Washington Metro Trip
Steven M. Paris
time. We travelled roundtrip from King Street (located in Alexandria,
Virginia) to Smithsonian Station (on the Mall in Washington, D.C.) using a
Blue Line train inbound (at an off-peak hour) and a Yellow Line train
outbound (peak hour and transferring at L'Enfant Plaza Station). Here are
some observations:
#1 - It's VERY expensive. The trip cost $3.45 round-trip for a relatively
short ride. The Blue Line ride is 13 stops. The Yellow Line ride is 7 stops
plus an additional stop on a Blue or Orange train from Smithsonian to
L'Enfant Station. It's not a very long trip measured in miles or time,
provided one is not held up by a train on another route (see #2 below). By
comparison, a much longer trip in Boston - from Wonderland to Mattapan, for
example, on three different vehicles, over about 17 miles of track, would
cost $2.00 round trip, with no distinction between peak and off-peak use. I
also assume that most Washingtonians don't try to add just enough money for
their fares as I did. I assume most people would slip a $20 bill into the
machine and use the fare up until it was time to add more. The machines do
take some getting used to. I cannot imagine some seniors I know trying to
use an AddFare machine!
#2 - It's peculiar that Washington decided to overlap portions of routes the
way they did. The Yellow Line shares parts of its tracks with Green trains
and, in Virginia, with Blue trains. The Blue line overlaps with Orange and
Yellow trains in places. Only the Red line has its tracks for itself. Thus,
during our return trip, our Yellow train was delayed first by a Green train,
and then, after the Potomac River bridge crossing, we were delayed again by
a Blue train. I can only recall NYC and BART doing the same thing and I hear
from relatives and friends in both cities all the time about delays and
congestion (and have experienced myself) due to the practice.
#3 - Some of the station route maps are hard to read because of the shared
routings. I'm partly color-blind; in the dim light of the underground
stations (see #4) I could NOT perceive the little color dots showing which
stations were served by which route[s].
#4 - The underground stations are quite dim, in my opinion.
#5 - The trains themselves are not laid out very well. They need 4 doors per
side as on the Red Line in Boston and the former IND/BMT routes in NYC;
three doors was inadequate. The trains are also excessively tapered from
middle to roof, leading to a claustrophobic feeling. No trains in Boston,
New York or Montreal (and various other cities I have travelled in) are as
tapered as Washington's. I was almost reminded of the deep tube trains in
London! And, finally, the stanchion poles are awkwardly placed and get in
the way of passemgers entering and exiting the trains.
#6 - The trains and stations seemed very clean. The air quality underground
was good. Platforms are wide and even. I didn't notice any grafitti, broken
tiles, peeling paint, etc. Boston and New York, take notice!
#7 - There is some sort of project underway to either repair or augment
station canopies. I'm uncertain what this is all about - perhaps canopies
are needed to protect escalators opening directly onto the street?
#8 - Metro Center station IS impressive and I'm glad I finally got to see
that double arch architecture. Published pictures make the interior arch
appear much taller than it is, but it's still an interesting work. I read
somewhere that many of the station arches were pre-fabricated to reduce
costs, so I'm guessing that is one reason why so many stations appear the
same. Still, when I ride in Boston and especially in cities like Montreal or
Stockholm, I can just glance out the train window and know where I am. The
stations all look different. The "lost gloves" at Porter Square (Boston),
the stained glass murals and art work (Montreal) and classical ruins
(Stockholm) make for interesting rides. It's a pity some art couldn't find
its way onto the Washington Metro. I only rode a small portion of the Metro.
Did I miss seeing art works? Are there plans to add any?
#9 - Since ticketing is done by those AddFare machines, what exactly is the
function of station attendants? Is every station attended during business
hours, and, if so, doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of automating the
ticketing?
All in all, an interesting ride. I wonder how gracefully the Metro will age.
It's now a bit over 25 years old and it will be interesting to see what
shape the infrastructure will be in when the system is 100 years old!
Jay Levitt
> way they did.
Funny.. having moved from Washington to Boston, I find it very peculiar
that there are five different Green lines, so I not only have to know
what color train I want, but what letter as well. Washington's scheme
of one route per color seems much more sensible to me.
Since the routes are identical along the shared portions, having an
Orange train delayed by a Blue train isn't particularly different than
having an Orange train delayed by another orange train.
That said, there are medium-term plans to add an extra track to the
orange/blue lines so that stuck trains of any color can be routed
around.
> #4 - The underground stations are quite dim, in my opinion.
The indirect light certainly isn't what I'd call "bright", but I've
never had trouble seeing anything I needed to see - but then I'm not
color blind.
> #6 - The trains and stations seemed very clean. The air quality underground
> was good. Platforms are wide and even. I didn't notice any grafitti, broken
> tiles, peeling paint, etc. Boston and New York, take notice!
Remember, in fairness to other cities, that the Metro is only about 25
years old...
> #7 - There is some sort of project underway to either repair or augment
> station canopies. I'm uncertain what this is all about - perhaps canopies
> are needed to protect escalators opening directly onto the street?
Exactly. Washington stations are far underground, so it has more
escalators than any other transit system, and there are constant repair
problems, because most of these are exposed to the elements - most
stations don't have any canopies at all over the escalators. There was
a competition to design canopies, and it went about as well as any other
design competition ever goes.
> I'm guessing that is one reason why so many stations appear the
> same.
That, and the fact that the entire system was planned at once in the
recent past, and the fact that Washington prides itself on a very
coherent architecture - in general, buildings in downtown Washington
aren't very distinctive. Also, remember that the arches are functional
- they reflect the indirect light - so you can't have a whole lot of
variation. I am not sure if art is planned or not, but it certainly
would be nice.
> #9 - Since ticketing is done by those AddFare machines, what exactly is the
> function of station attendants? Is every station attended during business
> hours, and, if so, doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of automating the
> ticketing?
Well, their most important function is to hold the keys to the semi-
secret bathrooms which *every* station has, and which are available to
the public in an emergency.
Aside from that, they can give directions, assist confused people with
the FareCard/AddFare machines, call the cops when trouble brews, and do
all those other things that humans are good at.
--
Jay Levitt |
Wellesley, MA | Hi!
Faster: jay at jay dot eff-em | Where are we going?
http://www.jay.fm | Why am I in this handbasket?
Access Systems
> I recently had the opportunity to ride the Washington Metro for the first
> time. We travelled roundtrip from King Street (located in Alexandria,
welcome, shame you didn't have time to ride more of the system
> #1 - It's VERY expensive. The trip cost $3.45 round-trip for a relatively
> short ride. The Blue Line ride is 13 stops. The Yellow Line ride is 7 stops
it is among the more expersive systems, but it was expensive to build, and
it is not very expensive compared to other subway systems such as Tokyo-to
> their fares as I did. I assume most people would slip a $20 bill into the
> machine and use the fare up until it was time to add more. The machines do
> take some getting used to. I cannot imagine some seniors I know trying to
> use an AddFare machine!
right, most folks just drop a $20 or so and ride, the AddFare machines are
only for getting out if your farecard doesn't have enough on it. (shades
of Charlie on the MBTA) the regular farecard machines are used for
regular fares.
> #2 - It's peculiar that Washington decided to overlap portions of routes the
> way they did. The Yellow Line shares parts of its tracks with Green trains
> and, in Virginia, with Blue trains. The Blue line overlaps with Orange and
not unique just one way of doing things others have mentioned the MBTA
green line.
> #3 - Some of the station route maps are hard to read because of the shared
> routings. I'm partly color-blind; in the dim light of the underground
this was an early problem and most color coding should also "Say" what
color it is.
> #4 - The underground stations are quite dim, in my opinion.
this is very intentional, (also saves energy)
> #5 - The trains themselves are not laid out very well. They need 4 doors per
> side as on the Red Line in Boston and the former IND/BMT routes in NYC;
it is a balance between seats and doors, most rides in DC are longer than
other cities so it is considered important to have seats.
> three doors was inadequate. The trains are also excessively tapered from
> middle to roof, leading to a claustrophobic feeling. No trains in Boston,
also intentional to save tunneling costs
> London! And, finally, the stanchion poles are awkwardly placed and get in
> the way of passemgers entering and exiting the trains.
you must have rode some of the earlier cars, the later ones have fewer
poles and more space inside the doors
> #6 - The trains and stations seemed very clean. The air quality underground
one of the very few airconditioned subways
> was good. Platforms are wide and even. I didn't notice any grafitti, broken
the design of the stations was intentional to prevent grafitti, see
strange station design
> #7 - There is some sort of project underway to either repair or augment
> station canopies. I'm uncertain what this is all about - perhaps canopies
> are needed to protect escalators opening directly onto the street?
mentioned earlier, the Escalators were taking a beating and needed
protection
> #8 - Metro Center station IS impressive and I'm glad I finally got to see
> that double arch architecture. Published pictures make the interior arch
> appear much taller than it is, but it's still an interesting work. I read
> somewhere that many of the station arches were pre-fabricated to reduce
> costs, so I'm guessing that is one reason why so many stations appear the
yup it is impressive, notice the how the indirect lighting is up from
under the platforms, and there is no way to actually touch the walls so
grafitti is next to impossible, also it is fully monitored by closed
circuit tv.
> Stockholm, I can just glance out the train window and know where I am. The
> stations all look different. The "lost gloves" at Porter Square (Boston),
> the stained glass murals and art work (Montreal) and classical ruins
catch 22, no art, no plans for art, however the trains are designed so
that station names are visible thru the cars windows on the wall side away
from the platforms, interesting concept but if you don't know about it
most people overlook it.
> #9 - Since ticketing is done by those AddFare machines, what exactly is the
> function of station attendants? Is every station attended during business
> hours, and, if so, doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of automating the
> ticketing?
they teach people how to use the Farecard machines, and answer all the
tourists' questions.
> All in all, an interesting ride. I wonder how gracefully the Metro will age.
> It's now a bit over 25 years old and it will be interesting to see what
> shape the infrastructure will be in when the system is 100 years old!
interesting, hope I live that long to see it ;8*}
Bob
--
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve Neither liberty nor safety", Benjamin Franklin
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
ASCII Ribbon Campaign accessBob
NO HTML/PDF/RTF in e-mail acce...@smartnospam.net
NO MSWord docs in e-mail Access Systems, engineers
NO attachments in e-mail, *LINUX powered* access is a civil right
*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#
THIS message and any attachments are CONFIDENTIAL and may be
privileged. They are intended ONLY for the individual or entity named
John R Cambron
You should have seen them when they were new. Over the years the
grim and dirt has accumulated on the light fixture reflectors and
on the concrete surfaces. In my opinion WMATA does not schedule
power washing of the stations often enough.
> #5 - The trains themselves are not laid out very well. They need 4 doors per
> side as on the Red Line in Boston and the former IND/BMT routes in NYC;
> three doors was inadequate. The trains are also excessively tapered from
> middle to roof, leading to a claustrophobic feeling. No trains in Boston,
> New York or Montreal (and various other cities I have travelled in) are as
> tapered as Washington's. I was almost reminded of the deep tube trains in
> London! And, finally, the stanchion poles are awkwardly placed and get in
> the way of passemgers entering and exiting the trains.
>
> #6 - The trains and stations seemed very clean. The air quality underground
> was good. Platforms are wide and even. I didn't notice any grafitti, broken
> tiles, peeling paint, etc. Boston and New York, take notice!
All of the station in subway are air conditioned, well not really,
more like dehumidified. At any rate the air conditioning system
filters the air in the stations.
As for no peeling paint, well you probably noticed there were very
few surfaces with paint on them.
> #7 - There is some sort of project underway to either repair or augment
> station canopies. I'm uncertain what this is all about - perhaps canopies
> are needed to protect escalators opening directly onto the street?
Back in the day of yore when the DC fine arts commission decided
what WMATA was going to be allowed to do when it built its station
entrances it proclaimed that WMATA would not aloud to put roofs or
canapés over there open station entrances. Well the element have
wrecked havoc on those exposed escalators and WMATA finally convinced
the DC fine arts commission that covering the escalators is in the
best interest of all both financially and for safety reasons.
> #8 - Metro Center station IS impressive and I'm glad I finally got to see
> that double arch architecture. Published pictures make the interior arch
> appear much taller than it is, but it's still an interesting work. I read
> somewhere that many of the station arches were pre-fabricated to reduce
> costs, so I'm guessing that is one reason why so many stations appear the
> same. Still, when I ride in Boston and especially in cities like Montreal or
> Stockholm, I can just glance out the train window and know where I am. The
> stations all look different. The "lost gloves" at Porter Square (Boston),
> the stained glass murals and art work (Montreal) and classical ruins
> (Stockholm) make for interesting rides. It's a pity some art couldn't find
> its way onto the Washington Metro. I only rode a small portion of the Metro.
