Dealing with borderline troll personalities online
whitsunmorn
joined a lifestyle group in hopes of connecting with people in my
area. However, there is one individual who continuously attacks me
(and only me) in not-so-subtle ways. If I post some knowledge I have
on a subject, she will immediately refute it and attempt, in a very
condescending way, to make me look like an idiot. Or, if I post my
subjective feelings about a subject, she will make a really harsh
remark about how maybe I "deserve" to feel sad/disappointed/(other
negative emotion). I've never insulted her, and I certainly don't
bait her. I've tried pacifying her, and I've tried ignoring her
entirely, but nothing I can post about is "right." But her postings
seem to take on a life of their own and disrupt the group. I feel
particularly bad about this, that my presence on a group would cause
so many problems for everyone else.
How should I handle this? I would like to be able to firmly stand up
for my convictions, but I also don't want to feed the flames.
TIA!
LS
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Alan Connor
>
>
> Hi, hoping that some of you here might be able to help out. I've
> joined a lifestyle group in hopes of connecting with people in my
> area. However, there is one individual who continuously attacks me
> (and only me) in not-so-subtle ways. If I post some knowledge I have
> on a subject, she will immediately refute it and attempt, in a very
> condescending way, to make me look like an idiot. Or, if I post my
> subjective feelings about a subject, she will make a really harsh
> remark about how maybe I "deserve" to feel sad/disappointed/(other
> negative emotion). I've never insulted her, and I certainly don't
> bait her. I've tried pacifying her, and I've tried ignoring her
> entirely, but nothing I can post about is "right." But her postings
> seem to take on a life of their own and disrupt the group. I feel
> particularly bad about this, that my presence on a group would cause
> so many problems for everyone else.
>
> How should I handle this? I would like to be able to firmly stand up
> for my convictions, but I also don't want to feed the flames.
>
> TIA!
>
> LS
>
>
Trolls aren't the only ones that troll, and you'll have to deal with
her the same way you have to deal with any other troll:
DO NOT RESPOND TO HER POSTS
Do not respond to the posts of anyone who responds to her.
I'm sorry to say that there is no other solution.
Not one that will work, anyway.
--------
Usually, if someone is calling someone a "troll", it is a troll.
But myself and many others have been accused of being trolls by those
who did not like what we had to say, although it was coherent, on-topic,
and non-abusive.
My first thought upon seeing your cute alias and the word "troll" in
the Subject was that *you* were a troll.
On most other newsgroups I wouldn't even have read your post.
You *could* be a troll, and your entire story above a fabrication.
We'll see. I am willing to feed a troll for a while to teach people
how to defeat them.
AC
Alan Lichtenstein
> Hi, hoping that some of you here might be able to help out. I've
> joined a lifestyle group in hopes of connecting with people in my
> area. However, there is one individual who continuously attacks me
> (and only me) in not-so-subtle ways. If I post some knowledge I have
> on a subject, she will immediately refute it and attempt, in a very
> condescending way, to make me look like an idiot. Or, if I post my
> subjective feelings about a subject, she will make a really harsh
> remark about how maybe I "deserve" to feel sad/disappointed/(other
> negative emotion). I've never insulted her, and I certainly don't
> bait her. I've tried pacifying her, and I've tried ignoring her
> entirely, but nothing I can post about is "right." But her postings
> seem to take on a life of their own and disrupt the group. I feel
> particularly bad about this, that my presence on a group would cause
> so many problems for everyone else.
>
> How should I handle this? I would like to be able to firmly stand up
> for my convictions, but I also don't want to feed the flames.
Unfortunately, most newsgroups are unmoderated, and perhaps, this is as it
should be considering our Constitutional rights to free speech. But in
exercising those rights, it is assumed that all will also exercise good
judgment and proper decorum with respect to comments made. Sadly, this is
not the case; just lurk in some of the political NG's to see what I mean.
With regard to your problem, you have several options. If the remarks are
addressed to you personally and are derogatory and vulgar and not in good
demeanor, then you can write to the abuse administrator of the poster's NG.
