a new group???
ron vaughn
this is a second draft of this letter. i first wrote it on jan. 3, right
after i got back from christmas vacation. i was going to post it to
net.flame, but then i though i'd let it cool for a while, and post it
to net.singles, where it really belongs. i toned it down and took out all
the mean(funny) stuff. i'm not trying to be sarcastic or humorous, i think
this news group at times has a serious problem, and i have a serious
proposition as a solution.
/* we now resume the old letter in progress (funny intro deleted)... */
...
what brought this letter on?? i just got back from my christmas vacataion,
and was catching up on notes from dec. 19 to jan 2, and i happend to notice
in net.singles on my machine there were 42 articles that did NOT refer to
JS, and 34 that were either his, or a follow up to his. that is nearly
half of the notes in the topic!! were they all about new and interesting
things??? of course not. they were all the basic "oh, i'm such a loser, such
a poor christian, i'm not as good a person as christ, i can't find an SO,
i had a terrible childhood, i had a terrible teenage-hood, i'm having a
terrible adult-hood, i can't find myself, i lied and acted to all the people
i met when i toured america, i dislike most of the human race, i'm the problem,
i'm scum"
jeff, it was ok the first time. it was ok, the second time. i didn't mind
the third, but about the 218th time really started to bother me (and
quite a few others)
my god jeff, do you REALLY deserve 32 of 76 articles to be by/about you? all
the same dribble we've been watching for months?? are your problems that
incredibly important we ALL have to hear you beg for and then reject the same
advice every couple of months? do you know what it's like to sit down and
read (i read notes off line) 32 letters about your problems in less than
45 minutes?? you start to see the big picture developing. you put up these
"oh poor me letters", you get the "your not so bad, jeff", and then you say
"oh, but i am!" and they say "no, your not", and then you....
we ALL have problems jeff. i have a wonderful girlfriend, but she happens
to be 800 miles away from me (for the next 1.5 years). long dist. relationships
are very hard on a person. but i'm not going to come on the net once a month
and TELL everyone in america, just so they can say "chin up, old boy, it's only
540 more days!!" (aaaaaagh!)
you happen to have more problems than any eight people i know. i'm sorry
about that. you come across as a very screwed up person. ahhh, jeff, you
big lug. i *do* feel sorry for you. i almost feel guilty about writing
a letter like this, but i love the fan mail!! B-) just kidding.
here's the jist of all of this: jeff, are you REALLY getting anything out
of reading this group? better yet, is the group getting anything out of
your participation?? it's the SAME OLD STUFF, time after time. it's as if
you wait for new people to get on the net so they can fall for your "i'm not
a perfect human" lines, and send net.sympathy mail. those of us who have been
on the net for a while are getting a little fed up with all of this.
look at the traffic you generate. and have i ever ONCE seen you say "wow!
thanks for the advice, i think i'll try it your way" or "gee, i never looked
at it that way, maybe i'll give your thought a shot". NEVER. it's always
"...but i'm not just a bad SO, i'm a worthless human, so your advice doesn't
apply to me" and that kind of junk.
i went and looked at all the net.singles articles on the machine i'm on,
and when i looked at a few months worth, you only had about 1/5 or so of
the articles devoted to your "problems". still, i think that is enough to
bring out a net.singles.js. you think i'm kidding?? at times you have
a MUCH larger proportion of the net.singles traffic than say net.music.classic
has compared to net.music, yet classic has it's own group. this stuff is
getting OLD jeff. very old! it's dull. it's repititious.
have you ever HONESTLY (i'm very serious) thought about NOT wasting so
much time on the net, and work on all of your "problems" instead?
i'm not saying you shouldn't have the right to use this group, but you
are HURTING the group more than anything. try to be a christianoid and
"think of others" and all that stuff.
if enough people think there should be a net.singles.js, drop me a line, and
i'll post something to net.news-groups or whatever it's called.
i CAN'T use the 'n' key, i read notes off line!!!!!
ron vaughn ...!ihnp4!ihdev!rjv
ps: once again i'll come of looking like the big bad guy, and once again
i'll probably be speaking for the silent majority who are being polite
by not saying anything, but 'n'-keying this group away.
pps: i took this perfect letter and went back and added all the grammar and
spelling mistakes in memory of mrs. perkins, my 5th grade english teacher.
