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Can old UseNet threads be changed or added?
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John Doe
Jan 30, 2012, 3:22:36 PM1/30/12
to
Is there a way to predate a UseNet message so that it looks like the
message came from five years ago? Including on everybody's server,
and so on, so that it looks real. Also assuming that the message you
want to change or add is within a thread with multiple reply authors.
Wondering how difficult, if possible.
Mainly curious.
Thanks.
message came from five years ago? Including on everybody's server,
and so on, so that it looks real. Also assuming that the message you
want to change or add is within a thread with multiple reply authors.
Wondering how difficult, if possible.
Mainly curious.
Thanks.
John Doe
Jan 30, 2012, 3:27:17 PM1/30/12
to
The answer is fairly obvious to me, but I'm no expert.
Maybe the fair question would be assuming the post you want to
insert is a single post without reply authors.
Or the question would be how to construct a thread. Fortunately,
that is how I reworded the subject line before posting.
Maybe the fair question would be assuming the post you want to
insert is a single post without reply authors.
Or the question would be how to construct a thread. Fortunately,
that is how I reworded the subject line before posting.
G. Morgan
Jan 30, 2012, 3:53:46 PM1/30/12
to
G. Morgan
Jan 30, 2012, 3:54:43 PM1/30/12
to
Frank Slootweg
Jan 30, 2012, 4:42:47 PM1/30/12
to
*post* such an article, i.e. that it is accepted on *your* News server.
Maybe *your* News server is even 'stupid' enough to try to send such an
article to its peers.
But there's *no way* that such an article is *accepted* by *other*
News servers, because News server don't accept articles which are more
than a reasonable time (30 days IIRC) old.
MartinS
Jan 31, 2012, 12:50:32 AM1/31/12
to
the battery needs replacing. A couple of e-mails got out with that time
stamp, but I don't think I made any usenet posts before I corrected it.
--
Martin S.
Ralph Fox
Jan 31, 2012, 4:00:15 AM1/31/12
to
On 30 Jan 2012 21:42:47 GMT, in message <9ooh6n...@mid.individual.net>
Even if the message were (hypothetically) accepted, the article number
would give the OP's game away. The article number would be in sequence
with current articles, not in sequence with articles 5 years old.
--
Kind regards
Ralph
would give the OP's game away. The article number would be in sequence
with current articles, not in sequence with articles 5 years old.
--
Kind regards
Ralph
Stephen Wolstenholme
Jan 31, 2012, 6:23:25 AM1/31/12
to
if it is still available from servers you can't get a copies on
clients.
Steve
--
Neural network software applications, help and support.
Neural Network Software. http://www.npsl1.com
EasyNN-plus. Neural Networks plus. http://www.easynn.com
SwingNN. Forecast with Neural Networks. http://www.swingnn.com
JustNN. Just Neural Networks. http://www.justnn.com
Mike Yetto
Jan 31, 2012, 8:00:02 AM1/31/12
to
Ralph Fox <-rf-nz-@-.invalid> writes and having writ moves on.
The chain of reference headers would be another major clue
indicating a message with a bad date, not an old message.
If you just left off the reference header then it would be a post
with a bad date that starts a new thread.
Mike "and worthless in either case" Yetto
--
In theory, theory and practice are the same.
In practice they are not.
indicating a message with a bad date, not an old message.
If you just left off the reference header then it would be a post
with a bad date that starts a new thread.
Mike "and worthless in either case" Yetto
--
In theory, theory and practice are the same.
In practice they are not.
Frank Slootweg
Jan 31, 2012, 3:03:23 PM1/31/12
to
Mike Yetto <mye...@nycap.invalid> wrote:
[...]
> The chain of reference headers would be another major clue
> indicating a message with a bad date, not an old message.
What kind of clue do you mean, given that the poster can put any and
all MIDs in any sequence in his "References:" header?
[...]
[...]
> The chain of reference headers would be another major clue
> indicating a message with a bad date, not an old message.
all MIDs in any sequence in his "References:" header?
[...]
Adam H. Kerman
Jan 31, 2012, 4:25:14 PM1/31/12
to
header so it'll thread properly on any server that hasn't expired the
articles in the long dead thread that accepts his followup article with
the bad date. But I'm not sure what Mike's getting at either.
Frank Slootweg
Jan 31, 2012, 5:02:07 PM1/31/12
to
"References:" header has the right MIDs in the right way and order?
Mike Yetto
Feb 1, 2012, 7:59:27 AM2/1/12
to
Adam H. Kerman <a...@chinet.com> writes and having writ moves on.
The new post would have the chain showing that post is new, but
all of the others that might still be available would have a
different chain. Changing the reference chain on those other
posts would be an involved, expensive and probably fruitless
enterprise.
Mike "but you're free to try" Yetto
all of the others that might still be available would have a
different chain. Changing the reference chain on those other
posts would be an involved, expensive and probably fruitless
enterprise.
Mike "but you're free to try" Yetto
Adam H. Kerman
Feb 1, 2012, 10:35:49 AM2/1/12
to
any other followup that itself wasn't a precursor article to another
followup.
Rather than changing references headers on actual articles in that thread,
wouldn't you create a bunch of sock puppets to post followups to that
article?
Mike Yetto
Feb 1, 2012, 11:28:32 AM2/1/12
to
Adam H. Kerman <a...@chinet.com> writes and having writ moves on.