> Did I miss seeing art works? Are there plans to add any?
The point where the two arches cross in Metro Center (A01 C01)
is the largest self supporting arch of it's kind in the world.
I will also note the the total floor square footage platforms,
mezzanines and passageways in Metro Center is over 127,500
Square feet 11,850 Square meters.
The number of station with pre-fabricated station arches is 11.
10 of the station with precast concrete arch vaults were built
that way because the stations were excavated out of the bed rock.
The precast concrete arch vaults were assembled in the gallery
excavated out of the bed rock are not structural.
Actually you will find significant variation in subway station
design. the base design is what you saw in the the station you
passed through, 22 Coffer pored in place concrete. The other
designs are; 6 Coffer pored in place concrete; 4 Coffer precast
concrete; 6 Coffer precast concrete (only one example); 22 Coffer
precast concrete (only one example); and the transverse arches
in the Anacostia station (F06).
> #9 - Since ticketing is done by those AddFare machines, what exactly is the
> function of station attendants? Is every station attended during business
> hours, and, if so, doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of automating the
> ticketing?
The Station Manager is there to answer question that passages
might have, monitor all of the equipment in the station, monitor
the surveillance cameras in the station and generally be there
to take care of any problems one might have.
> All in all, an interesting ride. I wonder how gracefully the Metro will age.
> It's now a bit over 25 years old and it will be interesting to see what
> shape the infrastructure will be in when the system is 100 years old!
Will it's more the 25% of the way there. At present some of the
older traction power substation are being replaced or have had
there power output increased, a number of them station have had
there platform tile replaced, some of the station entrance
escalators have been totally replaced or overhauled as well as
some of the elevators.
--
======================================================================
Ever wanted one of these John R Cambron
http://205.130.220.18/~cambronj/wmata/ or North Beach MD USA
http://www.chesapeake.net/~cambronj/wmata/ camb...@chesapeake.net
======================================================================
Mark Brader
> > I recently had the opportunity to ride the Washington Metro for the first
> > #1 - It's VERY expensive. The trip cost $3.45 round-trip for a relatively
> > short ride. ... a much longer trip in Boston ... would cost $2.00 ...
Based on admittedly limited experience, I'd say it's the Boston fares
that are atypical and surprising.
> > #4 - The underground stations are quite dim, in my opinion.
John Cambron:
> You should have seen them when they were new. Over the years the
> grim and dirt has accumulated ...
I did see them when they were new, and they were dim then. Indirect
lighting is a bad enough idea to start with, but it's even worse when
the primary surface that's supposed to be reflecting the light is
unpainted gray concrete.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "Constrain your data early and often."
m...@vex.net -- C. M. Sperberg-McQueen
My text in this article is in the public domain.
Jay Levitt
says...
> At some point a decision will have to be made to either spruce up the
> walls/ceilings (lime washes are cheap, permeable, can be made ph
> compatible) or increased lighting.
I seem to recall they whitewashed the walls a few years ago.. no?
Dmitry Rudnev
news:rsGya.4376$cL3.115...@news.nnrp.ca...
> > You should have seen them when they were new. Over the years the
> > grim and dirt has accumulated ...
>
> I did see them when they were new, and they were dim then. Indirect
> lighting is a bad enough idea to start with, but it's even worse when
> the primary surface that's supposed to be reflecting the light is
> unpainted gray concrete.
The idea itself is good enough, at least one station in Moscow has indirect
lightning similar to Washington's, however, the results are on the order of
magnitude better. I've used both Moscow and Washington systems extensively,
so I'm in the position to compare.
See http://tinyurl.com/cb09, the text is in Russian, but the picture speaks
for itself. To be fair, the station has opened in 1991, but I don't think in
15 years it will become as dim as Washington's. By the way, it is one the
deepest stations in the Moscow Metro.
Regards,
Dmitry.
Steven M. Paris
> Based on admittedly limited experience, I'd say it's the Boston fares
> that are atypical and surprising.
You are correct. If I remember correctly, Boston has the lowest subway fares
in the country - $1.00 basic fare with some higher fares on the Red Line
Braintree branch and the Green Line, "D" branch. See
http://www.mbta.com/traveling_t/fares_subway.asp for the full details. I
understand that fares are going up, though, within the next few months.
Pete from Boston
Based on my some-years-removed recollection of the DC metro, the
problem is 1. poor reflective color, 2. many-chambered surface,
creating shadows, and 3. the size of the station, requiring too much
light for it to really reflect well.
wrob
> I recently had the opportunity to ride the Washington Metro for the first
> time. We travelled roundtrip from King Street (located in Alexandria,
> Virginia) to Smithsonian Station (on the Mall in Washington, D.C.) using a
> Blue Line train inbound (at an off-peak hour) and a Yellow Line train
> outbound (peak hour and transferring at L'Enfant Plaza Station). Here are
> some observations:
Did you get to use the Metro more than just once? It's the best way of
getting around the city you know -- I'm not talking in transit-fan terms.
Except to get to Georgetown and Adams Morgan.
> #1 - It's VERY expensive. The trip cost $3.45 round-trip for a relatively
> short ride. The Blue Line ride is 13 stops. The Yellow Line ride is 7 stops
> plus an additional stop on a Blue or Orange train from Smithsonian to
> L'Enfant Station. It's not a very long trip measured in miles or time,
> provided one is not held up by a train on another route (see #2 below).
Try taking it in from Franconia-Springfield where it's $3.45 ONE WAY and
takes about 50 minutes to an hour to go anywhere in DC. The fact is, there
are a lot of wealthy people in the suburbs of DC (and in DC itself, but the
wealthiest parts of DC are either not on the Metro line or so close to
downtown that Metro is not needed.) As for me, I don't understand why
Alexandria gets shafted, since I live equally far from DC in Takoma Park,
and fares are just about $1.10 one way to ANY point in the DC city limits.
This is true for city dwellers and other MD suburbanites, too. I think
it's based on what the market can bear -- the inner suburbs in MD (except
Bethesda) aren't as wealthy as those in Virginia.
> #2 - It's peculiar that Washington decided to overlap portions of routes the
> way they did. The Yellow Line shares parts of its tracks with Green trains
> and, in Virginia, with Blue trains. The Blue line overlaps with Orange and
> Yellow trains in places. Only the Red line has its tracks for itself. Thus,
> during our return trip, our Yellow train was delayed first by a Green train,
> and then, after the Potomac River bridge crossing, we were delayed again by
> a Blue train. I can only recall NYC and BART doing the same thing and I hear
> from relatives and friends in both cities all the time about delays and
> congestion (and have experienced myself) due to the practice.
Actually, it's the most cost-effective engineering solution to designing
a mass transit system. Ignore the colors for a moment -- one of the main
reason monorail systems are so unpopular is that to have a true "system"
you need to multiplex lines for efficiency. This is true of LA's "system",
too, which consists of three lines that do not share track or platforms,
this results in forced multi-platform transfers for almost all journeys,
which is a Bad Thing. The ideal expansion of Metro or any other rapid
transit would resemble a highway network in the ability of the user to
go point-to-point thorughout the system without having to change trains,
simply by boarding the correct train. Three-and four-way station-free
intersections (like that found in West Oakland on BART) are the primary
means of accomplishing this.
> #3 - Some of the station route maps are hard to read because of the shared
> routings. I'm partly color-blind; in the dim light of the underground
> stations (see #4) I could NOT perceive the little color dots showing which
> stations were served by which route[s].
I can see why that would be a problem. But you have to admit the
backlit street maps at stations are useful, no? I understand NYC
is now implementing them as well. Of course they aren't much use
in systems that are mainly park-and-ride oriented, but the idea
with Metro is to have at least some neighborhoods, shops and services
in walking distance from every station, since they are such a big
investment. It's like being near a mall or highway interchange!
> #4 - The underground stations are quite dim, in my opinion.
The lighting effects when a train pulls into the platform
(not just the platform lights but the shadows cast by the
train) were architectural decisions.
The lighting is much brighter in stations where the concrete
has been whitewashed, such as Farragut North (one of the
busiest on the system, painted 10 years ago and it still looks
good.) Whitewashing concrete was a modernist no-no but now
accepted in all new stations. The main problem with new lights
is in low-cielinged areas where direct lighting is garish, like
it is in other systems. Newest stations (Columbia Heights,
Glenmont) solve this with pretty lampshade-style halogen lights
that disperse the light above and below, still mostly indirect.
> #5 - The trains themselves are not laid out very well. They need 4 doors per
> side as on the Red Line in Boston and the former IND/BMT routes in NYC;
> three doors was inadequate. The trains are also excessively tapered from
> middle to roof, leading to a claustrophobic feeling. No trains in Boston,
> New York or Montreal (and various other cities I have travelled in) are as
> tapered as Washington's. I was almost reminded of the deep tube trains in
> London! And, finally, the stanchion poles are awkwardly placed and get in
> the way of passemgers entering and exiting the trains.
No argument here except to note that the station bodies are much more
streamlined and pleasing to the eye than your typical light rail vehicle
or even the WMATA-descended cars in LA, Miami and Baltimore, which look
more like 1940's era NYC Redbirds than streamlined modern vehicles.
Four doors instead of three would be near-impossible due to the
spacious seating requirements, almost all seating is transverse
and padded. Haven't they done similar with the new Market-Frankford
cars in Philly?
> #6 - The trains and stations seemed very clean. The air quality underground
> was good. Platforms are wide and even. I didn't notice any grafitti, broken
> tiles, peeling paint, etc. Boston and New York, take notice!
Those who assert this is a product of age should be advised that
graffiti, etc. are no respector of age. All of WMATA's maintenance
budget is focused on keeping the plaftorms clean and the cars full
of graffiti (the recessed, dimly lit walls and columns take care of
themselves.)
Unfortunately this leaves little money for capital maintenance,
most of which is sucked up by scandalous escalator repair division,
where labor problems seem to be a real issue.
> #7 - There is some sort of project underway to either repair or augment
> station canopies. I'm uncertain what this is all about - perhaps canopies
> are needed to protect escalators opening directly onto the street?
Yep. They need to be real careful in those locations where an impressive
view may be obtained on direct mezzanine-surface escalators, such as in
Dupont Circle, Archives, and Judiciary Square north (off hours) entrance.
Fortunately these stations will get special architectural treatment.
> #8 - Metro Center station IS impressive and I'm glad I finally got to see
> that double arch architecture. Published pictures make the interior arch
> appear much taller than it is, but it's still an interesting work. I read
> somewhere that many of the station arches were pre-fabricated to reduce
> costs, so I'm guessing that is one reason why so many stations appear the
> same. Still, when I ride in Boston and especially in cities like Montreal or
> Stockholm, I can just glance out the train window and know where I am. The
> stations all look different. The "lost gloves" at Porter Square (Boston),
> the stained glass murals and art work (Montreal) and classical ruins
> (Stockholm) make for interesting rides. It's a pity some art couldn't find
> its way onto the Washington Metro. I only rode a small portion of the Metro.
> Did I miss seeing art works? Are there plans to add any?
Mostly at the end of the transepts on the crosing stations is a variety
of neon artwork and muraling along the flat walls at the end of the
barrel vault. E.g. Gallery Place (art at both ends of the transepts,
the Chinatown end has/had a rainbow-illuminated "fan" spreading around
the whole arch, the other end is a giant gallery-like open space where
the upper platform level disappears, like the East Wing of the National
Gallery, the size of the space lends more than a little dignity to
whatever artwork is placed there. I would replace the lame 80's style
yellow neon artwork that is there now (it originally signified the end
of the Yellow Line in postmodern fashion) with one of the National
Gallery's giant Miro tapestries.
There is a lot of neighborhood specific art in the mezannine passageways
leading to the outdoors, as in the U Street mural, the marble "wave wall"
at Archives (which looks like a misplaced part of one of the more
prestigious Mall memorials -- in this case it's part of the Navy memorial
plaza) and the temporary Finnish rainbow light display on the long, narrow
European-style escalator vault at Dupont Circle south entrance -- it was
very mod and appropriate for the location, don't know why they took it down.
And there's plenty more blank, flat surfaces left open for minimalist
artistic reasons that might accomodate art, but if you filled them all
up it would detract from the Bauhaus sensibility. Better to hang pieces
on the flat surfaces behind plexiglas, or large art pieces on the larger
transept vault ends borrowed from the National Gallery.
> #9 - Since ticketing is done by those AddFare machines, what exactly is the
> function of station attendants? Is every station attended during business
> hours, and, if so, doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of automating the
> ticketing?
