Political Censorship by Ken Lucke
Fred Cherry
Political Censorship by Ken Lucke (postm...@stopspam.org)
I'm getting sick and tired of this character Ken Lucke engaging in
discriminatory canceling of my posts. There are people who attack me, and
every time I try to respond to these attacks, along comes this character
Ken Lucke who cancels my posts. But he NEVER cancels the posts of the
people who are attacking me. First of all there is someone who calls
himself falcor. He is the official representative of the North American
Man/boy Love Association (NAMBLA), the largest and most influential
organization of child-molesters in the world. This falcor spams messages to
many usenet groups. When I try to respond by crossposting, falcor gets Ken
Lucke to cancel my posts.
Then there is Joseph Dunphy, an ally of falcor. Dunphy started a thread
about me titled: "Fred Cherry, Rapist Wanabee, and Bigot." He accused me in
that thread of admitting to buying child pornography involving S&M. When I
tried to defend myself, along comes Ken Lucke again and cancels my defense.
Then there is Adam Levenstein, a homosexual nazi. When I posted something
denouncing some homosexual who falsely stated that I had been arrested for
engaging in public homosexual sex, Levenstein posted a message completely
misquoting me and making me to appear insane. Levenstein could only get
away with this as long as the people who read Levenstein's message were
unable to read my message. Ken Lucke took care of this for Levenstein.
Then, every time I try to repost my message, Lucke comes along and within
an hour or so cancels my defense.
Up to now these homosexual nazis and these NAMBLA partisans were able to
silence me by massive complaints to my ISPs. I have been terminated with
extreme prejudice by three ISPs, and forced to stop defending myself by a
fourth.
A couple of years ago, In response to a posting of mine attacking NAMBLA, a
person calling himself bigballs@lickmynuts, posting from the illustrious
University of Virginia posted the following: "Hey, Buddy. Maybe you're in
need of a good dick up your ass!" When I complained to the powers-that-be
at the illustrious University of Virginia, they sided with bigballs. Later
on bigballs posted a "poem" in which he predicted that I would be
homosexually raped and then murdered by the rapist.
In all of this all of the usenet people insist that the only offender here
is myself. Threats of rape and murder aren't considered abuse, but
excessive crossposting, or crossposting to inappropriate groups, is. This
has got to stop. If usenet itself doesn't resolve this problem, then I will
go to conservative members of congress and get them to do something about
this.
*************************************************************************
Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves. - Lincoln
jo...@shore.net (Fred Cherry)
brian moore
In article <686n4l$m...@shell2.shore.net>,
Fred Cherry <jo...@shore.net> writes:
>
> Political Censorship by Ken Lucke (postm...@stopspam.org)
>
> I'm getting sick and tired of this character Ken Lucke engaging in
> discriminatory canceling of my posts. There are people who attack me, and
> every time I try to respond to these attacks, along comes this character
> Ken Lucke who cancels my posts.
Perhaps because you're spamming? Nah.
> But he NEVER cancels the posts of the
> people who are attacking me. First of all there is someone who calls
> himself falcor. He is the official representative of the North American
> Man/boy Love Association (NAMBLA), the largest and most influential
> organization of child-molesters in the world. This falcor spams messages to
> many usenet groups.
That's bad. Spam is a no-no. Got some message ID's?
> When I try to respond by crossposting, falcor gets Ken
> Lucke to cancel my posts.
Perhaps because you're spamming? Didn't your mother teach you that two
wrongs don't make a right?
> Then there is Joseph Dunphy, an ally of falcor. Dunphy started a thread
> about me titled: "Fred Cherry, Rapist Wanabee, and Bigot." He accused me in
> that thread of admitting to buying child pornography involving S&M. When I
> tried to defend myself, along comes Ken Lucke again and cancels my defense.
Was your "defense" spammed?
> Then there is Adam Levenstein, a homosexual nazi.
A person named Levenstein a nazi? Okay.... and a homosexual one, too!
Considering the nazi stance on gays, I somehow find that hard to imagine.
> When I posted something
> denouncing some homosexual who falsely stated that I had been arrested for
> engaging in public homosexual sex, Levenstein posted a message completely
> misquoting me and making me to appear insane.
That must have been very difficult, since you don't come across like a
raving loon at all.
> Levenstein could only get
> away with this as long as the people who read Levenstein's message were
> unable to read my message. Ken Lucke took care of this for Levenstein.
> Then, every time I try to repost my message, Lucke comes along and within
> an hour or so cancels my defense.
Stop posting the same thing over and over. That's called spamming, and is
bad.
> Up to now these homosexual nazis and these NAMBLA partisans were able to
> silence me by massive complaints to my ISPs. I have been terminated with
> extreme prejudice by three ISPs, and forced to stop defending myself by a
> fourth.
Probably because you spammed, no?
> A couple of years ago, In response to a posting of mine attacking NAMBLA, a
> person calling himself bigballs@lickmynuts, posting from the illustrious
> University of Virginia posted the following: "Hey, Buddy. Maybe you're in
> need of a good dick up your ass!" When I complained to the powers-that-be
> at the illustrious University of Virginia, they sided with bigballs. Later
> on bigballs posted a "poem" in which he predicted that I would be
> homosexually raped and then murdered by the rapist.
How come I think you're leaving parts of this out?
> In all of this all of the usenet people insist that the only offender here
> is myself. Threats of rape and murder aren't considered abuse,
We're not cops: take copies of posts that you think are illegal to your
local law enforcement officials and seek their advice. They have remedies
that are far stricter than any Usenet canceller could employ. If the
bad guys are breaking the law, they get to go to jail. Neat, huh?
> but
> excessive crossposting, or crossposting to inappropriate groups, is.
That's correct. It's the difference between "abuse on the net" and "abuse
of the net".
> This
> has got to stop. If usenet itself doesn't resolve this problem, then I will
> go to conservative members of congress and get them to do something about
> this.
Been there, done that. Don't you remember the CDA?
> Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves. - Lincoln
Exactly, yet you are seeking to deny freedom for others.
--
Brian Moore Kill A Spammer For Jesus
Sysadmin, C/Perl Hacker
Andrew Gierth
>>>>> "Fred" == Fred Cherry <jo...@shore.net> writes:
Fred> Political Censorship by Ken Lucke (postm...@stopspam.org)
[assorted nonsense elided]
Fred> In all of this all of the usenet people insist that the only
Fred> offender here is myself. Threats of rape and murder aren't
Fred> considered abuse, but excessive crossposting, or crossposting
Fred> to inappropriate groups, is.
The first is abuse *on* the net, and should be treated no differently
to other media (i.e., if the threats are in violation of any relevent
law, then take the matter up with the proper authorities; if they are
in breach of the originating site's conditions of use, then inform the
originating site).
The second is abuse *of* the net, which unlike the first is a matter
which involves others besides the poster and the party abused. This
is why third-party intervention is allowable (under certain rules) in
the second case and not the first.
--
Andrew.
Andrew Gierth
>>>>> "Ken" == Ken Lucke <spam...@stopspam.org> writes:
[re. Fred Cherry]
Ken> I also just checked every one of my filters, and there is not a
Ken> single shore net address in any of them. I also check DejaNews
Ken> for you, and I *don't even scan* any of the wildly crossposted
Ken> groups you tend to rant in.
Ken> I doubt you have any evidence at all that I have ever canceled
Ken> one single post of yours. If you do, I challenge you to provide
Ken> it here, and we'll see what it has to say.
In the interests of fairness, here's what I have in the archives:
----
Path: ...!newsfeed.internetmci.com!192.232.20.2!malgudi.oar.net!
+ bengal.tigerden.com!furry.olsy-na.com!cyberspam!not-for-mail
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 16:08:16 GMT
From: bri...@olsy-na.com
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich,alt.fan.shub-interne,alt.fan.skinny,
+ alt.fan.skulman,alt.sexual.abuse.recovery,alt.support.crossposting,
+ alt.religion.gay-les-bi-tran,soc.motss
Message-ID: <cancel.670qkr$m...@shell2.shore.net>
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Subject: cmsg cancel <670qkr$m...@shell2.shore.net>
Sender: jo...@shore.net (Fred Cherry)
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+ news.bbnplanet.com!shore!shell2.shore.net!not-for-mail
X-Original-Subject: Re: Where are all of the horney youg girsl at
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X-Original-From: jo...@shore.net (Fred Cherry)
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Spam/ECP/MMF cancelation
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Newsgroups: uva.want-ads,soc.singles,soc.motss,soc.culture.jewish,
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+ alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.jesus-christ,alt.christnet.evangelical,
+ alt.christnet,alt.censorship,alt.abortion
Reply-To: /dev/null@[127.0.0.1]
Sender: jo...@shore.net (Fred Cherry)
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Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 10:35:06 -0800
Organization: Stop Spam!
Approved: spamc...@stopspam.org
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+ Cabal.CESspool!bofh.vszbr.cz!news-xfer.mccc.edu!news.lightlink.com!
+ news.mv.net!shore!shell2.shore.net!not-for-mail
X-Original-Subject: Re: Mormons (Was: Gay rights in the 90s)
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Ignore
Excessive Cross Posted/Excessive Multi-Posted article canceled by Ken Lucke
+ <spamc...@stopspam.org>
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+ howland.erols.net!cyberspam!not-for-mail
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Newsgroups: uva.want-ads,soc.singles,soc.motss,soc.culture.jewish,
+ soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.british,soc.bi,
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+ alt.religion.mormon,alt.religion.gay-les-bi-tranalt.religion.christian,
+ alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.parents-teens,alt.misc,
+ alt.journalism.gay-press,alt.individualism,alt.homosexual,
+ alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.jesus-christ,alt.christnet.evangelical,
+ alt.christnet,alt.censorship,alt.abortion
Reply-To: /dev/null@[127.0.0.1]
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Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 10:35:23 -0800
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+ pallol.usenet.co.uk!usenet.co.uk!news-xfer.mccc.edu!news.lightlink.com!
+ news.mv.net!shore!shell2.shore.nt!not-for-mail
X-Original-Subject: Re: Mormons (Was: Gay rights in the 90s)
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X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: shell2.shore.net
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X-Original-Bytes: 4599
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Ignore
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+ <spamc...@stopspam.org>
----
--
Andrew.
Andrew Gierth
>>>>> "Ken" == Ken Lucke <spam...@stopspam.org> writes:
Ken> => X-Cancelled-By: bri...@olsy-na.com
Ken> Not mine - looks like you have someone else canceling your spam
Ken> as well.
I included that for completeness.
Ken> As I recall (I could be mistaken on this one), some of those
Ken> soc. groups have charters that prohibit crossposting to that
Ken> degree as well. You have to abide by the *most* restrictive
Ken> rule in you list of crossposted newsgroups.
True, but there's no consensus that allows charters of big-8 groups to
be enforced by third-party cancellation, only by the originating site.
The regional hierarchies involved, however, are free to institute
rules regarding crossposting, and enforce them by cancellation.
Restrictions on cross-regional posting are quite common in regional
hierarchies.
--
Andrew.
gaa...@utdallas.edu
brian moore (b...@cmc.net) wrote:
: In article <686n4l$m...@shell2.shore.net>,
: Fred Cherry <jo...@shore.net> writes:
[MULTIPLE BIG SNIPS]
: > Then there is Adam Levenstein, a homosexual nazi.
: A person named Levenstein a nazi? Okay.... and a homosexual one, too!
: Considering the nazi stance on gays, I somehow find that hard to imagine.
Since "nazi" was not capitalized, perhaps this is a reference to an
ultra-conservative as opposed to an official member of the Nazi party. I
agree that this would be unusual in Hitler's Germany, but not impossible.