>Mike Yetto <mye...@nycap.invalid> wrote:
>>Adam H. Kerman <a...@chinet.com> writes and having writ moves on.
>>>Frank Slootweg <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>>>>Mike Yetto <mye...@nycap.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>The chain of reference headers would be another major clue
>>>>>indicating a message with a bad date, not an old message.
>>>>What kind of clue do you mean, given that the poster can put any and
>>>>all MIDs in any sequence in his "References:" header?
>>>Why would the poster do that, instead of forming a proper References
>>>header so it'll thread properly on any server that hasn't expired the
>>>articles in the long dead thread that accepts his followup article with
>>>the bad date. But I'm not sure what Mike's getting at either.
>>The new post would have the chain showing that post is new, but
>>all of the others that might still be available would have a
>>different chain. Changing the reference chain on those other
>>posts would be an involved, expensive and probably fruitless
>>enterprise.
>Mike Yetto <mye...@nycap.invalid> wrote:
>>Adam H. Kerman <a...@chinet.com> writes and having writ moves on.
>>>Frank Slootweg <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>>>>Mike Yetto <mye...@nycap.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>The chain of reference headers would be another major clue
>>>>>indicating a message with a bad date, not an old message.
>>>>What kind of clue do you mean, given that the poster can put any and
>>>>all MIDs in any sequence in his "References:" header?
>>>Why would the poster do that, instead of forming a proper References
>>>header so it'll thread properly on any server that hasn't expired the
>>>articles in the long dead thread that accepts his followup article with
>>>the bad date. But I'm not sure what Mike's getting at either.
>>The new post would have the chain showing that post is new, but
>>all of the others that might still be available would have a
>>different chain. Changing the reference chain on those other
>>posts would be an involved, expensive and probably fruitless
>>enterprise.
>In the thread tree, it would show up as the end of a branch, same as
>any other followup that itself wasn't a precursor article to another
>followup.
>Rather than changing references headers on actual articles in that thread,
>wouldn't you create a bunch of sock puppets to post followups to that
>article?
If the goal is to fake a post that looks like it was part of the
>any other followup that itself wasn't a precursor article to another
>followup.
>Rather than changing references headers on actual articles in that thread,
>wouldn't you create a bunch of sock puppets to post followups to that
>article?
thread from some time before it was actually posted, then it will
have to have a references chain that puts it in the proper place.
As you noted, this will either be at the end of a branch where
the false date will be more evident or at the start of a
subthread filled by sock-puppets where it will be slightly less
noticeable, but just as easily identified as an attempt to
manipulate the thread.
Creating a false chain with legitimate posts appearing to follow
his will be at odds with the reference chains on all other posts
and be proof of a deliberate attempt to manipulate the tread.
Mike "he can't change which post you replied to" Yetto
Adam H. Kerman
Feb 1, 2012, 4:03:58 PM2/1/12
to
nefarious purpose? That would force it to be threaded, but as no
article in followup to the Message-ID would actually reference the
substituted article, it would still look obviously fake.
John Doe
Feb 1, 2012, 4:33:24 PM2/1/12
to
"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk chinet.com> wrote:
> Is the OP trying to reuse an old Message-ID to accomplish his
> nefarious purpose?
As you can tell by the original post... There is no nefarious
> Is the OP trying to reuse an old Message-ID to accomplish his
> nefarious purpose?
purpose. I'm not trying to do anything. I just asked a question.
--
Thanks to the replies.
Adam H. Kerman
Feb 1, 2012, 5:27:40 PM2/1/12
to
change humanity forever.
John Doe
Feb 1, 2012, 5:54:33 PM2/1/12
to
I was wondering about disclosure of inventions, not necessarily
for legal purpose or profit. I asked also out of general
curiosity.
An idea can be shot down as having been thought of before,
regardless of the originator's identity. So the only thing that
matters is the difficulty of forging a post or a thread. Again,
not necessarily for legal purpose or profit.
Mike Yetto
Feb 1, 2012, 6:46:24 PM2/1/12
to
John Doe <jd...@usenetlove.invalid> writes and having writ moves on.
Regardless of your reasons, I don't think it can be done without
being easily detected. Without you reasons be stated or
obviously benign the predominant assumption will most likely be
that they aren't.
Mike "not obviously benign to me" Yetto
being easily detected. Without you reasons be stated or
obviously benign the predominant assumption will most likely be
that they aren't.
Mike "not obviously benign to me" Yetto
John Doe
Feb 1, 2012, 8:20:41 PM2/1/12
to
Mike Yetto <myetto1 nycap.invalid> wrote:
> John Doe <jdoe usenetlove.invalid> writes and having writ moves
generally interesting or curiosity provoking.
--
> John Doe <jdoe usenetlove.invalid> writes and having writ moves
>>"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk chinet.com> wrote:
>>> Is the OP trying to reuse an old Message-ID to accomplish his
>>> nefarious purpose?
>
>>As you can tell by the original post... There is no nefarious
>>purpose. I'm not trying to do anything. I just asked a question.
>
> Regardless of your reasons, I don't think it can be done without
> being easily detected. Without you reasons be stated or
> obviously benign the predominant assumption will most likely be
> that they aren't.
But I did state my reason as "mainly curious". Apparently it is
>>> Is the OP trying to reuse an old Message-ID to accomplish his
>>> nefarious purpose?
