post: caveat emptor, and never buy Cruzers again.
JMO; YMMV...
Frank Slootweg
> In <slrngpapq9.b...@ID-107770.user.individual.net> Whiskers:
>
> [Snip...]
>
> > I'm sure I've used mkfs to format a USB key - as 'root' of course. But if
> > that particular stick has a RAM section with the sneakware in it, then you
> > can't 're-format' that.
>
> Haven't tried the Mac as an option, but I've been successful reformatting
> sticks (other than Cruzers) infested with this kind of sneakware.
>
> As you mention, IMO Cruzers have this in a ROM area on the chip, and that
> crap is literally hardwired to stay until hell freezes over.
>
> Per another post: caveat emptor, and never buy Cruzers again.
As said, it has nothing to do with Cruzers (or SanDisk), but with the
fact that it is an *U3* stick. A common and understandable mistake to
make when buying, but a mistake nonetheless.
FYI, I made the same mistake, because I thought "*with* U3", can't
hurt, but it does. In my case it wasn't a major problem, because I
could 'reformat' it on Windows. (And then put SystemRescueCD (i.e.
Linux) on it and made a PartImage (i.e. Linux) backup of my XP recovery
partition on it. Who says that Windows and Linux can not work together!?
:-))
Whiskers
I once used Linux to rebuild a Windows 98SE system and data which had
completely dismembered itself. Not something I want to repeat though -
which is partly why I switched completely to Linux soon afterwards :))
Harold Stevens
> On 2009-02-13, Frank Slootweg <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
[Snip...]
>> As said, it has nothing to do with Cruzers (or SanDisk), but with the
>> fact that it is an *U3* stick. A common and understandable mistake to
>> make when buying, but a mistake nonetheless.
Thanks for the reminder; I'll be able to make a more informed buy. :)
BTW, any idea why Windows will reformat U3s while Linux (or rather, my try
with Linux apps) would't?
Details are fuzzy to me ATM but ISTR I couldn't do stuff like fdisk/mke2fs
on that U3 crap. Again, apologies for my lack of specifics.
[Snip...]
> partly why I switched completely to Linux soon afterwards :))
Gee, sounds like I missed a lot of fun, staying mostly with VAXen and *nix
at work when the PC circus came to town in the 90's. :)
Whiskers
> In <slrngpbm40.8...@ID-107770.user.individual.net> Whiskers:
>> On 2009-02-13, Frank Slootweg <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>
> [Snip...]
>
>>> As said, it has nothing to do with Cruzers (or SanDisk), but with the
>>> fact that it is an *U3* stick. A common and understandable mistake to
>>> make when buying, but a mistake nonetheless.
>
> Thanks for the reminder; I'll be able to make a more informed buy. :)
>
> BTW, any idea why Windows will reformat U3s while Linux (or rather, my try
> with Linux apps) would't?
>
> Details are fuzzy to me ATM but ISTR I couldn't do stuff like fdisk/mke2fs
> on that U3 crap. Again, apologies for my lack of specifics.
>
> [Snip...]
>
>> partly why I switched completely to Linux soon afterwards :))
>
> Gee, sounds like I missed a lot of fun, staying mostly with VAXen and *nix
> at work when the PC circus came to town in the 90's. :)
If my office was anything to go by, about one in a hundred people could
get DOS to do useful stuff - and about one in four of them could get it to
repeat the task reliably,
Frank Slootweg
> In <slrngpbm40.8...@ID-107770.user.individual.net> Whiskers:
> > On 2009-02-13, Frank Slootweg <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>
> [Snip...]
>
> >> As said, it has nothing to do with Cruzers (or SanDisk), but with the
> >> fact that it is an *U3* stick. A common and understandable mistake to
> >> make when buying, but a mistake nonetheless.
>
> Thanks for the reminder; I'll be able to make a more informed buy. :)
>
> BTW, any idea why Windows will reformat U3s while Linux (or rather, my try
> with Linux apps) would't?
I said "I could 'reformat' it on Windows". Note the scare quotes. I
just checked my notes again, and apparently 'formatting' involved
running LaunchU3.exe and then telling it to Uninstall -> Uninstall U3
Launchpad, which uninstalls the U3 Launchpad *and* the read-only
drive/partition. After than. I could format (on Windows) the whole stick
as a normal FAT32 filesystem. FYI, mine was also a SanDisk Cruzer.