Sunny Kirsten
> here's the jist of all of this: jeff, are you REALLY getting anything out
> of reading this group? better yet, is the group getting anything out of
> your participation?? it's the SAME OLD STUFF, time after time. it's as if
> you wait for new people to get on the net so they can fall for your "i'm not
> a perfect human" lines, and send net.sympathy mail. those of us who have been
> on the net for a while are getting a little fed up with all of this.
Hey, it's a simple case of I'm not OK, You're OK, mixed with a little
Schlemeil and Ain't It Awful. The amazing thing is that so many are
willing to play these "games people play" with Jeff. Jeff doesn't want
to cure his problems, he finds the safety of the games comforting.
Some of us have far deeper problems than Jeffs, but are trying NOT to
play games around them, but instead to learn and grow beyond both the
games and the problems.
I offer an alternative... for those who will try to be brutally honest,
and avoid games and niceties as much as possible. I AM interested in
growth, and lately I seem to have a problem with getting labelled as a
"man hater", because I've continually chosen as my subject, to confront
and attack the foibles of the "dark side" of men. It's just that that's
what's been on my mind lately. How about we turn it around and attack
the dark side of Sunny? or women? I mean, I'm getting bored with Jeff,
and big breasts, and the defensive reactions of men who project themselves
into my critiques of the dark side of men. Hey, I'm seriously interested
in exploring the games people play, especially the games women play, known
as "femininity", and the games men play, known as "masculinity". Hey, we
all know what genitals are, that's how you tell someone's sex. But what
about casting aside ALL the games, including those of gender role? I think
it's not enough to cast aside the games like "Ain't it Awful" and all the
others from "Games People Play", but to also cast aside the games we all
assume from age 18 months when we decide what gender we are.
I mean, it certainly has worked for men to change the oil in the car
because they have penises, and women to cook because they have vaginas,
but surely we can question how those asignments are made, and whether they
have to be. There is no REASON why women can't change the oil in their
cars, or men can't cook, only AGREEMENT on SOCIAL ROLES which are "NORMAL".
Certainly there is reason to be able to tell the boys from the girls in a
world where the main problem is having enough hands to go around, but now
that the world is grossly overpopulated, I'd like to believe that we don't
have to nuke it back to the stone age to solve that problem, that birth
control can be intelligently applied (since the only alternative is
death control), and that we no longer have such reason to insure millions
of babies. We can pause in our being fruitful and multiplying, to simply
*enjoy* sex, not do it as a job for God (flames to net.religion please),
and we can afford to be whole people, rather than all living under the
premise that "women" will be one half of what people can be, and that "men"
will be the other half of what people can be.
Honest, men CAN feel emotions. Women CAN change their oil. Everyone can
cook. (ok, flame me because I haven't chosen your stereotypes, but do it
in private, rather than wasting net.singles space on it). My main point
here is that it doesn't matter what you've got between your legs, you can
be a WHOLE person, capable of anything, and you CAN allow yourself to do
anything. Cast aside your inhibitions and be an INDIVIDUAL. Do what YOU
want to do, not what your {friends,co-workers,mother,father,sibling,spouse}
say you must do, because you are {straight,gay,male,female,Christian}. Say,
hey, !@#$%^ society and it's historical "norms", and do YOUR own thing.