I would sooner replace the train operators, who are really not necessary
outside of rush hour and inclement weather, but they are such nice people
that it's a little too late for that. It was a fateful decision to hire
operators for a system that is capable of running completely by itself.
Why are gov't employee unions so effective to the point of costing
gov't capabilities, while the rest of us can't find decent unionized
workplaces? It is a conundrum.
> All in all, an interesting ride. I wonder how gracefully the Metro will age.
> It's now a bit over 25 years old and it will be interesting to see what
> shape the infrastructure will be in when the system is 100 years old!
Probably more or less the same. I'm hoping system expansion will continue
before we start running into horrible tunnel liner problems or whatever,
like the Hudson tunnels in NY. Stalagtites are interesting and could be
considered Station Art, especially if they get really big (should take
about 1000 years, no?)
-Brian in Takoma Park MD
wrob
> Based on my some-years-removed recollection of the DC metro, the
> problem is 1. poor reflective color, 2. many-chambered surface,
> creating shadows, and 3. the size of the station, requiring too much
> light for it to really reflect well.
The deep shadows created by passing trains are intentional architectural
effects. In fact you can't really see the flashing platform lights
anymore until the shadow cast by the train is in the station. This
means that the flashing platform edge lights are primarily useful
in illuminating people's footsteps after the train has opened its
doors, which is pretty illogical but creates a nice old-fashioned
modernist effect.
The shadows in the individual coffer chambers do kind of give a
depressing effect, however, these stations are almost entirely
concentrated within the boundaries of the original L'Enfant City
(south of Florida Ave, north of the Potomac and Anacostia Rivers)
plus a few in central Arlington. I suspect this was partly
intentional since the traditional "honeycomb" vaults is intended
to provide a monumental look to the stations in the central core,
like the roof of the Jefferson and Lincoln Memorials.
Originally almost ALL stations outside the central core were going
to be surface/elevated, but a few highways got cancelled and the
central Arlington legs diverted underground to facilitate development
(North Arlington is where the system operates most like a traditional
city subway with stops every 6 blocks on a radial corridor.) When
more stops got put underground, they found that most of the stations
outside the L'Enfant City (where the ground is deep floodplain that
can be excavated to enormous depth) had to be bored tunnel, e.g. in
Upper Northwest DC and parts of the suburbs.
In these areas the decision was made to move to an "Arch" design
that has only 4-6 coffers around the circumference compared to 24
(or whatever). These stations are MUCH brighter, ESPECIALLY the
newer ones on the Green line north of Florida Ave and south of the
Anacostia River where sound-and-light-reflective batting is included
in the coffers, but without the numerous latitudinal "bathtub edges"
to cast deep shadows. Also the walls are whitewashed, as they are
in a couple of the "old" stations.
In fact the "inner city" stations on the Green Line (last to be built,
for various reasons best left to the imagination) are some of the most
pleasing stations in terms of lighting.
-Brian R.
Scott M. Kozel
> way they did. The Yellow Line shares parts of its tracks with Green trains
> and, in Virginia, with Blue trains. The Blue line overlaps with Orange and
> Yellow trains in places. Only the Red line has its tracks for itself. Thus,
> during our return trip, our Yellow train was delayed first by a Green train,
> and then, after the Potomac River bridge crossing, we were delayed again by
> a Blue train. I can only recall NYC and BART doing the same thing and I hear
> from relatives and friends in both cities all the time about delays and
> congestion (and have experienced myself) due to the practice.
I have ridded Metrorail numerous times, and have been following the
construction since it began in 1969, and I've never before heard anyone
say that the overlapping of lines causes delay or congestion.
The system was planned and designed as a whole system. The overlapping
of lines makes a lot of sense, since it provides double lines in the
more urbanized areas, and single lines as they branch out into the more
suburban areas.
The system was designed with Automatic Train Control (ATC) from the
beginning, and it coordinates the proper scheduling and spacing of
trains on the whole system, including properly spacing the trains of two
different lines on the double lines.
--
Scott M. Kozel Highway and Transportation History Websites
Virginia/Maryland/Washington, D.C. http://www.roadstothefuture.com
Philadelphia and Delaware Valley http://www.pennways.com
John R Cambron
I would also note that WMATA has experiment with different colors
of florescent lights over the years The cool white florescent
lights that are found in some of stations are not as bright as
the station with the warm white florescent lights. Many of the
newer island platform stations with the vapor lights mounted on
top of the graph pylons have sodium vapor lamps in them which
make the station brighter.
John R Cambron
Jay Levitt wrote:
>
> In article <55tmcvs9er786p1fd...@4ax.com>, mag...@mac.com
> says...
> > At some point a decision will have to be made to either spruce up the
> > walls/ceilings (lime washes are cheap, permeable, can be made ph
> > compatible) or increased lighting.
>
> I seem to recall they whitewashed the walls a few years ago.. no?
Yes some of the station on the D route Blue Orange line west of
L'Enfant Plaza (D03) have had some kind of coating applied to the
concrete station vault.
Ron Newman
> > #5 - The trains themselves are not laid out very well. They need 4 doors per
> > side as on the Red Line in Boston
> Four doors instead of three would be near-impossible due to the
> spacious seating requirements, almost all seating is transverse
> and padded.
Only the latest (01800) series of Boston Red Line cars have four doors.
At the time, the MBTA said that rider surveys showed a preference
for "more doors" rather than "more seats".
Ron Newman
John R Cambron <*camb...@chesapeake.net*> wrote:
> Actually you will find significant variation in subway station
> design.
If the differences are there they are very subtle. Not nearly enough to
let a passenger look out the window and immediately know what station
she has arrived at.
Ron Newman
"Steven M. Paris" <spa...@world.std.com> wrote:
The base fare will most likely increase to $1.25 .
Ron Newman
Jay Levitt <jay+...@jay.fm> wrote:
> > #2 - It's peculiar that Washington decided to overlap portions of routes the
> > way they did.
>
> Funny.. having moved from Washington to Boston, I find it very peculiar
> that there are five different Green lines,
Four .. but also two Red Line branches.
Ron Newman
I arrive at my destination with a fare card that's 45 cents short of the
correct fare. I have only a $20 bill. What do I do?
Scott M. Kozel
>
> John R Cambron <*camb...@chesapeake.net*> wrote:
>
> > Actually you will find significant variation in subway station
> > design.
>
> If the differences are there they are very subtle. Not nearly enough to
> let a passenger look out the window and immediately know what station
> she has arrived at.
I agree with John about the "significant variation". The differences
between the 22-coffer, the 6-coffer, and the 4-coffer designs, is
substantial, and is visible from inside the train, and is quite visible
from the platform.
Also, there are three two-level 4-way transfer subway stations (Metro
Center, Gallery Place, L'Enfant Plaza) and there are two split-level
3-way transfer subway stations (Pentagon, Rosslyn).
Then, there are special design subway stations like Anacostia, the lower
level of Fort Totten, and Forest Glen (each very different).
I count at least 8 different subway station designs in the variations of
the "monumental theme".
I've ridded over the entire system and have walked the platforms of most
of the stations, so my perspective is that there is a significant
variation in subway station design.
--
Bill Pittman
Ron Newman <rne...@thecia.net> wrote:
You do like Charlie on the MTA (old Kingston Trio song, in case you
didn't know) and ride around on the Metro for the rest of your life.
Jay Levitt
> > If the differences are there they are very subtle. Not nearly enough to
> > let a passenger look out the window and immediately know what station
> > she has arrived at.
>
> I agree with John about the "significant variation". The differences
> between the 22-coffer, the 6-coffer, and the 4-coffer designs, is
> substantial, and is visible from inside the train, and is quite visible
> from the platform.
Not to a non-railfan... I rode the system casually for twelve years,
usually a different station each time, and I never, ever realized that
the stations were of different designs. If I noticed the different
coffer counts, it was as one would notice different sized road
intersections. "Oh, this looks like 135', that must be the corner of
Lee Highway and West Ox Road.."
Jay Levitt
rne...@thecia.net says...
> > Funny.. having moved from Washington to Boston, I find it very peculiar
> > that there are five different Green lines,
>
> Four .. but also two Red Line branches.
Oh, right, because there is no A branch.. which also makes a world of
sense...
Scott M. Kozel
>
> koz...@attbi.com says...
>
> > I agree with John about the "significant variation". The differences
> > between the 22-coffer, the 6-coffer, and the 4-coffer designs, is
> > substantial, and is visible from inside the train, and is quite visible
> > from the platform.
>
> Not to a non-railfan... I rode the system casually for twelve years,
> usually a different station each time, and I never, ever realized that
> the stations were of different designs. If I noticed the different
> coffer counts, it was as one would notice different sized road
> intersections. "Oh, this looks like 135', that must be the corner of
> Lee Highway and West Ox Road.."
A non-railfan can easily notice the differences, IMO.
22-coffer --
http://www.roadstothefuture.com/Ballston_Metro_Station.html
6-coffer --
http://www.roadstothefuture.com/Metro_ColHts_Station.jpg
http://www.roadstothefuture.com/Metro_GAPet_Station.jpg
http://www.roadstothefuture.com/Congress_Heights_Station.html
4-coffer --
http://www.nycsubway.org/us/washdc/red/wmata-red-vanness.html
Two-level 4-way transfer subway station --
http://www.roadstothefuture.com/Metro_Center_Station.jpg
Split-level 3-way transfer subway station --
http://web.presby.edu/~jtbell/transit/images/Washington/Metro/Pentagon1.jpg
http://web.presby.edu/~jtbell/transit/Washington/Metro/
Anacostia (transverse vaults) --
http://www.roadstothefuture.com/Anacostia_Station.html
Lower level of Fort Totten (half subway / half surface, twin train
halls) --
http://www.roadstothefuture.com/Metro_FT_Sta_Photos13.html
Forest Glen (twin train halls) --
http://www.roadstothefuture.com/Forest_Glen_Metro_Station.html
David Z Maze
> In article <rnewman-76A9B9...@enews.newsguy.com>,
> rne...@thecia.net says...
>> > Funny.. having moved from Washington to Boston, I find it very peculiar
>> > that there are five different Green lines,
>>
>> Four .. but also two Red Line branches.
>
> Oh, right, because there is no A branch.. which also makes a world of
> sense...
It made sense in between 1966, when the current line coloring/naming
scheme came into existence, and 1969, when the Watertown line was
"temporarily suspended"...
--
David Maze dm...@mit.edu http://www.mit.edu/~dmaze/
Proud supporter of the Washington Street elevated line,
service temporarily suspended in 1987
wrob
Probably because they weren't padded. ;-p
Jon Bell
Jay Levitt <jay+...@jay.fm> wrote:
>In article <rnewman-76A9B9...@enews.newsguy.com>,
>rne...@thecia.net says...
>> > Funny.. having moved from Washington to Boston, I find it very peculiar
>> > that there are five different Green lines,
>>
>> Four .. but also two Red Line branches.
>
>Oh, right, because there is no A branch.. which also makes a world of
>sense...
Well, there *used* to be an A (to Watertown), but it was "suspended" in
the late 1960s IIRC, and finally abandoned officially (and the tracks and
wire taken out) in the mid 1990s.
--
Jon Bell <jtbe...@presby.edu> Presbyterian College
Dept. of Physics and Computer Science Clinton, South Carolina USA
Allston Parking Refugee
The turnstyle where you entered wouldn't have let you in unless your
farecard had the minimum trip amount ($1.10), so you could always go
back to a station near where you started, waiting for peak hours to
end if necessary. If you missed the last train of the night back
there, oh well.
WMATA has a reputation about being very strict, and there are stories
of people being arrested for eating in stations. If you asked for
help (or got caught jumping the turnstyle) maybe they'd cite or arrest
you; maybe they'd just let you out. Does anyone know for sure what
happens in practice?
-Apr
Ron Newman
"Scott M. Kozel" <koz...@attbi.com> wrote:
> A non-railfan can easily notice the differences
[between WMATA stations]
OK, let's suppose that you took all signs with words out of a WMATA
station, blindfolded a rider, and took her to that stop. Would she be
able to easily identify where she was?
In Boston, any experienced MBTA rider could do this with ease, at least
on lines that she rode regularly.
Jay Levitt
AllstonPar...@hotmail.com says...
> WMATA has a reputation about being very strict, and there are stories
> of people being arrested for eating in stations. If you asked for
> help (or got caught jumping the turnstyle) maybe they'd cite or arrest
> you; maybe they'd just let you out. Does anyone know for sure what
> happens in practice?
In practice, you wait until somebody nice enough to give you 45 cents
walks by...
Jay Levitt
> A non-railfan can easily notice the differences, IMO.
Can? Yes, especially once they're pointed out. Will? I doubt it. Go
take a survey of Metro commuters next time you're bored...