Usually, that is not the case, where the poster makes general remarks related
to your abilities to properly analyze an issue, which from what you describe,
is the case you face. Unfortunately, while most people would recognize those
remarks as condescending, they never-the-less hurt and unfortunately don't
usually meet sufficient criteria to sustain an abuse challenge. So,, under
those circumstances, you can kill file the offending poster, or simply ignore
her and not reply. After a time, she'll get the message. Replying and
attempting to mollify her is not recommended, as attention is what she
wants. That plays into her hands and does little for you, as you have
discovered.
Alan
Neil Woods
> Hi, hoping that some of you here might be able to help out. I've
> joined a lifestyle group in hopes of connecting with people in my
> area. However, there is one individual who continuously attacks me
> (and only me) in not-so-subtle ways. If I post some knowledge I have
> on a subject, she will immediately refute it and attempt, in a very
> condescending way, to make me look like an idiot. Or, if I post my
> subjective feelings about a subject, she will make a really harsh
> remark about how maybe I "deserve" to feel sad/disappointed/(other
> negative emotion). I've never insulted her, and I certainly don't
> bait her. I've tried pacifying her, and I've tried ignoring her
> entirely, but nothing I can post about is "right." But her postings
> seem to take on a life of their own and disrupt the group. I feel
> particularly bad about this, that my presence on a group would cause
> so many problems for everyone else.
>
> How should I handle this? I would like to be able to firmly stand up
> for my convictions, but I also don't want to feed the flames.
As well as advice already given, Timo Salmi has written a faq on this
type of abusive behavior, entitled "How should I react to abusive
postings or email?". See:
<http://www.uwasa.fi/~ts/http/abusive.html>
Thor Kottelin
> If I post some knowledge I have
> on a subject, she will immediately refute it and attempt, in a very
> condescending way, to make me look like an idiot. Or, if I post my
> subjective feelings about a subject, she will make a really harsh
> remark about how maybe I "deserve" to feel sad/disappointed/(other
> negative emotion). I've never insulted her, and I certainly don't
> bait her. I've tried pacifying her, and I've tried ignoring her
> entirely, but nothing I can post about is "right." But her postings
> seem to take on a life of their own and disrupt the group.
Ignore her (place her in your killfile), and encourage others to do the
same.
Thor
Michael Dahms
>
> Ignore her (place her in your killfile), and encourage others to do the
> same.
The encouragement should be done by mail in order to minimize
off-topic-(troll-)traffic in the group.
Michael Dahms
whitsunmorn
on how to killfile. I hate to resort to the drastic, but ... this is
starting to creep me out. I've never been singled out for "attack" in
a forum, and this is, as one of the articles described, definitely
abusive behavior on the other poster's part.
I'm still trying to wrap my mind around why someone would behave so
aggressively, but I suppose it takes all kinds. Feh.
Again, thanks so much -
LS
Rodger Whitlock
> Hi, hoping that some of you here might be able to help out. I've
> joined a lifestyle group in hopes of connecting with people in my
> area. However, there is one individual who continuously attacks me
> (and only me) in not-so-subtle ways...
> How should I handle this? I would like to be able to firmly stand up
> for my convictions, but I also don't want to feed the flames.
The usual rule is "ignore the trolls." This is a very good rule
if you wish to lead a happy, worry-free life.
One thing to keep in mind is that many "borderline troll
personalities", as you put it, are likely afflicted with some
kind of borderline or sub-clinical psychiatric or psychological
disorder. Not enough to prevent them from making their way
through life, but enough for them to act like they're slightly
demented in a newsgroup -- as, indeed, they are.
Such people can have a totally distorted sense of perspective and
it can be impossible to reason with them.
The best thing to do is ignore the troll altogether. That means
never responding to ---anything--- she has written, not even if
quoted in a reply by someone else. And if she sends you email
directly, delete it un-read.
Doing so would be facilitated by using a newsreader that has good
killfile capabilities. You could simply mark messages with her
email address in the headers or the body to be treated as
invisibile and non-existent, so far as you are concerned.