>
>>As you can tell by the original post... There is no nefarious
>>purpose. I'm not trying to do anything. I just asked a question.
>
> Regardless of your reasons, I don't think it can be done without
> being easily detected. Without you reasons be stated or
> obviously benign the predominant assumption will most likely be
> that they aren't.
generally interesting or curiosity provoking.
--
»Q«
Feb 1, 2012, 8:50:32 PM2/1/12
to
On 01 Feb 2012 21:33:24 GMT
There's no way to tell that from the OP, and there's no way to tell it
now. Maybe out of mere idle curiosity someone asked about how to
do something whose only practical purposes are nefarious, maybe not.
It's certainly no crime to spend your time wondering about how to do a
Bad Thing, but if you go around talking about it and asking questions
about how to do it, you can't blame people for thinking you want to do
the Bad Thing no matter how often you tell them you don't.
now. Maybe out of mere idle curiosity someone asked about how to
do something whose only practical purposes are nefarious, maybe not.
It's certainly no crime to spend your time wondering about how to do a
Bad Thing, but if you go around talking about it and asking questions
about how to do it, you can't blame people for thinking you want to do
the Bad Thing no matter how often you tell them you don't.
John Doe
Feb 1, 2012, 9:17:31 PM2/1/12
to
My question was not about how to forge a post, I asked whether it
was possible and how difficult it might be. Everybody else
exercised their freedom of speech and talked about how it might be
done. That's okay too IMO FWIW, but it doesn't suggest anything
about anybody.
--
=?UTF-8?B?wrtRwqs=?= <boxcars gmx.net> wrote:
> Path: news.astraweb.com!border6.newsrouter.astraweb.com!feed.news.qwest.net!mpls-nntp-05.inet.qwest.net!feeder.erje.net!news2.arglkargh.de!news.karotte.org!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
> From: =?UTF-8?B?wrtRwqs=?= <boxcars gmx.net>
> Newsgroups: news.software.readers
> Subject: Re: Can old UseNet threads be changed or added?
> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 19:50:32 -0600
> Organization: none
> Lines: 19
> Message-ID: <20120201195032.0483f959 fuchsia.remarqs.net>
> References: <4f26fc0c$0$26942$c3e8da3$fdf4f6af news.astraweb.com> <slrn20120201075458.699.twooffive may.eternal-september.org> <jgbm4l$1a0$1 news.albasani.net> <slrn20120201111825.861.twooffive may.eternal-september.org> <jgc9bu$h6f$1 news.albasani.net> <4f29afa4$0$24504$c3e8da3$e408f015 news.astraweb.com>
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> X-Trace: individual.net ar8GH8LQeR/GnldxcLQwuAyAVcypK28XxX2x59jMC93vnzwThJ
> Cancel-Lock: sha1:qjWFFiIHsLX4uhQ1ZNVvTC5oUmw=
> X-Newsreader: Claws Mail 3.7.10 (GTK+ 2.24.8; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
was possible and how difficult it might be. Everybody else
exercised their freedom of speech and talked about how it might be
done. That's okay too IMO FWIW, but it doesn't suggest anything
about anybody.
--
=?UTF-8?B?wrtRwqs=?= <boxcars gmx.net> wrote:
> Path: news.astraweb.com!border6.newsrouter.astraweb.com!feed.news.qwest.net!mpls-nntp-05.inet.qwest.net!feeder.erje.net!news2.arglkargh.de!news.karotte.org!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
> From: =?UTF-8?B?wrtRwqs=?= <boxcars gmx.net>
> Newsgroups: news.software.readers
> Subject: Re: Can old UseNet threads be changed or added?
> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 19:50:32 -0600
> Organization: none
> Lines: 19
> Message-ID: <20120201195032.0483f959 fuchsia.remarqs.net>
> References: <4f26fc0c$0$26942$c3e8da3$fdf4f6af news.astraweb.com> <slrn20120201075458.699.twooffive may.eternal-september.org> <jgbm4l$1a0$1 news.albasani.net> <slrn20120201111825.861.twooffive may.eternal-september.org> <jgc9bu$h6f$1 news.albasani.net> <4f29afa4$0$24504$c3e8da3$e408f015 news.astraweb.com>
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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> Cancel-Lock: sha1:qjWFFiIHsLX4uhQ1ZNVvTC5oUmw=
> X-Newsreader: Claws Mail 3.7.10 (GTK+ 2.24.8; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
>
> On 01 Feb 2012 21:33:24 GMT
> On 01 Feb 2012 21:33:24 GMT
Shmuel Metz
Feb 1, 2012, 9:26:43 PM2/1/12
to
In <slrn201202011118...@may.eternal-september.org>, on
02/01/2012
original article, then it is harder to identify the forgery.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT <http://patriot.net/~shmuel>
Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action. I reserve the
right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail. Reply to
domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact me. Do not
reply to spam...@library.lspace.org
02/01/2012
at 11:28 AM, Mike Yetto <mye...@nycap.invalid> said:
>Creating a false chain with legitimate posts appearing to follow his
>will be at odds with the reference chains on all other posts and be
>proof of a deliberate attempt to manipulate the tread.
