newsreader that allows multiple non-contigious text blocks to be selected
Rahul
blocks of text? I use X-news and it doesn't seem to.
Often, one needs to quote 2-3 different lines or paragraphs in a message
before replying. One can currently only select the smallest superset, click
reply and then delete unwanted portions.
I was wondering if there are any that allow selection of multiple non-
contigious text blocks. In general this is an editor issue I guess. I often
use vim, arguably, one of the most powerful editors out there and even vim
doesn't seem to allow multiple non-contigious block selection.
Is there a reason for this? Just like file explorers allow use of the Ctrl
key (in Win at least) to select multiple files why is this not seen in any
editors / newsreaders? Or maybe it is and I just don't know the right ones!
--
Rahul
Gene E. Bloch
Don't bother with MesNews.
After selecting a block, I tried Ctrl-click and discovered that
Ctrl-click highlights all of the body text regardless of prior
selections. I just learned this researching your question - I guess I
never tried it before.
Ctrl-A highlights nothing in the message, but I just noticed it selects
the entire header pane. Right-click -> Select all highlights the
headers currently visible in the body along with the body text.
Creative user interface design, n'est-ce pas?
--
Gene Bloch 650.366.4267 lettersatblochg.com
Rahul
@news.albasani.net:
> Don't bother with MesNews.
>
> Creative user interface design, n'est-ce pas?
>
Forget Xnews. I haven't even seen any editors that allow me to do this.
Wonder why. Maybe people don't find this feature useful.
--
Rahul
chuckcar
news:Xns9D23E1145F58D66...@188.40.43.245:
> Are there any newsreaders that allow selection of multiple
> non-contigious blocks of text? I use X-news and it doesn't seem to.
>
*Any* editor I've ever used, you mark *one* block of contigous text and
then work with that block. I sense a misunderstanding of how editors work
on your part here.
> Often, one needs to quote 2-3 different lines or paragraphs in a
> message before replying.
And there's a problem doing them one by one? Surely the exact same number
of characters and/or lines won't occur twice in a row. Besides working with
more than one block and not just selecting a number of sucessive lines would
surely be easier.
> One can currently only select the smallest
> superset, click reply and then delete unwanted portions.
>
If you click reply, insert lines after the relevant text surrounded
by a blank - quoted or unquoted line - and then move on to the rest
of the text, removing text irrelevant to your reply as needed.
> I was wondering if there are any that allow selection of multiple non-
> contigious text blocks. In general this is an editor issue I guess. I
> often use vim, arguably, one of the most powerful editors out there
> and even vim doesn't seem to allow multiple non-contigious block
> selection.
>
> Is there a reason for this? Just like file explorers allow use of the
> Ctrl key (in Win at least) to select multiple files why is this not
> seen in any editors / newsreaders? Or maybe it is and I just don't
> know the right ones!
>
That's for moving/deleting/copying files. I sort of see your point, but
surely the danger in getting it wrong more than covers any advantage you
would get. I also see a big risk of missing meaning in the original
message.
Why exactly do you need to have an editor that does this? I truly can't
see the need myself.
--
(setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) )
Gene E. Bloch
I would find it useful if I were better about trimming posts. I agree,
it's awkward to copy to another editor, and then trim and copy & paste
back, and it's awkward to have to quote everything and then trim the
unwanted parts.
Mike Yetto
> Rahul <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote in
> news:Xns9D23E1145F58D66...@188.40.43.245:
>
>> Are there any newsreaders that allow selection of multiple
>> non-contigious blocks of text? I use X-news and it doesn't seem to.
>>
> *Any* editor I've ever used, you mark *one* block of contigous text and
> then work with that block. I sense a misunderstanding of how editors work
> on your part here.
>
I sense a misreading of the post on your part. The OP asked if
there are any editors that *don't* behave that way.
>> Often, one needs to quote 2-3 different lines or paragraphs in a
>> message before replying.
>
> And there's a problem doing them one by one? Surely the exact same number
> of characters and/or lines won't occur twice in a row. Besides working with
> more than one block and not just selecting a number of sucessive lines would
> surely be easier.
>
While replying with some newsreaders the original post is not
available, so your labor intensive, non-scalable "solution" is
not worthwhile.
>> One can currently only select the smallest
>> superset, click reply and then delete unwanted portions.
>>
> If you click reply, insert lines after the relevant text surrounded
> by a blank - quoted or unquoted line - and then move on to the rest
> of the text, removing text irrelevant to your reply as needed.