Oh, yeah, I forgot something. It takes work to figure out what YOU want, as
opposed to taking the easzy road and doing what you're "supposed to do". I
should again mention M. Scott Peck's book "The Road Less Travelled" as a good
model should you wish to try being an individual. Let me give you an example:
Now this example is far from the norm, but it's the one I know best. It is
also the most difficult to enact, because it goes counter to the largest
number of social taboos. I was born male, but have always felt myself to be
"a woman trapped in a man's body". It's taken a lot of guts and not a small
amount of soul searching and psychotherapy, but I've finally reached the
point where I CAN say it to the world. I am a transsexual, and I don't care
whether you like it or not, that's what I am, and I'm a free individual, and
I have the RIGHT to be the way I want to be (though want is a poor choice of
words for describing gender identity, which is "decided" by age 18months).
Now, if I can stand up to the wrath of the homophobes and the conformists
and the religious zealots, surely you can cast off a PIECE of your social
conditioning, and experiment with doing what YOU want to do, regardless of
whether it is "appropriate" for your {sex,gender,race,religion,etc}.
Hey, guys, go take a cooking class, or learn how to sew.
Hey, gals, go take an auto-mechanics course, or learn to defend yourself.
Ok, how many of you guys have the balls to wear a skirt to work?
Ok, how many of you gals have the ????? to tell the president of your
company to piss-off, that he's wrong, that you're right, that you're sick
and fucking tired of getting less pay for more work, for being refused the
more challenging and rewarding positions at work, that you'd better get a
raise THIS review AND stock options up the ying-yang, or you're gonna
organize a working-women's union at your company and bring the company to
a skreeching halt until you get equal rights?
Men aren't the only ones who can play power games.
Women aren't the only ones who can be sensitive, tender, caring, nurturing.
Now, I'm not claiming there aren't differences between the sexes, because
there certainly are. A lot of the differences are a direct result of:
hormones. Fact is, testosterone makes you aggressive and fiesty, while
estrogen makes you mellow, sensitive, and cooperative. I know these things,
because I have crossed the dividing line, have experienced both sides. And,
unlike the chicken crossing the road to get to the other side, only to wonder
why it did so, I'm determined to erase the double yellow line down the middle
of the road, 'cause I can't drive 55, and at 120 you need BOTH sides of the
road. The "road less travelled", the path to individuality is a LOT of work,
and you often have to travel it alone, because most clones are too busy trying
to conform, to have any idea of who THEY are, as opposed to what it's
fashionable to conform to THIS year (ladies? dress YOUR style, not what's in
fashion from {Paris,NewYawwk}).
(Un)fortunately, most of the world is composed of mindless followers, sheep
who are content to not think for themselves, or wimps who are afraid to be
different. Or women who are content to live in the shadow of their men. OK
here's my chance to turn the tables, and see how many women I can draw fire
from. Now I can be labelled a "women hater" too! Why is it, women, that you
are so content to live as appendages to men? To measure your success by the
"stature" of your man. Is the measure of your ability (women's receptivity)
the powerfulness of the man you've caught? Can you only find fulfillment
vicariously? Or do you have the balls to go out into the world and assert
that you are a WHOLE person, that you can stand on your own, and that YOU
have a mind, full of independent thought, and that you don't need to have
a man to be something? Ow! where's the fire extinguisher? Are you tired
of taking only a supportive nurturing role to men and children? Do you have
any desire to accomplish something in the world? Like taming the hairy
beasts around you so they don't nuke the world? Ow, Ow, it's getting hot!
All of you, men, women, children, WHY ARE WE HERE? What is the purpose of
our spirits being incarnate in the physical world?
No, NO, it's not just to grow up, have kids and die. There's a reason for
it all. No, it's not to sit passively in your church and listen to some
religious clone tell you what he thinks God intended for you. It's not to
just read the bible and think you know God's word. It's NOT just to frig
your brains out until you die. It's not to catch the world's most powerful
man as your husband. It's not to catch the world's foxiest chick as your
wife. It's not to have your children become "my son the doctor" or
"my daughter the lawyer". It's NOT to clone UNIX systems, or even to get
the top rating in "The top 25 news submitters for the last week". And,
*grin*, it's not even to become the world's Zen Druid master.
