RFD: comp.databases.adabas

Dave Muirhead

unread,

Jan 31, 1996, 3:00:00 AM1/31/96

to

REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
unmoderated group comp.databases.adabas

Newsgroup line:
comp.databases.adabas ADABAS database discussion.

This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the creation of a
world-wide unmoderated Usenet newsgroup comp.databases.adabas. This
is not a Call for Votes (CFV); you cannot vote at this time.
Procedural details are below.

RATIONALE: comp.databases.adabas

The ADABAS C database system has been in use throughout the world
for over twenty years and is installed in thousands of locations. It
has traditionally been installed on mainframe systems but the
recently released ADABAS D is growing in popularity on UNIX and
NT-based platforms. There is a mailing list with significant and
growing readership (and traffic) which discusses ALL Software AG
products and services. This new newsgroup will, for the first time
on Usenet, provide ADABAS users a place to discuss a broad range
of topics related specifically to ADABAS.

CHARTER: comp.databases.adabas

comp.databases.adabas is an unmoderated newsgroup for the discussion
of the ADABAS C and ADABAS D databases. Topics for discussion include
technical questions about the installation and use of ADABAS,
performance and tuning hints, discussion of problems and workarounds,
suggestions for the future direction of ADABAS, and the access of
ADABAS data from various sources.

This newsgroup would not be sponsored or specifically monitored by
SOFTWARE AG (although SOFTWARE AG's participation will be encouraged),
therefore any serious bug reports, change enhancements, or topics
requiring SOFTWARE AG participation should be forwarded to
SOFTWARE AG directly.

END CHARTER.

PROCEDURE:

This is a request for discussion, NOT a call for votes. In this phase
of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroup
should raised and resolved. The discussion period will continue for a
minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this
proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups). All discussion should
be posted to news.groups.

At the end of the discussion period, a Call for Votes (CFV) will be
posted by a neutral vote taker.

This RFD attempts to fully comply with Usenet newsgroup creation
guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and
"Writing an RFD". Please refer to these documents if you have
questions about the process.

DISTRIBUTION:

This RFD will be cross posted to:

news.announce.newgroups, news.groups, comp.databases

and the following mailing list:

sa...@uafsysb.uark.edu
(A list for the discussion of all SOFTWARE AG products)
subscribe via: list...@uafsysb.uark.edu

PROPONENT: Dave Muirhead <sa...@sagus.com>

Richard H. Miller

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Jan 31, 1996, 3:00:00 AM1/31/96

to

Dave Muirhead (sa...@sagus.com) wrote:
: REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
: unmoderated group comp.databases.adabas

: Newsgroup line:
: comp.databases.adabas ADABAS database discussion.

: This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the creation of a
: world-wide unmoderated Usenet newsgroup comp.databases.adabas. This
: is not a Call for Votes (CFV); you cannot vote at this time.
: Procedural details are below.

: RATIONALE: comp.databases.adabas

: The ADABAS C database system has been in use throughout the world
: for over twenty years and is installed in thousands of locations. It
: has traditionally been installed on mainframe systems but the
: recently released ADABAS D is growing in popularity on UNIX and
: NT-based platforms. There is a mailing list with significant and
: growing readership (and traffic) which discusses ALL Software AG
: products and services. This new newsgroup will, for the first time
: on Usenet, provide ADABAS users a place to discuss a broad range
: of topics related specifically to ADABAS.

Great, how big is the mailing list and how active is it? This is important
information. Also, how much discussion occurs in comp.databases on the
subject.

David L. Merrifield

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Feb 1, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/1/96

to

In <4eo7f5$k...@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu>, ri...@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu (Richard H. Miller) writes:
>Dave Muirhead (sa...@sagus.com) wrote:
>: REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
>: unmoderated group comp.databases.adabas

> [snip]

>
>Great, how big is the mailing list and how active is it? This is important
>information. Also, how much discussion occurs in comp.databases on the
>subject.

The mailing (listserv discussion) list is SA...@UAFSYSB.UARK.EDU, hosted
at the University of Arkansas.

There are currently 1111 subscribers on the SAG-L list. In December there
were 318 messages posted to the list. In January there were 396.

I don't have specific stats available, but the subscribership for SAG-L
has grown significantly over the past year (close to doubling in size).

As mentioned above, SAG-L is devoted to discussions on all Software AG
products, not just ADABAS. There have been requests to split the list
into various product groups, but I feel that using Usenet newsgroups would
be the most appropriate forums for doing so. I support the creation of
the proposed comp.databases.adabas group and expect there to be follow-ons
for other groups (possibly comp.lang.natural).