>
You are describing a posting style not answering the question posted.
>> I was wondering if there are any that allow selection of multiple non-
>> contigious text blocks. In general this is an editor issue I guess. I
>> often use vim, arguably, one of the most powerful editors out there
>> and even vim doesn't seem to allow multiple non-contigious block
>> selection.
>>
>> Is there a reason for this? Just like file explorers allow use of the
>> Ctrl key (in Win at least) to select multiple files why is this not
>> seen in any editors / newsreaders? Or maybe it is and I just don't
>> know the right ones!
>>
> That's for moving/deleting/copying files. I sort of see your point, but
> surely the danger in getting it wrong more than covers any advantage you
> would get. I also see a big risk of missing meaning in the original
> message.
>
That is for selecting items to be moved, etc. Apparently the
danger and "risk of missing meaning in the original message" was
too big for you to avoid.
> Why exactly do you need to have an editor that does this? I truly can't
> see the need myself.
>
>
The reason seems apparant in the OP.
Mike "intuitively obvious to even the most casual observer" Yetto
--
In theory, theory and practice are the same.
In practice they are not.
XS11E
> Are there any newsreaders that allow selection of multiple
> non-contigious blocks of text? I use X-news and it doesn't seem
> to.
No and it has nothing to do with your newsreader, that's how the edit
function (select/cut/copy/paste) works. To select multiple blocks
you'll need to write your own operating system.
--
XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project:
http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/
Whiskers
Does MesNews have no provision for using an external editor? I'm pretty
sure Xnews does.
'Snipping' the superfluous parts of the quoted text while composing a
response doesn't seem to me to be any more onerous than doing the inverse
- ie selecting all the blocks to which a response is planned before firing
up the editor. The number of key-strokes or clicks would seem likely to
work out at much the same, over a large number of responses. HAving the
full text present in the editor makes it easier, I think, to compose the
response - and when deleting the unwanted quoted text, the editor's 'undo'
tool can be useful when the wrong text is selected for deletion.
--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
Rahul
127.0.0.1:
> No and it has nothing to do with your newsreader, that's how the edit
> function (select/cut/copy/paste) works. To select multiple blocks
> you'll need to write your own operating system.
I realize it's a edit feature. But to me invoking all the way down to the
OS seems excessive as a fix.
Of course, I'm ignorant as to how complex feature-rich GUI's like XNews are
written. I suspect they use calls to some standard "edit" library?
--
Rahul
Rahul
news:slrnhnud41.h...@ID-107770.user.individual.net:
> 'Snipping' the superfluous parts of the quoted text while composing a
> response doesn't seem to me to be any more onerous than doing the
> inverse - ie selecting all the blocks to which a response is planned
You are right. It isn't excessively onerous at all. The time when it does
become onerous is more in editor scenarios. e.g. In vim several times if I
want to do an operation I wish I had that multi-select feature. For example
let's say you had a bunch of lines that you wanted to indent + comment out
etc. Now the number of keystrokes required to do the operation is a
constant and scales better if multiple blocks can be selected. I'm sorry if
my point's unclear.
In hindsight, news.software.readers is the wrong forum to ask but the
question. Sorry! But it seemed at least tangentially relevant to
Newsreaders (since that's where a bulk of my editing occurs)
Of course, additional perverse incentive is provided by the fact that, for
some reason, this group seems to have a knowlegablity spike way above the
background of the USENET! ;)
I've posted a similar question on comp.editors (at the risk of being
derided as a multiposter; but I realized in hindsight that this question is
more generally adressed in a editor-specific forum. )
--
Rahul
Rahul
> Does MesNews have no provision for using an external editor? I'm pretty
> sure Xnews does.
>
Yes. Xnews does allow external editors. Problem is that I haven't found one
that supports multi-selecting either.
--
Rahul
Rahul
news:Xns9D24CE59FC9AF...@feeder.eternal-september.org:
> Not quite right. App's can (and some do) implement what OP
> needs.
>
Thanks! Which ones though? I am very curious to know. Even vim, the editor
that I idolize, falls short.
--
Rahul
Whiskers
> Whiskers <catwh...@operamail.com> wrote in
> news:slrnhnud41.h...@ID-107770.user.individual.net:
>
>> 'Snipping' the superfluous parts of the quoted text while composing a
>> response doesn't seem to me to be any more onerous than doing the
>> inverse - ie selecting all the blocks to which a response is planned
>
> You are right. It isn't excessively onerous at all. The time when it does
> become onerous is more in editor scenarios. e.g. In vim several times if I
> want to do an operation I wish I had that multi-select feature. For example
> let's say you had a bunch of lines that you wanted to indent + comment out
> etc. Now the number of keystrokes required to do the operation is a
> constant and scales better if multiple blocks can be selected. I'm sorry if
> my point's unclear.