If his Message-ID and References header fields are copied from the
>Creating a false chain with legitimate posts appearing to follow his
>will be at odds with the reference chains on all other posts and be
>proof of a deliberate attempt to manipulate the tread.
original article, then it is harder to identify the forgery.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT <http://patriot.net/~shmuel>
Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action. I reserve the
right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail. Reply to
domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact me. Do not
reply to spam...@library.lspace.org
»Q«
Feb 1, 2012, 10:28:54 PM2/1/12
to
On 02 Feb 2012 02:17:31 GMT
protestations to the contrary.
"Faux Naïveté" WBAGNFARB.
> > Path:
> > news.astraweb.com!border6.newsrouter.astraweb.com!feed.news.qwest.net!mpls-nntp-05.inet.qwest.net!feeder.erje.net!news2.arglkargh.de!news.karotte.org!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
> > From: =?UTF-8?B?wrtRwqs=?= <boxcars gmx.net>
Crossposting my full headers! Now you've done it! The extra cycles
the server-side spam filters might need[1] could generate enough heat
to accelerate climate change. And you did it so stealthily, without
suggesting anything whatsoever about yourself except that you IQ may be
as high as the mid 50s.
John Doe <jd...@usenetlove.invalid> wrote:
> My question was not about how to forge a post, I asked whether it
> was possible and how difficult it might be. Everybody else
> exercised their freedom of speech and talked about how it might be
> done. That's okay too IMO FWIW, but it doesn't suggest anything
> about anybody.
Of course it suggests something about you. So do your multiple
> My question was not about how to forge a post, I asked whether it
> was possible and how difficult it might be. Everybody else
> exercised their freedom of speech and talked about how it might be
> done. That's okay too IMO FWIW, but it doesn't suggest anything
> about anybody.
protestations to the contrary.
"Faux Naïveté" WBAGNFARB.
> > Path:
> > news.astraweb.com!border6.newsrouter.astraweb.com!feed.news.qwest.net!mpls-nntp-05.inet.qwest.net!feeder.erje.net!news2.arglkargh.de!news.karotte.org!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
> > From: =?UTF-8?B?wrtRwqs=?= <boxcars gmx.net>
the server-side spam filters might need[1] could generate enough heat
to accelerate climate change. And you did it so stealthily, without
suggesting anything whatsoever about yourself except that you IQ may be
as high as the mid 50s.
Adam H. Kerman
Feb 1, 2012, 11:56:08 PM2/1/12
to
every one of your posts. Thanks for illustrating the point.
Adam H. Kerman
Feb 1, 2012, 11:57:26 PM2/1/12
to
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spam...@library.lspace.org.invalid> wrote:
>on 02/01/2012 at 11:28 AM, Mike Yetto <mye...@nycap.invalid> said:
>>Creating a false chain with legitimate posts appearing to follow his
>>will be at odds with the reference chains on all other posts and be
>>proof of a deliberate attempt to manipulate the tread.
>If his Message-ID and References header fields are copied from the
>original article, then it is harder to identify the forgery.
But what server would accept a second article with the same Message-ID?
>on 02/01/2012 at 11:28 AM, Mike Yetto <mye...@nycap.invalid> said:
>>Creating a false chain with legitimate posts appearing to follow his
>>will be at odds with the reference chains on all other posts and be
>>proof of a deliberate attempt to manipulate the tread.
>If his Message-ID and References header fields are copied from the
>original article, then it is harder to identify the forgery.
»Q«
Feb 2, 2012, 12:16:38 AM2/2/12
to
On Thu, 2 Feb 2012 04:56:08 +0000 (UTC)
Which of my Bad Things do you mean? MIME?
Adam H. Kerman
Feb 2, 2012, 12:27:26 AM2/2/12
to
»Q«
Feb 2, 2012, 12:45:45 AM2/2/12
to
On Thu, 2 Feb 2012 05:27:26 +0000 (UTC)
Nah, I've lost interest.
"Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
> »Q« <box...@gmx.net> wrote:
> >"Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
> »Q« <box...@gmx.net> wrote:
> >"Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
John Doe
Feb 2, 2012, 1:33:35 AM2/2/12
to
troll, changed subject line
=?UTF-8?B?wrtRwqs=?= <boxcars gmx.net> wrote:
> Path: news.astraweb.com!border6.newsrouter.astraweb.com!news.astraweb.com!border6.a.newsrouter.astraweb.com!feed.xsnews.nl!border-3.ams.xsnews.nl!xlned.com!feeder7.xlned.com!news2.euro.net!feeds.phibee-telecom.net!news.osn.de!diablo2.news.osn.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
> Subject: [OT] troll feeding (was: Can old UseNet threads be changed or added?)
> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 21:28:54 -0600
> Organization: none
> Lines: 26
> Message-ID: <20120201212854.7d7e2a2c fuchsia.remarqs.net>
> References: <4f26fc0c$0$26942$c3e8da3$fdf4f6af news.astraweb.com> <slrn20120201075458.699.twooffive may.eternal-september.org> <jgbm4l$1a0$1 news.albasani.net> <slrn20120201111825.861.twooffive may.eternal-september.org> <jgc9bu$h6f$1 news.albasani.net> <4f29afa4$0$24504$c3e8da3$e408f015 news.astraweb.com> <20120201195032.0483f959 fuchsia.remarqs.net> <4f29f23b$0$32089$c3e8da3$40d4fd75 news.astraweb.com>
> Mime-Version: 1.0
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> Cancel-Lock: sha1:T8f4AdZqM2/9uIurExKq7baXfAg=
>
>> > Path:
>> > news.astraweb.com!border6.newsrouter.astraweb.com!feed.news.qwest.net!m
=?UTF-8?B?wrtRwqs=?= <boxcars gmx.net> wrote:
> Path: news.astraweb.com!border6.newsrouter.astraweb.com!news.astraweb.com!border6.a.newsrouter.astraweb.com!feed.xsnews.nl!border-3.ams.xsnews.nl!xlned.com!feeder7.xlned.com!news2.euro.net!feeds.phibee-telecom.net!news.osn.de!diablo2.news.osn.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
> Subject: [OT] troll feeding (was: Can old UseNet threads be changed or added?)
> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 21:28:54 -0600
> Organization: none
> Lines: 26
> Message-ID: <20120201212854.7d7e2a2c fuchsia.remarqs.net>
> References: <4f26fc0c$0$26942$c3e8da3$fdf4f6af news.astraweb.com> <slrn20120201075458.699.twooffive may.eternal-september.org> <jgbm4l$1a0$1 news.albasani.net> <slrn20120201111825.861.twooffive may.eternal-september.org> <jgc9bu$h6f$1 news.albasani.net> <4f29afa4$0$24504$c3e8da3$e408f015 news.astraweb.com> <20120201195032.0483f959 fuchsia.remarqs.net> <4f29f23b$0$32089$c3e8da3$40d4fd75 news.astraweb.com>
> Mime-Version: 1.0
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> Cancel-Lock: sha1:T8f4AdZqM2/9uIurExKq7baXfAg=
> X-Newsreader: Claws Mail 3.7.10 (GTK+ 2.24.8; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
>
>
> On 02 Feb 2012 02:17:31 GMT
> John Doe <jdoe usenetlove.invalid> wrote:
>
>> My question was not about how to forge a post, I asked whether it
>> was possible and how difficult it might be. Everybody else
>> exercised their freedom of speech and talked about how it might be
>> done. That's okay too IMO FWIW, but it doesn't suggest anything
>> about anybody.
>
> Of course it suggests something about you. So do your multiple
> protestations to the contrary.
>
> "Faux NaÇîvetǸ" WBAGNFARB.
>
>> My question was not about how to forge a post, I asked whether it
>> was possible and how difficult it might be. Everybody else
>> exercised their freedom of speech and talked about how it might be
>> done. That's okay too IMO FWIW, but it doesn't suggest anything
>> about anybody.
>
> Of course it suggests something about you. So do your multiple
> protestations to the contrary.
>
>
>> > Path:
>> > news.astraweb.com!border6.newsrouter.astraweb.com!feed.news.qwest.net!m
Shmuel Metz
Feb 2, 2012, 5:58:12 AM2/2/12
to
In <jgd53m$pfg$3...@news.albasani.net>, on 02/02/2012
at 04:57 AM, "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> said:
>But what server would accept a second article with the same
>Message-ID?
One that didn't have the original article. One that honors supersedes.
>But what server would accept a second article with the same
>Message-ID?
Mike Yetto
Feb 2, 2012, 8:03:52 AM2/2/12
to
John Doe <jd...@usenetlove.invalid> writes and having writ moves on.
>troll, changed subject line
You're very far off with that assessment. However, your original
and subsequent posts are looking less likely to be benign.
Mike "try to learn how to use post properly" Yetto
>troll, changed subject line
You're very far off with that assessment. However, your original
and subsequent posts are looking less likely to be benign.
Mike "try to learn how to use post properly" Yetto
Adam H. Kerman
Feb 2, 2012, 8:12:49 AM2/2/12
to
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spam...@library.lspace.org.invalid> wrote:
>on 02/02/2012 at 04:57 AM, "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> said:
>>But what server would accept a second article with the same
>>Message-ID?
>One that didn't have the original article. One that honors supersedes.
Wouldn't the superseded article have a different Message-ID than the
>>But what server would accept a second article with the same
>>Message-ID?
>One that didn't have the original article. One that honors supersedes.
article being cancelled?
David Canzi
Feb 2, 2012, 11:05:13 AM2/2/12
to
John Doe <jd...@usenetlove.invalid> wrote:
>Mike Yetto <myetto1 nycap.invalid> wrote:
>
>> John Doe <jdoe usenetlove.invalid> writes and having writ moves
>>>"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk chinet.com> wrote:
>
>>>> Is the OP trying to reuse an old Message-ID to accomplish his
>>>> nefarious purpose?
>>
>>>As you can tell by the original post... There is no nefarious
>>>purpose. I'm not trying to do anything. I just asked a question.
>>
>> Regardless of your reasons, I don't think it can be done without
>> being easily detected. Without you reasons be stated or
>> obviously benign the predominant assumption will most likely be
>> that they aren't.
>
>But I did state my reason as "mainly curious".
Hi! I'd like to know if there's a way to build a giant mirror
>Mike Yetto <myetto1 nycap.invalid> wrote:
>
>> John Doe <jdoe usenetlove.invalid> writes and having writ moves
>>>"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk chinet.com> wrote:
>
>>>> Is the OP trying to reuse an old Message-ID to accomplish his
>>>> nefarious purpose?
>>
>>>As you can tell by the original post... There is no nefarious
>>>purpose. I'm not trying to do anything. I just asked a question.