There were Jewish "sympathizers" who sought to lengthen their own lives at
the expense of their fellow Jews, even in the concentration camps. Rare,
regrettable, forgivable, but true. There are gay Republicans, gay
Democrats, etc.: is a gay nazi totally out of the question? A Jewish
"renegade" might be accepted by modern nazis if only as someone who agreed
with the nazi opinions (a "token", a "whipping boy", etc.). A highly
unlikely but not impossible combination, and the longer I live the more I
am confronted with the things I thought previously unimaginable. I would
be interested in hearing more details *publicly* about this, since I am
not an expert in any of these areas.
BTW, I know some Iranians who converted to Judaism. They emigrated from
Iran for obvious reasons and sell specialized computer printer materials
(tractor-fed post cards, etc.). They are some of the nicest, most
professional people I have ever met. I don't know about their
sexuality in case you are interested! ;-)
: > When I posted something
: > denouncing some homosexual who falsely stated that I had been arrested for
: > engaging in public homosexual sex, Levenstein posted a message completely
: > misquoting me and making me to appear insane.
: That must have been very difficult, since you don't come across like a
: raving loon at all.
Agreed that he does not come across as a raving loon, but it is amazing
what someone can do with a little selective editing. Did you see "Mad
City"? (The scene concluding with Dustin Hoffman stating "That's what I
thought you said." is a good example.)
[MORE BIG SNIPS]
: How come I think you're leaving parts of this out?
How come you think he was leaving parts of this out? ;-) Just wondering....
Regardless of Mr. Cherry's opinions, are death threats ever a valid way
to respond to spamming, political incorrect views, etc.?
: > In all of this all of the usenet people insist that the only offender here
: > is myself. Threats of rape and murder aren't considered abuse,
: We're not cops: take copies of posts that you think are illegal to your
: local law enforcement officials and seek their advice. They have remedies
: that are far stricter than any Usenet canceller could employ. If the
: bad guys are breaking the law, they get to go to jail. Neat, huh?
Agreed for the most part. But suppose we compare the net to guns and
forget about any prejudice we may or may not have against the possession
of guns. Is the seller of a gun to a known criminal not also at least
partially guilty if that criminal uses that gun to commit a crime? It is
a tough job trying to balance freedom of expression on the net with abuse
of or on the net (see below), but there is also some degree of
responsibility inherent in the provision of any product or service to
someone who has been proven to abuse it, and thus providers of net
publication services need to accept a certain level of responsibility
appropriate to the circumstances. In the print medium, I would expect a
publisher who knowing printed threats or false advertising to also be held
responsible and therefore to exercise proper preventive and corrective
measures. "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure." And I
believe the statistics are that less than 1% of all people accused of
serious crimes ever spend a day in jail (I will be glad to check on this
if you like--my memory may be faulty.) So complaints to law enforcement
agencies may not be as productive as they seem in theory.
: > but
: > excessive crossposting, or crossposting to inappropriate groups, is.
: That's correct. It's the difference between "abuse on the net" and "abuse
: of the net".
To me this distinction, is somewhat arbitrary. If threats of violence
were made, perhaps we should not be asking "For Whom the Bell Tolls" in
determining whether to use network enforcement techniques. Granted, that
is not how the rules work now, but perhaps the way they should. IMO, we
are all victims when the net is abused in this fashion. I don't believe
that the allegations have been proven to be factual, however, at this
point. (Since the spamming issue has been addressed in other posts, I
don't want comment on that here and now.)
But presuming the accusations are correct, I wish that the net police felt
that this affects not only the parties involved, but all netizens who
become aware of such an alleged abuse. If Mr. Cherry becomes intimidated
by threats on the net toward his safety because of his opinions, who will
be next? I would much rather be spammed than seriously threatened with
violence. And what is the difference between a world where dissent is
discouraged by threats of violence and Nazi Germany?
Don't get me wrong: if Mr. Cherry is guilty of spamming newsgroups, this
is a serious problem. But my priorities make me believe that threats of
violence over the net are even more serious to us all--the "bell" tolls
for all of us.
: > Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves. - Lincoln
: Exactly, yet you are seeking to deny freedom for others.
Agreed in part. However, he (NOT Lincoln) is also apparently concerned
about the child molestation problem. From hearing a recent speech from a
member of the Dallas Vice Squad, who has the statistics to back up his
claims, child molestation is a much more severe problem than most people
imagine. Clearly in seeking, as one of Mr. Cherry's many implied goals,
to combat the child molestation problem, he would deny freedom to those
guilty of such crimes. Is that such a bad thing?
I hope that my lengthy comments are appropriate here. It seems to me that
there has been a "seniority sytem" develop in the net where those who have
been around the longest have the most impact on rules and regulations. I
would much rather see a system *totally* dedicated to the user, and hence
a system constantly striving to meet the needs of the user, whether novice
or not. As I result I felt compelled to give a lowly user's viewpoint
with respect to this discussion.
: --
: Brian Moore Kill A Spammer For Jesus
: Sysadmin, C/Perl Hacker
I feel the "Kill a Spammer for Jesus" is in somewhat poor taste. People
have a right to their religious opinions or lack thereof in this country
(the US). Please, let's not make such statements which could be
interpreted as even a mild attack on those of the Christian faith or any
other faith (including atheists, agnostics, etc.). Your comment didn't
bother me, but I know some who would be deeply hurt by it.
-----------------------------
Jim "Not requesting any special favors or treatment rather than to be
respected as a fellow human being" Sullivan
brian moore
In article <68aine$q9f$1...@news.utdallas.edu>,
gaa...@utdallas.edu writes:
>: --
>: Brian Moore Kill A Spammer For Jesus
>: Sysadmin, C/Perl Hacker
>
> I feel the "Kill a Spammer for Jesus" is in somewhat poor taste.
Usenet is in 'somewhat poor taste'.
> People
> have a right to their religious opinions or lack thereof in this country
> (the US).
Absolutely... so?
> Please, let's not make such statements which could be
> interpreted as even a mild attack on those of the Christian faith or any
> other faith (including atheists, agnostics, etc.).
Go look me up in Dejanews... when I'm feeling creative, the diety changes.
Kill a spammer for insert-your-diety-here. Diety is used in a loose sense
here and includes dieties of Norse, Greek, Roman, Native American, Brasilian
and other origins (including Eric Clapton). There are a million and one
dieties (I'll let you decide which to worship) and therefore a million and
one reasons to kill a spammer.
> Your comment didn't
> bother me, but I know some who would be deeply hurt by it.
Oh, well. Tell them to get a clue and move on with their lives if they
are 'deeply hurt' by a .sig. If someone is that overly sensitive, how
do they survive on the 'net (let alone Usenet)? Their heads must explode
if they get into a flame war.
> -----------------------------
>
> Jim "Not requesting any special favors or treatment rather than to be
> respected as a fellow human being" Sullivan
Um, right. Then respect -my- right to express myself as I see fit.
--
Brian Moore Kill A Spammer For Cthulu
Sysadmin, C/Perl Hacker
Rebecca Ore
brian moore <b...@cmc.net> writes:
> In article <68aine$q9f$1...@news.utdallas.edu>,
> >
> > Jim "Not requesting any special favors or treatment rather than to be
> > respected as a fellow human being" Sullivan
>
> Um, right. Then respect -my- right to express myself as I see fit.
>
> --
> Brian Moore Kill A Spammer For Cthulu
> Sysadmin, C/Perl Hacker
And spike a spammer for Gaia.
--
Rebecca Ore
Usenet Environmental Cleanup Crew.
Fred Cherry
brian moore <b...@cmc.net> writes:
>--
>Brian Moore Kill A Spammer For Cthulu
>Sysadmin, C/Perl Hacker
What an idiot! You can't get anything right, can you?
It's not Cthulu. It's Cthulhu. Hu Hu Hu Hu. Got it?
I posted something the other day in alt.sex.cthulhu. Unless one of you
cancelers has canceled it, it should still be there.
They have an interesting system of canceling in that newsgroup. They
demand that you insert "Cthulhu" as a keyword when posting. Otherwise they
cancel your message and send you E-Mail explaining their policy. But their
cancelation doesn't apply to other newsgroups that the message was
crossposted to.
jo...@shore.net (Fred Cherry)
Andrew Gierth
>>>>> "Fred" == Fred Cherry <jo...@shore.net> writes:
Fred> They have an interesting system of canceling in that newsgroup. They
Fred> demand that you insert "Cthulhu" as a keyword when posting.
Or any one of a bunch of other similar words (I forget the full list).
Fred> Otherwise they cancel your message and send you E-Mail
Fred> explaining their policy. But their cancelation doesn't apply to
Fred> other newsgroups that the message was crossposted to.
Yes, it does.
--
Andrew.
brian moore
In article <68bodj$7...@shell2.shore.net>,
Sure, Freddy.
> It's not Cthulu. It's Cthulhu. Hu Hu Hu Hu. Got it?
Yawn.
> I posted something the other day in alt.sex.cthulhu. Unless one of you
> cancelers has canceled it, it should still be there.
Wow... I posted in lots of places yesterday.
> They have an interesting system of canceling in that newsgroup. They
> demand that you insert "Cthulhu" as a keyword when posting. Otherwise they
> cancel your message and send you E-Mail explaining their policy. But their
> cancelation doesn't apply to other newsgroups that the message was
> crossposted to.
Good for them. Explain how that works, please, since there is no way to
cancel from just one group. Either a message exists or it doesn't.
What an idiot! You can't get anything right, can you?
--
Brian Moore Kill A Spammer For Pope John Paul George Ringo
Sysadmin, C/Perl Hacker
Fred Cherry
In Message-ID: <686ol7$9c1$1...@news.cmc.net>
Newsgroups: news.admin.net-abuse.policy
Subject: Re: Political Censorship by Ken Lucke
Date: 28 Dec 1997 23:51:27 GMT
brian moore <b...@cmc.net> wrote:
> In article <686n4l$m...@shell2.shore.net>,
> Fred Cherry <jo...@shore.net> writes:
> >
> > Political Censorship by Ken Lucke (postm...@stopspam.org)
> >
> > I'm getting sick and tired of this character Ken Lucke engaging in
> > discriminatory canceling of my posts. There are people who attack me,
> > and every time I try to respond to these attacks, along comes this
> > character Ken Lucke who cancels my posts.
>
> Perhaps because you're spamming? Nah.
Look, idiot, I'll explain this so that even someone as stupid as you can
understand it.
I am NOT spamming. Gregory Byshenk is the authority on spamming. He posts a
FAQ on spamming. He says that crossposting is NOT spamming.
I am not going to point you in the direction of his post, because you are
obviously too stupid to understand what he is saying. Instead I will tell
you to E-Mail him. his E-Mail address is gbys...@tezcat.com. Perhaps after
a few messages back-and-forth, he can explain it to you.
> > But he NEVER cancels the posts of the
> > people who are attacking me. First of all there is someone who calls
> > himself falcor. He is the official representative of the North American
> > Man/boy Love Association (NAMBLA), the largest and most influential
> > organization of child-molesters in the world. This falcor spams
> > messages to many usenet groups.
>
> That's bad. Spam is a no-no. Got some message ID's?
That material has long since expired.