Vi can handle macros and multiple buffers and multiple 'windows'; so can
many other 'technical' or 'programming' editors.
> In hindsight, news.software.readers is the wrong forum to ask but the
> question. Sorry! But it seemed at least tangentially relevant to
> Newsreaders (since that's where a bulk of my editing occurs)
But you wouldn't use Xnews to write code, I hope!
> Of course, additional perverse incentive is provided by the fact that, for
> some reason, this group seems to have a knowlegablity spike way above the
> background of the USENET! ;)
>
> I've posted a similar question on comp.editors (at the risk of being
> derided as a multiposter; but I realized in hindsight that this question is
> more generally adressed in a editor-specific forum. )
That sounds like a more suitable group for your real question!
chuckcar
news:slrn20100219180...@may.eternal-september.org:
> chuckcar <ch...@nil.car> writes and having writ moves on.
>> Rahul <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote in
>> news:Xns9D23E1145F58D66...@188.40.43.245:
>>
>>> Are there any newsreaders that allow selection of multiple
>>> non-contigious blocks of text? I use X-news and it doesn't seem to.
>>>
>> *Any* editor I've ever used, you mark *one* block of contigous text
>> and then work with that block. I sense a misunderstanding of how
>> editors work on your part here.
>>
>
> I sense a misreading of the post on your part. The OP asked if
> there are any editors that *don't* behave that way.
>
>>> Often, one needs to quote 2-3 different lines or paragraphs in a
>>> message before replying.
>>
>> And there's a problem doing them one by one? Surely the exact same
>> number of characters and/or lines won't occur twice in a row. Besides
>> working with more than one block and not just selecting a number of
>> sucessive lines would surely be easier.
>>
>
> While replying with some newsreaders the original post is not
> available, so your labor intensive, non-scalable "solution" is
> not worthwhile.
>
Then *that* is the problem. A pretty blatent one IMHO. Certainly xnews -
mentioned by the OP doesn't have that problem.
chuckcar
news:slrn20100219180...@may.eternal-september.org:
> chuckcar <ch...@nil.car> writes and having writ moves on.
>> Rahul <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote in
>> news:Xns9D23E1145F58D66...@188.40.43.245:
> The reason seems apparant in the OP.
>
> Mike "intuitively obvious to even the most casual observer" Yetto
I have serious doubts about this. Please explain if you can.
Chuck - the man that found out that uk.motorsport.formula1 is abreviated
to us.motorsport.formula1 by xnews.
Mike Yetto
> Mike Yetto <mye...@nycap.invalid> wrote in
> news:slrn20100219180...@may.eternal-september.org:
>
>> chuckcar <ch...@nil.car> writes and having writ moves on.
>>> Rahul <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote in
>>> news:Xns9D23E1145F58D66...@188.40.43.245:
>
>> The reason seems apparant in the OP.
>>
>> Mike "intuitively obvious to even the most casual observer" Yetto
>
> I have serious doubts about this. Please explain if you can.
>
>
Explain it to *you*? I don't think anyone can do that.
> Chuck - the man that found out that uk.motorsport.formula1 is abreviated
> to us.motorsport.formula1 by xnews.
>
>
Wow, with such skill you've probably found change in the cushions
of you favorite chair.
Mike "not the comfy chair!" Yetto
chuckcar
> chuckcar <ch...@nil.car> writes and having writ moves on.
>> Mike Yetto <mye...@nycap.invalid> wrote in
>> news:slrn20100219180...@may.eternal-september.org:
>>
>>> chuckcar <ch...@nil.car> writes and having writ moves on.
>>>> Rahul <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote in
>>>> news:Xns9D23E1145F58D66...@188.40.43.245:
>>
>>> The reason seems apparant in the OP.
>>>
>>> Mike "intuitively obvious to even the most casual observer" Yetto
>>
>> I have serious doubts about this. Please explain if you can.
>>
>>
>
> Explain it to *you*? I don't think anyone can do that.
>
I guess *you* don't understand it either then.
>> Chuck - the man that found out that uk.motorsport.formula1 is
>> abreviated to us.motorsport.formula1 by xnews.