That said, I think the signs are ample, and unlike on the T, in
Washington I never, ever wondered what station I was arriving at.
Kevin Lagasse
> I recently had the opportunity to ride the Washington Metro for the first
> time. We travelled roundtrip from King Street (located in Alexandria,
> Virginia) to Smithsonian Station (on the Mall in Washington, D.C.) using a
> Blue Line train inbound (at an off-peak hour) and a Yellow Line train
> outbound (peak hour and transferring at L'Enfant Plaza Station). Here are
> some observations:
>
> short ride. The Blue Line ride is 13 stops. The Yellow Line ride is 7 stops
> plus an additional stop on a Blue or Orange train from Smithsonian to
> L'Enfant Station. It's not a very long trip measured in miles or time,
> comparison, a much longer trip in Boston - from Wonderland to Mattapan, for
> example, on three different vehicles, over about 17 miles of track, would
> cost $2.00 round trip, with no distinction between peak and off-peak use. I
> also assume that most Washingtonians don't try to add just enough money for
> their fares as I did. I assume most people would slip a $20 bill into the
> machine and use the fare up until it was time to add more. The machines do
> take some getting used to. I cannot imagine some seniors I know trying to
> use an AddFare machine!
>
Were you there for a daytrip? Usually, when I visit Washington DC,
I'll pay $5 and buy a one-day pass. It saves the hassle of dealing
with Metro's Exitfare machines. Just don't lose the pass under any
circumstances! I did just that on my first encounter with Metro in
1996. The guard on duty wanted to know where I had entered and then
directed me to the Exitfare machine. (Usually, I'll use the red line
from Union Station to Metro Center and transfer to the orange line for
Rosslyn (Arlington, VA), which is the first station in Virginia
heading outbound.)
> #2 - It's peculiar that Washington decided to overlap portions of routes the
> way they did. The Yellow Line shares parts of its tracks with Green trains
> and, in Virginia, with Blue trains. The Blue line overlaps with Orange and
> Yellow trains in places. Only the Red line has its tracks for itself. Thus,
> during our return trip, our Yellow train was delayed first by a Green train,
> and then, after the Potomac River bridge crossing, we were delayed again by
> a Blue train. I can only recall NYC and BART doing the same thing and I hear
> from relatives and friends in both cities all the time about delays and
> congestion (and have experienced myself) due to the practice.
>
> #3 - Some of the station route maps are hard to read because of the shared
> routings. I'm partly color-blind; in the dim light of the underground
> stations (see #4) I could NOT perceive the little color dots showing which
> stations were served by which route[s].
>
> #4 - The underground stations are quite dim, in my opinion.
>
> #5 - The trains themselves are not laid out very well. They need 4 doors per
> side as on the Red Line in Boston and the former IND/BMT routes in NYC;
> three doors was inadequate. The trains are also excessively tapered from
> middle to roof, leading to a claustrophobic feeling. No trains in Boston,
> New York or Montreal (and various other cities I have travelled in) are as
> tapered as Washington's. I was almost reminded of the deep tube trains in
> London! And, finally, the stanchion poles are awkwardly placed and get in
> the way of passemgers entering and exiting the trains.
>
> #6 - The trains and stations seemed very clean. The air quality underground
> was good. Platforms are wide and even. I didn't notice any grafitti, broken
> tiles, peeling paint, etc. Boston and New York, take notice!
>
> #7 - There is some sort of project underway to either repair or augment
> station canopies. I'm uncertain what this is all about - perhaps canopies
> are needed to protect escalators opening directly onto the street?
>
> #8 - Metro Center station IS impressive and I'm glad I finally got to see
> that double arch architecture. Published pictures make the interior arch
> appear much taller than it is, but it's still an interesting work. I read
> somewhere that many of the station arches were pre-fabricated to reduce
> costs, so I'm guessing that is one reason why so many stations appear the
> same. Still, when I ride in Boston and especially in cities like Montreal or
> Stockholm, I can just glance out the train window and know where I am. The
> stations all look different. The "lost gloves" at Porter Square (Boston),
> the stained glass murals and art work (Montreal) and classical ruins
> (Stockholm) make for interesting rides. It's a pity some art couldn't find
> its way onto the Washington Metro. I only rode a small portion of the Metro.
> Did I miss seeing art works? Are there plans to add any?
>
> #9 - Since ticketing is done by those AddFare machines, what exactly is the
> function of station attendants? Is every station attended during business
> hours, and, if so, doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of automating the
> ticketing?
>
Access Systems
> Ron Newman <rne...@thecia.net> wrote:
>> A question about Washington Metro:
>>
>> I arrive at my destination with a fare card that's 45 cents short of the
>> correct fare. I have only a $20 bill. What do I do?
> The turnstyle where you entered wouldn't have let you in unless your
> farecard had the minimum trip amount ($1.10), so you could always go
right but you could have had the $1.10 but still be short for a longer
trip, so you put your farecard into an "AddFare" machine in the paid area,
put your $20 bill in the machince and pocket your $19.60 in coins......
> WMATA has a reputation about being very strict, and there are stories
> of people being arrested for eating in stations. If you asked for
> help (or got caught jumping the turnstyle) maybe they'd cite or arrest
> you; maybe they'd just let you out. Does anyone know for sure what
> happens in practice?
go to the kiosk, talk to the station attendant, usually they'll read you
the riot act, then let you out, also if you know where there are one or
two places where you can exit without passing a farecard machine....which
really drives the farecard machine nuts when you try to reenter the system
without having exited...
Bob
--
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve Neither liberty nor safety", Benjamin Franklin
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
ASCII Ribbon Campaign accessBob
NO HTML/PDF/RTF in e-mail acce...@smartnospam.net
NO MSWord docs in e-mail Access Systems, engineers
NO attachments in e-mail, *LINUX powered* access is a civil right
*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#
THIS message and any attachments are CONFIDENTIAL and may be
privileged. They are intended ONLY for the individual or entity named
Scott M. Kozel
>
> "Scott M. Kozel" <koz...@attbi.com> wrote:
>
> > A non-railfan can easily notice the differences
> [between WMATA stations]
You edited what I said to provide a different meaning.
> OK, let's suppose that you took all signs with words out of a WMATA
> station, blindfolded a rider, and took her to that stop. Would she be
> able to easily identify where she was?
Most of the designs that I mentioned each apply to a group of stations,
so that is not really a fair question.
Your scenario obviously is never going to happen, but even if you took
them to Anacostia, how would they know that design was unique unless
they were familiar with all the other subway stations in the system,
which is unlikely given the extent of the system?
> In Boston, any experienced MBTA rider could do this with ease, at least
> on lines that she rode regularly.
Baltimore's subway station designs were deliberately chosen to be unique
for each station. Experienced riders could do the same thing there.
But I'm not sure what the point of that is.
Scott M. Kozel
>
> koz...@attbi.com says...
>
> > A non-railfan can easily notice the differences, IMO.
>
> Can? Yes, especially once they're pointed out. Will? I doubt it. Go
> take a survey of Metro commuters next time you're bored...
That depends on how observant the person is of architecture. Some
people couldn't care less, but the person who has some interest in
architecture, would notice the significant difference between a station
like Glenmont and a station like Ballston, for instance.
It would also depend on how familiar the person was with the whole
system.
> That said, I think the signs are ample, and unlike on the T, in
> Washington I never, ever wondered what station I was arriving at.
The many signs and pylons in a station do mark the names well.
John R Cambron
Ron Newman wrote:
>
> In article <3ECD1846...@attbi.com>,
> "Scott M. Kozel" <koz...@attbi.com> wrote:
>
> > A non-railfan can easily notice the differences
> [between WMATA stations]
>
> OK, let's suppose that you took all signs with words out of a WMATA
> station, blindfolded a rider, and took her to that stop. Would she be
> able to easily identify where she was?
To the average rider, probably no in most cases. I can tell you
without a doubt I could do it.
One of the comments I got from a form one of the people that sat
in on a slide show tour I did of phase II (National Airport (C11)
to Stadium-Armory (D08)) of the system back in 1975 was "Gee, all
the station look so much the same". I will also note these images
were taken during construction and none of the graphics had yet
been installed.
I can't and will not try to deny that there are a lot of people
that feel that most of the station look the same, and I have no
problem with that.
But what I will tell you every station has many subtle differences
that on careful exploration will be revealed.
> In Boston, any experienced MBTA rider could do this with ease, at least
> on lines that she rode regularly.
--
Scott M. Kozel
> > "Scott M. Kozel" <koz...@attbi.com> wrote:
> >
> > > A non-railfan can easily notice the differences
> >
> > station, blindfolded a rider, and took her to that stop. Would she be
> > able to easily identify where she was?
>
> To the average rider, probably no in most cases. I can tell you
> without a doubt I could do it.
>
> One of the comments I got from a form one of the people that sat
> in on a slide show tour I did of phase II (National Airport (C11)
> to Stadium-Armory (D08)) of the system back in 1975 was "Gee, all
> the station look so much the same". I will also note these images
> were taken during construction and none of the graphics had yet
> been installed.
Well, that was true as of Phase II... all the subway stations had the
22-coffer vault and all the surface stations had the gullwing canopy...
correct?
It was later lines that started differing the designs.
> I can't and will not try to deny that there are a lot of people
> that feel that most of the station look the same, and I have no
> problem with that.
>
> But what I will tell you every station has many subtle differences
> that on careful exploration will be revealed.
I haven't mentioned the mezzanines. Some subway stations have a small
mezzanine, and some have a long mezzanine. With the small, most of the
view from the platform is that of the high vault; with the long, much of
the platform is under the mezzanine and gives more of a "boxy" feel.
Ron Newman
KML...@AOL.COM (Kevin Lagasse) wrote:
> Were you there for a daytrip? Usually, when I visit Washington DC,
> I'll pay $5 and buy a one-day pass. It saves the hassle of dealing
> with Metro's Exitfare machines. Just don't lose the pass under any
> circumstances! I did just that on my first encounter with Metro in
> 1996. The guard on duty wanted to know where I had entered and then
> directed me to the Exitfare machine.
And what exactly were you supposed to do at the Exitfare machine,
since you didn't have a pass or a ticket to feed it?
Exile on Market Street
> In misc.transport.urban-transit Steven M. Paris <spa...@world.std.com> wrote:
>
>>#6 - The trains and stations seemed very clean. The air quality underground
>
The *stations* are air-conditioned?
Or is it just forced ventilation (fan-assisted)?
I'd be very surprised if it were the former.
--
Sandy Smith, Exile on Market Street, Philadelphia smi...@pobox.upenn.edu
Managing Editor, _Penn Current_ cur...@pobox.upenn.edu
Penn Web Team Member webm...@isc.upenn.edu
I speak for myself here, not Penn http://pobox.upenn.edu/~smiths/
"Maybe Bill [Clinton] is the comforting pocket change of racial
understanding, a sort of black Clarence Thomas."
--from "The Bill Show" by P.J. O'Rourke (Atlantic Monthly, March 2003)--
wrob
> Well, that was true as of Phase II... all the subway stations had the
> 22-coffer vault and all the surface stations had the gullwing canopy...
> correct?
>
> It was later lines that started differing the designs.
Most of the stations on the NY subway look the same without the
signs, if you go line-by-line.
Like in NY, most of the line-length intermediate stations in
DC look very, very similar. This is especially odd when you
encounter one of the stations in Arlington, since I (personally)
am used to thinking I'm in downtown DC when I encounter one of
the "monumental" 22-coffer waffle cieling stations. On the MD
side of the river there are no such stations outside of the
borders of the L'Enfant City, perhaps subconscious design intent
on the part of the engineers...
But most of the DESTINATION and TRANSFER stations are very
distinctive! I can't understand why anyone would want, say
the Potomac Yard or Ballston stations all tricked-up. We're
talking intermediate origin stations, not so much major
daytime destination points.
I could see it with an interesting neighborhood like Clarendon
or U Street, maybe something like Hollywood & Vine, but these
neighborhoods should feel honored to have the 22-coffer design
since it places them in the "city" psychologically, anyhow.
Consider the major stations:
Metro Center -- very famous cathedral-style layout.
Gallery Place -- huge 3-level mezzanine distribution
system square in the middle of the crossing
point with bright lighting, plus giant walls
at the end of the Yellow Line transepts with
large neon artwork.
Judiciary Square -- the only perfectly symmetrical
station in the entire system, to my knowledge --
even the elevators are directly diagonal features
in the circular Law Enforcment Memorial plaza and
are done up in brushed steel instead of brown.
Dupont Circle -- standard, but with spectacular escalators.
Friendship Heights -- pod-like circular 5-way landing
connects to three or four different malls under
Western Ave.