> Details are fuzzy to me ATM but ISTR I couldn't do stuff like fdisk/mke2fs
> on that U3 crap. Again, apologies for my lack of specifics.
I would imagine that just dd(1)-ing some sufficiently large file to the
raw device of the *whole* stick should do the trick. I haven't checked
the layout in detail, but AFAIK, it's just two *partitions*, one of them
being read-only, *software*-enforced. I.e. I don't think dd(1) cares and
just blasts anything away.
OTOH, I have heard stories about USB-sticks (et al) being permanently
unusable after incorrect formatting, so proceed at your own risk. I'm
*not* paying for a new one! :-)
Frank Slootweg
[...]
> If my office was anything to go by, about one in a hundred people could
> get DOS to do useful stuff - and about one in four of them could get it to
> repeat the task reliably,
In our office, there *was* only one DOS system in a hundred people. Oh
... you meant *MS*-DOS! :-)
Gene E. Bloch
> Harold Stevens <woo...@aces.localdomain> wrote:
>
>> Adding insult to injury, I cannot find a way to reformat the stick with an
>> acceptable Linux filesystem, to remove this sneakware and reclaim space.
>
> Have you considered reformatting on a Mac as an intermediate step?
> I've always been able to completely reformat USB sticks with Mac OS X
> Disk Utility.
I wonder if one of the disk-erase utilities (secure erasure by overwriting
everything with random data) might overwrite the entire file structure,
even on a U3 stick, thus requiring only one operation on the machine you're
using (for various values of "you").
I haven't got either of those ingredients (U3 or eraser) at the moment so I
won't experiment - although obviously I could Google up a disk eraser real
quick.
Whiskers
Actually, we had IBM PC-DOS mostly, for some reason.
Jernej Simončič
> As you mention, IMO Cruzers have this in a ROM area on the chip, and that
> crap is literally hardwired to stay until hell freezes over.
No, you can easily remove it from Windows or OS X. And there are 3rd party
utilities that let you write a custom ISO image to the CD-ROM portion - my
U3 drive now boots SysRescCD when the computer is set up to boot off USB
CD-ROM.
--
begin .sig
< Jernej Simončič ><>◊<>< jernej simoncic at isg si >
end
Jernej Simončič
> BTW, any idea why Windows will reformat U3s while Linux (or rather, my try
> with Linux apps) would't?
It's not reformatting, the Windows application talks directly to the chip
in the USB stick to disable CD-ROM emulation and let you reclaim whole
stick as normal removable drive (I'm actually surprised that there's no
reverse engineered open-source utility that would do this yet).
Frank Slootweg
Same difference!
I'm talking about "DOS", period. I.e. Disc (note 'c'! :-)) Operating
System, a *generic* term, which predates Bill-and-his-mates joint
probably by a couple of decades.
'My' DOS, the HP version, was in the late sixties, and used
fixed-head-per-track discs (drums) of a few (three?) hundred *Kilo*Byte,
about a meter high 19-inch rack space, system price somewhere between
500K and 1M US$.
Robert Miles
news:w0Wjl.18921$cu.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> Sidney Lambe wrote:
>> Information For People Using Googlegroups 8
>>
>>
>> http://www.teranews.com/ Free accounts available must sign up.
>>
>> Been hearing bad things about their free accounts lately.
>>
>> (Beyond the fact that they aren't really free.)
>>
[snip]
>>
>> Sid
>>
Note that Tera News at least seems to be trying to clean up their
problems now. For details, see the new newsgroup teranews.support .
>>
>
> Sid one thing that you must understand is that not everybody owns their
> own computer.
>
> When I did not have my own laptop I used to use google groups so that I
> could access groups from my work computer.
>
> I was not allowed to install any software on my work laptop even though
> the company desperately needed the skills that I could offer.
> Computer departments in big companies are run by arseholes.
> They waste their time hunting down people that install iTunes on their
> computers rather than provide the business tools that workers need.
>
> IT departments would rather let the vast unused capacity of their machines
> go idle than let their employees use some of it for education or
> relaxation
.
Some of them, but not enough, allow installations of programs intended
to help medical research while running at lowest priority, such as those
from:
https://secure.worldcommunitygrid.org/index.jsp
http://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/
I use Windows versions, but at least one of these also offers Linux
and Mac versions. Some companies insist that you only let them
work on medical research workunits outside normal business
hours, or only overnight, though.