>>
>>
>
> Wow, with such skill you've probably found change in the cushions
> of you favorite chair.
I see. Just being an ahole troll.
Mike Yetto
> Mike Yetto <mye...@nycap.invalid> wrote in
> news:slrn201002201152...@may.eternal-september.org:
>
>> chuckcar <ch...@nil.car> writes and having writ moves on.
>>> Mike Yetto <mye...@nycap.invalid> wrote in
>>> news:slrn20100219180...@may.eternal-september.org:
>>>>
>>>> Mike "intuitively obvious to even the most casual observer" Yetto
>>>
>>> I have serious doubts about this. Please explain if you can.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Explain it to *you*? I don't think anyone can do that.
>>
>
> I guess *you* don't understand it either then.
>
Chucktard, you have never understood any problem explained in a
newsgroup. Following your advice is generally dangerous and not
pointing this out can expose the OP to worse problems.
In this case, however, you could not have caused any serious
problems.
Mike "well done" Yetto
Gene E. Bloch
I don't recall using the word 'onerous' :-)
The whole thing for me is teapot-sized anyway.
I have no idea if MesNews allows an external editor. If I used to know,
I have forgotten, and I don't care enough to look.
Recall that I was really replying to someone else, telling him that
MesNews natively lacks what he wants. Maybe Rahul can even use an
external editor in his current newsreader. Yes: it's Xnews. I have done
that in Xnews, but my knowledge isn't very current.
Shmuel Metz
at 10:23 PM, chuckcar <ch...@nil.car> said:
>*Any* editor I've ever used, you mark *one* block of contigous text and
>then work with that block.
That tells me more about you than it does about editors.
>I sense a misunderstanding of how editors work on your part here.
I sense a lack of experience on your part here.
>And there's a problem doing them one by one?
Yes.
>Surely the exact same number of characters and/or lines won't
>occur twice in a row.
Surely the Sun is a yellow dwarf. Your statement, if true, would still be
irrelevant.
>If you click reply, insert lines after the relevant text surrounded by a
>blank - quoted or unquoted line - and then move on to the rest of the
>text, removing text irrelevant to your reply as needed.
That's exactly what he want to avoid.
>That's for moving/deleting/copying files. I sort of see your point, but
>surely the danger in getting it wrong more than covers any advantage you
> would get.
What danger? What about the danger of deleting too little or too much if
he continues to use your labor intensive mode?
>I also see a big risk of missing meaning in the original message.
I see a bigger risk of missing meaning if it's swamped by large amounts of
irrelevant quoted text. Also, RFC 1855 says
- Be brief without being overly terse. When replying to a message,
include enough original material to be understood but no more. It
is extremely bad form to simply reply to a message by including
all the previous message: edit out all the irrelevant material.
and
- If you are sending a reply to a message or a posting be sure you
summarize the original at the top of the message, or include just
enough text of the original to give a context. This will make
sure readers understand when they start to read your response.
Since NetNews, especially, is proliferated by distributing the
postings from one host to another, it is possible to see a
response to a message before seeing the original. Giving context
helps everyone. But do not include the entire original!
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT <http://patriot.net/~shmuel>
Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action. I reserve the
right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail. Reply to
domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact me. Do not
reply to spam...@library.lspace.org
Shmuel Metz
at 04:07 AM, Rahul <nos...@nospam.invalid> said:
>Are there any newsreaders that allow selection of multiple non-contigious
> blocks of text?
Yes, although the wording of your question is ambiguous.
Specifically, MR/2 ICE has an option to display the original message in a
separate panel while composing a reply, and to pasted quoted from the
clipboard. What it is missing is an intelligent reflow of pasted text,
e.g., to convert
>foo
>>bar
>>long line continued from bar
to
>foo
>>bar long line continued from bar
>Often, one needs to quote 2-3 different lines or paragraphs in a message
> before replying. One can currently only select the smallest superset,
>click reply and then delete unwanted portions.
Well, with your client; I don't have to do that. Alas, my client is
abandonware and one of these days I'll have to switch to something else.
>Is there a reason for this?
Concurrent selection of multiple blocks raises issues for facilities like
marking from selected position to cursor. You have to carefully design
your semantics in order to retain functionality and to preserve familiar
keyboard/pointer mappings, e.g., Shift-click combinations. As to the split
window approach, I suspect that some text editors already support it and
that what is missing is an interface from your client to the editor asking
it to edit two files.
