Using Mozilla pictures
Marcus Fellinger
I would like to use two pictures from "The Mozilla Museum"
(http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/mozilla/index.html) on my homepage, and
would like to know if it's legal to do so.
What about creating my own picture of Mozilla and putting it on a
T-Shirt?
Marcus Fellinger (MFell...@compuserve.com)
PS: How do I get Netscape logo products in Austria?
Daniel Veditz
Marcus Fellinger wrote:
>
> I would like to use two pictures from "The Mozilla Museum"
> (http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/mozilla/index.html) on my homepage, and
> would like to know if it's legal to do so.
>
> What about creating my own picture of Mozilla and putting it on a
> T-Shirt?
Those are both good questions. I think the technical answer is "no",
it's not legal unless you get permission from Netscape lawyers in
writing (not web posts from Netscape employees who don't have the
authority to grant that kind of thing).
The source code licenses do not grant any rights to use the "Mozilla"
image which is copyrighted by Netscape. Yet it's obviously a reasonable
thing for developers to want to do.
I've forwarded your question to mozilla.org and the Netscape lawyers.
Don't expect a quick answer, but when there is one it'll be posted back
here.
-Dan Veditz
Marcus Fellinger
Hello Dan,
Thanks for your help. For the time being, I will just publish my homepage
without these pictures, and maybe put an appropriate legal notice on it.
In article <35631F21...@netscape.com>, Daniel Veditz wrote:
> From: Daniel Veditz <dve...@netscape.com>
> Newsgroups: netscape.public.mozilla.license
> Subject: Re: Using Mozilla pictures
> Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 11:21:21 -0700
Rog
Well, the NPL license doesn't grant any rights over the word Mozilla,
nor it does the ULP, yet a couple of days ago "from a web post from a
Netscape employee" was suggested that international versions of
Communicator 4.05 (based on the ULP license, not the NPL) *should* be
named after Mozilla. If we are to put together a product that we have to
name "Mozilla", not being able to use the image representing this funny
lizard seems totally contradictory, and it's not making it easy on
non-Netscape people releasing modified versions of the browser.
Basically, Netscape is saying "when all you do is localize the browser,
you should name it Mozilla, but if you use images of Mozilla, that's
ilegal". It may make sense from some angle, but in practice, it isn't
helping. I say if you really want to say "FREE THE LIZARD!", then you
should do so ;-)
Anyways, so for now it's illegal to use existing Mozilla pics. How about
designing/drawing my own pics of Mozilla? Can I publish those? If the
answer is no, I let you know I am going to use them anyway - with
appropriate notes, but I'm going to use them. Sorry...
-Rog
Jamie Zawinski
Rog wrote:
>
> Basically, Netscape is saying "when all you do is localize the browser,
> you should name it Mozilla, but if you use images of Mozilla, that's
> ilegal".
No, Netscape is saying no such thing.
Netscape has said "you may use the word Mozilla to describe things
based on the Mozilla source code."
Netscape has said nothing about the particular images of Mozilla
(or about images of Mozilla in general.) Yes, Netscape should say
something one way or another, and that has not yet happened.
Copyright law and trademark law are different.
Just because anyone can use the word "television" doesn't mean that
J. Random Artist has no rights to particular drawings he has done of
a television.
I think you're getting bent out of shape over nothing. It's not like
you're going to be shipping end-user products based on the Mozilla code
in the next couple of months, anyway -- it's not done yet. There's
plenty of time to work this out.
--
Jamie Zawinski http://people.netscape.com/jwz/ about:jwz
Daniel Veditz
Rog wrote:
>
> If we are to put together a product that we have to
> name "Mozilla", not being able to use the image representing this funny
The law often doesn't make sense. No one has said "THOU SHALT NOT USE
THE MOZILLA IMAGE". But legally "Netscape" owns the copyright in that
image so only "Netscape" can legally grant the use of it. There is no
"Netscape" here, only employees who don't have that authority.
Obviously it makes a lot of sense to let developers use that image, and
I'm sure most of us humans here at Netscape and mozilla.org don't mind
at all. I can't think of any reason we wouldn't grant that, we just
didn't think about it until Marcus asked. Now the lawyers have to do
their thing and draw up a license to allow use of the image, and that
takes a little time (especially since it wasn't scheduled).
> Anyways, so for now it's illegal to use existing Mozilla pics. How about
> designing/drawing my own pics of Mozilla? Can I publish those? If the
> answer is no, I let you know I am going to use them anyway - with
> appropriate notes, but I'm going to use them. Sorry...
Legally, no -- you cannot use the Mozilla character even in your own
drawings, just as you can't legally publish a story you wrote about Kirk
and Spock without Paramount's permission.
But if you're not making money off the images (e.g. selling T-shirts
that compete with our on-line store) and you credit Netscape's copyright
(so there's no threat of us losing it) I don't see why anyone would
mind. Not that I'm granting permission (I can't).
-Dan Veditz
Rog
Jamie Zawinski wrote:
>
> Netscape has said "you may use the word Mozilla to describe things
> based on the Mozilla source code."
>
> Netscape has said nothing about the particular images of Mozilla
> (or about images of Mozilla in general.) Yes, Netscape should say
> something one way or another, and that has not yet happened.
>
> Copyright law and trademark law are different.
>
> Just because anyone can use the word "television" doesn't mean that
> J. Random Artist has no rights to particular drawings he has done of
> a television.
>
> I think you're getting bent out of shape over nothing. It's not like
> you're going to be shipping end-user products based on the Mozilla code
> in the next couple of months, anyway -- it's not done yet. There's
> plenty of time to work this out.
Point well taken. I apologize if I sounded a bit out of tone, I honestly
was simply trying to get my point across.
If I raised this as if it was a *major* concern, is because it is a
concern to me. Not major, but it does affect work I've already spent
many hours in (and as you say, it's an issue that should be addressed
sooner or later).
As I mentioned to you on a previous e-mail, our executable version in
Spanish has got a lot of attention from the media in Spain, we've got a
few thousands downloads of the current executables in a couple of weeks,
and at the moment, the Web pages (which are getting a nice rate of
traffic) have Mozilla images. In addition to that, I and my wife have
spent a number of evenings creating new pics of Mozilla for the web
pages (not published yet), splash screens, etc... With all this work
done (I admit it's my fault for not asking first once I noticed the
licenses were not clear w.r.t. this), anyone would try to "rush" an
answer from Netscape.
Anyway, as I said, I understand what you said. Now I can only hope that
Netscape's legal dept. does say something soon, one way or another.
Thanks,
-Rog