Announcing ClariNet -- Professional Electronic Publishing to the multiuser computer network community.
Read a professional "Electronic Newspaper" and electronic magazines and columns with your USENET newsreader -- real netnews, not netnoise.
ClariNet provides electronic publications in the Usenet file format. ClariNet is *NOT* Usenet, but a parallel network that uses the same file format. You'll get newsgroups with real, professional information in them, at a low fee.
ClariNet will provide scores of professionally produced newsgroups for about the same price as the analogous paper publications, but without conventional advertising. Instead of dialing up to an online service like CompuServe to read online news, you can get it delivered right to your machine, to read and search at your own convenience, with no meter running.
Initial products include a live newswire (including technology groups) and various sources of computer industry, telecommunications and online industry news. Each product is described in detail in its own posting.
ClariNews -- gathered live from UPI, Reuters and other international news and business newswires. Fully keyworded by professional editors and distributed in 40 newsgroups. Included are groups for technology and computers, plus the usual news, weather, sports, business news and features. (500K/day)
With a live feed, get your news on your own computer well before your local newspaper.
(The same NEWSGRID that's on CompuServe & Genie.)
TechWire -- technical subset of ClariNews. Computers, electronics, biotechnology, nuclear energy, aerospace, telecom etc.
NewsBytes -- A weekly computer industry newsmagazine. From 8 USA and international bureaus, news on the IBM, Apple, Unix, Telecom, Business and Government arenas, plus reviews and coverage of trends. (The same NewsBytes that's on the Source & GEnie.)
Networker's Journal -- A digest of news about networks other than USENET, including what's new on CompuServe, Genie etc.
ClariNet Information -- free group for any site (even non-subscribers) containing ClariNet announcements and information. This group will also exist in the 'biz' distribution.
Experimental Products: The following products are being presented on a trial basis.
Fight Back with David Horowitz -- a consumer information column, 3 times a week.
Hollywood Hotline -- daily brief news about the entertainment industry, movie reviews 3 times per week, daily soap opera summaries and entertainment trivia quizzes. (We're deleting the Horoscopes that come with this service unless people really want them.)
Infomat -- An alternate computer industry weekly that specializes in coverage of the BBS world and shareware.
Please read the full descriptions of these groups in upcoming postings.
Subscribers to ClariNews and Newsbytes get a no-charge licence to use the NewsClip programming language (described elsewhere) to filter their news. This is particularly useful with the heavily keyworded ClariNews items. It might also seriously change your USENET reading. NewsClip lets you easily code USENET into exactly the network you want it to be. Some feel that NewsClip alone is worth more than the price of a ClariNews subscription.
How it works:
ClariNet picks up electronic publications from various sources and turns them into USENET form. We then feed them immediately to UUNET and other sites. ClariNet has created a new hierarchy of newsgroups that start with "clari." For example, the group with all newswire stories on the computer industry is "clari.news.computers".
You pay to get a group, based on the number of readers on your machine. Each product has a base price for one or two readers. (The 2nd reader is always free.) The more readers you have, the less you pay for each new reader. You can count readers using something like "arbitron" or just take a standard percentage of your user community. Rates vary based on the type of site. With enough readers, you can end up paying less than 1/4th the regular subscription price per reader.
readers 3-6 - 60% of base price readers 7-20 - 35% of base price readers 21 & up - 20 % of base price
If you make special arrangements with ClariNet, you can feed other sites, as you may do on USENET. In fact, we'll pay *you* to feed them by reducing your subscription fee for each site you feed. Feed enough similarly-sized sites and you get ClariNet publications for free. We're looking for feed sites in each major dialing area.
Clarinet subscriber sites must follow ClariNet network rules or they may be subject to cutoff or more if they break the rules. (This only governs behaviour within ClariNet. The same sites can also exist within USENET and do as they please there.)
Future Products: We're working on more products. Some of these include:
- A Unix industry news service. - A Science News service. - An online science fiction news magazine. - Syndicated columnists and features. - Academic Journals - ClariNet generated publications - Member written publications -- tell us about yours.