Anyway, why do I have to report to you people. You people can find my posts
and cancel them within one hour. Why can't you do the same with other
people's posts? Now, here is an example of someone who ADMITS to enlarging
the newsgroups header. Why wasn't HE canceled? It couldn't have been
because he was attacking me, could it? Oh, no. Impossible, you say.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: andy beckwith <beck...@bayou.uh.edu>
Newsgroups: uva.want-ads,talk.religion.misc,talk.christianity,
talk.atheism,talk.abortion,soc.women,soc.singles,soc.motss,soc.men,
soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.israel,
soc.culture.african.american,rec.sport.pro-wrestling,
news.admin.censorship,alt.skinheads,alt.satanism,
alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.homosexuality,
alt.politics.equality,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.clinton,
alt.personals.bi,alt.parents-teens,alt.pagan,alt.nuke.the.USA,
alt.neo-tech,alt.misc,alt.mindcontrol,alt.mens-rights,alt.meditation,
alt.kill.the.whales,alt.individualism,alt.homosexual,alt.freaks,
alt.flame,alt.feminism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.noam-chomsky,
alt.fan.cock-sucking,alt.evil,alt.discrimination,alt.current-events.usa,
alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,alt.culture.usenet,
alt.culture.internet,alt.culture.hawaii,alt.christnet,alt.censorship,
alt.blasphemy,alt.atheism,alt.apocalypse,alt.anarchism,alt.america,
alt.activism,alt.usenet.kooks
Subject: Re: That's what NAMBLA is?
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 17:41:36 -0600
Organization: TCSUH ( Research Assistant)
Lines: 66
Messag-ID: <33CFFF...@bayou.uh.edu>
References: <33BD22...@beachnet.com>
<Pine.SUN.3.95q.97070...@ganymede.cs.mun.ca>
<33BEC6...@beachnet.com>
<Pine.SUN.3.95q.97070...@ganymede.cs.mun.ca>
<33C55C...@cadvision.com> <33C57C0C...@beachnet.com>
<33C80C...@complete.net> <33CABA9B...@beachnet.com>
<33CAD1...@cadvision.com> <33CBF36D...@beachnet.com>
<Pine.SUN.3.95q.97071...@ganymede.cs.mun.ca>
<8691973...@dejanews.com> <EDJ49...@world.std.com>
Reply-To: beck...@bayou.uh.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: pmac45.110.sw-building.uh.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Macintosh; I; PPC)
Status: RO
X-Status:
Fred Cherry wrote:
>
> falc...@ix.netcom.com writes:
>
> >Miracle Max <rob...@cs.mun.ca> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Tue, 15 Jul 1997, Bob Barnett wrote:
> >>
> >> > Final word-
> >> >
> >> > Miracle Max is Robert David Evans, 18, of Charlottetown, Prince Edward
> >> > Island, Canada.
> >> > His juvenile record is sealed.
> >> >
> >> > He was arrested Feb 23, 1997, in Buffalo, NY, for attempting to
> >> > molest fraternal twins (unnamed juveniles) who were watching a
> >> > wrestling program. That was the date of WCW's Superbrawl.
> >> > Charges were dropped for lack of evidence
> >> >
> >> > He was arrested June 20. 1997, at the Sunny Rest Lodge in Carbon Co.
>> > > PA, by the PA State Police, for causing a disturbance, and drunk and
> >> > disorderly. At the time of arrest, he stated that he was a member of
> >> > the Horatio Alger Chapter of NAMBLA in New York City, and that he had
> >> > prior arrests as a juvenile for breaking and entering. Charges are
> >> > pending.
> >> > The Sunny Rest Lodge is a nudist colony.
> >>
> >> Bob Barnett, these acusations are completely untrue! Flaming me for
> >> one thing or another is one thing, but this is uncalled for. I'm
> >> sending this message to your postmaster. You sir, are not worthy of
> >> being called a man.
>
> >The Horatio Alger chapter of NAMBLA folded in 1992. Since then, NAMBLA
> >had not had regularly meeting chapters, and members are invited to the
> >annual membership conference only. If what Bob Barnett said is true, that
> >Miracle Max was a regular at NAMBLA chapter meetings, the last time this
> >20 yo man attended such a meeting, he was 15! Granted, there were always
> >teenaged members at the meetings, but none of them would ever deny
> >attending.
>
> >Bob knows a little bit more about NAMBLA than I or our other usenet
> >posters ever bother to write about. In fact, the only place to find out
> >about the Horatio Alger chapter of NAMBLA is in back issues of the NAMBLA
> >Bulletin. Bob, you don't mind if I go back to the office and check the
> >records to find out when you bought those Bulletins, do you?
>
> Who do you think you're fooling? NAMBLA bulletins are on sale in the homo
> bookstore: "A DIFFERENT LIGHT." In 1994 there were TWO homo parades in New
> York City. In the alternate homo parade, which was organized EXCLUSIVELY
> for NAMBLA members and their supporters, free copies of the NAMBLA
> bulletin were handed out along the line of march.
>
> jo...@world.std.com (Fred Cherry)
Why do you have to spam this shit all over creation ? Do you
think that we CARE ?
You remind me of the preacher who was gay who screamed day and
night about the evils of " homosexuality". Unless you tone it down a
bit people frankly are going to start wondering about your sexual
orientation.
Andrew Walcott Beckwith
p.s. - Your insipid idiotsy made me send this to alt.usenet.kooks
where it should be enshrined in a local website about the weirder
side of the net which should not be emulated.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > When I try to respond by crossposting, falcor gets Ken
> > Lucke to cancel my posts.
>
> Perhaps because you're spamming? Didn't your mother teach you that two
> wrongs don't make a right?
First of all, YOU, not being content with insulting me, stoop to insulting
my mother, OK, if that's the way you want to argue, then I'm going to teach
YOU a lesson. Why didn't YOUR mother teach you not to insult other people's
mothers? Was it perhaps that she was an alcoholic? Or was she a drug
addict?
Second, I'll explain this business of two wrongs don't make a right so that
even an idiot like YOU can understand it.
Suppose a cop shoots an unarmed man who is not violating any law. That's a
wrong.
Suppose a man shoots at a cop. That's a wrong.
Now, suppose that a man shoots at a cop and the cop shoot back at him. That
is NOT a wrong, because the cop is defending himself. Get it?
Now, I am defending myself from attacks on my reputation and, at other
times, attacking NAMBLA. Neither of those two things are wrongs.
> > Then there is Joseph Dunphy, an ally of falcor. Dunphy started a thread
> > about me titled: "Fred Cherry, Rapist Wanabee, and Bigot." He accused
> > me in that thread of admitting to buying child pornography involving
> > S&M. When I tried to defend myself, along comes Ken Lucke again and
> > cancels my defense.
>
> Was your "defense" spammed?
The manner in which you put quotes around the word "defense", clearly shows
whose side YOU are on.
Dunphy's attack on me was CROSSPOSTED (not spammed, idiot) to 27
newsgroups. My defense was crossposted to 27 newsgroups.
Here is another example of something by Dunphy. No matter what the subject
of the thread, Dunphy always manages to put his two cents worth of attacks
against me into the thread.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: st...@typhoon.xnet.com (Joseph Dunphy)
Newsgroups: news.admin.net-abuse.misc,alt.usenet.kooks,alt.stupidity,
soc.culture.israel,comp.org.eff.talk
Subject: Tim Skirvin, Jon Kamens, harassment and equal time
Date: 20 Dec 1997 23:33:35 GMT
Organization: Xnet - Hey, at least we're not InterAccess (312) 976 - 1212
Lines: 100
Messag-ID: <67hkkf$qg6$1...@flood.xnet.com>
Reply-To: usenet-b...@mathworks.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: typhoon.xnet.com
Status: RO
X-Status:
Apparently two fairly well known trolls, Tim Skirvin and Jonathan Kamens,
saw fit to come on line, a while back, and tell half of a story. Being the
person who was so spoken about, behind my back (as I wasn't aware of the
discussion at the time), I am now going to set the record straight.
Back when I was st...@mcs.com, I got pulled into Fred Cherry's thread,
the thread that would not die. The one about NAMBLA, which Cherry has seen
fit to post, it seems, in every group that he can possibly think of, for
years, now. When I encountered this thread, Fred was in one of his calmer
moods, and seemed far more reasonable than he actually was.
[etc., etc., ad infinitum and ad nauseam]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Then there is Adam Levenstein, a homosexual nazi.
>
> A person named Levenstein a nazi? Okay.... and a homosexual one, too!
> Considering the nazi stance on gays, I somehow find that hard to imagine.
Well, that show how ignorant you are of history. Here is something I
posted several years ago in ComPUserve. As you can see, the powers-that-be
in ComPUserve believe in one-sided debate, just as you do.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jo...@halcyon.halcyon.com (Fred Cherry)
Newsgroups: uk.religion.jewish,soc.culture.israel,israel.lists.il-talk,
israel.israeline,alt.society.conservatism,alt.society.civil-liberty,
alt.sex.homosexual,alt.sex.advocacy,alt.revisionism,alt.religion.sexuality,
alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.sex,alt.politics.libertarian.gay,
alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.homosexual,soc.culture.german,
soc.culture.austria,alt.activism,soc.motss,uva.want-ads,alt.censorship,
soc.men,soc.women,soc.singles
Subject: Re: NAZI HOMOSEXUALS ATTACK GERMAN ANTI-NAZI.
Date: 26 Jan 1996 16:28:19 GMT
Organization: Johns & Call Girls United Against Repression
Lines: 359
Messag-ID: <4eavf3$f...@news1.halcyon.com>
References: <4e8ton$d...@news1.halcyon.com> <4e9o98$t...@artemis.it.luc.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: halcyon.com
Status: RO
X-Status:
In Message-ID: <4e9o98$t...@artemis.it.luc.edu>
Newsgroups: uk.religion.jewish,soc.culture.israel,israel.lists.il-talk,
israel.israeline,alt.society.conservatism,alt.society.civil-liberty,
alt.sex.homosexual,alt.sex.advocacy,alt.revisionism,alt.religion.sexuality,
alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.sex,alt.politics.libertarian.gay,
alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.homosexual,soc.culture.german,
soc.culture.austria,alt.activism,soc.motss,uva.want-ads,alt.censorship,
soc.men,soc.women,soc.singles
Subject: Re: NAZI HOMOSEXUALS ATTACK GERMAN ANTI-NAZI.
Date: 26 Jan 1996 05:19:36 GMT
msm...@orion.it.luc.edu (Michael Smith) wrote:
>Looks like Kevin Abrams has a new loyal follower. I wonder if he's
>going to scam people with a book too.
I am not a follower of Kevin Abrams. I am a friend and ally of Kevin
Abrams. There is a difference. I was saying essentially the same things
five years ago. In fact I was censored by ComPUserve more than five years
ago for criticizing the notion of a "Gay Holocaust." Here is the
transcript:
///////////////////////////////snip///////////////////////////////
#: 78730 S17/Lesbian/Gay Issues
07-Dec-90 23:56:10
Sb: #78708-QN
Fm: Susan 74030,457
To: PRESTON GANT 76516,2760
Because they had to wear pink triangles, we have to wear pink triangles. What
you're suggesting is "passing." What they hate us for is our sexualilty and
so it's our sexuality that they have to be forced to see. I don't like it
much, either. I'm a nice middle=class Jewish girl. But we've got to do it.
For now. Later on, we can look for similarities. If there are any of us left
alive. Too bad, eh?
Press <CR> for next or type CHOICES !
Section 17 - Lesbian/Gay Issues
1 Gay Eagle banned (1)
2 Homophobia 3' (8)
3 A Sad State of Affairs (8)
4 Goodbye, Artemis (3)
5 Questions (2) (1)
6 QN (1)
7 QN (3)
8 Bias (3)
9 Russkie Pinks (1)
7 Enter choice(s) !7
#: 79129 S17/Lesbian/Gay Issues
10-Dec-90 04:53:01
Sb: #78730-#QN
Fm: FRED CHERRY 70671,3677
To: Susan 74030,457
To a nice middle-class Jewish girl from a not-nice middle-class Jewish boy:
Dear Nice,
First of all, You say: "What they hate us for is our sexualilty and so it's
our sexuality that they have to be forced to see." Well, believe me, no one
is forcing me to see pages 143 through 153 of the January '91 issue of
PENTHOUSE Magazine, which shows a pair of beautiful young lesbians, or
pseudo-lesbians, doing their lesbianic thing. In fact, it's just the
opposite. Andrea Dworkin, a prominent lesbian leader, is trying to PREVENT me
from seeing photographs like that.
