Gmail Calendar Documents Reader Web more »
Recently Visited Groups | Help | Sign in
Google Groups Home
Message from discussion SPAMIS: Strategic Partnership Against Microsoft Illegal Spam [Comcast Zombie 69.244.26.150]

View parsed - Show only message text

Path: g2news1.google.com!news4.google.com!news.glorb.com!news.ks.uiuc.edu!news.killfile.org!not-for-mail
From: newview <m...@privacy.net>
Newsgroups: news.admin.net-abuse.sightings
Subject: [email] SPAMIS: Strategic Partnership Against Microsoft Illegal Spam [Comcast Zombie 69.244.26.150]
Followup-To: news.admin.net-abuse.email
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 13:00:35 +0000 (UTC)
Organization: VeriMod (<URL:http://www.killfile.org/~tskirvin/verimod/>)
Lines: 249
Approved: nanas-...@cybernothing.org
Message-ID: <ogar91tta0espgortveqkhpn33spo0abkn@4ax.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: victor.killfile.org
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: victor.killfile.org 1117630835 7699 69.208.49.57 (1 Jun 2005 13:00:35 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: abuse@killfile.org
NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 13:00:35 +0000 (UTC)
X-Tn-Interface: 209.99.127.20
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American)
X-Dmca-Complaints-To: d...@comcast.net
X-Abuse-And-Dmca-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly
X-Postfilter: 1.3.31
Processed-By: Bob the NANAS ModBot <nanas-...@cybernothing.org>
X-Auth: PGPMoose V1.1 PGP news.admin.net-abuse.sightings
	iD8DBQFCnbFzv1i8LqUfqQURAkpbAJ9ccQ1FCSNxHvvUE/rglkRIAeBNSgCeKMAI
	oQm6Pey/PJOslnQnfrciOKU=
	=Q86i
X-Group-Homepage: http://www.killfile.org/~tskirvin/nana/
X-Mail-Path: horus.isnic.is [UNTRUSTED]!ram.mail2.aus.datafoundry.com [UNTRUSTED]!serv3.gc.dca.giganews.com!localhost.localdomain!pos...@giganews.com
X-Modbot: Bob the NANAS ModBot <nanas-...@cybernothing.org>
X-Original-Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 08:30:22 -0400
X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 07:30:21 -0500
X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 69.250.13.81
X-Original-Path: nntp.comcast.com!news.comcast.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
X-Original-To: news-admin-net-abuse-sighti...@moderators.isc.org
X-Poster-Complaints-To: ab...@comcast.net
X-Poster-Trace: sv3-6CaErsVHqLM+1Jx70cup7kRRyTEkRzBBT+yadZlcW91ODn+fq0Bb2H1+LffNsOQbKzXO51gOkwkhKDL!jaMgsCA+DMPsKO2FpoFVwzHrypGtde0H/TaAwgE2dBGxIplQJbwwEoH0jdxx+7ShnII6ThA=
X-Submissions-To: nanas-...@cybernothing.org

Received: from [69.244.26.150] (helo=pcp09536063pcs.gadsdn01.al.comcast.net)
	by [my domain] with smtp (Exim 4.43)
	id 1DdGbx-0002nH-E3
	for [my email]; Tue, 31 May 2005 18:57:31 -0500
X-Message-Info: RCKyIH1foIoyAJgdh2QNJbu2+WGQi0kgTBPOS
Received: from sokohnmtosf537.spamis.org (252) by rwv08-evm65.spamis.org with
Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824);
	 Tue, 31 May 2005 13:54:19 +0100
Received: from Damiendv2w24s065gx (28) by kufnqsd89.spamis.org
          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 421-350-826-339-577-81465) with SMTP
          id <938291867251911.WCSI910.lvwvc35322.spamis.org@sparklef7tn62uz40wzm>
          for <[my email]>; Tue, 31 May 2005 18:46:19 +0600
Message-ID: <3856wc204obj011$632782$gdz279b40@Damienag522w48e264z>
From: "SPAMIS: Strategic Partnership Against Microsoft Illegal Spam"
<cont...@spamis.org>
To: <[my email]>
Subject: SPAMIS: Strategic Partnership Against Microsoft Illegal Spam
Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 09:52:19 -0300
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="--08808731124687462910"
X-Spam-Exim: GVb9Lp5_HMdpc0IDS7DPzItb

----08808731124687462910
Content-Type: text/plain;
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

REPRINTED ARTICLE ABOUT MICROSOFT SENDING ILLEGAL SPAM


Junk mail from MS (Microsoft): Whose spam is it anyway?
by Graham Lea / The Register Technology News 
_____________________________________________________________

Special report "Spammers are thieves... They're hijacking your 
system to deliver their unrequested, unwanted advertising," 
says a new Microsoft web site paper by R'ykandar Korra'ti.