-David L. Merrifield E-mail: dm0...@uafsysb.uark.edu
University of Arkansas dm0...@comp.uark.edu
SAG-L List Owner

David Muirhead

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Feb 5, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/5/96

to

Richard H. Miller (ri...@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu) wrote:

: Dave Muirhead (sa...@sagus.com) wrote:
: : REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
: : unmoderated group comp.databases.adabas

: : Newsgroup line:
: : comp.databases.adabas ADABAS database discussion.

: : This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the creation of a
: : world-wide unmoderated Usenet newsgroup comp.databases.adabas. This
: : is not a Call for Votes (CFV); you cannot vote at this time.
: : Procedural details are below.

: : RATIONALE: comp.databases.adabas

: : The ADABAS C database system has been in use throughout the world
: : for over twenty years and is installed in thousands of locations. It
: : has traditionally been installed on mainframe systems but the
: : recently released ADABAS D is growing in popularity on UNIX and
: : NT-based platforms. There is a mailing list with significant and
: : growing readership (and traffic) which discusses ALL Software AG
: : products and services. This new newsgroup will, for the first time
: : on Usenet, provide ADABAS users a place to discuss a broad range
: : of topics related specifically to ADABAS.

: Great, how big is the mailing list and how active is it? This is important

: information. Also, how much discussion occurs in comp.databases on the
: subject.

The mailing list has over nearly 1000 subscribers. The discussion on
comp.databases is minimal to date and we hope to establish a home for
ADABAS before traffic increases much more in comp.databases.

Thanks,
Dave

Dave Muirhead

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Feb 5, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/5/96

to

muir...@rainbow.rmii.com (David Muirhead) wrote:
>Richard H. Miller (ri...@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu) wrote:
>: Dave Muirhead (sa...@sagus.com) wrote:
>: : REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
>: : unmoderated group comp.databases.adabas

[...snip...]

>: : NT-based platforms. There is a mailing list with significant and
>: : growing readership (and traffic) which discusses ALL Software AG

>: : products and services. [...snip...]

>
>: Great, how big is the mailing list and how active is it? This is important
>: information. Also, how much discussion occurs in comp.databases on the
>: subject.
>
>The mailing list has over nearly 1000 subscribers. The discussion on
>comp.databases is minimal to date and we hope to establish a home for
>ADABAS before traffic increases much more in comp.databases.
>
>Thanks,
>Dave
>

OK - call me Mr. Fat Fingers - there are nearly 1000 subscribers and the list has
between 15 to 25 postings per day. Sorry about the bad typing before.

Thanks,
Dave

Roland Hautz

unread,

Feb 14, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/14/96

to

sa...@sagus.com (Dave Muirhead) wrote:

>Newsgroup line:
>comp.databases.adabas ADABAS database discussion.

Two weeks gone and not a single followup made it to my site. I would have
supported the new group sooner, but it's too late for me. Up to November I
worked with Natural/Adabas C on VAXes and PC-Natural for almost 5 years.

I found those tools up to their task and we had good contacts to support from
Software AG. During that time the most unfavorable impression I got of that
company was their complete invisibilty on the net.

In my opinion they hold several world records in internet ignorance, or more
general in online ingnorance (they aren't present in Compuserve either):

To get you the scales (I won't look up the exact figures now): Software AG sells
for around 4 billion USD a year and was for long years by far the biggest
software shop in germany. Some two years ago they lost the first place in
germany to rapidly growing SAP, but they are still among the top 10 software
shops in the world.

Compare that e.g to Sybase: after several aquisitions (Watcom, Powersoft,...)
they are only at around 1 billion USD/year but are _much_ more known than
Software AG.

Last time I looked I couldn't find any web-page concerned with Software AG, not
to hope they could maintain a web-server themselves.

for the entries into the guiness book of world records I'd propose:

- Only top hundred software company without a single newsgroup or
Compuserve forum dedicated to one of its products.

- Biggest company without any web-presence

(very fine title for a software company ;-)

- lowest ratio of net visibility to sales in the computer industry

(that's for sure; I'd guess it's still true for the whole industry above some
threshold sales figure)

I've no explanation why no Software AG's customers are showing up here. That
certainly is representing a serious problem for (or of?) Software AG's
marketing. But I cannot perceive anything that Software AG's marketing is doing
against it.

In summary I'd say: Software AG and it's customers are sleeping happily in their
exclusive mainframe bed, in their dreams no sign of something like an internet
appearing.