We're also open to suggestion from you. What publications would you like to see? Tell us.
How to Subscribe:
Mail us at order%clarinet....@uunet.uu.net (for orders) or info%clarinet....@uunet.uu.net (for info). You can pay with Visa, Mastercard or Amex, or we can invoice you. You can phone 1-800-265-2782 to talk in person or to send confidential information like credit card numbers.
Subscriptions are to be prepaid. (EFT payment is in the works.) [ Outside the USA call 1-519-884-7473 ] FAX: 519-886-9495
[ The clarinet.com domain is still being registered. For now, only uunet knows about it. Use the above form for the time being, or mail to i...@looking.on.ca ]
Or Write: ClariNet Commmunications Corp. 124 King St. N. Waterloo, ON N2J 2X8
Subscriptions are billed monthly, quarterly, semi-annually or annually depending on the fee.
Or talk to me (Brad Templeton) at the Baltimore Unix conference. I'll be at the USENET related BOFs and in the Holiday Inn.
Satisfaction Guaranteed -- Free Trial:
Sign up for a feed of any ClariNet product. If you're not satisfied after a trial period (14 days of ClariNews, 2 weeks of NewsBytes & other weekly pubs, 1 month of any monthly) send back the invoice and you will be charged nothing. "Keep those first issues as our gift." :-)
We'll also provide you with free sample back-issues at any time.
Special Introductory Offer: Sign up in the first 2 weeks after this announcement (June 8-June 21) and receive your first 2 weeks free. Some products are ready to feed immediately, some are still in beta. Billing or the free period won't start until a product is out the electronic door.
How to get a feed:
You can pick up all clari.groups by calling UUNET, the non-profit USENET communications hub. If you are already a UUNET customer we can instruct them to start feeding you right away. You can also call ClariNet machines, or ClariNet customer sites that are willing to feed. All ClariNet links must be approved by ClariNet.
If you want to become a UUNET customer you can be signed up quickly. UUNET provides communications at fairly low rates, and offers Email and Usenet news feeds. They do have a $35/month account fee, however. ClariNet is not associated with UUNET, we simply buy their communications services.
(Yes, you can get a live feed over the internet! See below if you thought that contradicts internet "policy.")
If there is no feed point suitable for you, we'll keep you on file and inform you if one shows up.
If you're an individual, and you can't convince your site admins to carry a ClariNet publication, it is possible that a mail feed can be arranged. We can't feed all of ClariNews by mail -- it's too big. Be sure you have the permission of the sites that will forward the mail before requesting any high-volume publication.
If you can't arrange subscription by your computer center, your Library may have a standard system for subscriptions.
What does it cost?
The ClariNews base price is $10/month -- 33 cents/day -- less than many daily advertising-filled newspapers. Subsets of the wire can be had for less. NewsBytes is $49.95 per year -- less than other computer industry news magazines. For other prices consult the product fact sheet. Remember, the prices go down the more readers you have. Readership is counted with an arbitron-like program, or can be done on a 'site' basis, based on a preset percentage of your newsreader community. (ie. You tell us how many total users or readers on your site, and we might bill assuming 10% of the readers read a given product -- the percentage varies by product & machine type.)
What if I want to subscribe but my site doesn't? We can arrange a feed of any low volume product by mail. If your site is willing to create the clari groups and put them in a private Unix 'group' for security, you can subscribe in small numbers on a big site. We can bill individual customers on a big site, but to get discounts, all discounted readers must be on the same bill.
Do I really need more stuff to read?
No. But we do think you can use your time better when you read professionally written information -- information worth paying for. With NewsClip and the heavily keyworded ClariNews you can arrange so that each article you see is important to you and worth reading. Compare that to the time you spend on USENET -- it might actually save you time.
Will you post more?