>>
>> Regardless of your reasons, I don't think it can be done without
>> being easily detected. Without you reasons be stated or
>> obviously benign the predominant assumption will most likely be
>> that they aren't.
>
>But I did state my reason as "mainly curious".
in orbit that can concentrate enough sunlight onto the earth's
surface to incinerate Washington DC.
Mainly curious,
E. S. Blofeld
--
David Canzi | "I put a dollar in a change machine. Nothing changed."
| -- George Carlin
John Doe
Feb 2, 2012, 12:24:10 PM2/2/12
to
Troll, changed the subject line
Mike Yetto <myetto1 nycap.invalid> wrote:
> Path: news.astraweb.com!border6.newsrouter.astraweb.com!feed.news.qwest.net!mpls-nntp-06.inet.qwest.net!news.glorb.com!feeder.erje.net!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!mx04.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
> From: Mike Yetto <myetto1 nycap.invalid>
> Newsgroups: news.software.readers,free.UseNet,free.spam
> Subject: Re: [OT] troll feeding
> Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2012 08:03:52 -0500
> Organization: slrn Mafia / Xnews Tong (emeritus)
> Lines: 10
> Message-ID: <slrn20120202080056.257.twooffive may.eternal-september.org>
> References: <4f26fc0c$0$26942$c3e8da3$fdf4f6af news.astraweb.com> <slrn20120201075458.699.twooffive may.eternal-september.org> <jgbm4l$1a0$1 news.albasani.net> <slrn20120201111825.861.twooffive may.eternal-september.org> <jgc9bu$h6f$1 news.albasani.net> <4f29afa4$0$24504$c3e8da3$e408f015 news.astraweb.com> <20120201195032.0483f959 fuchsia.remarqs.net> <4f29f23b$0$32089$c3e8da3$40d4fd75 news.astraweb.com> <20120201212854.7d7e2a2c fuchsia.remarqs.net> <4f2a2e3f$0$32074$c3e8da3$40d4fd75 news.astraweb.com>
> Injection-Info: may.eternal-september.org; posting-host="xGKpppg/qGlWwUXu8fNPTA"; logging-data="29770"; mail-complaints-to="abuse eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19Z9r71BrLtA69fH33BmvfsIr3Tqh8V0+k="
> User-Agent: slrn/pre1.0.0-26/co (Linux; 64bit)
> X-The-Usenet-Improvement-Project: =?UTF-8?Q?http=3A=2F=2Ftwovoyagers=2Ec?= =?UTF-8?Q?om=2Fimprove=2Dusenet=2Eorg=2F?=
> X-No-Bananas: Yes
> Cancel-Lock: sha1:wIOsTR8G3Ay24qqJL6LF8DFxHsg= sha1:OLx+x/TuSpuL1vaV4pEcFLgy5ME=
>
> John Doe <jdoe usenetlove.invalid> writes and having writ moves on.
Mike Yetto <myetto1 nycap.invalid> wrote:
> From: Mike Yetto <myetto1 nycap.invalid>
> Newsgroups: news.software.readers,free.UseNet,free.spam
> Subject: Re: [OT] troll feeding
> Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2012 08:03:52 -0500
> Organization: slrn Mafia / Xnews Tong (emeritus)
> Lines: 10
> Message-ID: <slrn20120202080056.257.twooffive may.eternal-september.org>
> References: <4f26fc0c$0$26942$c3e8da3$fdf4f6af news.astraweb.com> <slrn20120201075458.699.twooffive may.eternal-september.org> <jgbm4l$1a0$1 news.albasani.net> <slrn20120201111825.861.twooffive may.eternal-september.org> <jgc9bu$h6f$1 news.albasani.net> <4f29afa4$0$24504$c3e8da3$e408f015 news.astraweb.com> <20120201195032.0483f959 fuchsia.remarqs.net> <4f29f23b$0$32089$c3e8da3$40d4fd75 news.astraweb.com> <20120201212854.7d7e2a2c fuchsia.remarqs.net> <4f2a2e3f$0$32074$c3e8da3$40d4fd75 news.astraweb.com>
> Injection-Info: may.eternal-september.org; posting-host="xGKpppg/qGlWwUXu8fNPTA"; logging-data="29770"; mail-complaints-to="abuse eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19Z9r71BrLtA69fH33BmvfsIr3Tqh8V0+k="
> User-Agent: slrn/pre1.0.0-26/co (Linux; 64bit)
> X-The-Usenet-Improvement-Project: =?UTF-8?Q?http=3A=2F=2Ftwovoyagers=2Ec?= =?UTF-8?Q?om=2Fimprove=2Dusenet=2Eorg=2F?=
> X-No-Bananas: Yes
> Cancel-Lock: sha1:wIOsTR8G3Ay24qqJL6LF8DFxHsg= sha1:OLx+x/TuSpuL1vaV4pEcFLgy5ME=
>
> John Doe <jdoe usenetlove.invalid> writes and having writ moves on.
Adam H. Kerman
Feb 2, 2012, 4:25:01 PM2/2/12
to
Shmuel Metz
Feb 3, 2012, 10:00:10 AM2/3/12
to
In <jge24h$euu$2...@news.albasani.net>, on 02/02/2012
at 01:12 PM, "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> said:
>Wouldn't the superseded article have a different Message-ID than the
>article being cancelled?
Not if the poster puts in the same message-id.