What is it, you ask? Hell if I know. And even if I told you what I
thought it was, that answer would only be right for ME, not for YOU.
We're each here in the cosmic kindergarten known as Earth for one and
only one reason: To accomplish spiritual growth. Yes, we ARE spirits
who have taken material form. Yes, the ultimate goal is to grow to God's
level of "goodness" so we can join him in his dimension. But we have a
long way to go to get there, or we wouldn't be HERE.
The point is, the journey itself. And each and every one of us, born alone,
will die alone, and we each must make our OWN journey, alone. Oh, you'll
meet many other spirits along the road, and some you may call "wife" or
"husband" for the duration of one "lifetime" or incarnation on this planet,
but we've all been here before, and we'll all be back again. And we each
must make it on our own. If you aren't on "the road less travelled", then
you're wasting incarnations. and if you think for a minute that someone
else can give you the answers, you're out of the race, and into the pit.
And that, folks, is why all the interesting stuff on the net happens in
net.singles. Because those who are certain they have the answers, have
gotten off the road, put down roots for this lifetime, and aren't in the
race for now. Those in net.marrieds are too busy reinforcing each other's
mutually agreed-upon stagnant version of reality to grow. Those in
net.unix-wizards are too busy arguing the relative uselessness of VMS versus
UNIX, or some other method of avoiding the real truth. Fact is, there are
a million games to waste time, and Jeff Sargent's games are no better nor
no worse than any of them. Even playing the "I'm OK, You're OK" game can
be a waste of time, unless you're helping each other grow... That, folks,
is the ONLY game on the planet. Helping your brothers and sisters on their
spritual growth path. I hope this helped, 'cause it's all I've been able
to figure out in 34 years of battling the unknown.
Oh, yeah, I mentioned I'm androgynous? What that means is, unless you're
my lady Karen, it shouldn't make any difference to you what my sex or gender
is, cause that's only the game I'm playing with the body I got this
incarnation. That is my distraction from the journey of my spirit. If I
was any better at coping with, finding, and growing my spirit, I wouldn't
put so much energy into things like programming, achieving androgyny, or
numbing my mind against the pain of living in this world. Hey, wake up,
look around you, and what do you see? The beauty of nature? The beauty
of the spirit inside the next body you see? Or lots of people busy trying
to carve themselves a bigger slice of planet earth. Go ahead, nuke it,
make my day. It doesn't fucking matter. 'cause we're only an n-th rate
species on an m-th rate planet circling a boring star in one spiral arm of
one galaxy in the (to us) visible universe. Hey, it's all just atoms in
the swirl of matter as God flushes his toilet. If you want to do something
interesting with your life, see if YOU can find YOUR spirit within YOUR
body, and figure out for YOURSELF what YOUR RELIGION is, what YOUR journey
through the infinite void is, and what YOU can do to HELP the other SPIRITS
you've met in, for example, net.singles. Hey, I get bored with discussions
of whose tits is biggest. or whether men should be on top or bottom when it
comes to beddy bye time. What really matters is, how good are YOU at giving
someone a HUG when they need it? Love someone for the spirit they are, not
for the body they inhabit.
What is love? Love is giving everything you can to help another spirit grow.
If I've gotten on the case of "men" in this and other forums, it's because
{we,they} are too caught up in catching the foxiest chick around, nailing
her to the bed, and showing her off as a trophy. And if I get on the case
of women, it will be for making their goal to tame the hairiest beast around.
'Cause, folks, that's the game most people in town are playing. Not that I
don't find the mating game very pleasurable, and certainly that IS part of
being a human bean. But what really matters, is your spirit.
The "light side" of the spirit is giving love to other spirits.
The "dark side" of the spirit, is grasping for power, wealth, glory,
and making a gain at someone elses loss. That helps noone.
You want to get somewhere in the spiritual world? Give your love to
anyone you can, how you can, when they'll accept it. I can't think of
a better example I've seen in this forum, than one Sir Chuqui the Plaid.