We believe that USENET should be used for commercial purposes, but not abused. That's part of the reason why we're creating ClariNet as a distinct network. Commercial traffic on USENET is A-OK if it is desired by the recipients. So we'll post more if it's clear to us that a lot of folks
I am finding it very difficult to find the words adequate to describe the emotions I experianced while reading this article as well as the other three that were posted by the infamous B.T. of Waterloo.
Despite his previous pleas and arguements to the contrary, this gentleman has, is and will continue to use the network for his own personal gain until such time as his access to the net is servered permanently.
B.T.'s previous modus operandi has alway been to shout the longest and loudest until he gets his way. I doubt that he will change his tactics this time around.
B.T. wants to change things, give away software etc, developed at his expense no less, in order to make our lives better and easier. BS!
B.T. is out to make a buck, ladies and gentleman, and that is about the sum of it. In every instance, he has shown this to be the case.
I strongly encourage each and every reader to refrain from subscribing to this "service". Additionally, I strongly suggest that the management of UUNET refrain from involving themselves in this scheme, as I for one will immediately withdraw any current and/or future support the moment that they become involved in the distribution this service.
Finally, I call on the gentleman in question to resign immediately from his post as moderator, as he has, is and will continue to utilize the group for his own personal gain. If their is any doubt in your mind concerning this gentlemans commercialization of a newsgroup one only has to read the postings he makes urging readers to buy his book, complete with an 1-800 telephone number.
B.T. Go Away! (Permanently, please).
Noel
-- Noel B. Del More | decvax!ubbs-nh!noel 17 Meredith Drive | n...@ubbs-nh.mv.com Nashua, New Hampshire 03063 | It's unix me son! `taint spozed tah make cents
In the referenced article, there's various ranting and raving about Brad's new ClariNet scheme, including
>B.T. Go Away! (Permanently, please).
Do people stay awake at night thinking of ways to get mad at brad? He's one of the few people on Usenet who's actually thinking about the net, and trying to do something about it. If you don't like the service he's offering, don't subscribe to it, but there's no need to bad-mouth him at every opportunity.
I for one am glad that someone like Brad is taking the time to work out some actual alternatives to what we have now, I know he may rub a lot of people the wrong way but at least he's trying to do *something* instead of sitting back and complaining any time anyone suggests something different, which is all we ever hear from a lot of the net community.
I wish Brad well with ClariNet.
..Steve
Steve Hayman Workstation Manager Computer Science Department Indiana U. sahay...@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu (812) 855-6984
In article <3...@ubbs-nh.MV.COM> n...@ubbs-nh.MV.COM writes:
>B.T. is out to make a buck, ladies and gentleman, and that is about the >sum of it. In every instance, he has shown this to be the case.
So? I was under the impression that n the USA that's considered a Good Thing - or had it gone socialist lately just to frustrate Gorby?
-- Amos Shapir a...@nsc.com National Semiconductor (Israel) P.O.B. 3007, Herzlia 46104, Israel Tel. +972 52 522261 TWX: 33691, fax: +972-52-558322 34 48 E / 32 10 N (My other cpu is a NS32532)
In article <21...@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu> sahay...@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu (Steve Hayman) writes: >In the referenced article, there's various ranting and raving >about Brad's new ClariNet scheme, including >>B.T. Go Away! (Permanently, please).
>Do people stay awake at night thinking of ways to get mad at brad? >He's one of the few people on Usenet who's actually >thinking about the net, and trying to do something about it. >If you don't like the service he's offering, don't >subscribe to it, but there's no need to bad-mouth him >at every opportunity.
I Think the problems here is the cross posting to news.* newsgroups. If he left it in comp.newprod I do not see any problem with his self publicity. It is my understanding comp.newprod is for new products, which this is, but I do think it is in bad taste to cross post it here. (NOTE: I have not "bad mouthed" him in the past).
Brad, next time post it to comp.newprod and if you want to build an audience, put a little blurb in the news.* groups to check comp.newprod for more information. I think this is a *little* more appropriate and would be a *little* more acceptable to net.reader (as well as us regular readers of the news.* groups). -- scott barman {gatech, emory}!dtscp1!scott
In article <3...@ubbs-nh.MV.COM> n...@ubbs-nh.MV.COM (Noel B. Del More Nashua) writes:
>B.T. is out to make a buck, ladies and gentleman, and that is about the >sum of it. In every instance, he has shown this to be the case.