What I hate people like you for is your politics. You call yourselves Jewish
and yet you condone the worst kinds of Jew-hatred. I am referring to the Gay
and Lesbian Caucus of the New Alliance Party. That group marches in the anual
New York City Gay Parade every year. That group proclaims, in its official
newspaper The National Alliance, that they support Farrakhan. Do you have any
idea of the type of hatred that Farrakhan has been peddling lately? Steven
Coakley, a Farrakhan supporter, claims that Jewish doctors are deliberately
infecting Black babies with AIDS as a means of genocide against Black people.
Do you realize what is going to happen? Do you know what a pogrom is? Did you
ever hear of the "blood libel"? Well, let me clue you in. In the last
century, every time a child disappeared, Jew-haters would spread the rumor
that Jews had murdered the child and were using its blood to make matzos. As
a result of people believing this rumor, there were mass attacks upon Jewish
communities in which many Jews were slaughtered. These attacks were called
pogroms. If people start believing Coakley, pogroms may start up again. So,
why don't Jewish gay organizations protest the presence of the New Alliance
Party in the gay parade?
(continued in next message)
There is 1 Reply.
Press <CR> for next or type CHOICES !
#: 79130 S17/Lesbian/Gay Issues
10-Dec-90 04:54:53
Sb: #79129-#QN
Fm: FRED CHERRY 70671,3677
To: FRED CHERRY 70671,3677 (X)
(continued from previous message)
Then there is this bit about the "gay holocaust", and the pink triangles that
I keep seeing. That is truly the type of "big lie" for which Goebbels was
famous. Have you forgotten that it was homosexuals who put Hitler into power
in the first place? Did you ever hear of Ernest Roehm? Ernest Roehm was a
homosexual (William L. Shirer, THE RISE AND FALL OF THE THIRD REICH, Fawcett
Crest Paperback Edition, page 64). He was such a close friend of Hitler that
he was the only man whom Hitler addressed by the familiar personal pronoun
*du* (Shirer, op. cit. page 288). He was the leader of the Nazi Stormtroopers
(Shirer, op. cit. page 207). He was one of the six men who constituted the
inner circle of the Nazi Party in 1931 (Shirer, op. cit. page 206). Roehm, of
course, was only one of many Nazi leaders who were homosexual. The S.A., also
known as the Stormtroopers, was overrun with them. As Shirer has written:
"Many of its top leaders beginning with its chief, Roehm, were notorious
homosexual perverts. Lieutenant Edmund Heines, who led the Munich S.A., was
not only a homosexual but a convicted murderer. These two, and dozens of
others, quarreled and feuded as only men of unnatural sexual inclinations,
with their peculiar jealousies can" (Shirer, op. cit. page 172). Shirer also
wrote: "Hitler had known all along, from the earliest days of the party, that
a large number of his closest and most important followers were sexual
perverts [i.e. homosexuals] and convicted murderers. It was common talk, for
instance, that Heines used to send S,.A, men scurrying all over Germany to
find him suitable male lovers. There things Hitler had not only tolerated but
defended; more than once he had warned his party comrades against being to
squeamish about a man's personal morals if he were a fanatical fighter for
the movement" (Shirer, op. cit. page 312).
(continued in next message)
There is 1 Reply.
Press <CR> for next or type CHOICES !
#: 79131 S17/Lesbian/Gay Issues
10-Dec-90 04:56:57
Sb: #79130-QN
Fm: FRED CHERRY 70671,3677
To: FRED CHERRY 70671,3677
(continued from previous message)
It is true that Hitler killed Roehm and many other leaders of the S.A. during
"the night of the long knives", at the end of June '34. Shirer says that this
was done to obtain the support of the officer corps of the German Army.
Joachim C. Fest, in his book HITLER, says that this was done as a pre-emptive
strike against Roehm, because Hitler could see that it was inevitable that
Roehm would come to open rebellion against Hitler. In any event, it is clear
that homosexuals did MORE than their share to put Hitler into power. Now you,
and other homosexuals, come forward and cry for sympathy, claiming that
homosexuals were Hitler's victims. That what I call *chutzpah*!!
[translation, nerve, like a person killing his or her parents and asking for
sympathy on the grounds that he or she is an orphan].
Anyway, please stop trivializing the Holocaust by comparing it to the killing
of the homosexual supporters of Hitler. Those homosexual followers of Hitler
who were killed at the end of June '34, got just what they deserved for
supporting Hitler. Either that, or stop calling yourself Jewish. It truly
shames and humiliates me when I see Jewish people taking your position.
By the way, does the name "Sobibor" mean anything to you?
Themadmailer
(70671,3677)
Press <CR> for next or type CHOICES !
////////////////////////////////snip///////////////////////////////////
Compuserve limits people to 2,048 bytes per message. The customary and
accepted way to get around that limit is as shown.
After I had posted those three messages, they were IMMEDIATELY deleted, and
these messages, berating me, were posted.
//////////////////////////////////snip///////////////////////////////
Section 17 - Lesbian/Gay Issues
1 Homophobia 3' (5)
2 A Sad State of Affairs (2)
3 QN (2)
4 QN (2)
7 Enter choice(s) !4
#: 79407 S17/Lesbian/Gay Issues
11-Dec-90 04:42:48
Sb: QN
Fm: Frances Bannowsky <s17> 76340,3030
To: FRED CHERRY 70671,3677
Fred, your statement to Susan that what you hate about "people like you is
your politics", followed by a diatribe against a particular organization was
out of hand. It's okay to disagree with Susan, but she is not the only
lesbian, or the only Jewish lesbian to frequent this place, and singling her
out for a personal attack, especially such an unfounded one is not
productive.
Her statement (paraphrased) that what most people hate is our sexuality is
pretty true. And that we therefore owe it to them to allow them to become
accustomed to that part of us makes a lot of sense. That sort of statement
does not deserve an assault.
Press <CR> for next or type CHOICES !
#: 79408 S17/Lesbian/Gay Issues
11-Dec-90 04:42:54
Sb: QN
Fm: Frances Bannowsky <s17> 76340,3030
To: FRED CHERRY 70671,3677
Fred, again you've personally assaulted Susan. And again the assault was
misdirected. That is destructive to discussion. And, as you know, it is
against CIS policy and the policy of this forum. In this series of messages
you have accused her of being a Nazi, or, at the very least, a Nazi
sympathizer, when all she said was that she thinks gay people should come out
of the closet and make people look at them whole, including their sexuality.
If you want your messages to continue to be published, you'd better keep the
personal invective out of them.
Press <CR> for next or type CHOICES !
/////////////////////////////////snip///////////////////////////////////
So, then I tried a different forum. Here is what I posted next:
////////////////////////////////snip////////////////////////////////////
#: 79567 S3/Individualism
11-Dec-90 21:45:46
Sb: Censorship on THIS Forum
Fm: FRED CHERRY 70671,3677
To: To All
The rules of this forum, which may be found by reading the Announcement by
the Sysop, provide, in part, as follows:
"A user may start a message thread on any issue in the Issues Forum by
posting a message on the chosen topic in the proper section. For a list of
section names, type <NAM>."
It sez, does it not, ANY ISSUE? Well, I would like to discuss the issue of
censorship on THIS forum of ComPUserve. Our new Assistant Sysop has censored
a number of my messages by deleting them. I charge that his stated reasons
for censoring my messages are fraudulent. I charge that he is applying a
double standard to my messages which are not being applied to other messages.
To be more specific, I am charged with being abusive. I charge that I am LESS
abusive than many other people who post messages in this forum. I charge that
the real reason my messages are being censored is simply because our new
Assistant Sysop disagrees with my point of view.
Themadmailer
(70671,3677)
Press <CR> for next or type CHOICES !2
/////////////////////////////////////snip////////////////////////////////
So, here is the response I got from the homosexual sysop of the "Issues"
forum of ComPUserve.
///////////////////////////////////snip////////////////////////////////
#: 79652 S3/Individualism
12-Dec-90 02:05:02
Sb: #79567-Censorship on THIS Forum
Fm: Sysop Ran Talbott 70506,60
To: FRED CHERRY 70671,3677 (X)
Fred,
The rules of this forum _also_ state:
Like all forums, The Issues Forum is a friendly place, and good manners are
expected of all members. Regardless of the intensity of their feelings,
members should refrain from foul language and similar anti-social behavior.
Respect and simple courtesy towards others are expected of all users.
and:
Gratuitous obscenity, personal disparagement (insulting another user's
intellect, personal habits etc. instead of focusing on the issue), libel and
deliberate disruption of forum discussions are all against forum policy.
The messages I deleted said that you "hate" some members of this forum,
called them "bigots", and made direct accusations of "deception" and
"stupidity". Those are _your_ words, Fred, not mine.
As I indicated to you privately, I consider that clearly out of bounds. I
did _not_ delete those messages that I did not consider violations, without
any regard to whether I agreed with them or not.
If you want to try to substantiate your claim that my reasons are
"fraudulent", you can do so quite simply, by reposting your comments on the
_issues_ without the comments about _members_.
Ran
Press <CR> for next or type CHOICES !
/////////////////////////////////////snip//////////////////////////////
Next, I posted the following:
///////////////////////////////////snip///////////////////////////////
The Issues Forum bSubjects Menu
Subject (# msgs)
Section 3 - Individualism
1 The law and lip-synching (1)
2 Censorship on THIS Forum (1)
7 Enter choice(s) !1
#: 79740 S3/Individualism
12-Dec-90 10:17:58
Sb: #79652-Censorship on THIS Forum
Fm: FRED CHERRY 70671,3677
To: Sysop Ran Talbott 70506,60
Sir,
I hereby formally resign from ComPUserve.
Furthermore, I hereby formally demand that all charges which ComPUserve has
made against my credit card for the previous ninety days, be refunded to me
on the grounds of fraud. That is, ComPUserve represents that it is providing
a service (public message board) but it is fraudulently depriving me of that
service by arbitrarily and capriciously censoring my messages.
Your suggestion that I debate these matters with you on THIS message board is
a sick joke. For example, I was specifically accused of having "stormtrooping
ways", and that sort of language directed against me was deemed acceptable.
Yet, in message # 79408, I am being accused of "personally assaulting"
someone by calling that person a Nazi sympathizer. Well, when a person
indicates that he or she sympathizes with Nazis, I don't know what else to
call such a person. And, in order to demonstrate this, I would have to upload
my ENTIRE message, which you have censored and have indicated would be
censored again. Obviously, when one of the parties to a debate (you) is also
refereeing the rules under which the debate is being held it would be self-
defeating for the other party (me) to continue.
Fred Cherry
Post Office Box 021017
Brooklyn, New York 11202-0022
Press <CR> for next or type CHOICES !
/////////////////////////////////snip//////////////////////////////////
*************************************************************************
Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves. - Lincoln
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now, once again, my message was IMMEDIATELY removed, while the message of
the homosexual sysop berating me remained. That's the homosexual idea of
fair play. Silence any and all opposition by any means possible.
Now, try and tell me that this character Apuleius isn't a homonazi. Here is
one of his posts. He is posting right now with extensive attacks against
me.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: eea...@mixcom.com (Apuleius)
Newsgroups: alt.sex.bestiality,alt.censorship,alt.homosexual,
alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.sex,alt.sex.services,alt.sex.brothels,
soc.men,soc.women,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.mens-rights,ne.motss,soc.motss,
soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.african.american,
alt.current-events.net-abuse,comp.org.eff.talk,news.admin.net-abuse.misc,
soc.singles,talk.rumors,alt.christnet.bible,alt.christnet,
alt.christnet.sex,alt.christnet.second-coming.real-soon-now,alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Where does which Bible condem Homosexuality?