To steal a slogan from a famous novel, "ignorance is bliss."
Any reaction on your part will merely egg her on. So the only
thing to do is give no reaction whatsoever. This is easier if you
take care not to read what she writes.
And don't worry about your reputation. Sensible newsgroupies know
a troll when they see one; all she's doing is damaging her own
reputation, not yours.
If you feel that you *must* shut her up, print out some of her
responses to you, take them to your lawyer, and ask him if they
are actionable as libel or slander. If so, have him send her a
snail-mail letter demanding that she cease and desist or face a
civil suit. Do NOT threaten to go to law; just do it silently. Do
not have such a letter sent if you are not willing to proceed
with a lawsuit: empty threats of legal action are the small
change of internet invective and intimidation.
If you take this course of action, remember that lawyers tend to
give clients the answer they think they want, so you must
emphasize that you are seeking a candid opinion on the matter,
not one that strokes your ego. A good lawyer is very likely to
tell you to drop the issue as it's not worth pursuing.
At that point it's back to "ignore the trolls."
Sorry I don't have some magic formula, but these folks are like
natural forces: there's no dealing with them.
--
Rodger Whitlock
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
[change "atlantic" to "pacific" and
"invalid" to "net" to reply by email]
Alan Lichtenstein
Not necessarily so. Reasonable people, which IMHO, are most who post to NG's
have reasonable views. There are those, whose views, for whatever reason,
are extreme. These individuals, simply because of the extreme qualities and
patently unreasonableness of their views, may be characterized as 'trolls.'
But they are far from it. These individuals will generally respond to any
post, fiercely professing their views, using passionate language and
frequently engaging in flaming. Trolls, OTOH, generally don't do that. They
post to get a rise out of others, and a lot of others. Their language tends
to border on the condescending, sometimes ridiculous, and tends not to become
inflammatory. The goal of a troll is to keep you discussing with their
'trolling.' If they engage in personal character assasination, they defeat
their own goals. I will admit, that given the similarity in the extreme
positions of their views, trolls and other, passionate( albeit it likely
unsustainable ) holders of extreme views, it does indeed become difficult to
tell them apart.
But there is a difference, and you need to take a step back for a minute in
order to see that otherwise small difference between the two.
>
>
> But myself and many others have been accused of being trolls by those
> who did not like what we had to say, although it was coherent, on-topic,
> and non-abusive.
I think that your assertion above tends to sustain my conclusion.
>
>
> My first thought upon seeing your cute alias and the word "troll" in
> the Subject was that *you* were a troll.
>
> On most other newsgroups I wouldn't even have read your post.
>
> You *could* be a troll, and your entire story above a fabrication.
>
> We'll see. I am willing to feed a troll for a while to teach people
> how to defeat them.
The best way to defeat a troll is NOT to feed them. Without an audience,
they'll just fade into the night of Usenet and go away.
Alan
whitsunmorn
I have found that to be effective in "ending" strings of posts that
become contentious. What I've also found to be effective - and I
discovered this last night, after a fellow on-line friend suggested it
to me - was to be complimentary and gracious to her. One gracious
post, in which I complimented her viewpoint, ended the furious line of
questioning altogether.
I know that it wasn't very sincere of me. But I also think that by
following up with something egregiously tactless, it makes *her* look
like an a$$. Most people won't go there. It worked. Maybe it will
work from now on, knock on wood.
LS
> The usual rule is "ignore the trolls." This is a very good rule
> if you wish to lead a happy, worry-free life.
>
> One thing to keep in mind is that many "borderline troll
> personalities", as you put it, are likely afflicted with some
> kind of borderline or sub-clinical psychiatric or psychological
> disorder. Not enough to prevent them from making their way
> through life, but enough for them to act like they're slightly
> demented in a newsgroup -- as, indeed, they are.
>
> Such people can have a totally distorted sense of perspective and
> it can be impossible to reason with them.
>
> The best thing to do is ignore the troll altogether. That means
> never responding to ---anything--- she has written, not even if
> quoted in a reply by someone else. And if she sends you email
> directly, delete it un-read.