That man has poured his heart out for each and every one of us.
Hey, you think I'm fucked up, I'm a LOT better than I was a year ago when
I discovered net.singles, and the wisdom and love of Chuqui in all his
writings. So get off your arses, and see if you can improve the quality
and quantity of love YOU give to those around you who need it. And
EVERYONE needs it. Don't think you're wonderful because you're loving the
most {beautiful woman, beastly man} as your "SO". Try a little love
(yes, I mean non-sexual) on your co-workers, co-netters, co-humans.
'cause giving of your life energy IS the only game in town.
trying to take more for yourself is a lose, for you and for everyone around you.
Sunny
--
{ucbvax,decvax,ihnp4}!sun!sunny
Moira Mallison
weary of Jeff's unending self-invalidation as well. I have a couple
different reactions to it.
Generally, when Jeff posts "something new" (since WHEN?), I have a personal
reaction. I want to reply or follow-up with an experience of my own; but
too many times Jeff's response has been "yes, but", so why bother?
Another factor we might consider is the "attention scale". Jeff gets a
lot of attention in this group for being the way he is. Would he continue
to post if that attention dropped off? After all, if he gets to be
different (ie. "better"), how would he get attention on the net?
Obviously, there are readers who don't feel the sense of futility in
reaching out to Jeff. I think I get some value out of my personal reactions
to some of Jeff's "original" postings; however, I would like to see more
of the follow-up moved to mail. Please consider carefully, whether your
response is of of value to the group as a whole.
Moira Mallison
tektronix!moiram
######## still looking for housing in Berkeley! #########
Phil Ngai
> things??? of course not. they were all the basic "oh, i'm such a loser, such
> a poor christian, i'm not as good a person as christ, i can't find an SO,
> i had a terrible childhood, i had a terrible teenage-hood, i'm having a
> terrible adult-hood, i can't find myself, i lied and acted to all the people
> i met when i toured america, i dislike most of the human race, i'm the problem,
> i'm scum"
>
>
> jeff, it was ok the first time. it was ok, the second time. i didn't mind
> the third, but about the 218th time really started to bother me (and
> quite a few others)
I too am getting bored of the same cycle.
--
AMD assumes no responsibility for anything I may say here.
Phil Ngai (408) 749-5790
UUCP: {ucbvax,decwrl,ihnp4,allegra}!amdcad!phil
ARPA: amdcad!ph...@decwrl.ARPA
mal...@ee.uucp
I'm sorry....but I can't be quiet (and polite) about this any longer.
I for one am very tired of acting as a surrugate parent and SO for Jeff
Sargeant. There are a few people out there with hearts of gold that have
continually given the same advice and it is continually ignored.
I enjoy most of net.singles but I am ready to unsubscribe till the JS
fluff goes away.
Maybe net.singles.js should be renamed net.baby!
Malcolm
P.S. And to all those good people that have tried helping JS, please
don't flame at me. All of us have problems and all of us use the net
for support but JS has clearly abused the priviledge.
Gene Spafford
As a quasi-official voice connected with the creation of new
newsgroups, let me point out that starting a new newsgroup for Jeff
Sargent is not something I support, nor is it warranted under the usual
rules for starting a new newsgroup -- no one would subscribe to it,
except (perhaps) Jeff himself.
I think that the majority of (posted) opinion seems to be that the
readers of net.singles are rather tired of seeing all of Jeff's
postings to the net. Fine. But let us not suggest any formal
censoring of Jeff. In the past, he has had some valuable things to
say, and he has started some very interesting discussions. If you are
tired of seeing Jeff's postings, don't read them. Use "rn" to
automatically junk anything he posts. Most importantly, stop replying
to him by posting news -- I think he keeps posting because he gets
people responding, even if negatively (and thus proving his belief that
he is an incredible failure).
