A noiseless patient spider
Ted S.
its "Organization" header? I ask because I had found a nymshifting
troll on one group, and that seemed to be a common header in all the
posts that I could score on. Unfortunately, I've been getting a bunch
of false positives. Several of the posts have eternal-september.org
M-IDs, but some of them have Agent's obnoxious 4ax.com M-ID. There's no
newsreader in common, since at least one of the offending posts was sent
from slrn.
--
Ted S.
fedya at hughes dot net
Now blogging at http://justacineast.blogspot.com
Dan C
> Is Eternal September forcing the phrase "A noiseless patient spider" as
> its "Organization" header?
Yes.
--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
"Bother!" said Pooh, as he wiped the vomit from his chin.
Usenet Improvement Project: http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/
KristleBawl
> Is Eternal September forcing the phrase "A noiseless patient spider"
> as its "Organization" header?
Yes, if the user has not set their own, Eternal-September inserts that
organization header line.
--
All taglines are busy..One will be with you shortly...
KristleBawl's Taglines by Tagzilla 0.066.2
http://xsidebar.mozdev.org/modifiedmailnews.html#tagzilla
Instabird development http://www.instantbird.com/
VanguardLH
> Is Eternal September forcing the phrase "A noiseless patient spider" as
> its "Organization" header? I ask because I had found a nymshifting
> troll on one group, and that seemed to be a common header in all the
> posts that I could score on. Unfortunately, I've been getting a bunch
> of false positives. Several of the posts have eternal-september.org
> M-IDs, but some of them have Agent's obnoxious 4ax.com M-ID. There's no
> newsreader in common, since at least one of the offending posts was sent
> from slrn.
In 40tude Dialog, the NNTP client you use (and me, too), define whatever
non-blank value you want in your identity config if you want your own
Organization string. If you don't specify one, ET will insert their own.
Mike Dee
> Is Eternal September forcing the phrase "A noiseless patient
> spider" as its "Organization" header?
No.
That is, not only E-S does it. it is the server software that they use
that does it.
--
dee
Mike Dee
Mike Dee <mik...@emteedee.invalid> wrote:
Erm... maybe I was getting mixed up with Motzarella, which was E-S
before it became E-S (my cheap lame excuse).
Although, this link threw me:
<http://www10.giscafe.com/ng/article.php?id=3191&group=comp.soft-sys.gis.esri#3191>
Usenet has been around for how long? ;-)
--
dee
Ted S.
> Ted S. expressed an opinion:
>> Is Eternal September forcing the phrase "A noiseless patient spider"
>> as its "Organization" header?
>
> Yes, if the user has not set their own, Eternal-September inserts that
> organization header line.
Thanks everybody. I guess I have to look for something new to score on.
:-(
skeeter
"Mike Dee" <emte...@emteedee.invalid> wrote in message
news:emteedee-FCCD15...@feeder.eternal-september.org...
since '69. it was part of the u.s plot to take over cambodia. lol.
Doug Freyburger
> Ted S. wrote:
>
>> Is Eternal September forcing the phrase "A noiseless patient spider" as
>> its "Organization" header?
>
> Yes.
No. It's a default value. That's not the same thing as a forced value.
When I started posting through eternal-september I noticed it so I
filled in a value. It is still in my posts as I set it. It is not
ignored and forced to the default value.
I just looked at my old setting. It was obsolete so I changed it to
something else.
s|b
> but some of them have Agent's obnoxious 4ax.com M-ID.
Obnoxious? :-? Anyway, a small change in AGENT.INI can fix this...
BTW why does your MID say "motzarella.org" instead of "albasani.net" ?
That's just plain obnoxious! ;-)
--
s|b
Dan C
> Dan C wrote:
>> Ted S. wrote:
>>
>>> Is Eternal September forcing the phrase "A noiseless patient spider"
>>> as its "Organization" header?
>>
>> Yes.
>
> No. It's a default value. That's not the same thing as a forced value.
True, and correct.
Gro...@jeffrelf.f-m.fm
My news·server* also adds an “Organization:” line. *: Glorb
This post is a test to see if I can over·ride it.
Phred Phungus
> On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 21:29:40 -0500, KristleBawl wrote:
>
>> Ted S. expressed an opinion:
>>> Is Eternal September forcing the phrase "A noiseless patient spider"
>>> as its "Organization" header?
>> Yes, if the user has not set their own, Eternal-September inserts that
>> organization header line.
>
> Thanks everybody. I guess I have to look for something new to score on.
> :-(
>
What are you talking about?
--
fred
Gro...@jeffrelf.f-m.fm
Unlike Google, Mozilla and MicroSoft... Houghi can't quote UTF·8.
He quotes zero·width format control points* as, “ > ? ”**.
*: e.g. U.FeFF, the UTF·8 signature ( UTF·16 Byte Order Mark )
**: news:slrnhmlduk...@penne.houghi
Ted S.
>> Thanks everybody. I guess I have to look for something new to score
>> on. : -(
>>
>
> What are you talking about?