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 21:05:02 GMT
Organization: Alpha.net -- Milwaukee, WI
Lines: 21
Distribution: inet
Messag-ID: <4692sj$c...@homer.alpha.net>
References: <Pine.SUN.3.91.950909...@garcia.efn.org>
<42vi1e$6...@eaglecap.eosc.osshe.edu>
<Pine.SUN.3.91.95091...@garcia.efn.org>
<43b5mn$o...@classic.iinet.com.au> <43cq0u$l...@hearst.cac.psu.edu>
<43ds9v$f...@classic.iinet.com.au> <john1.811352709@earth>
<43nvgi$20...@news.gate.net> <DF8Ku...@iglou.com> <john1.811691108@earth>
<43tha8$1q...@news.gate.net> <john1.811764612@earth
<440rck$s...@NNTP.MsState.Edu> <john1.811868380@earth>
<44bts4$1...@hydra.acs.ttu.edu> <john1.8...@cybercom.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dial42-239.mixcom.com
>The only parts of the Bible I accept are the Books of the Maccabees. This
>is NOT in the Kink James version of the Bible, but it is in the Douay
>(Roman Catholic) version of the Bible. These books describe how my Glorious
>Ancestors, the Maccabees fought and won a war against homosexual
>oppression. This material may also be found in "The Oxford Annotated Bible
>with the Apocrypha, Revised Standard Version", New York, Oxford University
>Press, 1965.
Pagans were quite tolerant of other religions. Those not acceptable
were usually ones having political overtones deemed dangerous to the
state.
Judaism brought INTOLERANCE into Western Civilization.
What goes around, comes around.
There is a straight and narrow road running from Leviticus to
Auschwitz.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > When I posted something
> > denouncing some homosexual who falsely stated that I had been arrested
> > for engaging in public homosexual sex, Levenstein posted a message
> > completely misquoting me and making me to appear insane.
>
> That must have been very difficult, since you don't come across like a
> raving loon at all.
It's amazing what one can do in one-sided debate. Here is what I mean. I
posted this message:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jo...@shore.net (Fred Cherry)
Newsgroups: uva.want-ads,soc.singles,soc.motss,soc.culture.jewish,
soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.british,soc.bi,
israel.lists.il-talk,alt.support.crossposting,alt.sex,alt.revisionism,
alt.religion.gay-les-bi-tran,alt.religion.christian,
alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.parents-teens,alt.misc,
alt.journalism.gay-press,alt.individualism,alt.homosexual,
alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.jesus-christ,alt.christnet.evangelical,
alt.christnet.christianlife,alt.christnet,alt.censorship,alt.abortion
Subject: Re: The Royal Bitch
Date: 15 Dec 1997 08:06:10 -0500
Organization: Shore.Net/Eco Software, Inc; (in...@shore.net)
Lines: 128
Messag-ID: <673a02$q...@shell2.shore.net>
References: <66u6cj$g...@shell2.shore.net>
<19971213234...@ladder02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: shell2.shore.net
Status: RO
X-Status:
In Message-ID: <19971213234...@ladder02.news.aol.com>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: The Royal Bitch
Date: 13 Dec 1997 23:40:05 GMT
qwik...@aol.com (Qwikspell) wrote:
> Hey, Mr Cherry, when did you get out of jail?
>
> For those readers unaware, Fred Cherry was arrested and charged with lewd
> conduct last week after being observed fellating another man in an
> alleyway behind a D'Agostino Market in Brooklyn. The small street running
> perpendicular to the alley is named, appropriately, Love Lane.
>
> Early reports failed to mention whether or not the other man was
> experienced, like Fred, in random trysting, or whether Fred was actually
> busting his cherry.
>
> Anyway, glad you're out.
>
> Glenn S.
This is one more example of the harassment I have had to endure because of
my opposition to NAMBLA.
NAMBLA is the acronym of the North American Man/Boy Love Association, the
most powerful and influential organization of homosexual child-molesters in
the world. The newsgroup soc.motss gives NAMBLA a free plug in its FAQ.
Just for mentioning this fact, almost every homosexual who posts on the
internet denounces me as a "homophobe."
Here is something that was done to me previously. For two years, starting
in 1984 a group of homosexual nazis who were NAMBLA sympathizers were
harassing me, mostly by telephone, telling me how happy they were that
Hitler had killed six million Jews. They found out that I am Jewish. And
then when I tried to get the police to do something, I was told that the
New York City Police Department Bias Unit only handles incidents in which
homosexuals are the victims of bias, not when they are the aggressors.
There is a complaint number at the 84th Precinct in Brooklyn. That number
is 16490. I don't know whether or not they still have records of that
complaint, but I do know that nothing was ever done.
Here is something that was posted on a number of Usenet newsgroups. This
work of "art" emanated from the illustrious University of Virginia.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.config,alt.internet.services,alt.sex,misc.legal,
alt.sex.exhibitionism,alt.sex.masturbation,alt.sex.services,
alt.sex.telephone,alt.sex.stories,misc.legal.computing,
alt.sex.voyeurism,alt.sex.pedophilia,alt.sex.wizards,alt.sex.telephone,
soc.motss,uva.want-ads,news.admin.net-abuse.misc,soc.singles,
alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.censorship,alt.homosexual,soc.men,soc.women,
alt.christnet
From: A Poet laurete <lega...@bullshiticus.com>
Subject: An Ode to Fred Cherry
X-Nntp-Posting-Host: cisco-slip8.acc.virginia.edu
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Messag-ID: <DK7xr...@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
Sender: use...@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Organization: University of Virginia
References: <john1.817932983@earth> <john1.819059637@earth>
<DJvu5...@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> <john1.819632348@earth>
<DK12I...@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> <john1.819794807@earth>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 00:09:07 GMT
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit)
Lines: 45
Status: RO
X-Status:
Twas the night before Judgement Day
and all thru the house
not a creature was stirring
except Fred the louse.
He was glued to his monitor
making a list
of all the bad people
having homosexual trysts.
His list was for Jesus
who Fred was sure
would condemn the naughty homos
for their email and slurs.
Fred knew he was right
his hate had no bounds
and all because
his asshole was made out of round.
Faster and faster
did poor Fred type
so obsorbed
in his newsgroup hype
He didn't notice the sound on the stair
The sound of a bulky man
with long dirty hair.
Straight from prison
with a hard on to share
slowly he crept
into poor Fred's lair.
Fred jumped with a start
then was frozen with fear
there stood the homo-rapist
hung like a bear.
While pumping Fred's ass
the rapist pistol did roar
he splattered Fred's brains
finally silencing Fred's keyboard.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
So, be prepared. Before anyone dares to make any unfavorable comment
concerning the power and influence of NAMBLA, be ready to pay the price.
*************************************************************************
Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves. - Lincoln
jo...@shore.net (Fred Cherry)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now, in response to that last message, Adam Lowenstein posted this:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Adam Levenstein <aml...@email.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: uva.want-ads,soc.singles,soc.motss,soc.culture.jewish,
soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.british,soc.bi,
israel.lists.il-talk,alt.support.crossposting,alt.revisionism,
alt.religion.gay-les-bi-tran,alt.religion.christian,
alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.parents-teens,alt.misc,
alt.journalism.gay-press,alt.individualism,alt.homosexual,
alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.jesus-christ,alt.christnet.evangelical,
alt.christnet.christianlife,alt.christnet,alt.censorship,alt.abortion
Subject: Re: The Royal Bitch
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 09:34:04 -0500
Organization: Penn State University, Center for Academic Computing
Lines: 22
Messag-ID: <34953FDC...@email.psu.edu>
References: <66u6cj$g...@shell2.shore.net>
<19971213234...@ladder02.news.aol.com>
<673a02$q...@shell2.shore.net>
Reply-To: c...@worker.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: aml161.rh.psu.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I)
Status: RO
X-Status:
Fred Cherry wrote:
>
<big snip>
OK, lemme get this straight...NAMBLA, the
organization that *nobody* likes, and everybody
makes jokes about, is actually a mafia-like
organization that employs gangs of "homosexual
Nazis" *snicker* to harrass its opposition.
Excuse me, but you ARE aware that psychologists can
help paranoia, right?
------------------------------------------------
Adam Levenstein Young Socialists
http://pages.prodigy.com/AHSG60C/
"The ends justify the means only if the ends are
justified."
-- Leon Trotsky
------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
You see what one can get away with in one-sided debate. That's one thing
that NAMBLA and its supporters are good at. They KNOW how to silence the
opposition.
> > Levenstein could only get
> > away with this as long as the people who read Levenstein's message were
> > unable to read my message. Ken Lucke took care of this for Levenstein.
> > Then, every time I try to repost my message, Lucke comes along and
> > within an hour or so cancels my defense.
>
> Stop posting the same thing over and over. That's called spamming, and is
> bad.
No, idiot, it's called crossposting. When I do it, you say it's bad. When
Lowenstein does it, you approve of it.
> > A couple of years ago, In response to a posting of mine attacking
> > NAMBLA, a person calling himself bigballs@lickmynuts, posting from the
> > illustrious University of Virginia posted the following: "Hey, Buddy.
> > Maybe you're in need of a good dick up your ass!" When I complained to
> > the powers-that-be at the illustrious University of Virginia, they
> > sided with bigballs. Later on bigballs posted a "poem" in which he
> > predicted that I would be homosexually raped and then murdered by the
> > rapist.
>
> How come I think you're leaving parts of this out?
Well, you have already indicated which side you are on. That's why you
think I'm leaving parts of this out.
I'll tell you what I'm gonna do. I am posting something from some of the
powers-that-be at the illustrious University of Virginia. Why don't you
E-Mail one of those "gentlemen" and ask him if he wants to debate the issue
right here and now.
From: jo...@usa.net (Fred Cherry)
Newsgroups: alt.sex.bestiality,alt.censorship,alt.homosexual,
alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.sex,alt.sex.services,
news.admin.net-abuse.misc,soc.men,soc.women,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,
uva.want-ads,alt.mens-rights,soc.motss,soc.culture.israel,
soc.culture.african.american,uva.general,alt.current-events.net-abuse,
comp.org.eff.talk,soc.singles,talk.rumors,alt.christnet,alt.christnet.sex,
alt.christnet.second-coming.real-soon-now,alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Pedophilia & Pederasty Defined........
Date: 10 Dec 1995 10:44:16 -0700
Organization: Johns & Call Girls United Against Repression
Lines: 218
Distribution: inet
Messag-ID: <john1.818617323@earth>
References: <Pine.SOL.3.91.951201080614.4987A-100000@earth>
<DJ94K...@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
NNTP-Posting-Host: earth.usa.net
Status: O
X-Status:
In Message-ID: <DJ94K...@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
Newsgroups: alt.sex.bestiality,alt.censorship,alt.homosexual,
alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.sex,alt.sex.services,
news.admin.net-abuse.misc,soc.men,soc.women,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,
uva.want-ads,alt.mens-rights
Subject: Re: Pedophilia & Pederasty Defined........
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 05:00:34 GMT
ac...@avery.med.Virginia.EDU (NightSerf) wrote:
>Fred: it is very poor netiquette to post private
>correspondence in a public forum. It is also a copyright
>infringement to do so without my permission. Don't do it
>again. You really should subscribe to news.announce.newusers
>and read the various articles that are posted there.
You say that: "it is very poor netiquette to post private correspondence in
a public forum." What sort of netiquette is it to post this sort of
message: "Hey buddy! Maybe you're in need of a good dick up your ass!"?