We've had other such displays here. The way to respond to people whose
postings habitually annoy you is to send them a note every time they
post something annoying. Don't keep responding in the news. If Jeff
starts receiving 50 or 100 or 500 pieces of mail telling him to quit
whining and go relate to real people instead of the terminal, maybe his
machine will be so busy processing mail that he won't be able to post.
And maybe he'll get the point.
I don't want to censor Jeff, nor do I think we should attempt to censor
anyone. Even the most annoying have something for some of us to learn,
if they present it sincerely. I think we've heard all of Jeff's
presentations too many times already, however, and it might be wise if
we all stopped giving him the same answers and responses. If no one
posted replies to his postings, would Jeff continue to post?
Of course, we could always take up a collection to hire some poor
Purdue undergrads to break Jeff's fingers. If he couldn't type for a
few months, it might force him to break his dependence on the net and
cause him to go out and form other, more rewarding, relationships
with real people.
Whatever. A new newsgroup is not the way to go, though.
--
Gene "7 months and counting" Spafford
The Clouds Project, School of ICS, Georgia Tech, Atlanta GA 30332
CSNet: Spaf @ GATech ARPA: Spaf%GATech.CSNet @ CSNet-Relay.ARPA
uucp: ...!{akgua,allegra,hplabs,ihnp4,linus,seismo,ulysses}!gatech!spaf
Jeff Sargent
> If you are tired of seeing Jeff's postings, don't read them. Use "rn" to
> automatically junk anything he posts. Most importantly, stop replying
> to him by posting news -- I think he keeps posting because he gets
> people responding, even if negatively (and thus proving his belief that
> he is an incredible failure).
The above is largely obsolete, particularly the parenthetical note at the end.
It is true that I have posted many articles in response to articles addressed
to me (and will continue to do so). But I expect that my articles will in
future a) be fewer in number, b) be higher in useful content than previously;
thus automatically junking my postings would be a bit much.
> Of course, we could always take up a collection to hire some poor
> Purdue undergrads to break Jeff's fingers. If he couldn't type for a
> few months, it might force him to break his dependence on the net and
> cause him to go out and form other, more rewarding, relationships
> with real people.
> Gene "7 months and counting" Spafford
Does your fiancee know about your taste for violence? Seriously, who would
want to marry someone who makes such suggestions publicly and without a :-)?
And you folks still don't understand that I have more than the normal want for
security and safety, which renders it harder (though not impossible) to
initiate relationships....
--
-- Jeff Sargent
{decvax|harpo|ihnp4|inuxc|ucbvax}!pur-ee!pucc-h:aeq
"Grate on the Lord, get on His nerves, and you shall get what you want...." :-)
Gene Spafford
>From Gene Spafford (gatech!spaf):
>> Of course, we could always take up a collection to hire some poor
>> Purdue undergrads to break Jeff's fingers. If he couldn't type for a
>> few months, it might force him to break his dependence on the net and
>> cause him to go out and form other, more rewarding, relationships
>> with real people.
>
>> Gene "7 months and counting" Spafford
>
>Does your fiancee know about your taste for violence? Seriously, who would
>want to marry someone who makes such suggestions publicly and without a :-)?
Yes, Kathy knows about my taste (sic) for violence. She loves it. She
thinks that it is wonderful that I'm not so caught up in introspection
and self-doubt that I can come up with ideas for direct action. She is
also the one who came up (indirectly) with the idea of breaking your
fingers. "What would he (Jeff) do if he couldn't type for a few weeks?"
she remarked to me. So, I posed the idea to the net. I didn't think
it needed a :-) after it. Oddly enough, I got 6 replies from people
at Purdue offering to do the job on (at least) your fingers, and only
one was interested in the price; 2 offered to donate their time outright.