If you go back to my original post, I said I was scoring on that because
a seeming nym-shifter in another group had that header in common. It
wasn't until I started getting false positives that I realized Eternal
September might actually setting a too cute by half Organization header.
Bert Hyman
<fe...@hughes.spam> wrote:
> Is Eternal September forcing the phrase "A noiseless patient spider"
> as its "Organization" header? I ask because I had found a nymshifting
> troll on one group, and that seemed to be a common header in all the
> posts that I could score on. Unfortunately, I've been getting a bunch
> of false positives. Several of the posts have eternal-september.org
> M-IDs, but some of them have Agent's obnoxious 4ax.com M-ID. There's
> no newsreader in common, since at least one of the offending posts was
> sent from slrn.
Since you're willing to bear the overhead of scoring on headers that
aren't in the overview record, take a look at the "Injection-Info:"
header.
EternalSeptember puts some info in the Injection-Info header that seems
to be constant for any individual user.
--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN be...@iphouse.com
Mike Easter
> "Ted S."
>> I ask because I had found a nymshifting
>> troll on one group,
Maybe you have overdiagnosed the nymshifting. That is, maybe you are
seeing more than one trollish persona and you are trying to ascribe the
problem to one instead of multiple.
>> Several of the posts have eternal-september.org
>> M-IDs, but some of them have Agent's obnoxious 4ax.com M-ID.
That means that either your target is changing useragent or you have
more than one target.
>> There's
>> no newsreader in common, since at least one of the offending posts was
>> sent from slrn.
Ditto.
> Since you're willing to bear the overhead of scoring on headers that
> aren't in the overview record, take a look at the "Injection-Info:"
> header.
>
> EternalSeptember puts some info in the Injection-Info header that seems
> to be constant for any individual user.
e-s injection-info header content posting-account="string" is unique for
a given e-s account. Anything that is (willing to be) multiple
useragents can easily solve the multiple e-s (or other news account)
problem.
Sometimes I think that people work too hard at filtering algorithmically
and not hard enough at just ignoring mentally.
--
Mike Easter
Phred Phungus
> On Thu, 04 Feb 2010 02:13:36 -0700, Phred Phungus wrote:
>
>>> Thanks everybody. I guess I have to look for something new to score
>>> on. : -(
>>>
>> What are you talking about?
>
> If you go back to my original post, I said I was scoring on that because
> a seeming nym-shifter in another group had that header in common. It
> wasn't until I started getting false positives that I realized Eternal
> September might actually setting a too cute by half Organization header.
>
I'm confident that I've never read Eternal September. I'm curious what
other people think are newsgroups worth giving a shit about.
--
Mike Yetto
Do try to keep up. Eternal-September is a free, text only news
server that was formerly called Motzarella. The software used
will default a missing or empty Organization header to "A
noiseless patient spider".
Mike "was the first eternal september named for you?" Yetto
--
In theory, theory and practice are the same.
In practice they are not.
Mike Dee
Well...
I'm speechless. Thank <insert fave deity> and the Yetto's of this
multi-verse..
--
dee
Mike Dee
> If you go back to my original post, I said I was scoring on that because
> a seeming nym-shifter in another group had that header in common.
Speaking of which... if you supplied an actual header leading to one of
the nyms, perhaps we could discover something useful for you to use.
KFs on any kind of E-S "spider" header was a long-shot to begin with, no?
--
dee
Dan C
What? Could you translate that to something approximating English?
Ted S.
> Ted S. wrote:
>
>> If you go back to my original post, I said I was scoring on that
>> because a seeming nym-shifter in another group had that header in
>> common.
>
> Speaking of which... if you supplied an actual header leading to one
> of the nyms, perhaps we could discover something useful for you to
> use.
I'm guessing that <hkh0p6$579$1...@news.eternal-september.org> and
<hkek6k$ud7$1...@news.eternal-september.org> are from the same poster. It
looks like the Injection-Info header might help, since they have that in
common.
> KFs on any kind of E-S "spider" header was a long-shot to begin with,
> no?
Why? I figured such a silly name for the Organization was coming from
somebody who had set it in the client himself, not a name set by the
server. If the posts had had a common Organization header like
motzarella, I would have realized that was being set by the server. It
wasn't until I started getting false positives that I realized I should
be looking for something different.
Bert Hyman
<fe...@hughes.spam> wrote:
> On Sat, 06 Feb 2010 00:46:11 +1100, Mike Dee wrote:
>
>> Ted S. wrote:
>>
>>> If you go back to my original post, I said I was scoring on that
>>> because a seeming nym-shifter in another group had that header in
>>> common.
>>
>> Speaking of which... if you supplied an actual header leading to one
>> of the nyms, perhaps we could discover something useful for you to
>> use.
>
> I'm guessing that <hkh0p6$579$1...@news.eternal-september.org> and
><hkek6k$ud7$1...@news.eternal-september.org> are from the same poster. It
> looks like the Injection-Info header might help, since they have that
> in common.
If that's really a problem (and not just something you find personally
annoying), drop a line to ES's management; he's seriously interested in
maintaining a clean system.