Gee, lets see. BT is providing a feed of commercial news information using net technology. He has to pay for that information, so he charges for it. In order to make the information more valuable, he provides, for free, some software that lets you filter it out in a much more sophisticated and subtle manner than, say, ``rn'', and, as a subscriber, you get to use that software on the rest of your newsfeed.
BT's company mainly feeds through UUNET. UUNET gets $ when the company sends on the mail, and when a subscriber downloads it. Nobody else on the net is inconvenienced in any way. All BT is doing is using the technology of the net (as opposed to the net as a whole) in an unique and clever manner in order to provide a service that otherwise would not exist. Hell, many people may subscribe just to get the filter, and BT may, after a while, consider selling that seperately.
In fact, one might make the argument that BT's company, by supporting UUNET in the way it does, helps to pay some of the costs of UUNET, and thus helps support USENET somewhat.
BT is an ENTREPRANEUR. He has expended effort to provide an interesting service in the hopes that people will subscribe and thus reward his vision. If you are not interested, fine, don't subscribe; you are not inconvenienced in any way. No part of this service impacts you, or your site, in any manner unless someone at your site subscribes.
Basically, your attitude is analagous to, say, a cable subscriber bitching about the nasty extra info placed in the vertical blank portion of his TV signal for the benefit of X*PRESS subscribers.
I, for one, might be interested in trying out the service for a month to see if it is of value to me. I've yet to make that decision. But I'll be damned if I'll let net.puritans like you make it for me. If BT was taking net traffic and reselling it for his benefit (as was nebulously the case with the rhf compilations) that's one thing. But this is a totally different situation.
Let BT and his grand scheme live or die on it's merits. If nobody subscribes, he'll lose his shirt and you'll be able to snicker at him.-- Robert J Woodhead, Biar Games, Inc. !uunet!biar!trebor | tre...@biar.UUCP ``The worst thing about being a vampire is that you can't go to matinees and save money anymore.''
In article <3...@ubbs-nh.MV.COM> n...@ubbs-nh.MV.COM (Noel B. Del More Nashua) writes:
>B.T. is out to make a buck, ladies and gentleman, and that is about the >sum of it. In every instance, he has shown this to be the case.
This is what fuels our American economy. Without the instinct and drive to make money, we wouldn't have the funds to invent these wonderful things we call computers.
So, I ask, is this wrong?
... Erik -- Erik Murrey /| // /~~~~/ | / MPX Data Systems, Inc. / | / / /____/ |/ e...@mpx.com / / / / /| Data Systems, Inc. {vu-vlsi, bpa, cbmvax}!mpx1!erik / / / / |====================
My original message, which was basically posted in a state of mild shock after reading Brad's ClariNet announcement, has been flamed (in mail... thanks guys) by Jef Poskanzer and (of course) Brad himself. It was a little harsh and lacking in details, but I'm not about to apologise for it. I consider ClariNet to be a basically good idea, but with an abominable implementation.
My first objection, which Jef dismisses as ludicrous, is that it will siphon resources away from Usenet... which is a pretty shabby way to treat the net. I'll not spend any time on it.
Secondly, Brad has pointed out that I recommended he implement his own hierarchy. I plead guilty to that, but I was thinking in terms of the existing parallel hierarchies such as '3b2', 'unixpc', and 'bionet'. Hierarchies controlled by the co-operation of the systems carrying them... not by a central authority. This is a significant difference... I'll get back to this later.
In article <3...@looking.on.ca>, b...@looking.on.ca (Brad Templeton) writes: > Read a professional "Electronic Newspaper" and electronic magazines and > columns with your USENET newsreader -- real netnews, not netnoise.
Starting off with a mild slam at UseNet is a real good way to win friends and influence people, by the way.