Farragut North -- mezzanine runs 1/2 the length of the
station and is suspended from the vault with
an open area in the middle, rather than vice
versa; also, station is brightly whitewashed.
Union Station -- Looks like Farragut North with smaller
mezzanine. There is a hidden entryway in the
1st street entrance that could be opened up for
connection to an M St/H Street blue line metro.
Carriage porch entryway (south end) is memorable.
L'Enfant Plaza -- grungier looking version of Gallery Place,
without the mezzanine in the middle of the crossing.
Rosslyn, Pentagon -- matching split-level stations with
deep escalators to surface in the case of Rosslyn.
Archives -- standard, but whitewashed -- very obvious.
Hard to miss single entryway on Penna. Ave.
Mount Vernon/Convention Center -- standard 4-coffer arch
design but extremely grotty due to water damage from
convention center, unlike all other stations on the line.
Federal Triangle -- standard but lone entryway is unique -- it has
stepped escalators and two exit levels, one into the
Reagan building atrium and one into the loggia of the FTC.
The atrium level was fenced off, leading to parts unknown,
for 20 years.
Smithsonian, Federal Center SW -- not important destination points
for non-tourists, so they get the standard undistinguishable
treatment. :-p
Farragut West, McPherson Sq -- Okay, you got me. Pastel paint job?
Of course most of the stations on the surface (except those in
highway medians!) are very distinctive to anyone who has any idea
where they are going.
Tim Kynerd
> "Steven M. Paris" <spa...@world.std.com> wrote:
>>
>> #2 - It's peculiar that Washington decided to overlap portions of routes
>> the way they did. The Yellow Line shares parts of its tracks with Green
>> trains and, in Virginia, with Blue trains. The Blue line overlaps with
>> Orange and Yellow trains in places. Only the Red line has its tracks for
>> itself. Thus, during our return trip, our Yellow train was delayed first
>> by a Green train, and then, after the Potomac River bridge crossing, we
>> were delayed again by a Blue train. I can only recall NYC and BART doing
>> the same thing and I hear from relatives and friends in both cities all
>> the time about delays and congestion (and have experienced myself) due
>> to the practice.
>
> I have ridded Metrorail numerous times, and have been following the
> construction since it began in 1969, and I've never before heard anyone
> say that the overlapping of lines causes delay or congestion.
>
> The system was planned and designed as a whole system. The overlapping of
> lines makes a lot of sense, since it provides double lines in the more
> urbanized areas, and single lines as they branch out into the more
> suburban areas.
>
> The system was designed with Automatic Train Control (ATC) from the
> beginning, and it coordinates the proper scheduling and spacing of trains
> on the whole system, including properly spacing the trains of two
> different lines on the double lines.
The mixing of different lines on one track doesn't cause delays in itself,
but it does cause delays that occur on the shared portion to be
transmitted from one line to another.
For instance, if an Addison Road-bound Blue Line train experiences a delay
at Federal Triangle, that delay is going to affect New Carrollton-bound
Orange Line trains as well as other Blue Line trains.
--
Tim Kynerd Sundbyberg (småstan i storstan), Sweden tky...@spamcop.net
Sunrise in Stockholm today: 4:04
Sunset in Stockholm today: 21:24
My rail transit photos at http://www.kynerd.nu
Tim Kynerd
> Ron Newman <rne...@thecia.net> wrote:
>>
>> John R Cambron <*camb...@chesapeake.net*> wrote:
>>
>> > Actually you will find significant variation in subway station design.
>>
>> If the differences are there they are very subtle. Not nearly enough to
>> let a passenger look out the window and immediately know what station
>> she has arrived at.
>
> I agree with John about the "significant variation". The differences
> between the 22-coffer, the 6-coffer, and the 4-coffer designs, is
> substantial, and is visible from inside the train, and is quite visible
> from the platform.
>
> Also, there are three two-level 4-way transfer subway stations (Metro
> Center, Gallery Place, L'Enfant Plaza) and there are two split-level 3-way
> transfer subway stations (Pentagon, Rosslyn).
>
> Then, there are special design subway stations like Anacostia, the lower
> level of Fort Totten, and Forest Glen (each very different).
And my favorite, Prince George's Plaza.
Still, I agree that the variation is not sufficient to make it useful for
orientation purposes.
Tim Kynerd
>
>
> Jay Levitt wrote:
>>
>> In article <55tmcvs9er786p1fd...@4ax.com>, mag...@mac.com
>> says...
>> > At some point a decision will have to be made to either spruce up the
>> > walls/ceilings (lime washes are cheap, permeable, can be made ph
>> > compatible) or increased lighting.
>>
>> I seem to recall they whitewashed the walls a few years ago.. no?
>
> Yes some of the station on the D route Blue Orange line west of L'Enfant
> Plaza (D03) have had some kind of coating applied to the concrete station
> vault.
They did this at Farragut North while I was still living in DC (i.e.,
before 1994). On recent visits I've noticed that the whitewash is still
there.
Tim Kynerd
If you're inside the paid area (where the Exitfare machines are) and you
don't have a farecard or a pass, then by definition you've entered
illegally and should be fined.
I suspect Kevin didn't tell us all the details of his story.
Tim Kynerd
> In ne.transportation Allston Parking Refugee
> <AllstonPar...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Ron Newman <rne...@thecia.net> wrote:
>>> A question about Washington Metro:
>>>
>>> I arrive at my destination with a fare card that's 45 cents short of
>>> the correct fare. I have only a $20 bill. What do I do?
>
>> The turnstyle where you entered wouldn't have let you in unless your
>> farecard had the minimum trip amount ($1.10), so you could always go
>
> right but you could have had the $1.10 but still be short for a longer
> trip, so you put your farecard into an "AddFare" machine in the paid area,
> put your $20 bill in the machince and pocket your $19.60 in coins......
Except that WMATA's machines won't give more than $4.95 in change. You'll
simply have to accept the fact that the rest of your money is locked into
a farecard...and learn to check the balance on your farecard before you
take a ride in the future.
-snip-
Tim Kynerd
> In article <pan.2003.05.23....@spamcop.net>,
> "Tim Kynerd" <tky...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>
>> >>> I arrive at my destination with a fare card that's 45 cents short of
>> >>> the correct fare. I have only a $20 bill. What do I do?
>> >
>> >> The turnstyle where you entered wouldn't have let you in unless your
>> >> farecard had the minimum trip amount ($1.10), so you could always go
>> >
>> > right but you could have had the $1.10 but still be short for a longer
>> > trip, so you put your farecard into an "AddFare" machine in the paid
>> > area, put your $20 bill in the machince and pocket your $19.60 in
>> > coins......
>>
>> Except that WMATA's machines won't give more than $4.95 in change.
>> You'll simply have to accept the fact that the rest of your money is
>> locked into a farecard...and learn to check the balance on your farecard
>> before you take a ride in the future.
>
> Can you actually add more money to a farecard than is required to exit?
I've actually never used an Exitfare machine, so I don't know. But I
wouldn't expect any of WMATA's machines to give more than $4.95 in change
under any circumstances. If they won't and you can't add more than you
need to exit, you would be screwed. (And that would be really stupid.)
Tim Kynerd
> I recently had the opportunity to ride the Washington Metro for the first
> time. We travelled roundtrip from King Street (located in Alexandria,
> Virginia) to Smithsonian Station (on the Mall in Washington, D.C.) using a
> Blue Line train inbound (at an off-peak hour) and a Yellow Line train
> outbound (peak hour and transferring at L'Enfant Plaza Station). Here are
> some observations:
>
> #1 - It's VERY expensive. The trip cost $3.45 round-trip for a relatively
> short ride. The Blue Line ride is 13 stops. The Yellow Line ride is 7
> stops plus an additional stop on a Blue or Orange train from Smithsonian
> to L'Enfant Station. It's not a very long trip measured in miles or time,
> provided one is not held up by a train on another route (see #2 below). By
> comparison, a much longer trip in Boston - from Wonderland to Mattapan,
> for example, on three different vehicles, over about 17 miles of track,
> would cost $2.00 round trip, with no distinction between peak and off-peak
> use. I also assume that most Washingtonians don't try to add just enough
> money for their fares as I did. I assume most people would slip a $20 bill
> into the machine and use the fare up until it was time to add more. The
> machines do take some getting used to. I cannot imagine some seniors I
> know trying to use an AddFare machine!
It's even more expensive if you realize that the fare is calculated based
on the most direct route. You were essentially being charged for two
Yellow Line trips (the shorter, more direct route).
Obviously people who live there and use the system regularly aren't going
to use Addfare machines (or, as they're now called, Exitfare machines) to
add the exact fare required very often. As you say, they'll put in a $20
bill (which also gets them a $2 bonus) and have those fares to use later.
>
> #2 - It's peculiar that Washington decided to overlap portions of routes
> the way they did. The Yellow Line shares parts of its tracks with Green
> trains and, in Virginia, with Blue trains. The Blue line overlaps with
> Orange and Yellow trains in places. Only the Red line has its tracks for
> itself. Thus, during our return trip, our Yellow train was delayed first
> by a Green train, and then, after the Potomac River bridge crossing, we
> were delayed again by a Blue train. I can only recall NYC and BART doing
> the same thing and I hear from relatives and friends in both cities all
> the time about delays and congestion (and have experienced myself) due to
> the practice.
I have always assumed this was in order to essentially minimize
construction costs. It does accomplish the objective of providing more
branches to outlying areas while keeping construction costs down in the
central portions of the region, where construction is more expensive. But
it does have the drawbacks you mention.
Stockholm's subway has many of the same problems, and they are for more or
less the same reason, although in an even more extreme form: many of our
subway lines are actually converted tram lines.
>
> #3 - Some of the station route maps are hard to read because of the shared
> routings. I'm partly color-blind; in the dim light of the underground
> stations (see #4) I could NOT perceive the little color dots showing which
> stations were served by which route[s].
Of course now you're not referring to the route maps, but more probably to
the station lists with fares, or to the station lists on the pylons on the
platforms. The route maps are backlighted and show each route in color.
But I understand your difficulty.
>
> #4 - The underground stations are quite dim, in my opinion.
Most people react this way. I lived in Washington for over four years, and
when I go back to visit, I always find that the stations are brighter than
I remember them being.
>
> #5 - The trains themselves are not laid out very well. They need 4 doors
> per side as on the Red Line in Boston and the former IND/BMT routes in
> NYC; three doors was inadequate. The trains are also excessively tapered
> from middle to roof, leading to a claustrophobic feeling. No trains in
> Boston, New York or Montreal (and various other cities I have travelled
> in) are as tapered as Washington's. I was almost reminded of the deep tube
> trains in London! And, finally, the stanchion poles are awkwardly placed
> and get in the way of passemgers entering and exiting the trains.
I've been saying for years that the main reason people tend to cluster
around the doors in Washington is that there aren't enough doors, so it's
easy to feel you may not be able to make it off at your stop.
>
> #6 - The trains and stations seemed very clean. The air quality
> underground was good. Platforms are wide and even. I didn't notice any
> grafitti, broken tiles, peeling paint, etc. Boston and New York, take
> notice!
>
> #7 - There is some sort of project underway to either repair or augment
> station canopies. I'm uncertain what this is all about - perhaps canopies
> are needed to protect escalators opening directly onto the street?
Exactly. In recent years, they've been having problems with maintaining
the escalators that are open to the elements. To solve this problem,
they're installing canopies over those escalators.
>
> #8 - Metro Center station IS impressive and I'm glad I finally got to see
> that double arch architecture. Published pictures make the interior arch
> appear much taller than it is, but it's still an interesting work. I read
> somewhere that many of the station arches were pre-fabricated to reduce
> costs, so I'm guessing that is one reason why so many stations appear the
> same. Still, when I ride in Boston and especially in cities like Montreal
> or Stockholm, I can just glance out the train window and know where I am.
> The stations all look different. The "lost gloves" at Porter Square
> (Boston), the stained glass murals and art work (Montreal) and classical
> ruins (Stockholm) make for interesting rides. It's a pity some art
> couldn't find its way onto the Washington Metro. I only rode a small
> portion of the Metro. Did I miss seeing art works? Are there plans to add
> any?
There's a little. Did you miss the mural over one of the exits from Metro
Center?
>
> #9 - Since ticketing is done by those AddFare machines, what exactly is
> the function of station attendants? Is every station attended during
> business hours, and, if so, doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of
> automating the ticketing?
Yes, every station is attended during service hours. No, IMO that doesn't
defeat the purpose of automating the ticketing. The station attendants are
available to answer questions about the system; one of the important
things they do is to help people who are unfamiliar with the system use
the farecard machines. My impression is that the Metro gets lots of
tourists who've never ridden a subway before anywhere at all. They need
all the help they can get. :-)
>
> All in all, an interesting ride. I wonder how gracefully the Metro will
> age. It's now a bit over 25 years old and it will be interesting to see
> what shape the infrastructure will be in when the system is 100 years old!