>Wouldn't the superseded article have a different Message-ID than the
>article being cancelled?
Adam H. Kerman
Feb 3, 2012, 12:53:55 PM2/3/12
to
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spam...@library.lspace.org.invalid> wrote:
>on 02/02/2012 at 01:12 PM, "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> said:
>>Wouldn't the superseded article have a different Message-ID than the
>>article being cancelled?
>Not if the poster puts in the same message-id.
That can't be called a superseded article, then. Supersede includes
>>Wouldn't the superseded article have a different Message-ID than the
>>article being cancelled?
>Not if the poster puts in the same message-id.
the command to cancel the original article, which won't be executed
given the substitute article would use the same message-ID. No site
willing to accept a superseded article would process that one.
I'll buy your theory that maybe, possible, a site that never received
the original article could accept the one with the forged date and
forged Message-ID, if for whatever reason, it wasn't careful about
parsing dates. However, if it never got the original, it probably
never got any of its precursors nor followups, so who would be fooled?
It would appear to be a followup article without precursors as it
has nothing to thread with.
»Q«
Feb 3, 2012, 5:34:57 PM2/3/12
to
On Fri, 3 Feb 2012 17:53:55 +0000 (UTC)
honor by replacing the old message with a new one having the same mid.
I don't think it ever got into a released draft, just kicked around on
mailing lists.
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spam...@library.lspace.org.invalid> wrote:
> >on 02/02/2012 at 01:12 PM, "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> said:
>
> >>Wouldn't the superseded article have a different Message-ID than the
> >>article being cancelled?
>
> >Not if the poster puts in the same message-id.
>
> That can't be called a superseded article, then. Supersede includes
> the command to cancel the original article, which won't be executed
> given the substitute article would use the same message-ID. No site
> willing to accept a superseded article would process that one.
There was talk about introducing a Replaces header servers could
> >on 02/02/2012 at 01:12 PM, "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> said:
>
> >>Wouldn't the superseded article have a different Message-ID than the
> >>article being cancelled?
>
> >Not if the poster puts in the same message-id.
>
> That can't be called a superseded article, then. Supersede includes
> the command to cancel the original article, which won't be executed
> given the substitute article would use the same message-ID. No site
> willing to accept a superseded article would process that one.
honor by replacing the old message with a new one having the same mid.
I don't think it ever got into a released draft, just kicked around on
mailing lists.
Shmuel Metz
Feb 4, 2012, 8:01:36 PM2/4/12
to
In <jgh6vj$ler$1...@news.albasani.net>, on 02/03/2012
doesn't contain a cancel, and neither RFC 5536 nor RFC 5537 specifies
matching the Message-ID and Supersedes header fileds of an article
against each other. I agree, however, that they should the next time
they are updated.
>However, if it never got the original, it probably never got any
>of its precursors nor followups, so who would be fooled?
I'm addressing a technical issue, not trying to help the OP do
whatever it is that he's trying to accomplish ;-)
at 05:53 PM, "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> said:
>That can't be called a superseded article, then. Supersede includes
>the command to cancel the original article, which won't be executed
>given the substitute article would use the same message-ID.
What gives you that idea? Supersed has the effect of a cancel; it
>That can't be called a superseded article, then. Supersede includes
>the command to cancel the original article, which won't be executed
>given the substitute article would use the same message-ID.
doesn't contain a cancel, and neither RFC 5536 nor RFC 5537 specifies
matching the Message-ID and Supersedes header fileds of an article
against each other. I agree, however, that they should the next time
they are updated.
>However, if it never got the original, it probably never got any
>of its precursors nor followups, so who would be fooled?
whatever it is that he's trying to accomplish ;-)
Adam H. Kerman
Feb 5, 2012, 1:32:48 PM2/5/12
to
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spam...@library.lspace.org.invalid> wrote:
>on 02/03/2012 at 05:53 PM, "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> said:
>>That can't be called a superseded article, then. Supersede includes
>>the command to cancel the original article, which won't be executed
>>given the substitute article would use the same message-ID.
>What gives you that idea? Supersed has the effect of a cancel; it
>doesn't contain a cancel, and neither RFC 5536 nor RFC 5537 specifies
>matching the Message-ID and Supersedes header fileds of an article
>against each other. I agree, however, that they should the next time
>they are updated.
Didn't I just write that? Among the actions Supersedes performs is the
>>That can't be called a superseded article, then. Supersede includes
>>the command to cancel the original article, which won't be executed
>>given the substitute article would use the same message-ID.
>What gives you that idea? Supersed has the effect of a cancel; it
>doesn't contain a cancel, and neither RFC 5536 nor RFC 5537 specifies
>matching the Message-ID and Supersedes header fileds of an article
>against each other. I agree, however, that they should the next time
>they are updated.
cancellation of the original article. Like that better?
It occurs to me, belatedly, that Son-Of got Supersedes wrong. It never
should have been a header. It should have been a command used in the
Control header.
Shmuel Metz
Feb 5, 2012, 8:07:02 PM2/5/12
to
In <jgmi0g$isc$3...@news.albasani.net>, on 02/05/2012
No.
>Among the actions Supersedes performs is the
>cancellation of the original article.
Which is not the new article.
>It occurs to me, belatedly, that Son-Of got Supersedes wrong. It
>never should have been a header. It should have been a command used
>in the Control header.