> You pay to get a group, based on the number of readers on > your machine. Each product has a base price for one or two readers.
This is completely unenforcable. Either you will have to play net.policeman, expect your suppliers to, or abandon it. Do you intend to copy-protect your product?
> If you make special arrangements with ClariNet, you can feed other > sites, as you may do on USENET.
And here's another implied policy... you can't feed ClariNet to another site unless you make arrangements with Brad. He goes on to say that he'll cut your subscription fee for each site you feed. Unless he cuts it in half it'd pay you to just pass your feed on to another site and split the costs. How are you going to enforce this?
> Clarinet subscriber sites must follow ClariNet network rules or > they may be subject to cutoff or more if they break the rules.
This says Brad's willing to play net.police.
> Is this the end of USENET?
No, but the litigation that's likely to follow is sure not going to do Usenet any good.
Basically, I don't believe that any sort of central administration is possible given the nature of the medium. Any attempt to enforce such an administration is going to eventually cause grief.
Tell me, Brad... are you going to cross-feed the IN MODERATION people? -- Peter da Silva, Xenix Support, Ferranti International Controls Corporation.
In article <3...@ubbs-nh.MV.COM>, n...@ubbs-nh.MV.COM (Noel B. Del More Nashua) writes:
> Despite his previous pleas and arguements to the contrary, this gentleman > has, is and will continue to use the network for his own personal gain > until such time as his access to the net is servered permanently.
And there's NOTHING wrong with using the network for your personal gain. Telebit, AT&T, and so on do it all the time without being flamed.
See my previous posting for more details. -- Peter da Silva, Xenix Support, Ferranti International Controls Corporation.
In article <4...@ficc.uu.net> pe...@ficc.uu.net (Peter da Silva) writes:
>I don't believe it.
>It's got to be a joke. Even Brad wouldn't pull this sort of shit after the >Genie affair.
>It doesn't *look* like a joke. It *looks* real.
>Well, everyone who thought I was a dope for supporting Brad last time... you >can say "I told you so".
Why would anyone want to pay for this anyway -- also since when does a news wire license the redistribution of their services via USENET. I would be very surprized if they allowed the sale of their products. -- Gregory G. Petersen, Esq. g...@lawnet.LawNet.Com Petersen & Trott, A Law Corporation (714) 971-1441 770 The City Drive South, Suite 2100 Orange, California 92668
ClariNet is a BUSINESS VENTURE. Its ONLY similarity to USENET is that it uses the SAME SOFTWARE. Do we UNDERSTAND yet?
Peter da Silva goes on for a bit about how unenforcable Brad's policies are and how Brad is setting himself up to play net.policeman.
If anything, Brad's setting himself up to play clarinet.policeman. Which is fine. Because ClariNet is a BUSINESS VENTURE. Subscribers to ClariNet will probably have to sign CONTRACTS. If the contract is WORDED well, it will be ILLEGAL for subscribers to pass their FEED on to OTHERS. I have no reason to BELIEVE that the contract will not be WORDED well. Do we UNDERSTAND yet?
Put simply, a ClariNet subscriber that passes his ClariNet feed on is breaking the law. Perhaps, Mr da Silva, your jaundiced world view won't permit you to believe that there are people that would choose to abide by the law, and the ClariNet contract, but we do exist.
In article <4...@ficc.uu.net> pe...@ficc.uu.net (Peter da Silva) writes:
>And there's NOTHING wrong with using the network for your personal gain. >Telebit, AT&T, and so on do it all the time without being flamed.
I find nothing wrong with making an announcement concerning a new commercial product in the appropriate group(s). What I do find distasteful is continuous postings of a commercial nature promoting one product, ie. "buy my book", or in another case, "buy my BBS software" (not B.T.).
Yes, I agree, most of us do use the net for "personal gain", but not in a direct manner, and that IS the difference.
If the consensus of the net is that it is OK to use the net for commercial purposes, then fine, just let me know. I'd personally love to take advantage of the "free advertising".