You also say: "It is also a copyright infringement to do so without my
permission. Don't do it again." As a matter of fact, I am going to do it
again, right now. If you think I have committed a copyright infringement,
why don't you sue me? It's very easy. All you have to do is look in the
GayYellow Pages. That's a homo service for those homos who want to
discriminate against hets. Or, phone the Gay Switchboard in New York City,
and ask them to refer you to a homo lawyer. I'm not saying that you are a
homo. What I am saying is that a homo lawyer would love to sue me, and for
that reason would charge you less than a het lawyer. After you find your
homo lawyer, serve me with papers at my Post Office Box Address, which is:
Fred Cherry/Chairman/Johns & Call Girls United Against Repression/P.O. Box
021021/Brooklyn, NY 11202-1021.
By the way, Rod Swift, the homonazi, has twice promised to sue me for libel
and he never followed through. Anyway, here is your private correspondence:
-----------------------------------snip-------------------------------
>From ac...@avery.med.virginia.edu Thu Nov 30 21:31:47 1995
Return-Path: ac...@avery.med.virginia.edu
Received: from virginia.edu (uvaarpa.Virginia.EDU [128.143.2.7])
by mail.usa.net (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id VAA02157
for <jo...@usa.net>; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 21:31:45 -0700
Reply-To: ac...@avery.med.virginia.edu
Received: from avery.med.virginia.edu by uvaarpa.virginia.edu id aa13589;
30 Nov 95 23:33 EST
Received: (from acs6j@localhost) by avery.med.Virginia.EDU
(8.7.1/8.6.6) id XAA63671 for jo...@usa.net; Thu, 30 Nov 1995 23:33:34 -0500
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 23:33:34 -0500
From: NightSerf <ac...@avery.med.virginia.edu>
Messag-Id: <1995120104...@avery.med.Virginia.EDU>
To: jo...@usa.net
Subject: Re: Pedophilia & Pederasty Defined........
Newsgroups: alt.sex.bestiality,alt.censorship,alt.homosexual,
alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.sex,alt.sex.services,
news.admin.net-abuse.misc,soc.men,soc.women,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,
uva.want-ads,alt.mens-rights,soc
Organization: uva
Status: RO
X-Status: A
In article <john1.817700807@earth> you write:
>
> In Message-ID: <49b1rr$h...@nntp208.reach.com>
> Newsgroups: alt.homosexual,alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.sex,
> alt.sex.services,alt.christnet
> Subject: Re: Pedophilia & Pederasty Defined........
> Date: 27 Nov 1995 00:47:55 GMT
> jpet...@counsel.com wrote:
>
> >CHerry:
> >
> >you get hate mail because you never are coherent, never stay on point,
> >constantly go off on paranoid tangents and generally are a pain in the
> >ass. The U of Va post was because you started posting bull on their
> >newsgroup (uva.general) as you did with this post and were asked to stop
> >which you ignored.
>
> You can't get away with those type of lies with me. I have a copy of all
> the relevant messages. THIS is the message BigBalls responded to. It was
> NOT crossposted to uva.general, as anyone can see.
>
> --------------------------------snip---------------------------------
>
> From: jo...@kalypso.cybercom.net (Fred Cherry)
> Newsgroups: alt.sex.bestiality,alt.censorship,alt.homosexual,
> alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.sex,alt.sex.services,alt.sex.brothels,
> soc.men,soc.women,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.mens-rights,ne.motss,
> soc.motss,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.african.american,
> alt.current-events.net-abuse,comp.org.eff.talk,soc.singles,talk.rumors,
> alt.christnet.bible,alt.christnet,alt.christnet.sex,
> alt.christnet.second-coming.real-soon-now,alt.atheism
> Subject: Re: SO WHAT IS HOMOPHOBIA ??
> Date: 3 Nov 1995 04:56:54 -0500
> Organization: Johns & Call Girls United Against Repression
> Lines: 30
> Distribution: inet
> Message-ID: <john1.8...@cybercom.net>
> References: <46mf0r$4...@news.netvision.net.il>
> <46tum8$j...@news.netvision.net.il>
> <Pine.SOL.3.91.951028...@argon.GAS.UUG.Arizona.EDU>
> NNTP-Posting-Host: kalypso.cybercom.net
>
> In Message-ID:
> <Pine.SOL.3.91.951028...@argon.GAS.UUG.Arizona.EDU>
> Newsgroups: uk.religion.jewish,uk.gay-lesbian-bi,
> sci.psychology.psychotherapy,israel.lists.il-board,israel.israeline,
> alt.society.conservatism,alt.sex.homosexual,alt.politics.usa.republican,
> alt.politics.homosexual,alt.journalism.freelance,alt.journalism,
> alt.homosexual,alt.christnet,alt.activism
> Subject: Re: SO WHAT IS HOMOPHOBIA ??
> Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 15:41:59 -0700
> The Thing <c...@GAS.UUG.Arizona.EDU> wrote:
>
> >Kev,
> >
> >None of the newsgroups this is crosposted to are designed for ads- which
> >is EXCATLY what this is. Sell your wares elsewhere. Until you have
> >something to say without trying to promote yourself and your homophobic
> >friends' books, don't post it here.
>
> The North American Man/Boy Love Association, a very powerful organization
> of homosexual child-molesters, has been posting ads for years on newsgroups
> which are not designed for ads, and I have yet to see any homosexual object
> to their posting on that basis. Roy Radow, the chief spokesman for that
> organization posts his propaganda all over the Internet. Every posting of
> his ends with an ad offering the Bulletin of that organization for sale.
> So, why aren't you complaining about THAT?
>
> One more example of homosexual double standards.
>
> *************************************************************************
>
> Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves. - Lincoln
>
> jo...@cybercom.net
>
> ----------------------------------snip---------------------------------
>
> Furthermore, I was NOT asked to stop by the powers-that-be at the
> University of Virginia. Here is a message I received.
>
> -----------------------------snip--------------------------------------
>
> From kd...@weyl.math.virginia.eduMon Nov 27 14:05:03 1995
> Date: Sun, 12 Nov 1995 08:49:56 -0500
> From: "Kirk D. Hilliard" <kd...@weyl.math.virginia.edu>
> To: jo...@kalypso.cybercom.net
> Subject: BigBalls <b...@scrotum.com> writes:
>
> > From jo...@kalypso.cybercom.net Sun Nov 12 08:35:31 EST 1995
> >
> > BigBalls <b...@scrotum.com> writes:
> >
> > >Hey buddy! Maybe you're in need of a good dick up your ass!
> >
> > AN OPEN LETTER TO THE PEOPLE AT THE UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA
> >
> > How do you people tolerate creeps like this at your institution? I KNOW
> > that this message came from your institution by examining the header of
> > the Usenet message. Look for yourself. Examine the path. Here it is:
> >
>
> At first I am concerned.
>
> [snip]
> >
> > Do you people allow homos to threaten people with homosexual rape at your
> ^^^^^
> > institution? Isn't it true that the University of Virginia was founded by
> > Thomas Jefferson? Do you people have any idea of Jefferson's opinion of
> > homos? If you don't, look it up!!
> ^^^^^
> >
> > Let me explain to you what is behind this.
> [chop]
>
> I don't care what's behind it. I am no longer concerned, since I
> realize that this is just two cretins flaming each other. I'll just
> let them go at it.
>
> Kirk Hilliard
> kd...@virginia.edu
>
> -------------------------------snip---------------------------------
>
> I'll just have to continue to post messages to the University of Virginia
> groups so that the people there can decide for themselves just who is a
> cretin.
>
> >You may be the queen of spam but you really are a pathetic little loser
> >who blames all of his inadequacies on others. Your repeated assertions
> >about NAMBLA and that nasty little f*ck who is their spokespimp are untrue
> >as no one supports them. Give it a rest and go play in the traffic.
>
> All the name-calling in the world isn't going to change the facts. The
> facts are that there are plenty of people in soc.motss who support NAMBLA
> when Radow, the chief spokesman for NAMBLA, posts his propaganda to
> soc.motss; and the fact that the FAQ of soc.motss tells people how to get
> in touch with NAMBLA, and how to get in touch with Radow.
>
> *************************************************************************
>
> Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves. - Lincoln
>
> jo...@usa.net
>
Why on earth is this posted in uva.want-ads? We have one and
only one group at uva where this even approaches acceptability
and that is uva.chat. But even that is suposed to be open *only* to
the UVA community. I have asked our usenet administrator to
look into this and you will probably be hearing from her.
--
andy ac...@virginia.edu
--------------------------------------snip------------------------------
You say: "I have asked our usenet administrator to look into this and you
will probably be hearing from her."
Well, that was ten days ago, and I haven't heard a thing from her. Does she
approve of messages such as: "Hey buddy! Maybe you're in need of a good
dick up your ass!" being posted from the University of Virginia?
*************************************************************************
Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves. - Lincoln
--------------------------------------------------------------------
> > In all of this all of the usenet people insist that the only offender
> > here is myself. Threats of rape and murder aren't considered abuse,
> We're not cops: take copies of posts that you think are illegal to your
> local law enforcement officials and seek their advice. They have
> remediest that are far stricter than any Usenet canceller could employ.
> If the bad guys are breaking the law, they get to go to jail. Neat, huh?
This posting that I object to emanated from the illustrious University of
Virginia. Do you really expect the local authorities there to do something
when an outsider, and a New Yorker to boot, complains about a crime? Wake
up, idiot.
> This
> > has got to stop. If usenet itself doesn't resolve this problem, then I
> > will go to conservative members of congress and get them to do
> > something about this.
>
> Been there, done that. Don't you remember the CDA?
Do I remember the CDA? DO I REMEMBER THE CDA!!
How does THIS grab you?
------------------------------------------------------------------
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
FRED CHERRY,
Plaintiff,
v. 96 Civ. 2498
JANET RENO, in her official capacity as
Attorney General of the United States,
Defendant.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
DESIGNATION OF JUDGES
---------------------
Upon the request of the Honorable Denise Cote, United
States District Judge for the Southern District of New York, to
convene a statutory three-judge District Court in the captioned
matter pursuant to 28 U.S.C. 2284 and Section 561 of the Tele-
communications Competition of Deregulation Act of 1995, Pub. L. No.
104-104 (signed Feb. 8, 1996), I hereby designate the Honorable Jose
A. Cabranes, United States Circuit Judge, and the Honorable Leonard
B. Sand, United States District Judge, to serve with Judge Cote as
members of the three-judge court.
This order shall be filed in the captioned matter in the
United States District Court for the Southern District of New York.
[signature here]
---------------------------------
Jon O. Newman, Chief Judge
United States court of Appeals
for the Second Circuit
New York, New York
April 30, 1996
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The basis of my suit was that Rod Swift, a homonazi from Australia, was
using even more "patently offensive" language in debating me than bigballs
was using. Since Swift was an Australian citizen posting from Australia, he
was immune from the CDA. I sued for the right to get right down into the
sewer with him. That is, to quote him and use the same type of language as
he was using.
By the way, I acted as my own attorney. You have to remember that I am The
Greatest Amateur Lawyer Since Caryl Chessman (but not the best. Vigdor
Schreibman is the best).
Now I realize I was on the wrong side. What kind of freedom of speech do we
have on the Internet when NAMBLA and the friends and supporters of NAMBLA
can silence the opposition?
> > Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves. - Lincoln
>
> Exactly, yet you are seeking to deny freedom for others.
All I want is the right to debate the NAMBLA defenders and supporters. I'm
not trying to censor them. They are trying to censor me.
*************************************************************************
Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves. - Lincoln
jo...@shore.net (Fred Cherry)
gregory byshenk
Fred Cherry <jo...@shore.net> wrote:
> I am NOT spamming. Gregory Byshenk is the authority on spamming. He posts a
> FAQ on spamming. He says that crossposting is NOT spamming.