Aesthetically, it's already aged a hell of a lot better than BART, IMO.
John R Cambron
"Scott M. Kozel" wrote:
>
> John R Cambron <*camb...@chesapeake.net*> wrote:
> >
> > Ron Newman wrote:
> > > "Scott M. Kozel" <koz...@attbi.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > A non-railfan can easily notice the differences
> > >
> > > OK, let's suppose that you took all signs with words out of a WMATA
> > > station, blindfolded a rider, and took her to that stop. Would she be
> > > able to easily identify where she was?
> >
> > To the average rider, probably no in most cases. I can tell you
> > without a doubt I could do it.
> >
> > One of the comments I got from a form one of the people that sat
> > in on a slide show tour I did of phase II (National Airport (C11)
> > to Stadium-Armory (D08)) of the system back in 1975 was "Gee, all
> > the station look so much the same". I will also note these images
> > were taken during construction and none of the graphics had yet
> > been installed.
>
> Well, that was true as of Phase II... all the subway stations had the
> 22-coffer vault and all the surface stations had the gullwing canopy...
> correct?
There were only 2 surface stations on phase II, Arlington Cemetery
(C06) and National Airport (C10), National Airport has a gullwing.
the covered part of the platform in Arlington Cemetery is the
Memorial Drive overpass. No canapé.
> It was later lines that started differing the designs.
>
> > I can't and will not try to deny that there are a lot of people
> > that feel that most of the station look the same, and I have no
> > problem with that.
> >
> > But what I will tell you every station has many subtle differences
> > that on careful exploration will be revealed.
>
> I haven't mentioned the mezzanines. Some subway stations have a small
> mezzanine, and some have a long mezzanine. With the small, most of the
> view from the platform is that of the high vault; with the long, much of
> the platform is under the mezzanine and gives more of a "boxy" feel.
Beside having small or large mezzanines you also the location
of the placement mezzanine within the train hall; inbound end,
outbound end, mid train hall, offset near mid train hall. in the
case of Stadium-Armory (D08) you have two mezzanines one on the
inbound end in the train hall and one on the outbound end beyond
the end wall on the train hall
John R Cambron
wrob wrote:
>
> Judiciary Square -- the only perfectly symmetrical
> station in the entire system, to my knowledge --
> even the elevators are directly diagonal features
> in the circular Law Enforcment Memorial plaza and
> are done up in brushed steel instead of brown.
Dupont Circle (A03) is symmetrical as well as McPherson
Square (C02) and to a lesser extent Farragut West (C03)
The surface elevator entrances were originally bronze.
Scott M. Kozel
>
> "Scott M. Kozel" wrote:
> > John R Cambron <*camb...@chesapeake.net*> wrote:
> >
> > > To the average rider, probably no in most cases. I can tell you
> > > without a doubt I could do it.
> > >
> > > One of the comments I got from a form one of the people that sat
> > > in on a slide show tour I did of phase II (National Airport (C11)
> > > to Stadium-Armory (D08)) of the system back in 1975 was "Gee, all
> > > the station look so much the same". I will also note these images
> > > were taken during construction and none of the graphics had yet
> > > been installed.
> >
> > Well, that was true as of Phase II... all the subway stations had the
> > 22-coffer vault and all the surface stations had the gullwing canopy...
> > correct?
>
> There were only 2 surface stations on phase II, Arlington Cemetery
> (C06) and National Airport (C10), National Airport has a gullwing.
> the covered part of the platform in Arlington Cemetery is the
> Memorial Drive overpass. No canapé.
I was including Phase I and Phase IA in my "as of Phase II". That would
include the Red Line from Dupont Circle to Rhode Island Avenue (R.I.
being surface).
> > I haven't mentioned the mezzanines. Some subway stations have a small
> > mezzanine, and some have a long mezzanine. With the small, most of the
> > view from the platform is that of the high vault; with the long, much of
> > the platform is under the mezzanine and gives more of a "boxy" feel.
>
> Beside having small or large mezzanines you also the location
> of the placement mezzanine within the train hall; inbound end,
> outbound end, mid train hall, offset near mid train hall. in the
> case of Stadium-Armory (D08) you have two mezzanines one on the
> inbound end in the train hall and one on the outbound end beyond
> the end wall on the train hall
Yep, more variations.
John R Cambron
Exile on Market Street wrote:
>
> Access Systems wrote:
> > In misc.transport.urban-transit Steven M. Paris <spa...@world.std.com> wrote:
> >
> >>#6 - The trains and stations seemed very clean. The air quality underground
> >
> > one of the very few airconditioned subways
>
> The *stations* are air-conditioned?
>
> Or is it just forced ventilation (fan-assisted)?
>
> I'd be very surprised if it were the former.
Quoting from my other post in this thread;
"All of the station in subway are air conditioned, well not really,
more like dehumidified. At any rate the air conditioning system
filters the air in the stations."
Each station has an air conditioned system similar to what you
would find in a office building, hotel or large arena.
The system consists of a common cooling tower and chillier plant
with multiple air exchangers in each station. In some
instalations the cooling tower and chillier plant serves more then
one station. Examples would be the cooling tower and chillier
plant on the roof of the WMATA headquarters serves Gallery Place
(B01, F01) and Judiciary Square (B02); Farragut North (A02) and
Dupont Circle (A03) have a common cooling tower and chillier
plant; McPherson Square (C02), Farragut West (C03) and Foggy
Bottom (C04) share a common cooling tower and chillier plant.
Kevin Lagasse
> On Thu, 22 May 2003 22:35:27 -0400, Ron Newman wrote:
>
> > In article <5df048ff.03052...@posting.google.com>,
> > KML...@AOL.COM (Kevin Lagasse) wrote:
> >
> >> Were you there for a daytrip? Usually, when I visit Washington DC, I'll
> >> pay $5 and buy a one-day pass. It saves the hassle of dealing with
> >> Metro's Exitfare machines. Just don't lose the pass under any
> >> circumstances! I did just that on my first encounter with Metro in
> >> 1996. The guard on duty wanted to know where I had entered and then
> >> directed me to the Exitfare machine.
> >
> > And what exactly were you supposed to do at the Exitfare machine, since
> > you didn't have a pass or a ticket to feed it?
>
> If you're inside the paid area (where the Exitfare machines are) and you
> don't have a farecard or a pass, then by definition you've entered
> illegally and should be fined.
>
> I suspect Kevin didn't tell us all the details of his story.
I explained to the guard on duty that this was my first time ever
using Metro. I showed him my Amtrak ticket (there for a day trip) and
Connecticut state ID as well (meaning I was 350 miles from home). I
then told him where I had gotten on (Rosslyn) and had lost the pass
while waiting for the train. He let me go and had me pay the Exitfare.
Nothing of incident had happened and basically reminded me not to let
it happen again. Whew! (This all happened in September of 1996.)
(BTW, I had to get a background check for a recent job interview here
in Connecticut. The check came up with a clean record.)
John Mara
"Tim Kynerd" <tky...@spamcop.net> wrote
> Except that WMATA's machines won't give more than $4.95 in change. You'll
> simply have to accept the fact that the rest of your money is locked into
> a farecard...and learn to check the balance on your farecard before you
> take a ride in the future.
Fare cards are good forever. I always just buy a $10 or $20 fare card. I
think Metro could do a better job of explaining to tourists that you don't
need to figure out the fare. Just buy a card for a round number amount.
I have one with $7.05 on it from a trip to Washington 3 years ago. I just
have to remember to take it with me the next time I go to Washington.
John Mara
Tim Kynerd
Lots of people (visitors, that is) probably don't like the idea of having
some of their hard-earned vacation money locked up in a farecard that
won't be of any use to them once they get home. Especially if they're near
the end of their trip and probably won't be taking all that many more
trips on the Metro.
Like you, I have a farecard here somewhere. However, because I like new
technology so much, I actually (as I posted separately) have a WMATA
SmarTrip card in my wallet that has a couple of dollars on it. That's nice
because it's more durable than a farecard; the next time I'm in DC, I'll
just put some more money on it and go. :-)
--
Tim Kynerd Sundbyberg (småstan i storstan), Sweden tky...@spamcop.net
Sunrise in Stockholm today: 4:02
Sunset in Stockholm today: 21:26
Hank Fung
>
>> In article <5df048ff.03052...@posting.google.com>,
>> KML...@AOL.COM (Kevin Lagasse) wrote:
>>
>>> Were you there for a daytrip? Usually, when I visit Washington DC, I'll
>>> pay $5 and buy a one-day pass. It saves the hassle of dealing with
>>> Metro's Exitfare machines. Just don't lose the pass under any
>>> circumstances! I did just that on my first encounter with Metro in
>>> 1996. The guard on duty wanted to know where I had entered and then
>>> directed me to the Exitfare machine.
>>
>> And what exactly were you supposed to do at the Exitfare machine, since
>> you didn't have a pass or a ticket to feed it?
>
>If you're inside the paid area (where the Exitfare machines are) and you
>don't have a farecard or a pass, then by definition you've entered
>illegally and should be fined.
On BART (similar to WMATA Metrorail in design), passengers that lose their
ticket are held hostage until they pay the "excursion" fare (which is very
close, but not quite, the maximum fare). They even had a sign at Bay Point
(the furthest station on the system, some 40+ miles from the start of the
line at Colma, saying that the fare can be paid at any station, which
presumes that they mean business.
--
Hank Fung fun...@ocf.berkeley.edu
Go Bears! http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~fungus
David Lesher
>#1 - It's VERY expensive. The trip cost $3.45 round-trip for a relatively
>short ride. The Blue Line ride is 13 stops. The Yellow Line ride is 7 stops
>plus an additional stop on a Blue or Orange train from Smithsonian to
>L'Enfant Station.
Compared to parking, it's not.
Compared to parking and Hair Club for Men if you drive during Rush
Hour [evening rush is ~3pm-7pm.]; it's cheap.
>#5 - The trains themselves are not laid out very well. They need 4 doors per
>side as on the Red Line in Boston and the former IND/BMT routes in NYC;
>three doors was inadequate. The trains are also excessively tapered from
>middle to roof, leading to a claustrophobic feeling. No trains in Boston,
>New York or Montreal (and various other cities I have travelled in) are as
>tapered as Washington's. I was almost reminded of the deep tube trains in
>London! And, finally, the stanchion poles are awkwardly placed and get in
>the way of passemgers entering and exiting the trains.
The poles are stupidly ENCOURAGING people to cluster by the doors...
>#6 - The trains and stations seemed very clean. The air quality underground
>was good. Platforms are wide and even. I didn't notice any grafitti, broken
>tiles, peeling paint, etc. Boston and New York, take notice!
That's one of the things the no food, no smoking enforcement brings.
And THAT's why there is a station attendant on each gate.
>#7 - There is some sort of project underway to either repair or augment
>station canopies. I'm uncertain what this is all about - perhaps canopies
>are needed to protect escalators opening directly onto the street?
Alas yes. Saving escalator $$'s but spoiling the [for example] spectacular
DuPont Circle view as you emerge.
David Lesher
>Try taking it in from Franconia-Springfield where it's $3.45 ONE WAY and
>takes about 50 minutes to an hour to go anywhere in DC. The fact is, there
>are a lot of wealthy people in the suburbs of DC (and in DC itself, but the
>wealthiest parts of DC are either not on the Metro line or so close to
>downtown that Metro is not needed.) As for me, I don't understand why
>Alexandria gets shafted, since I live equally far from DC in Takoma Park,
>and fares are just about $1.10 one way to ANY point in the DC city limits.
Because fares reflect local tax support, and MD pays more than VA does.
Ergo, MD riders {really MD exit'er and entrance'ers..} pay less.
David Lesher
>> Actually you will find significant variation in subway station
>> design.
>If the differences are there they are very subtle. Not nearly enough to
>let a passenger look out the window and immediately know what station
>she has arrived at.
I do it daily on the Red Line.
David Lesher
>The *stations* are air-conditioned?
Air-conditioned. They take many tons of humidity out every summer
day.
wrob
the Memorial Drive overpass (Memorial Bridge Extended), which is
very wide (it includes 16-foot sidewalks and landscaping.)
I could be wrong -- I rarely go by that way...
I do not understand why the Feds were willing to pay for an
Arlington Cemetery stop (considering Tourmobile serves it
much better) and not pay for a Wolf Trap Farm Park stop.
Wolf Trap is right off the Dulles Toll Road.
Mark wrote:
> Correct me if I'm wrong---but I don't think the Arlington Cemetary Station,
> which was part of Phase II has the gull wing.