That would conflict with the restrictions imposed on the handling of
control messages.
No.
>Among the actions Supersedes performs is the
>cancellation of the original article.
>It occurs to me, belatedly, that Son-Of got Supersedes wrong. It
>never should have been a header. It should have been a command used
>in the Control header.
control messages.
Adam H. Kerman
Feb 6, 2012, 3:56:18 PM2/6/12
to
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spam...@library.lspace.org.invalid> wrote:
I don't except quote editing to remove context in a serious discussion,
so I'm not bothering to read the rest.
John Doe
Feb 24, 2012, 11:25:33 PM2/24/12
to
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap library.lspace.org.invalid>
wrote:
> I'm addressing a technical issue, not trying to help the OP do
> whatever it is that he's trying to accomplish ;-)
Again...
I was wondering about disclosure of inventions, not necessarily
for legal purpose or profit. I asked also out of general
curiosity.
An idea can be shot down as having been thought of before,
regardless of the originator's identity. So the only thing that
matters is the difficulty of forging a post or a thread. Again,
not necessarily for legal purpose or profit.
wrote:
> I'm addressing a technical issue, not trying to help the OP do
> whatever it is that he's trying to accomplish ;-)
I was wondering about disclosure of inventions, not necessarily
for legal purpose or profit. I asked also out of general
curiosity.
An idea can be shot down as having been thought of before,
regardless of the originator's identity. So the only thing that
matters is the difficulty of forging a post or a thread. Again,
not necessarily for legal purpose or profit.
»Q«
Feb 25, 2012, 12:26:58 PM2/25/12
to
On 25 Feb 2012 04:25:33 GMT
feasibility of the kind of fraud you just explained again.
> Again, not necessarily for legal purpose or profit.
That's not incompatible with "possibly for illegal purpose and/or
profit". But you knew that.
John Doe <jd...@usenetlove.invalid> wrote:
> Again...
>
> I was wondering about disclosure of inventions, not necessarily
> for legal purpose or profit. I asked also out of general
> curiosity.
>
> An idea can be shot down as having been thought of before,
> regardless of the originator's identity. So the only thing that
> matters is the difficulty of forging a post or a thread.
You were clear from the start about your intention to ask about the
> Again...
>
> I was wondering about disclosure of inventions, not necessarily
> for legal purpose or profit. I asked also out of general
> curiosity.
>
> An idea can be shot down as having been thought of before,
> regardless of the originator's identity. So the only thing that
> matters is the difficulty of forging a post or a thread.
feasibility of the kind of fraud you just explained again.
> Again, not necessarily for legal purpose or profit.
profit". But you knew that.
John Doe
Feb 25, 2012, 8:57:10 PM2/25/12
to
A troll with a personal problem
=?UTF-8?B?wrtRwqs=?= <boxcars gmx.net> wrote:
> Path: news.astraweb.com!border6.newsrouter.astraweb.com!news.glorb.com!feeder.erje.net!news-1.dfn.de!news.dfn.de!news.informatik.hu-berlin.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
> Subject: Re: Can old UseNet threads be changed or added?
> Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2012 11:26:58 -0600
> Organization: none
> Lines: 20
> Message-ID: <20120225112658.378eb1f9 fuchsia.remarqs.net>
> References: <4f26fc0c$0$26942$c3e8da3$fdf4f6af news.astraweb.com> <4f2a6c44$6$fuzhry+tra$mr2ice news.patriot.net> <jge24h$euu$2 news.albasani.net> <4f2bf67a$7$fuzhry+tra$mr2ice news.patriot.net> <jgh6vj$ler$1 news.albasani.net> <4f2dd4f0$8$fuzhry+tra$mr2ice news.patriot.net> <4f4862bd$0$2168$c3e8da3$c8b7d2e6 news.astraweb.com>
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Cancel-Lock: sha1:n1rOOL8TphvLC+whMpCmxcHq/k4=
=?UTF-8?B?wrtRwqs=?= <boxcars gmx.net> wrote:
> Path: news.astraweb.com!border6.newsrouter.astraweb.com!news.glorb.com!feeder.erje.net!news-1.dfn.de!news.dfn.de!news.informatik.hu-berlin.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
> Subject: Re: Can old UseNet threads be changed or added?
> Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2012 11:26:58 -0600
> Organization: none
> Lines: 20
> Message-ID: <20120225112658.378eb1f9 fuchsia.remarqs.net>
> References: <4f26fc0c$0$26942$c3e8da3$fdf4f6af news.astraweb.com> <4f2a6c44$6$fuzhry+tra$mr2ice news.patriot.net> <jge24h$euu$2 news.albasani.net> <4f2bf67a$7$fuzhry+tra$mr2ice news.patriot.net> <jgh6vj$ler$1 news.albasani.net> <4f2dd4f0$8$fuzhry+tra$mr2ice news.patriot.net> <4f4862bd$0$2168$c3e8da3$c8b7d2e6 news.astraweb.com>
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> X-Trace: individual.net FnnCeTGaz9s9cZc8vNwNQwZibfsvplB0ioYRmaKXOkNvVMRivG
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Cancel-Lock: sha1:n1rOOL8TphvLC+whMpCmxcHq/k4=
> X-Newsreader: Claws Mail 3.7.10 (GTK+ 2.24.8; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
>
>
> On 25 Feb 2012 04:25:33 GMT
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