These programs increase the amount of electricity the computers
need, but seldom by more than 50 cents (US) worth a day for
each computer. In some parts of the year, they can also increase
the costs of electricity for air conditioning by about three times
that much.
The last I looked, all three of these sites used other people's
computers only for non-profit research.
Robert Miles
Robert Miles
news:w0Wjl.18921$cu.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> Sidney Lambe wrote:
>> Information For People Using Googlegroups 8
>>
>> realize that the Usenet is a worldwide network of news servers
>> that exists quite independently of Google (and existed long
>> before Google was even dreamed of).
>>
>> Nor do they understand that the Usenet is best accessed with
>> applications called newsreaders and that many people on the
>> Usenet filter out posts from googlegroups. Why?
>>
>> 1) It is the source of a great deal of spam.
>>
Also note that there's a new great source of spam, usenet.com.
This one hides enough information in their headers that it's
difficult to block only the spammers using it, but so far the
only other type of posts I've seen from it were definitely
off-topic for the newsgroups they were posted to, so I plan
to block all posts using it as soon as I can add that capability
to my newsreader.
Robert Miles
Robert Miles
news:kn0666x...@magick.net...
> avid fan <us...@example.example.net> wrote:
>> Sidney Lambe wrote:
[snip]
>
> I've got the picture. You were too stuck up to get an old desktop
> which will run Linux with ease. (These can be acquired for next to
> nothing. Or nothing.)
>
> Sid
>
Why not too short of time and/or computer skills to learn how to use
Linux? I've seen many more people for which that is the cause.
Robert Miles
Dan C
> Also note that there's a new great source of spam, usenet.com. This one
> hides enough information in their headers that it's difficult to block
> only the spammers using it, but so far the only other type of posts I've
> seen from it were definitely off-topic for the newsgroups they were
> posted to, so I plan to block all posts using it as soon as I can add
> that capability to my newsreader.
You're not using a newsreader...
> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6001.18000
See? You're using an email client.
--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
Ahhhhhhh!: http://brandybuck.site40.net/pics/relieve.jpg
John Thompson
> http://www.teranews.com/ Free accounts available must sign up.
>
> Been hearing bad things about their free accounts lately.
>
> (Beyond the fact that they aren't really free.)
Ternews has a one-time "set-up" fee of about US$4, after which there is
no charge (just download limits). I suspect this fee was initiated at
least in part to discourage spammers from creating an arbitrarily large
number of throw-away accounts from which to distribute their spam
messages. At $4 a pop, it adds up pretty quickly for a spammer, but for
an individual user it is trivial.
--
John (jo...@os2.dhs.org)
Frank Slootweg
[...]
> Also note that there's a new great source of spam, usenet.com.
> This one hides enough information in their headers that it's
> difficult to block only the spammers using it, but so far the
> only other type of posts I've seen from it were definitely
> off-topic for the newsgroups they were posted to, so I plan
> to block all posts using it as soon as I can add that capability
> to my newsreader.
Which is what, *over six weeks* [1] ago?
[1] <news:ccb63$495fcd4c$5ed00124$48...@cache3.tilbu1.nb.home.nl>
Robert Miles
news:pan.2009.02...@moria.lan...
> On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 11:16:57 -0600, Robert Miles wrote:
>
>> Also note that there's a new great source of spam, usenet.com. This one
>> hides enough information in their headers that it's difficult to block
>> only the spammers using it, but so far the only other type of posts I've
>> seen from it were definitely off-topic for the newsgroups they were
>> posted to, so I plan to block all posts using it as soon as I can add
>> that capability to my newsreader.
>
> You're not using a newsreader...
>
>> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6001.18000
>
> See? You're using an email client.
>
An email/newsreader client, actually.
Jeff▲Relf
Windows Live Mail can download my posts via a Message-ID;
Windows Mail can't ( because of the characters in my Message-IDs ).
Windows Live Mail renders Unicode correctly everywhere
except in the list of posts ( because XOver has no CharSet info );
Windows Mail can't ( for headers, W.M. requires encoded words ).
Also, I suggest you downLoad ( and use ) DejaVu Sans Mono because it has
Chinese, Russian and a wide selection of symbols.
DejaVu is now in my Vista/XP “ Theme ”:
JeffRelf.F-M.FM/Jeff_Relf.Theme
and in my styleSheet overRides for fireFox:
JeffRelf.F-M.FM/userContent.CSS
JeffRelf.F-M.FM/userChrome.CSS