>
> Mark
Mountain Maryland
Franconia is a lot further away than Takoma---I don't think it's Alexandria
getting screwed, it's just based on the distance from Franconia---I'll bet
that if you went to a station closer in, say, Braddock Road---you'd see more
similarities than differences in the fare structure when ccompared to
Takoma.
Mark
"David Lesher" <wb8...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:bb1k2p$ak1$2...@reader1.panix.com...
wrob
> The system consists of a common cooling tower and chillier plant
> with multiple air exchangers in each station. In some
> instalations the cooling tower and chillier plant serves more then
> one station. Examples would be the cooling tower and chillier
> plant on the roof of the WMATA headquarters serves Gallery Place
> (B01, F01) and Judiciary Square (B02); Farragut North (A02) and
> Dupont Circle (A03) have a common cooling tower and chillier
> plant; McPherson Square (C02), Farragut West (C03) and Foggy
> Bottom (C04) share a common cooling tower and chillier plant.
Under the street? Is that what they use the space above the
three-track section under Connecticut for?
-BER
wrob
> wrob wrote:
> >
> > Judiciary Square -- the only perfectly symmetrical
> > station in the entire system, to my knowledge --
> > even the elevators are directly diagonal features
> > in the circular Law Enforcment Memorial plaza and
> > are done up in brushed steel instead of brown.
>
> Dupont Circle (A03) is symmetrical as well as McPherson
> Square (C02) and to a lesser extent Farragut West (C03)
>
> The surface elevator entrances were originally bronze.
Ah, but only Judicurary Squayuh has polar-symmetrical
layout of mezzanines, escalators AND elevators!!
How could any layman miss all this uniqueness is beyond me.
-BER
wrob
> On Thu, 22 May 2003 13:48:01 +0000, Scott M. Kozel wrote:
>
> > Ron Newman <rne...@thecia.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> John R Cambron <*camb...@chesapeake.net*> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Actually you will find significant variation in subway station design.
> >>
> >> If the differences are there they are very subtle. Not nearly enough to
> >> let a passenger look out the window and immediately know what station
> >> she has arrived at.
> >
> > I agree with John about the "significant variation". The differences
> > between the 22-coffer, the 6-coffer, and the 4-coffer designs, is
> > substantial, and is visible from inside the train, and is quite visible
> > from the platform.
> >
> > Also, there are three two-level 4-way transfer subway stations (Metro
> > Center, Gallery Place, L'Enfant Plaza) and there are two split-level 3-way
> > transfer subway stations (Pentagon, Rosslyn).
> >
> > Then, there are special design subway stations like Anacostia, the lower
> > level of Fort Totten, and Forest Glen (each very different).
>
> And my favorite, Prince George's Plaza.
>
> Still, I agree that the variation is not sufficient to make it useful for
> orientation purposes.
Just having visited NYC (and in reply to a similar conversation long ago)
I must say it isn't sufficient there, either.
At least not on a line-by-line basis... So there.
To my mind, "unique identifying features" in subways are more than
usually unintentional, like bad art or various stages of water damage.
-Brian
wrob
The graffiti on the outdoor stations helps.
(no really, I like it! They wrote a chapter of a book about it!
It's at the bookshop of the National Building Museum.)
-BER
John R Cambron
The chillier room is under the street just north of DeSales
Street above the pocket track. The cooling tower is on top
of the office building on the northeast corner of Connecticut
Avenue and L Street. The traction powers substation is on the
same level between chillier room and the north entrance
mezzanine.
John R Cambron
Mountain Maryland wrote:
>
> Also,
>
> Franconia is a lot further away than Takoma---I don't think it's Alexandria
> getting screwed, it's just based on the distance from Franconia---I'll bet
> that if you went to a station closer in, say, Braddock Road---you'd see more
> similarities than differences in the fare structure when ccompared to
> Takoma.
Hay Mark. welcome to USNET. If you do a google search at:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=misc.transport.urban-transit
Using WMATA as your key word you will find all kind of intersting stuff.
Jason McHuff
...
> I do not understand why the Feds were willing to pay for an
> Arlington Cemetery stop (considering Tourmobile serves it
> much better) and not pay for a Wolf Trap Farm Park stop.
> Wolf Trap is right off the Dulles Toll Road.
Probably because the cemetery is a federal property, unlike the farm
park. And, as has been mentioned in this thread, many tourists do use
the Metro to get around. Oh, and it's not THAT far to walk (or does
Tourmobile go thru the cemetery?). However, the station has been
called "in the middle of nowhere".
In fact, on my school trip to DC we went in groups and one of them
started their (1) Metro ride there. In addition, we had to walk past
the station to get back to our bus. I can still remember walking by
that group as they got their what-to-do Metro lecture. I was suprised
(earlier) that a Metro ride (Federal Triange--using an entrence hidden
from the street, which added to the suprise--to Rosliyn) was one of
the things we got to do.
Bottom line is that (I think) the cemetery stop was paid for by the
Feds who manage the cemetery, not the Feds who usually pay for transit
projects.
Jason McHuff
> "Scott M. Kozel" wrote:
...
> But most of the DESTINATION and TRANSFER stations are very
> distinctive! I can't understand why anyone would want, say
> the Potomac Yard or Ballston stations all tricked-up. We're
> talking intermediate origin stations, not so much major
> daytime destination points.
>
great lesser-used stations would be wasteful.
...
> Consider the major stations:
>
> Metro Center -- very famous cathedral-style layout.
Just don't see it during of rush hour.
>
> Gallery Place -- huge 3-level mezzanine distribution
> system square in the middle of the crossing
> point ...
Sounds impressive.
...
> Rosslyn, Pentagon -- matching split-level stations with
> deep escalators to surface in the case of Rosslyn.
Ohh, I my group's ride got off at Rosslyn. I remember the escalator
length a little bit, but not really the split-level.
>
> Archives -- standard, but whitewashed -- very obvious.
> Hard to miss single entryway on Penna. Ave.
>
Just like at Federal Triangle, where we go on (it was in a building).
At least Metro has pylons.
> Mount Vernon/Convention Center -- standard 4-coffer arch
> design but extremely grotty due to water damage from
> convention center, unlike all other stations on the line.
>
What did the conv. center do? Sad because just about all of the other
stations are very clean.
> Federal Triangle -- standard but lone entryway is unique -- it has
> stepped escalators and two exit levels, one into the
> Reagan building atrium and one into the loggia of the FTC.
> The atrium level was fenced off, leading to parts unknown,
> for 20 years.
>
Don't remember the stepped escalators, but I do remember that the
enternce goes into a building (loggia?). The Regan building was under
construction when I was there.
> Smithsonian, Federal Center SW -- not important destination points
> for non-tourists, so they get the standard undistinguishable
> treatment. :-p
>
But what about the esclator that goes out onto the national mall?
...
wrob
> > But most of the DESTINATION and TRANSFER stations are very
> > distinctive! I can't understand why anyone would want, say
> > the Potomac Yard or Ballston stations all tricked-up. We're
> > talking intermediate origin stations, not so much major
> > daytime destination points.
> >
> Doesn't transfer=(at least intermediate) destination?
> Agreed that great lesser-used stations would be wasteful.
>
> ...
> > Consider the major stations:
> >
> > Metro Center -- very famous cathedral-style layout.
>
> Just don't see it during of rush hour.
Nope.
> > Gallery Place -- huge 3-level mezzanine distribution
> > system square in the middle of the crossing
> > point ...
>
> Sounds impressive.
It's kinda ugly, but the view from the top level is cool.
The upper platform level falls off to the south, where
you have a little-used extension of the south Yellow Line
transept and the entire vault (4-5 stories) is visible
from the lower-level Yellow/Green line tracks. Big wall
where they could use some big art. The southern entrance
is right off the top level undre the crossing point and
got moved down to F Street as part of the MCI Center
basement level. That's why there's no southern mezzanine.
The giant Chinatown "peacock fan" at the opposite end of
the vault (H Street entrance) is tacky, like most of Chinatown
but thankfully being removed, unlike the giant fake Chinese
pagoda beingbuilt as a canopy over the entrance as part of
the "sports-themed entertainment destination" Gallery Place,
a mall which was planned to replace Chinatown decades ago.
> > Rosslyn, Pentagon -- matching split-level stations with
> > deep escalators to surface in the case of Rosslyn.
>
> Ohh, I my group's ride got off at Rosslyn. I remember the
> escalator length a little bit, but not really the split-level.
It's hard to see from the lower (inbound) level which just feels
claustrophobic. (The foundation for the upper level platform/tracks
is treated as a blank concrete wall.)
> > Archives -- standard, but whitewashed -- very obvious.
> > Hard to miss single entryway on Penna. Ave.
> >
> Just like at Federal Triangle, where we go on (it was in a building).
> At least Metro has pylons.
It's easy to remember location of the Archives stop, it's at the
intersection of 6 streets and a plaza. Nice marble "wave wall"
inside, instead of the usual concrete.
> > Mount Vernon/Convention Center -- standard 4-coffer arch
> > design but extremely grotty due to water damage from
> > convention center, unlike all other stations on the line.
> >
> What did the conv. center do? Sad because just about all of the other
> stations are very clean.
They built a giant bathtub right next to it because most of the new
center is underground. Also tore up the (10 years old) station to
enlarge the entryway and restricted access to an elevator. Current
residents (mostly poor, subsidized tenants whose apartments are sure
to be displaced by the suburban congregation that urban-renewed 7th St
after the 68 riots) interests were ignored.
> > Federal Triangle -- standard but lone entryway is unique -- it has
> > stepped escalators and two exit levels, one into the
> > Reagan building atrium and one into the loggia of the FTC.
> > The atrium level was fenced off, leading to parts unknown,
> > for 20 years.
> >
> Don't remember the stepped escalators, but I do remember that the
> enternce goes into a building (loggia?). The Regan building was under
> construction when I was there.
The gigantic porticos and outdoor walkways of the Fed Triangle and
Union Station buildings are sometimes known as loggia (a series of
concrete vaulted classical arches). The atruim level went unnoticed
by most people, who assumed it was an entirely new passageway, but
it goes into a large underground eatery area under the plaza behind
the station, similar to the National Gallery concourse.
> > Smithsonian, Federal Center SW -- not important destination points
> > for non-tourists, so they get the standard undistinguishable
> > treatment. :-p
> >
> But what about the esclator that goes out onto the national mall?
Hard to find, surrounded by trash trees, touts, and ticky-tacky
souvenir stands, and woefully under-capacity to the point that
they actually close it on 4th of July -- and not for security
reasons, just to disperse crowds to better-designed entrances.
Of course, NYC has 3-foot staircase entryways in Lower Manhattan...
-BER
Ron Newman
> I do not understand why the Feds were willing to pay for an
> Arlington Cemetery stop (considering Tourmobile serves it
> much better) and not pay for a Wolf Trap Farm Park stop.
> Wolf Trap is right off the Dulles Toll Road.
Presumably a WMATA line would have passed by the cemetery whether or not
a station was built there? I don't think any current WMATA line passes
by Wolf Trap.
wrob
Wolf Trap is bisected by the Dulles Toll Road. Haven't you heard...?
Ron Newman
Are there any WMATA stations along that road?
wrob
I've only been posting on the subject for 3 years... :-/
The Dulles Rail project is one of the most expensive,
high-priority transit projects in the nation. Of course,
under the Bush Administration and Virginia's republican
leadership it has been continually battled against with
plans and attempts to scale it back into bus rapid transit,
as well as highly damaging reductions in planned service to
Tysons Corner, an enormous shopping and office district.
With planned stations there reduced from six to four, and
no effort to place a station at Wolf Trap despite the
absence of intervening stations on the Dulles Toll Road
until you get five miles outside the Beltway:
http://www.dullestransit.com (official site)
I would not be surprised if Bush Administration vetoed the
$4 billion project at the 11th hour as a snub to embattled
Democratic Gov. Mark Warner (who hails from the tech parks
of Northern VA). In doing so the Republicans would be losing
Fairfax County for a long time, however.
-BER
Mountain Maryland
You are a true friend---
thanks, man,
Mark
"John R Cambron" <*camb...@chesapeake.net*> wrote in message
news:vdg5rnr...@corp.supernews.com...
John R Cambron
Actually one of the early plans did not have a line running between
Rosslyn (C05) Pentagon (C07). It was added when it was discovered
there would be trips between southern Farfax County and Alexandria
and the K Street business district.
Jason McHuff
> They built a giant bathtub right next to it because most of the new
> center is underground. Also tore up the (10 years old) station to
> enlarge the entryway and restricted access to an elevator. Current
> residents (mostly poor, subsidized tenants whose apartments are sure
> to be displaced by the suburban congregation that urban-renewed 7th St
> after the 68 riots) interests were ignored.