In the first place, I am not "the" authority on spamming. While
I maintain a FAQ list, it is "authoritative" only in the sense
that it summarizes the general opinons on spam.
In the second place, crossposting may well be spamming. It is
for all practical purposes impossible for a single crossposted
article to be cancellable spam (ie: BI > 20), but ECP can be
spam.
Finally, I have no idea of whether or not some or any of your
posts were spammed or cancelled. I suspect that the same is
true of the vast number of readers of this newsgroup, so if
you desire assistance, you might point said readers in the
direction of the cancelled posts and the cancel messages.
> I am not going to point you in the direction of his post, [...]
And I _will_ provide a pointer (check the .sig below).
[big snip]
--
+ gregory byshenk - gbys...@tezcat.com - gbys...@prairienet.org +
== Help take a byte out of spam: <http://www.cauce.org> ==
=> Now up: "Help! I've Been Spammed! - A guide for the beginner."
URL: <http://www.tezcat.com/~gbyshenk/ive.been.spammed.html>
brian moore
In article <68cb9r$o...@shell2.shore.net>,
Fred Cherry <jo...@shore.net> writes:
> I am NOT spamming. Gregory Byshenk is the authority on spamming. He posts
> a FAQ on spamming. He says that crossposting is NOT spamming.
Excessive Crossposting IS spamming.
>> That's bad. Spam is a no-no. Got some message ID's?
>
> That material has long since expired.
Then what is the point of bringing it up? Sort of silly to cancel an
expired article, no?
> Anyway, why do I have to report to you people.
You don't. You chose to post here.
> You people can find my posts and cancel them within one hour.
Actually, I've never heard of you until you posted here.
> Why can't you do the same with other people's posts?
I do. I generated 40k some cancels yesterday, but Cosmo beat me on
injection (on my own server!) to well over half. That represented
the Usenet posts of 4 people. Sorry, neither you nor your great
flame war was in them.
> Now, here is an example of someone who ADMITS to enlarging
> the newsgroups header. Why wasn't HE canceled? It couldn't have been
> because he was attacking me, could it? Oh, no. Impossible, you say.
Impossible: you really think spam cancellers have the time to READ each of
the 150k or so pieces of spam on a typical day or read every article
looking for someone they disagree with to cancel?
> From: andy beckwith <beck...@bayou.uh.edu>
Thud, not ANDREW Beckwith? Oh, probably not.
> Newsgroups: uva.want-ads,talk.religion.misc,talk.christianity,
> talk.atheism,talk.abortion,soc.women,soc.singles,soc.motss,soc.men,
> soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.israel,
> soc.culture.african.american,rec.sport.pro-wrestling,
> news.admin.censorship,alt.skinheads,alt.satanism,
> alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.homosexuality,
> alt.politics.equality,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.clinton,
> alt.personals.bi,alt.parents-teens,alt.pagan,alt.nuke.the.USA,
> alt.neo-tech,alt.misc,alt.mindcontrol,alt.mens-rights,alt.meditation,
> alt.kill.the.whales,alt.individualism,alt.homosexual,alt.freaks,
> alt.flame,alt.feminism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.noam-chomsky,
> alt.fan.cock-sucking,alt.evil,alt.discrimination,alt.current-events.usa,
> alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,alt.culture.usenet,
> alt.culture.internet,alt.culture.hawaii,alt.christnet,alt.censorship,
> alt.blasphemy,alt.atheism,alt.apocalypse,alt.anarchism,alt.america,
> alt.activism,alt.usenet.kooks
Nope, that article would never have been written to my disk, never even
logged. Too many newsgroups.
>> Perhaps because you're spamming? Didn't your mother teach you that two
>> wrongs don't make a right?
>
> First of all, YOU, not being content with insulting me, stoop to insulting
> my mother, OK, if that's the way you want to argue, then I'm going to
> teach YOU a lesson. Why didn't YOUR mother teach you not to insult other
> people's mothers? Was it perhaps that she was an alcoholic? Or was she
> a drug addict?
It's not an insult to your mother that you are incapable of learning.
> The manner in which you put quotes around the word "defense", clearly
> shows whose side YOU are on.
I'm not on any side. Why do you think any one gives a rat's behind about
you? Hint: you're just-another-poster-in-a-flamewar. Deal with it.
The vast majority of Usenet doesn't know who you are or CARE. You're
not as important as you think: can the persecution bull.
> Here is another example of something by Dunphy. No matter what the
> subject of the thread, Dunphy always manages to put his two cents worth
> of attacks against me into the thread.
And you always post back? Learn to use a kill-file and get on with it.
> No, idiot, it's called crossposting. When I do it, you say it's bad. When
> Lowenstein does it, you approve of it.
I have no idea who Lowenstein is, nor do I care. Really, get a grip, dude:
your little flame war has become too much a part of your life. Why not
go talk a long walk? How many YEARS have you been playing this "they
are all out to get me" crap?
> Well, you have already indicated which side you are on. That's why you
> think I'm leaving parts of this out.
Fred, Fred, Fred: this will be my last post to you, as you are about
to go into the kill file: I shall never again see a post from you.
Kill files are a wonderful tool: learn to use them.
I will once again tell you that your little flame war is pointless and
stupid: you are letting other people yank your chain, or perhaps more
precisely: you are letting them drag you around by the nuts.
Anytime they want to see you in pain, they can, and they just laugh off
your name calling. Perhaps you should try a new strategy in dealing
with them: don't let them get to you. Ignore them, as I shall henceforth
be ignoring you.
> I'll tell you what I'm gonna do. I am posting something from some of the
> powers-that-be at the illustrious University of Virginia. Why don't you
> E-Mail one of those "gentlemen" and ask him if he wants to debate the
> issue right here and now.
Because, Fred, I really don't care 'bout you. You have an offensive
attitude that begins with "Everyone who dislikes me is a Homosexual Nazi
that Rapes Little Boys". Is that a way to win friends?
It doesn't work in the real world, it doesn't work online.
Here you go, Fred, I'll make it easier for you. You can quote me on
this:
1) Hitler was too damned liberal.
2) I have pinched guy's butts in bars.
Have fun calling me names: I don't care. See, there is a simple axiom
that you are forgetting: when they call you names, people will decide
whether or not to believe them based on their credibility. You have
done an excellent job in destroying any sort of credibility you have,
so your name calling is meaningless.
>> I don't care what's behind it. I am no longer concerned, since I
>> realize that this is just two cretins flaming each other. I'll just
>> let them go at it.
>>
>> Kirk Hilliard
>> kd...@virginia.edu
Smart man, that Kirk. I see no reason to debate him: he is right.
> This posting that I object to emanated from the illustrious University
> of Virginia. Do you really expect the local authorities there to do
> something when an outsider, and a New Yorker to boot, complains about
> a crime? Wake up, idiot.
Gotta love your way of winning friends. Dale Carnegie should have taken
notes from you.
>> Exactly, yet you are seeking to deny freedom for others.
>
> All I want is the right to debate the NAMBLA defenders and supporters.
> I'm not trying to censor them. They are trying to censor me.
You seem to be talking quite loudly. I'm turning up my stereo and ignoring
you. There's a lesson there for you if you can learn.
Ah, King Crimson: "Talk? It's only talk.... Arguments, Agreements, Fights,
Articulate Announcements. It's only talk. Talk? It's only talk...
Babble, Burble, Badger, Bicker, Bicker, Bicker, Brouhaha, Balderdash,
Ballyhoo.... It's only talk... backtalk."
--
Brian Moore Kill A Spammer For Belew
Sysadmin, C/Perl Hacker
Fred Cherry
brian moore <b...@cmc.net> writes:
>In article <68bodj$7...@shell2.shore.net>,
>Fred Cherry <jo...@shore.net> writes:
>> What an idiot! You can't get anything right, can you?
>Sure, Freddy.
>> It's not Cthulu. It's Cthulhu. Hu Hu Hu Hu. Got it?
>Yawn.
>> I posted something the other day in alt.sex.cthulhu. Unless one of you
>> cancelers has canceled it, it should still be there.
>Wow... I posted in lots of places yesterday.
>> They have an interesting system of canceling in that newsgroup. They
>> demand that you insert "Cthulhu" as a keyword when posting. Otherwise
>> they cancel your message and send you E-Mail explaining their policy. But
>> their cancelation doesn't apply to other newsgroups that the message was
>> crossposted to.
>Good for them. Explain how that works, please, since there is no way to
>cancel from just one group. Either a message exists or it doesn't.
>What an idiot! You can't get anything right, can you?
>--
>Brian Moore Kill A Spammer For Pope John Paul George
Ringo
>Sysadmin, C/Perl Hacker
Well, I made a boo-boo that time. Here's how it happened. I got an E-Mail
message from the people who claim to be in charge of the alt.sex.cthulhu
newsgroup. This E-Mail message said that my post had been canceled. But
it HADN'T been canceled.
Now, why don't you be a man and admit to YOUR mistakes?
*************************************************************************
Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves. - Lincoln
jo...@shore.net (Fred Cherry)
Fred Cherry
In Message-ID: <68cl32$t3n$1...@news.cmc.net>
Newsgroups: news.admin.net-abuse.policy
Subject: Re: Political Censorship by Ken Lucke
Date: 31 Dec 1997 05:27:22 GMT
brian moore <b...@cmc.net> wrote:
> In article <68cb9r$o...@shell2.shore.net>,
> Fred Cherry <jo...@shore.net> writes:
> > I am NOT spamming. Gregory Byshenk is the authority on spamming. He
> > posts a FAQ on spamming. He says that crossposting is NOT spamming.
>
> Excessive Crossposting IS spamming.
That's what YOU say. Here is what Byshenk says:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
From: gbys...@xochi.tezcat.com (gregory m. byshenk)
Newsgroups: news.newusers.questions,news.admin.net-abuse.misc,news.groups
Subject: Help! I've been Spammed! What do I do? FAQ
Supersedes: <5ir3qk$o...@tepe.tezcat.com>
Followup-To: poster
Date: 21 Apr 1997 01:24:07 GMT
------------------------
3.3: Spam on Usenet.
The first thing to do with spam on usenet is to be sure that
it actually _is_ spam. Remember, what makes something spam is
that there are _lots_ of copies. You'd be surprised how many
people will post one, but only one, wildly off-topic article
into one group. Remember, a single post, no matter how wildly
off-topic, is not spam.
If you see a single massively cross-posted article (typical
multi-group trollbait), it probably _isn't_ spam. Such massive
crossposts may be supremely annoying, but a crosspost (even a
massive one) is only a single copy of the article on the news
server, so it isn't the same thing many times.
- You may wish to report even a single massively cross-
posted article to the poster and their ISP, as some people
post such articles without meaning to be abusive, and some
ISPs have policies against such posts.
Be prepared for a nasty response, though. There are people
who enjoy massively crossposted trolls and post them just
to muck things up on Usenet, and there are many ISPs who
see this as sufficiently close to attempting to control
content that they will not get involved.
You can't really consider something spam on usenet unless you
see multiple copies of it, either the same thing posted multiple
times (with different message-ids) in one newsgroup or posted
individually (not crossposted) to multiple newsgroups. In short,
if you don't see more than one copy, you can't say that it's
spam.
---------------------------------------------------------------
> >> Perhaps because you're spamming? Didn't your mother teach you that
> >> two wrongs don't make a right?
>
> > First of all, YOU, not being content with insulting me, stoop to
> > insulting my mother, OK, if that's the way you want to argue, then I'm
> > going to teach YOU a lesson. Why didn't YOUR mother teach you not to
> > insult other people's mothers? Was it perhaps that she was an
> > alcoholic? Or was she a drug addict?