You will note however, that I have never done so, because my understanding of the "rules" dictates that it is improper to do so. -- Noel B. Del More | decvax!ubbs-nh!noel 17 Meredith Drive | n...@ubbs-nh.mv.com Nashua, New Hampshire 03063 | It's unix me son! `taint spozed tah make cents
In article <WISNER.89Jun11121...@anableps.berkeley.edu>, wis...@mica.Berkeley.EDU (Bill Wisner) writes a bunch of stuff with lots of capital letters:
> Put simply, a ClariNet subscriber that passes his ClariNet feed on is breaking > the law. Perhaps, Mr da Silva, your jaundiced world view won't permit you > to believe that there are people that would choose to abide by the law, and > the ClariNet contract, but we do exist.
Oh, I believe that such people exist. I'm one of them.
But there are, on the other hand, people who are willing to break the law. In fact, there are a lot of them. In the past I've even worked for them. If you don't think this is significant, I think I can leave out a lot of discussion and just give you two words: "Software Piracy". The analogy should be obvious. -- Peter da Silva, Xenix Support, Ferranti International Controls Corporation.
In article <3...@tank.uchicago.edu> m...@oddjob.uchicago.edu (Matt Crawford) writes: > This must be where all the mythical "jokes from GEnie" will go.
i dont know about you, but i have at least one joke from compuserve sitting on my system right now. are you sure there has _never_ been a joke from genie? have you checked? or would that just rune your good bitching section?
In article <3...@ubbs-nh.MV.COM>, n...@ubbs-nh.MV.COM (Noel B. Del More Nashua) writes:
> Despite his previous pleas and arguements to the contrary, this gentleman > has, is and will continue to use the network for his own personal gain > until such time as his access to the net is servered permanently.
Brad is establishing a commercial service. It uses the same technology as USENET but it is NOT USENET. I repeat, it is a commercial service just like Genie or CompuServe, he has announced it according to protocol in comp.newprod. He will not be using non-subscribers systems and resources to transmit his service nor does he plan to redistribute material originating on USENET. I wish some of the Brad bashers would think a little before they post. ClariNET is a great opportunity for them, from now on every time Brad tries to do something they object to he can now be told, "you have you own network now, use it". With the amount of time that will ahve to be spent running the thing I doubt he'll have much time to irritate you anyway.
Frankly with all the pitfalls inherent in using something as open and insecure as the netnews software as the foundation for a commerical service, I think Brad has just opened himself a very large can of worms. However I recoginize that it's Brad's own personal can of worms, and neither I or anyone else on USENET has any business trying to stop him from getting into it. Only if he tries to steal either resources or material from USENET will it become a concern of ours. I may subsribe to CLARINET for while just to see how it turn's out, it's cheap and for me Waterloo is a local call. I wish Brad luck in this new commerical venture, I think he's going to need it. -- Norman Soley - The Communications Guy - Ontario Ministry of the Environment so...@moegate.UUCP or if you roll your own: uunet!attcan!ncrcan!moegate!soley The Minister speaks for the Ministry, I speak for myself. Got that! Good. Stay smart, go cool, be happy, it's the only way to get what you want
In article <3...@ubbs-nh.MV.COM>, n...@ubbs-nh.MV.COM (Noel B. Del More Nashua) writes:
> In article <4...@ficc.uu.net> pe...@ficc.uu.net (Peter da Silva) writes: > >And there's NOTHING wrong with using the network for your personal gain. > >Telebit, AT&T, and so on do it all the time without being flamed. > I find nothing wrong with making an announcement concerning a new > commercial product in the appropriate group(s)...
I interpreted your message as being about ClariNet, not about the advertising thereof. Yes, advertising outside of comp.newprod is wrong, since it violates the legal niceties for ham radio links, as well as for some of the internet carriers. But that's a seperate issue. -- Peter da Silva, Xenix Support, Ferranti International Controls Corporation.
Would it be legit for me to read clarinet-news via nntp from a machine far far away on the internet? Then all you need is one internet site (with a few extra cycles...) and an unrestricted agreement and you're all set.