John F. Morse
> Why? I figured such a silly name for the Organization was coming from
> somebody who had set it in the client himself, not a name set by the
> server. If the posts had had a common Organization header like
> motzarella, I would have realized that was being set by the server. It
> wasn't until I started getting false positives that I realized I should
> be looking for something different.
>
You believe a name that describes YOU is silly?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_september
--
John
When a person has -- whether they knew it or not -- already rejected the Truth, by what means do they discern a lie?
Doug Freyburger
>
> I'm confident that I've never read Eternal September.
Eternal September is a server not a newsgroup, so your confidence is
misplaced. If you read this message you're read Eternal September.
Mike Easter
> "Ted S."
>> I'm guessing that <hkh0p6$579$1...@news.eternal-september.org> and
>> <hkek6k$ud7$1...@news.eternal-september.org> are from the same poster. It
>> looks like the Injection-Info header might help, since they have that
>> in common.
That is from the same posting account. The 2 posts have the first
U2FsdGVkX1 in the posting account in the injection info, and other
common characteristics ie useragent and 'style' or handwriting, ie he is
partial to Germanic umlauted words, that is, they are accessible in his
keyboard.
> If that's really a problem (and not just something you find personally
> annoying), drop a line to ES's management; he's seriously interested in
> maintaining a clean system.
There is no reason that poster/account would be admonished for anything
in either of those posts.
I have no idea what is bother TedS about those.
--
Mike Easter
VanguardLH
> I figured such a silly name for the Organization
Maybe if you knew the poem from which the phrase was extracted then it might
not seem so silly depending on how you wish to interpret it. Take a look at
my Organization header. What might it mean? Maybe nothing to you. Is it
sillier to have a blank (or non-existent header) or a non-blank value? Why
would anything you specify be less silly than a default value or anyone
else's value? Say you specified your company name. Sure would be silly to
the rest of us since we couldn't give a gnat's fart as to where you work. I
also use Albasani but it could be seen as silly to have an Organization
header's value which is already reflected as a host node in the Path header.
http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5536
3.2.9. Organization
The Organization header field is a short phrase identifying the poster's
organization.
"organization" is not defined. It is, in effect, a comment field where you
put whatever you want as its value. If the poster is nymshifting, they
might be using Identities defined in their NNTP client or changing it
on-the-fly so the Organization header is constantly changing. If the "A
noiseless patient spider" as the Organization header showed in each of their
nymshifted postings, yeah, you could use it to identify that they were using
Eternal-September but using the Message-ID would be a better choice for that
(unless they were also having their NNTP client generate the MID) or the
Path header would suffice (if you configure your NNTP client to download the
bodies of the posts which would then include all headers so you could also
test on the non-overview headers).
> was coming from somebody who had set it in the client himself, not a name
> set by the server. If the posts had had a common Organization header
> like motzarella, I would have realized that was being set by the server.
> It wasn't until I started getting false positives that I realized I
> should be looking for something different.
The NNTP server owner is into cutsy names.
"A noiseless patient spider" was from a poem he read by Walt Whitman in his
"Leaves of Grass" book.
(http://quotations.about.com/cs/poemlyrics/a/A_Noiseless_Pat.htm)
The "Eternal-September" server name was taken from old slang given to the
wave of boobs in Usenet that appeared when AOL connected to Usenet and then
each September when another wave of students washed into Usenet when they
got free access through their school's computers.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_september)
Make your own guess as to the possible double entendre with the use of
"Banana" in his moniker.
Mike Dee
> On Sat, 06 Feb 2010 00:46:11 +1100, Mike Dee wrote:
>
>> Ted S. wrote:
>>
>>> If you go back to my original post, I said I was scoring on that
>>> because a seeming nym-shifter in another group had that header
>>> in common.
>>
>> Speaking of which... if you supplied an actual header leading to
>> one of the nyms, perhaps we could discover something useful for
>> you to use.
>
> I'm guessing that <hkh0p6$579$1...@news.eternal-september.org> and
> <hkek6k$ud7$1...@news.eternal-september.org> are from the same
> poster. It looks like the Injection-Info header might help, since
> they have that in common.
Then I suggest that you try it on the "Injection-Info" header:
Injection-Info: vVOShemOfMseDa/gY/r6A
And see how that goes...
But you could also try an _AND_ conditional score:
[^rec\.sport\.tennis$]
Score: -9999
Message-ID: eternal.september
User-Agent: Thunderbird\s2\.0\.0\.23\s\(Windows
Organization: noiseless patient spider
This might incur less FPs than on the Organization header alone.
That is: posters in that NG may be posting using that vers of
T'bird and they may be using E-S but its possible that they
aren't using both at the same time, let alone not setting an
Organization header.
You may need to convert the above to suit your reader
or Hamster.
>> KFs on any kind of E-S "spider" header was a long-shot to begin
>> with, no?
>
> Why?
Because it was a "stab in the dark"? You hadn't come across the
phrase until now, and at the time, it seemed to be unique to you
therefore useable in a KF... until the FPs started to kick in?
No offence was intended.
--
dee
Phred Phungus
Touche.