My own style would be more on the lines of paying to locate some woman
with similar views to yours and put you in a room together. You could both
feel so fulfilled by being scared to approach each other, and then feel
guilty about not taking the chance. :-)
I'm trying not to act insensitive to your problems, Jeff. I know they're
real, to you at least. I also appreciate the fact that you're trying
to relate to the net community as best you can. You've posted some
interesting and insightful pieces to this group, but you've also
done a lot of whining. You've created a lot of hostility towards
yourself as a result of this, and I don't know how you can negate that
if you continue to post anything that contains yourself as the subject.
There's just so much anyone can take of:
"Oh, I'm so miserable and full of doubt. I got up this morning
and couldn't decide which shoe to put on first. My left shoe
was closest, but I couldn't put it on first because my parents
ruined me as a child by insisting I not put that one on first.
Everyone thinks that the other one is right, but how can I be sure?
How can I know if God wants me to put on the right shoe first?
I know he doesn't want me to have socks before marriage....
If I know the right shoe is first, how do I know which is
actually the right foot? Just because one is at the end of
my right leg doesn't mean it is the right foot. I'm so screwed
up, maybe my left foot is at the end of my right leg. My parents
and God would do that to me as a test and I'm too mixed up
to be able to tell the difference. Oh woe is me!
Maybe I should give it up and just wear sandals? But how could
anyone love me if they saw my toes? Nobody has toes like I do --
nobody! I know that for a fact, and everyone will be staring at my
toes. I can't even stand my own toes -- how could any woman like
me with toes like this? I can't stand it anymore -- I won't
even bother with my shoes. I'm going back to bed."
Even if you now have an analyst helping you out, I think many of us aren't
interested in hearing any more:
"My analyst finally has helped me see that I can put on my own shoes
-- both together at the same time! See, I'm making progress!
I'm sorry about that rash of postings a while back, though, when
my analyst and best net-friend were away at the same time (maybe they
were together plotting against me?) -- but I just couldn't decide
which shoe to tie first. What if I made the wrong choice? If God
isn't testing me, why don't I have loafers? So I wrote all
those things on the net but I won't do it again. Until next time."
If you want to play the martyr, Jeff, find a lions' den and throw yourself
in and be done with it. And that's without a :-)
You've antagonized a lot of people, Jeff, so don't be surprised at the
responses from those with a lower patience threshold than the rest. I
doubt that any of us, no matter what we may say, wish any harm to
befall you; we may, however, continue to react in a belligerent manner
to your postings. We're tired of trying to make it work, Jeff. It's
not you -- it's just us. You'll find another newsgroup someday, and
maybe you'll have subgroups of your own. But not with us. Go now, and
maybe in a few months we can exchange a few notes and try to be friends
again.
--
Gene "6 months and counting" Spafford
Ray Chen
I think that what we've seen over the past few weeks is people on the
net exercising their right to refusal. That is, they've found themselves
in a situation where they're faced with the choice of changing the situation
(i.e. see less of JS's postings) or get angry and frustrated with him
because he (and circumstances) have put them into a situation they can't
stand.
People, it's OK to tell somebody, "I care, but I can't take it anymore."
if the alternative is a gradual hatred. I think in this case, that it
may have been possible to handle it with a little less pain on both sides
but I think that that's partially due to the medium we're communicating over.
The net is nothing like being there.
Jeff, I hate to say this, but this is a risk you take when you start
making anybody your primary source of support, especially if it's a
collection of people with a variety of tolerance levels. Also, keep in
mind that the stuff you're seeing probably represents the extremes of
the range of feelings on the matter. I can't speak for the net, but I
can say that I, for one, care about you, but I think you've just about
worn out my patience. One final thing. NOBODY IS TO BLAME!! I don't
blame you, myself, or anybody else. That's just the way life and
people are. As far as I'm concerned, there's no malice involved, just
the recognisance of a unpleasant situation. I hope you can feel the
same way. So, for now, it would be nice if you could (as you seem to
be doing) cut down on the postings. Thank you.
Now, people, can we please drop the subject, get on with life, and let Jeff
heal and grow in peace?
Ray Chen
princeton!tilt!chenr