Watch for a forthcoming annoucement of tuba-net news, every month you get a package in the mail of pre-digested 100% grade a number one netnews all squashed together into a handy container. Just squeeze and enjoy.
In article <WISNER.89Jun11121...@anableps.berkeley.edu> wis...@mica.Berkeley.EDU (Bill Wisner) writes: >ClariNet is a BUSINESS VENTURE. Its ONLY similarity to USENET is that it >uses the SAME SOFTWARE. Do we UNDERSTAND yet?
No -- WE don't understand yet. If this BUSINESS VENTURE going to use the usenet paths for mail and to otherwise respond to the PURIFIED news that the BUSINESS VENTURE is going to generate then KEEP IT THE HELL OF MY SYSTEMS since I don't particularly want to pay for either the front end or the rear end of the BUSINESS VENTURE.
>Peter da Silva goes on for a bit about how unenforcable Brad's policies are >and how Brad is setting himself up to play net.policeman. >If anything, Brad's setting himself up to play clarinet.policeman.
Great -- will he read the mail and make sure none of it goes via USENET?
Which is fine. Because ClariNet is a BUSINESS VENTURE. Subscribers to ClariNet
>will probably have to sign CONTRACTS.
That should be an interesting contract to read - internationally binding and sufficent to be lawful in all jurisdictions that USENET touches. Contracts are nice but as any lawyer will tell you they are only as good as the parties thereto will allow. If the contract is WORDED well, itwill be ILLEGAL for subscribers to pass their FEED on to OTHERS. I have
>no reason to BELIEVE that the contract will not be WORDED well. Do we >UNDERSTAND yet?
That is an interesting "IF"! There is a legally enforcable custom, practice and usage on USENET that disallows BUSINESS VENTURE usage of USENET. How a contract will be draftedwith this in mind is also interesting since any contract written will be required to offer VALID access and responses without using USENET AT ALL!>
>Put simply, a ClariNet subscriber that passes his ClariNet feed on is breaking >the law. Perhaps, Mr da Silva, your jaundiced world view won't permit you >to believe that there are people that would choose to abide by the law, and >the ClariNet contract, but we do exist.
Yes, we do exist. The law however, regardless of who exists, does not allow others to benefit from the deeds of a third party without giving that third party compensation for the expenses incurred, i.e., USENET may seek compensation for the use that the BUSINESS VENTURE is obtaining. To take my telephone time and expense for the BUSINESS VENTURE is unconscionable in my opinion. While I may handle mail and even news for others I certainly do not do so in order to support another BUSINESS VENTURE.
If that BUSINESS VENTURE wants to use public domain software that is fine but keep its use out of the USENET paths, including the reply mail and postings.
-- Gregory G. Petersen, Esq. g...@lawnet.LawNet.Com Petersen & Trott, A Law Corporation (714) 971-1441 770 The City Drive South, Suite 2100 Orange, California 92668
In article <3...@ubbs-nh.MV.COM> n...@ubbs-nh.MV.COM (Noel B. Del More Nashua) writes: : I am finding it very difficult to find the words adequate to describe the : emotions I experianced while reading this article as well as the other : three that were posted by the infamous B.T. of Waterloo.
Well, it is too bad that you were ruled by your emotions. Had you used your _reason_ instead, you would have realized that Brad's latest venture is only distantly related to Usenet.
In fact, there are exactly two relationships:
1) Brad announced his product on Usenet. 2) Brad's product will make use of software that is also used for Usenet.
Neither of those are at all unusual.
: Despite his previous pleas and arguements to the contrary, this gentleman : has, is and will continue to use the network for his own personal gain
You mean you don't? Then WHY IN HELL DO YOU READ IT?
: B.T.'s previous modus operandi has alway been to shout the longest and : loudest until he gets his way. I doubt that he will change his tactics : this time around.
In response to people like you, the only possible response is to shout louder.
: B.T. is out to make a buck, ladies and gentleman, and that is about the : sum of it. In every instance, he has shown this to be the case.