But Microsoft is on shaky ground when it comes to spam - in 
recent newsgroup posting the company's own abuse manager Mike 
Lyman has effectively been conceding that Microsoft sends out 
unwelcome, unsolicited mail, and that company staff are 
unwilling and unable to do much about it.

Microsoft's anti-spam stance is being undermined by a 
combination of faulty software systems, bureaucracy and 
incompetence.

Lyman means well, but getting Microsoft to deliver a service 
that comes close to Korra'ti's objectives seems to be like 
trying to push water uphill. This isn't helped by the greed 
factor operating on top of the other problems.

According to Korra'ti, "The allegedly legitimate' spammers... 
don't hide where their mail is coming from, and at least they 
pretend to offer a way off their lists." As far as quite a 
few users are concerned, that makes Microsoft a "legitimate 
spammer".

Several mailing lists and newsgroups are currently discussing 
complaints about Microsoft and spam, and there have been 
several clear instances where the company has been at fault, 
and where this has been conceded by Lyman. One of the problems, 
he admits, is a "tainted" database that isn't being fixed, and 
is still being used.

He also concedes that at least one mailing wasn't justified, 
that some Microsoft staff aren't acting according to official 
company policy when it comes to unsolicited mail, and that the 
company is currently far more concerned with privacy, and is 
therefore putting too few resources into cleaning up its own 
act on spam.

The database problems often make it difficult for people to get 
off the mailing list, which they could well have been put onto 
without their agreement. This is by no means unusual in the 
industry, but Microsoft continues to add people to its list, to 
use databases that haven't been properly cleaned up, and to 
transfer mailing lists to third parties without the knowledge 
or permission of the people listed.

The emailing that caused most ire was one about Microsoft's 
plans for Y2K (two copies of this one just this morning - Ed), 
but other smaller volume efforts continue. Some people also 
claim that visitors to Microsoft sites may find themselves 
getting unrequested newsletters.

And last week Microsoft is said to have mailed MCSE training 
course attendees who had specifically checked the 'no publicity' 
box.

When Microsoft sold Sidewalk to Citysearch, it seems to have 
sold its database without deleting those who had asked to be 
removed but at the time were possibly only flagged for removal. 
To their annoyance, they were then started hearing from Sidewalk: 
"Since you previously registered with Sidewalk, we thought you 
would like to know..." 

Unsolicited email from Microsoft may say that the email is being 
sent to "preferred members," but recipients frequently deny that 
they have ever knowingly become a "member" of any Microsoft list.

It can however be very difficult not to wind up on one or more 
Microsoft lists, via registration of OS or applications, or 
through the (largely compulsory) registration procedure for the 
Windows Update or Office Update services.

Microsoft inevitably gets its hands on details of a very large 
proportion of PC users, and it therefore has a duty to be 
serious, consistent and responsible in the way it handles this 
data.

But on the contrary, from what Lyman concedes it would seem 
Microsoft is inconsistent, irresponsible, and cavalier. Lyman 
admits that all is not well with Microsoft databases. He said in 
a newsgroup posting that "the data base was tainted and the 
mailing wasn't justified". 

But he seems to have little power to influence change at 
Microsoft, where the current concern at the group where he 
reports is privacy rather than spamming. He is unable personally 
to get at the faulty database, and in effect blames Microsoft's 
impenetrable bureaucracy.  When challenged about unplugging the 
offending servers, he wrote: "Physical ability does not equal 
authority". 

There are many examples of users taking all possible steps to get 
removed, and finding it impossible. People were "working to fix 
their messes," Lyman said, but even a threat to divert a $50,000 
budget to non-Microsoft products was only likely "to impact the 
local [Microsoft] weenie more than the guys at corp HQ who did 
the spamming."

He was also brutally frank about what happens when email is sent 
to addresses like ab...@microsoft.com: "you're probably hitting 
some little peon in the organisation who has zero say in how 
things are run. ... By the time the stuff gets to those who are 
the decision makers it's probably been boiled down to numbers and 
stats with maybe a few samples of the complaints. 600,000 messages 
went out, 100 complaints came back, hmm, must be doing a pretty 
good job.'"