I wish them they don't wake up too late to survive.

>This RFD will be cross posted to:

> news.announce.newgroups, news.groups, comp.databases

>and the following mailing list:

> sa...@uafsysb.uark.edu
> (A list for the discussion of all SOFTWARE AG products)
> subscribe via: list...@uafsysb.uark.edu

I wasn't aware of any such mailing lists, since I never had anything of the
bit.* hierarchy on my newsfeeds.

Roland Hautz
... und in der letzten Signatur, die mich zum lachen brachte, stand:

-- Aberglaube bringt Unglueck. --

Bill Aten

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Feb 26, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/26/96

to

FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
unmoderated group comp.databases.adabas

Newsgroups line:
comp.databases.adabas ADABAS Database topics in general.

Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 18 Mar 1996.

This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. Questions about
the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.

Proponent: Dave Muirhead <sa...@sagus.com>
Votetaker: Bill Aten <bi...@netagw.com>

RATIONALE: comp.databases.adabas

The ADABAS C database system has been in use throughout the world for
over twenty years and is installed in thousands of locations. It has
traditionally been installed on mainframe systems but the recently

released ADABAS D is growing in popularity on UNIX and NT-based platforms.

There is a mailing list with significant and growing readership (and

traffic) which discusses all Software AG products and services. This new

newsgroup will, for the first time on Usenet, provide ADABAS users a place
to discuss a broad range of topics related specifically to ADABAS.

CHARTER: comp.databases.adabas

Comp.databases.adabas is an unmoderated newsgroup for the discussion

of the ADABAS C and ADABAS D databases. Topics for discussion include
technical questions about the installation and use of ADABAS, performance
and tuning hints, discussion of problems and workarounds, suggestions for
the future direction of ADABAS, and the access of ADABAS data from various
sources.

This newsgroup is not sponsored or specifically monitored by SOFTWARE AG
(although SOFTWARE AG's participation is be encouraged), therefore any

serious bug reports, change enhancements, or topics requiring SOFTWARE AG
participation should be forwarded to SOFTWARE AG directly.

END CHARTER.

HOW TO VOTE:

Extract the ballot from the CFV by deleting everything before and after
the "BEGINNING OF BALLOT" and "END OF BALLOT" lines. Don't worry about
the spacing of the columns or any quote characters (">") that your
reply inserts.

PLEASE, do not send the entire CFV back to me as this mail is archived.

Mark the ballot and then MAIL it to: <adaba...@netagw.com>
Just "replying" to this message should work, but check the "To:" line.

In order to properly record your vote, please provide your REAL NAME and
indicate your desired vote in the appropriate locations inside the ballot.

Examples of how to properly indicate your vote:

[ YES ] example.yes.vote
[ NO ] example.no.vote
[ ABSTAIN ] example.abstention
[ CANCEL ] example.cancellation

*** PLEASE ***
DO NOT alter, modify, or delete any other information in this ballot!
If you do, the voting software will probably reject your vote.

===== BEGINNING OF BALLOT: Delete everything BEFORE this line =====
-------------------------------------------------------------------
comp.databases.adabas Ballot
<CDA-0001> (Do not remove this marker!)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Please provide your real name, or your vote may be rejected. Place
ONLY your name (ie. do NOT include your e-mail address or any other
information; ONLY your name) on the same line as "Voter name:".
Voter name:
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Insert YES, NO, ABSTAIN, or CANCEL inside the brackets for each
newsgroup listed below (do not delete the newsgroup name):

Your Vote Newsgroup
--------- ---------
[ ] comp.databases.adabas
-------------------------------------------------------------------
===== END OF BALLOT: Delete everything AFTER this line ============

IMPORTANT VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES:

Standard Guidelines for voting apply. Only one vote per person, no
more than one vote per account. Votes must be mailed directly from
the voter to the votetaker. Anonymous, forwarded, or proxy votes
are not valid. Votes mailed by WWW/HTML/CGI forms are considered
to be anonymous votes.

Vote counting is automated. Failure to follow these directions may
mean that your vote does not get counted. If you do not receive an
acknowledgment of your vote within three days, contact the votetaker
about the problem. It's your responsibility to make sure your vote
is registered correctly. Duplicate votes are resolved in favor of
the most recent valid vote. Names, addresses, and votes of all voters
will be published in the final voting results post.

DO NOT redistribute this CFV in any manner whatsoever. The purpose of
a Usenet vote is to determine the genuine interest of persons who would
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defeats this purpose. Only the votetaker, the news.announce.newgroups
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are permitted to distribute copies of this CFV.