If you hate money so much, why don't you sign over your bank account and your paychecks? I'm quite sure that I could make better use of them than you can. No? Well, SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU HYPOCRITE!
: I strongly encourage each and every reader to refrain from subscribing to : this "service". Additionally, I strongly suggest that the management of : UUNET refrain from involving themselves in this scheme, as I for one will : immediately withdraw any current and/or future support the moment that : they become involved in the distribution this service.
Fortunately, the rest of us won't be listening to assholes like you.
People may think it very odd of me to say this, but the Clarinet schtick is the first Brad-plot to which I see no valid objection. At least not on the surface. Brad, being Brad, may very well be going to steal material from Usenet again, but this time he doesn't say so up front.
Well, OK here's an objection -- this new project is going to take away a lot of attention from his ongoing atrocities relating to r.h.f. ________________________________________________________ Matt Crawford m...@oddjob.uchicago.edu
In article <3...@lawnet.LawNet.Com> Gregory Petersen does an exceptionally good job of being exceptionally obtuse:
>If this BUSINESS VENTURE going to use the usenet >paths for mail and to otherwise respond to the PURIFIED news that the BUSINESS >VENTURE is going to generate then KEEP IT THE HELL OF MY SYSTEMS since I don't >particularly want to pay for either the front end or the rear end of the >BUSINESS VENTURE.
ClariNet is a vehicle for the distribution of various news services. It is not USENET. It is not "UUCPnet". It will not be moving around mail, or USENET articles. It moves around news. That's all. It will use USENET software, and some of its customers are sure to be existing USENET sites. But it is seperate. Got it?
ClariNet will not be a two-way network; it will consist entirely of news feeds originating at ClariNet headquarters, wherever that may be.
>That should be an interesting contract to read - internationally binding >and sufficent to be lawful in all jurisdictions that USENET touches.
Brad pointed out to me that he won't really need a contract to make redistribution of a ClariNet feed illegal, as the newswires carried by ClariNet are already copyrighted by their originators (UPI, etc). Copyrights are internationally binding, no?
>That is an interesting "IF"! There is a legally enforcable custom, practice >and usage on USENET that disallows BUSINESS VENTURE usage of USENET.
Brad's use of USENET consists of advertising and that's about all. He posted his plug to comp.newprod, which I'm sure everyone agrees is an appropriate place, and to news.admin because he thought his venture would be of interest to USENET administrators. The response leads me to judge that USENET administrators are, indeed, interested.
Are you a lawyer, Mr Petersen? If so that could explain much.
>To take >my telephone time and expense for the BUSINESS VENTURE is unconscionable in >my opinion. While I may handle mail and even news for others I certainly do >not do so in order to support another BUSINESS VENTURE.
Wake up! Take a strong stimulant and re-read Brad's announcement very, very carefully. Your telephone time and expense will never be used to move ClariNet traffic around. You, in fact, WILL NEVER SEE CLARINET, unless you pay for it. Or break the law. The only machines that receive -- and transmit -- ClariNet will be ClariNet's customers.
>If that BUSINESS VENTURE wants to use public domain software that is fine >but keep its use out of the USENET paths, including the reply mail and >postings.
What reply mail? Letters to the editor? Did you even BOTHER to read the ClariNet announcement, or are you flaming for the hell of it?
I am certain that this has occurred to some, but obviously not to those that bitch but:
This sort of 'one-shot' advertising, specifically the advertisment of a USENet-type news service, helps not only 'big-bad-Brad' but us too!! I for one would love it if my institution subscribed. I'd be far better off than now, and I don't care if someone makes money off it--somebody has to! If not Ma Bell in her many guises then one of us...
Forget it! Templeton used the nets for a very specific advertisement aimed only at those that would be best informed of it.
nrg -- York University Department of Philosophy Toronto, Ontario, Canada "It's only by thinking even more crazily than philosophers do that you can solve their problems." -- L. Wittgenstein ___________________________________________________________________________ __
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