Lyman notes that most Microsoft marketing people don't have 
Internet experience, and so fail to grasp the implications of what 
they're doing. As far as they're concerned what the recipients 
regard as unsolicited spam are "informative announcements".

Lyman says: "The one thing that's kept my frustration over the 
pace of things at Microsoft from completely boiling over is I 
deal with the same people for privacy issues as I do with spamming 
issues. They've been very focussed on piracy and frankly I'd 
rather have them focussed on privacy."

One of the greatest fears for spammers (at least the "legitimate" 
spammers who can be tracked and pilloried) is being black-listed 
by the Mail Abuse Protection System (MAPS) founded by Paul Vixie 
in 1997. MAPS has developed a Real-Time Black Hole List (RBL) used 
by some 300 licensed subscribing ISPs (numbers have doubled each 
year, so far) to block spam.

Nick Nicholas, the front man for MAPS, said there were 12 complete 
nominations to list Microsoft, and many incomplete ones, when the 
issue of black-listing Microsoft was raised. Lyman thinks that MAPS 
is trying to become an "anti-spamming version of TRUSTe" but is 
doing it from outside the corporate world.

This is true, and for the moment at least, MAPS does not enjoy too 
much major league support. MAPS admits it has made mistakes in its 
blacklists in the past. There were rumblings that Microsoft might 
sue MAPS if Microsoft was placed on the RBL list (Lyman ominously 
mentioned that "deep pockets usually win"), but Microsoft recently 
concluded a deal with MAPS to use the product in Hotmail to cut 
down on spam, making any legal action much less likely. 

Ironically, Hotmail itself has taken legal action against what it
regards as the abuse of Hotmail. Lyman claims that Microsoft has 
scheduled improving the database, but has no timing as to when this 
will happen.

He noted that he took a firm line with Microsoft and has overcome 
a view that persisted at Microsoft that people who complained had 
forgotten they had registered to receive spam.

In one message Lyman said of old requests to be removed "the 
database purge should clear them out", but it would be impossible 
to find any culprits for previous abuses on the Microsoft staff. 
But "if the harvested stuff is recent ["last year or so"], there's 
a major problem with policy violation and heads need to roll." So 
anybody getting junk mail from Microsoft to an email address first 
used in the last year should take up Lyman's offer to sort the 
matter out and contact him at usm...@hotmail.com.

He noted: "I hope other companies avoid the mistakes our folks 
made and go straight for the confirmed subscriptions up front. 
It'll save them lots of pain." 

Lyman appears to be a Microsoft person who is actually trying to 
sort out the spamming situation, but with little or no help. And 
there are those who say that the anti-spamming cure by the net cops 
is worse than the disease.

In Congress recently Rep Heather Wilson told a hearing that 
"banning all spam "may be unconstitutional because it would ban 
unsolicited mail that people do not mind receiving - or even want 
to receive..."

There is a way to block Microsoft spam for MS Exchange users who 
use Exchange to provide SMTP services, and it's described at 
info.edu/Techdir/relaying-exchange.html. There are also spam filter 
packages such as SLMail, MailShield, N-Plex, the Isode Message 
Switch, VOPmail, and WorldSecureMail.

In view of what Lyman says, a column "written" by Bill Gates on 
the subject of spam last year has a certain piquancy: "My company 
is among many that offer regular emailings to customers and 
potential customers. But we only send email to people who have 
requested it, and we have easy ways for people to remove themselves 
from the mailing list." 

This is clearly untrue. Gates then described spam: "Sometimes spam 
includes a purported way for you to remove yourself from the 
mailing list, but it often doesn't work. 

In fact, making the request may do nothing more than prove to the 
spammer that your e-mail address is valid - prompting more 
mailings."

Ahem. Gastronomic note: Spam stands for spiced ham, and is a 
trademark of Hormel Foods' tinned luncheon meat, first introduced 
in 1937. For this reason, spam is often referred to as unsolicited 
commercial email (UCE). There is also a spam fan club.



END OF ARTICLE


----08808731124687462910--


-- 
All postings to news.admin.net-abuse.sightings are unconfirmed and
unverified unless stated otherwise by the moderators.  All opinions
expressed above are considered the opinions of the original poster,
not the moderators or their respective employers.

For a copy of the guidelines to this group, see:

	http://www.killfile.org/~tskirvin/nana/

Create a group - Google Groups - Google Home - Terms of Service - Privacy Policy
©2009 Google