> > It's not an insult to your mother that you are incapable of learning.
That's not what you said. Don't try to weasel out of it, you weasel!
If you had said something like: "Didn't you learn the lesson your mother
taught you......." that would have put the onus on me.
But when you say: "Didn't your mother teach you....." That puts the onus on
her.
Surely any one of average intelligence can see the difference.
Anyway, what does my mother have to do with this discussion? You accuse me
of bring irrelevancies into my arguments. Your remark about my mother is
just about as irrelevant as one can get.
> > Now, here is an example of someone who ADMITS to enlarging
> > the newsgroups header. Why wasn't HE canceled? It couldn't have been
> > because he was attacking me, could it? Oh, no. Impossible, you say.
>
> Impossible: you really think spam cancellers have the time to READ each
> of the 150k or so pieces of spam on a typical day or read every article
> looking for someone they disagree with to cancel?
I think some homo looks for everything I post and then reports to Lucke and
then Lucke cancels my posts.
I see plenty of REAL spam (not velveeta) that no canceler touches. Why is
that?
> > The manner in which you put quotes around the word "defense", clearly
> > shows whose side YOU are on.
>
> I'm not on any side. Why do you think any one gives a rat's behind about
> you? Hint: you're just-another-poster-in-a-flamewar. Deal with it.
> The vast majority of Usenet doesn't know who you are or CARE. You're
> not as important as you think: can the persecution bull.
If I'm not so important, then why do homos start entire threads about me?
Here are some examples: Subject: Fred Cherry, Eater of Feces; Subject; Fred
Cherry, a Hateful Subhuman; Subject: Fred Cherry, Alleged Pedophile.
> I will once again tell you that your little flame war is pointless and
> stupid: you are letting other people yank your chain, or perhaps more
> precisely: you are letting them drag you around by the nuts.
>
> Anytime they want to see you in pain, they can, and they just laugh off
> your name calling. Perhaps you should try a new strategy in dealing
> with them: don't let them get to you. Ignore them, as I shall henceforth
> be ignoring you.
Someone, I forgot who, said: "In order for evil to triumph, all that is
necessary is for good men to do nothing." Well, I refuse to do nothing. I
am not going to let NAMBLA take over all discussion about child-molesting
on Usenet.
> > I'll tell you what I'm gonna do. I am posting something from some of
> > the powers-that-be at the illustrious University of Virginia. Why don't
> > you E-Mail one of those "gentlemen" and ask him if he wants to debate
> > the issue right here and now.
>
> > Because, Fred, I really don't care 'bout you. You have an offensive
> > attitude that begins with "Everyone who dislikes me is a Homosexual
> > Nazi that Rapes Little Boys". Is that a way to win friends?
Go right ahead. Keep making up stuff. I challenge you, or anyone else, to
show where and when I ever said: "Everyone who dislikes me is a Homosexual
Nazi that Rapes Little Boys".
Also, I certainly wouldn't want to be YOUR friend. Here is something that
is one of my most cherished beliefs. This is taken from the United States
Supreme Court case of New York Times v. Sullivan, 376 U.S. 254, 270: "Thus
we consider this case against the background of a profound national
commitment that debate on public issues should be uninhibited, robust and
wide-open, and that it may well include vehement, caustic, and sometimes
unpleasantly sharp attacks."
You, as you have indicated. believe just the opposite.
> >> I don't care what's behind it. I am no longer concerned, since I
> >> realize that this is just two cretins flaming each other. I'll just
> >> let them go at it.
> >>
> >> Kirk Hilliard
> >> kd...@virginia.edu
>
> Smart man, that Kirk. I see no reason to debate him: he is right.
I don't know whether you're a homo or not. But one thing is certainly
clear. You have adopted the homo style of argument. You just want to
sidestep any discussion and instead engage in ad hominem attacks.
Here is something that was posted yesterday. This person has the same style
of argument as you do. That is; he doesn't want to argue the issues. He
just wants to engage in ad hominem attacks.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
>From alt.censorship Sun Jan 4 05:39:32 1998
From: sa...@berlin.snafu.de (Erhard Sanio)
Newsgroups: uva.want-ads,soc.singles,soc.motss,soc.culture.jewish,
soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.british,soc.bi,
israel.lists.il-talk,alt.support.crossposting,alt.sex,alt.revisionism,
alt.religion.gay-les-bi-tran,alt.religion.christian,
alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.parents-teens,alt.misc,
alt.journalism.gay-press,alt.individualism,alt.homosexual,
alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.jesus-christ,alt.christnet.evangelical,
alt.christnet.christianlife,alt.christnet,alt.censorship,alt.abortion
Subject: Re: The Royal Bitch
Followup-To: alt.flame
Date: 1 Jan 1998 21:23:50 GMT
Organization: Interactive Networx GmbH - Berlin/Germany
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <68h1h6$dj0$1...@unlisys.unlisys.net>
References: <883332293...@dejanews.com>
<68gncv$f...@shell2.shore.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: berlin.snafu.de
Status: RO
X-Status:
In article <68gncv$f...@shell2.shore.net>, Fred Cherry <jo...@shore.net>
wrote:
[..]
Dear Sir,
After having read your post I must admit that you are among the
most stupid shitheads molesting Usenet audience I had the mishap
to read for a long time. If you are trying to prove that there
are hardly limits of bad taste, idiocy, and ignorance you are not
able to transgress, I feel compelled to state that you have been
successful in convincing me.
I hereby like to express my conviction that you would do yourself and
the rest of the world a big favour if you would just eat shit and die.
best regards, es
----------------------------------------------------------------------
gregory byshenk
Fred Cherry <jo...@shore.net> wrote:
> That's what YOU say. Here is what Byshenk says:
Care to respond to the post in which _I_ point out that you
are wrong (since you seem to be placing some great value on
my words)?
[gigantic snip -- don't your fingers get tired?]
Fred Cherry
<68cb9r$o...@shell2.shore.net> <68cl32$t3n$1...@news.cmc.net>
<68oda9$b...@shell2.shore.net> <1998010414...@gbyshenk.tezcat.com>
X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.1 (NOV)
gregory byshenk <gbys...@tezcat.com> writes:
>Fred Cherry <jo...@shore.net> wrote:
>> That's what YOU say. Here is what Byshenk says:
>Care to respond to the post in which _I_ point out that you
>are wrong (since you seem to be placing some great value on
>my words)?
It appears that there is more than one Gregory Byshenk on Usenet, just as
there is more than one Kibo. Now, here is what the original Gregory Byshenk
posted in his FAQ on spamming. Clearly this contradicts what YOU, the
alternate Gregory Byshenk, have to say on the subject of spamming.
---------------------------------------------------------------
From: gbys...@xochi.tezcat.com (gregory m. byshenk)
Newsgroups: news.newusers.questions,news.admin.net-abuse.misc,
news.groups
Subject: Help! I've been Spammed! What do I do? FAQ
Supersedes: <5ir3qk$o...@tepe.tezcat.com>
Followup-To: poster
Date: 21 Apr 1997 01:24:07 GMT
[irrelevant material omitted]
--------------------------------------------------------------------
jo...@shore.net (Fred Cherry)
Will Rose
brian moore (b...@cmc.net) wrote:
: In article <68aine$q9f$1...@news.utdallas.edu>,
: gaa...@utdallas.edu writes:
: >: --
: >: Sysadmin, C/Perl Hacker
: >
: > I feel the "Kill a Spammer for Jesus" is in somewhat poor taste.
: Usenet is in 'somewhat poor taste'.
: > People
: > have a right to their religious opinions or lack thereof in this country
: > (the US).
: Absolutely... so?
: > Please, let's not make such statements which could be
: > interpreted as even a mild attack on those of the Christian faith or any
: > other faith (including atheists, agnostics, etc.).
Why shouldn't I attack the Christian faith? Is it especially fragile?
It's being going for ~2000 years, and I for one don't think it's going
to fade away any time soon.
Tim Skirvin
Folks, this thread is getting ridiculously off-topic...
- Tim Skirvin (tski...@uiuc.edu)
--
<a href="http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin">Skirv's Homepage</a><*>
<a href="http://www.killfile.org/dungeon/">The Killfile Dungeon</a>
gregory byshenk
Fred Cherry <jo...@shore.net> wrote:
> It appears that there is more than one Gregory Byshenk on Usenet, just as
> there is more than one Kibo. Now, here is what the original Gregory Byshenk
> posted in his FAQ on spamming. Clearly this contradicts what YOU, the
> alternate Gregory Byshenk, have to say on the subject of spamming.
Possible, but unlikely (that there is more than one GB), given that,
to my knowledge, there is but one such person on the planet. Be
that as it may, I'll try one more time before I just add you to the
killfile...
Merely reposting the same text over and over is not "responding"
in any meaningful way. I am asking for a meaningful response.
That is, an explanation of what you think the text means, how you
think it applies, or something along that line.
I am uninterested in attempting "discussion" with a tape recorder.
[long quote snipped -- we've all seen it before]
[BTW: it looks like your References: are broken]
Fred Cherry
gregory byshenk <gbys...@tezcat.com> writes:
> Fred Cherry <jo...@shore.net> wrote:
>> It appears that there is more than one Gregory Byshenk on Usenet, just
>> as there is more than one Kibo. Now, here is what the original
>> Gregory Byshenk posted in his FAQ on spamming. Clearly this contradicts
>> what YOU, the alternate Gregory Byshenk, have to say on the subject of
>> spamming.
> Possible, but unlikely (that there is more than one GB), given that,to
> my knowledge, there is but one such person on the planet. Be that as it
> may, I'll try one more time before I just add you to the killfile...
> Merely reposting the same text over and over is not "responding" in any
> meaningful way. I am asking for a meaningful response. That is, an
> explanation of what you think the text means, how you think it applies,
> or something along that line.
The meaning of the text is obvious. That's the only explanation I can give
you. I'll just have to let the other readers decide for themselves the
question of whether or not you are contradicting yourself.
There is a famous quote by the poet Walt Whitman. I forgot exactly how it
goes. But the gist of the quote is: "I contradict myself? So what?"
> I am uninterested in attempting "discussion" with a tape recorder.
What is that supposed to mean? I have NOT quoted your text previously.
> [long quote snipped -- we've all seen it before] [BTW: it looks like
> your References: are broken]
It it true that my references are broken. That's my fault. Skirvin is such
a fussbudget about the length of lines in a post. If the lines in a post
are too long, Skirvin rejects the post and tells the poster to reformat
the post. I got confused and reformatted the "References" line in the
header.
jo...@world.std.com (Fred Cherry)
gregory byshenk
Fred Cherry <jo...@world.std.com> wrote:
> gregory byshenk <gbys...@tezcat.com> writes:
> > Merely reposting the same text over and over is not "responding" in any
> > meaningful way. I am asking for a meaningful response. That is, an
> > explanation of what you think the text means, how you think it applies,
> > or something along that line.
> The meaning of the text is obvious. That's the only explanation I can give
> you. I'll just have to let the other readers decide for themselves the
> question of whether or not you are contradicting yourself.
While I strive to be clear, I can only conclude that the meaning
is not obvious, as a careless reader can easily misunderstand.
I'm not planning on carrying this further, but (should you care
about what is said) you might pay more attention to issues such
as what can be told by looking at a single post, and such words
as "not _necessarily_".
> > I am uninterested in attempting "discussion" with a tape recorder.
> What is that supposed to mean? I have NOT quoted your text previously.
After quoting the text of my FAQ at considerable length more
than once...
*plonk*
Tim Skirvin
Fred Cherry <jo...@world.std.com> writes:
>If the lines in a post are too long, Skirvin rejects the post and tells
>the poster to reformat the post.
Well, actually, that's the modbot.