Distribution of pre-marked or otherwise modified copies of this CFV is
generally considered voting fraud and should be reported immediately to
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delete ALL votes submitted by the violator. When in doubt, ask the
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DISTRIBUTION:

The only official sources for copies of this CFV are the locations listed
below and the votetaker's e-mail CFV server which can be reached at
<adabas-cf...@netagw.com>.

This CFV has been cross-posted to:
news.announce.newgroups, news.groups, comp.databases

The 1st CFV will also appear on the following mailing list:

sag-l
List address: sa...@uafsysb.uark.edu
Request address: list...@uafsysb.uark.edu

Bill Aten

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Mar 7, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/7/96

to

LAST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
unmoderated group comp.databases.adabas

RATIONALE: comp.databases.adabas

CHARTER: comp.databases.adabas

END CHARTER.

HOW TO VOTE:

<CDA-0002> (Do not remove this marker!)

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Please provide your real name, or your vote may be rejected. Place
ONLY your name (ie. do NOT include your e-mail address or any other

information; ONLY your name) on the next line beside "Voter name:".

IMPORTANT VOTING PROCEDURE NOTES:

DISTRIBUTION:

comp.databases.adabas Bounce List
(No need to revote)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No bounced votes at this time

Bill Aten

unread,

Mar 18, 1996, 3:00:00 AM3/18/96

to

RESULT
unmoderated group comp.databases.adabas passes 503:24

Voting closed at 23:59:59 UTC, 18 Mar 1996.

This vote was conducted by a neutral third party. Questions about the

proposed group should be directed to the proponent.

Proponent: Dave Muirhead <sa...@sagus.com>
Votetaker: Bill Aten <bi...@netagw.com>

There were 527 valid votes submitted during the voting period. Each proposed
newsgroup, in order to pass, must have at least 2/3 YES votes and at least
100 more YES than NO votes. The results are as follows:

comp.databases.adabas results - 527 valid votes

Yes No : 2/3? >100? : Pass? : Group
---- ---- : ---- ----- : ----- : -------------------------------------------
503 24 : Yes Yes : Yes : comp.databases.adabas
2 abstaining votes and 13 invalid votes

The proposal passed.

There is a five day discussion period after these results are posted. If no
serious and significant allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the
moderator of news.announce.newgroups will create the newsgroup shortly
thereafter.

The remainder of the RESULT contains:
Newsgroups Line
Rationale
Charter
Final Voting Acknowledgements

NEWSGROUPS LINE:

comp.databases.adabas ADABAS Database topics in general.

RATIONALE: comp.databases.adabas

The ADABAS C database system has been in use throughout the world for
over twenty years and is installed in thousands of locations. It has
traditionally been installed on mainframe systems but the recently
released ADABAS D is growing in popularity on UNIX and NT-based platforms.
There is a mailing list with significant and growing readership (and
traffic) which discusses all Software AG products and services. This new
newsgroup will, for the first time on Usenet, provide ADABAS users a place
to discuss a broad range of topics related specifically to ADABAS.

CHARTER: comp.databases.adabas

Comp.databases.adabas is an unmoderated newsgroup for the discussion
of the ADABAS C and ADABAS D databases. Topics for discussion include
technical questions about the installation and use of ADABAS, performance
and tuning hints, discussion of problems and workarounds, suggestions for
the future direction of ADABAS, and the access of ADABAS data from various
sources.

This newsgroup is not sponsored or specifically monitored by SOFTWARE AG
(although SOFTWARE AG's participation is be encouraged), therefore any
serious bug reports, change enhancements, or topics requiring SOFTWARE AG
participation should be forwarded to SOFTWARE AG directly.

END CHARTER.

FINAL VOTING ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS:

comp.databases.adabas Final Vote Ack

Votes in error
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
bart...@ix.netcom.com Richard Bartkus
! No ballot
b...@pcbht.software-ag.de Owner of that great box
! No ballot
BS...@software-ag.de
! No ballot
C...@software-ag.de
! No ballot
djo...@tpgi.com.au
! No name given
k...@software-ag.de Klaus Jostmeier
! No ballot
man...@sag.co.jp
! No name given
SAG...@software-ag.de
! No ballot
taka...@pnnec01.sag.co.jp
! No name given
to...@sag.co.jp Tomoyuki Satoh
! No vote statement in message
t...@TREEHOUSE.COM Treehouse Software
! Invalid address
UK...@software-ag.de STUART COLLINS
! No vote statement in message
vill...@inist.inist.fr Michel VILLAUME
! No ballot