>
I remember reading about the station remodel.
...
> The gigantic porticos and outdoor walkways of the Fed Triangle and
> Union Station buildings are sometimes known as loggia (a series of
> concrete vaulted classical arches). The atruim level went unnoticed
> by most people, who assumed it was an entirely new passageway, but
> it goes into a large underground eatery area under the plaza behind
> the station, similar to the National Gallery concourse.
>
enterence) being like you describe. I didn't get to see the atruim
level.
> > > Smithsonian, Federal Center SW -- not important destination points
> > > for non-tourists, so they get the standard undistinguishable
> > > treatment. :-p
> > >
> > But what about the esclator that goes out onto the national mall?
>
> Hard to find, surrounded by trash trees, touts, and ticky-tacky
> souvenir stands, and woefully under-capacity to the point that
> they actually close it on 4th of July -- and not for security
> reasons, just to disperse crowds to better-designed entrances.
>
I've never seen it; I've only taken the one trip on Metro. I have
always thought that it would be a great DC intro for a visitor. It
doesn't really matter, tho, because it was talking about non-tourist
destinations (I thought I caught that).
...
--Jason McHuff, CONTROL ATTRACTION: Oregon State Capitol
wrob
> > > But what about the esclator that goes out onto the national mall?
> >
> > Hard to find, surrounded by trash trees, touts, and ticky-tacky
> > souvenir stands, and woefully under-capacity to the point that
> > they actually close it on 4th of July -- and not for security
> > reasons, just to disperse crowds to better-designed entrances.
> >
> I've never seen it; I've only taken the one trip on Metro. I have
> always thought that it would be a great DC intro for a visitor. It
> doesn't really matter, tho, because it was talking about non-tourist
> destinations (I thought I caught that).
In the original design they were going to have the Mall escalator
come right up in the middle of the mall, facing the Capitol. The
architect (guy who designed the whole system) even wanted to put a
skylight in the roof of the station hall so you could see the
Washington Monument from inside the station!
It was vetoed as too over-the-top, so they located the entrance
in a grove near the musical carousel.
-BER
John R Cambron
wrob wrote:
>
> Jason McHuff wrote:
>
> > > > But what about the esclator that goes out onto the national mall?
> > >
> > > Hard to find, surrounded by trash trees, touts, and ticky-tacky
> > > souvenir stands, and woefully under-capacity to the point that
> > > they actually close it on 4th of July -- and not for security
> > > reasons, just to disperse crowds to better-designed entrances.
Actually The Mall entrance to the Smithsonian station is located
at the southwest corner of 12th Street and Adams Drive SW. Adams
Drive SW and Washington Drive NW are the two gravel walking paths
on either side of the open grass areas of the of the National Mall
that run from 14th Street to 3rd Street.
> > I've never seen it; I've only taken the one trip on Metro. I have
> > always thought that it would be a great DC intro for a visitor. It
> > doesn't really matter, tho, because it was talking about non-tourist
> > destinations (I thought I caught that).
>
> In the original design they were going to have the Mall escalator
> come right up in the middle of the mall, facing the Capitol. The
> architect (guy who designed the whole system) even wanted to put a
> skylight in the roof of the station hall so you could see the
> Washington Monument from inside the station!
>
> It was vetoed as too over-the-top, so they located the entrance
> in a grove near the musical carousel.
Brian,
I have heard some wild stories about some of the concepts that
were personally proposed by Harry Weese, but I have never heard
this one.
wrob
Check out Zach Schrag's website for more info.
BTW, on the subject of Wolf Trap mysteriously not getting a station,
I would draw (and another person has already pointed it out; I will
forward Mark's note) a parallel with the Georgetown Metro fiasco
to illustrate how, sometimes political clout is so powerful that
there does not even NEED to be a debate about whether it's too
costly or too environmentally sensitive to proceed.
If Georgetown had wanted a Metro stop as badly as they do now,
they would have gotten one, the same way Metro has no problems
engineering a bored-tunnel Key Bridge connection today, cf. the
"New Blue Line" proposal.
There's stuff on this at Zachary Schrag's Metro website, too.
-Brian R.
John R Cambron
I have a page from the DEIS that shows provision for a future
station at Wolf Trap.
The section of the line at the location of the future Wolf Trap
station is on a roughly 3% grade. The future station is configured
to be a twin platform station in a 600' section of 0.35% grade on
a retained fill with steeper grades on both ends of the future
stationm, west of future station 3.73% grade, east of future station
3.15% grade. The center of the platforms will be roughly 725' west
of the Wolf Trap Road overpass.
> If Georgetown had wanted a Metro stop as badly as they do now,
> they would have gotten one, the same way Metro has no problems
> engineering a bored-tunnel Key Bridge connection today, cf. the
> "New Blue Line" proposal.
>
> There's stuff on this at Zachary Schrag's Metro website, too.
>
> http://chnm.gmu.edu/metro/
>
> -Brian R.
--
wrob
Noise? Who are they trying to kid? There wouldn't be any more noise than
what they're already getting from the highway---It just sounds as though
they're pulling a "georgetown". In other words, the area is afraid of
letting "outsiders" in.
Personally, I think it's a bunch of bull. Having a station there would
probably lift attendance to record levels---even if was only open during
events--kinda like the Hamburg St. Light Rail station in Baltimore...the
station is adjacent to the Ravens stadium and is only open during events
held at the stadium.
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "wrob" <wr...@erols.com>
To: "Mark" <ther...@hereintown.net>
Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 12:21 AM
Subject: Re: Washington Metro Trip
>>> If I remember correctly, Arlington Cemetery's canopy consists of
>>> the Memorial Drive overpass (Memorial Bridge Extended), which is
>>> very wide (it includes 16-foot sidewalks and landscaping.)
>>>
>>> I could be wrong -- I rarely go by that way...
>>>
>>> I do not understand why the Feds were willing to pay for an
>>> Arlington Cemetery stop (considering Tourmobile serves it
>>> much better) and not pay for a Wolf Trap Farm Park stop.
>>> Wolf Trap is right off the Dulles Toll Road.
> Mark wrote:
>
> > wrob...
> >
> > In my own opinion, the biggest difference between the two is that Wolf Trap
> > isn't a federally owned property---I look at it as being similar to
> > Merriwether Post
> > in Columbia---also, it doesn't have the true stature of Arlington
> > Memorial----The Cemetary station was created for those that wanted to make
> > it an actual destination without having to get seats on the tour and have
> > to ride around just to get to a more specific point.
> >
> > Sound logical to you?
> >
> > Let me know,
> >
> > Mark
>
> Well, I guess, it is a National Farm Park for the Performing Arts,
> whatever that means. I heard the Wolfies were concerned about noise,
> does that make sense to you? I'd think this would be a golden
> opportunity to deck over the intervening freeway, or something...
>
> -BER
Michael Moroney
>> they would have gotten one, the same way Metro has no problems
>> engineering a bored-tunnel Key Bridge connection today, cf. the
>> "New Blue Line" proposal.
What is the story behind the lack of a Georgetown stop? I always
thought it odd that there was a long stretch on the Red Line between
where it crosses the Potomac and the next station (Foggy Bottom?) and
later heard it was NIMBYed out of existence. Now they want a station?
They didn't make provisions for a possible future station?
--
-Mike
wrob
Anyone who says it would have been physically impractical is mistaken,
since WMATA engineering division NOW has plans on the books as of 2001
showing exactly that, a shallow 90 degree curve on the far side of the
Key Bridge coming out of Rosslyn northbound and proceeding east on
M Street in Georgetown/Downtown on which the "Blue Line" (not Red)
would travel, instead of sharing with the current Orange Line tracks
through Foggy Bottom.
Had this route been used originally, tracks could have gone down
Pennsylvania Avenue to Eye St. under which the current Orange/Blue
line tracks run through downtown. Foggy Bottom station would then
be located a block north of its present location, under Washington
Circle parallel to Pennsylvania Ave (similar to Dupont Circle station
on the Connecticut Ave. Red Line).
The impetus for this routing is really the potential for
extending it into Maryland from both directions, i.e. creating a
3-way "T" interchange near Georgetown University with one leg
being under M Street, one under the Potomac going south into
Rosslyn station, and one under 38th (?) street going north into
Wisconsin Avenue and the currently-unserved Cathedral area.
Unfortunately the plan that was originally proposed by Harry Weese
for a possible Georgetown stop would have been a shallow curve
under what is now the historic Georgetown waterfront, instead of
departing M Street west of the Key Bridge interchange where there
is very little waterfront development.
The New Blue Line plans have since been shelved for budget & political
reasons, (Arlington's representative on the Metro Board is a vociferous
critic of heavy rail and favors light rail and busses)
...much to the consternation of Georgetown which vociferously opposes
the light rail alternative and ironically favors (perhaps promulgated)
the New Blue line idea instead.
-BER
Keith F. Lynch
> If the differences are there they are very subtle. Not nearly
> enough to let a passenger look out the window and immediately know
> what station she has arrived at.
David Lesher <wb8...@nrk.com> wrote:
> I do it daily on the Red Line.
And I, on the Orange, even without my glasses. For instance the West
Falls Church station has large square columns. The next station, Dunn
Loring, does not.
--
Keith F. Lynch - k...@keithlynch.net - http://keithlynch.net/
I always welcome replies to my e-mail, postings, and web pages, but
unsolicited bulk e-mail (spam) is not acceptable. Please do not send me
HTML, "rich text," or attachments, as all such email is discarded unread.
Thomas Smith
"Steven M. Paris" <spa...@world.std.com> wrote in message
news:bae3rp$3gq$1...@pcls4.std.com...
> I recently had the opportunity to ride the Washington Metro for the first
> time. We travelled roundtrip from King Street (located in Alexandria,
> Virginia) to Smithsonian Station (on the Mall in Washington, D.C.) using a
> Blue Line train inbound (at an off-peak hour) and a Yellow Line train
> outbound (peak hour and transferring at L'Enfant Plaza Station). Here are
> some observations:
>
> #1 - It's VERY expensive. The trip cost $3.45 round-trip for a relatively
> short ride. The Blue Line ride is 13 stops. The Yellow Line ride is 7
stops
> plus an additional stop on a Blue or Orange train from Smithsonian to
> L'Enfant Station. It's not a very long trip measured in miles or time,
> provided one is not held up by a train on another route (see #2 below). By
> comparison, a much longer trip in Boston - from Wonderland to Mattapan,
for
> example, on three different vehicles, over about 17 miles of track, would
> cost $2.00 round trip, with no distinction between peak and off-peak use.
I
> also assume that most Washingtonians don't try to add just enough money
for
> their fares as I did. I assume most people would slip a $20 bill into the
> machine and use the fare up until it was time to add more. The machines do
> take some getting used to. I cannot imagine some seniors I know trying to
> use an AddFare machine!
>
They have a $5 one-day pass which is valid weekends, holidays, and weekdays
after 9:30 am which is good for unlimited Metro rides all day. If you are
going to be there for a week, get the $25 7-day pass which is good for
unlimited Metro rides for seven days after it is first used.
> #2 - It's peculiar that Washington decided to overlap portions of routes
the
> way they did. The Yellow Line shares parts of its tracks with Green trains
> and, in Virginia, with Blue trains. The Blue line overlaps with Orange and
> Yellow trains in places. Only the Red line has its tracks for itself.
Thus,
> during our return trip, our Yellow train was delayed first by a Green
train,
> and then, after the Potomac River bridge crossing, we were delayed again
by
> a Blue train. I can only recall NYC and BART doing the same thing and I
hear
> from relatives and friends in both cities all the time about delays and
> congestion (and have experienced myself) due to the practice.
>
This is useful, though, in creating a high-frequency area in the downtown
area without confusing short trips. The Red Line is the only line with
"short trip" trains.
> #3 - Some of the station route maps are hard to read because of the shared
> routings. I'm partly color-blind; in the dim light of the underground
> stations (see #4) I could NOT perceive the little color dots showing which
> stations were served by which route[s].
>
One way around this is to use line ends as your route names instead of
colors. For example, the Green Line is also the Greenbelt/Branch Avenue
Line. The Blue Line is the Franconia-Springfield/Addison Road Line. The
only problem with this is the Red Line because some of its trains are "short
trip" trains from Grosvenor to Silver Springs instead of the full Shady
Grove to Glenmont route.
Also, you could get a pocket map that types out the color names.
> #4 - The underground stations are quite dim, in my opinion.
>
No argument from me there, but it was bright enough to read (at least a
little). However, the lighting does not produce any shadows and glare is
minimal.
> #5 - The trains themselves are not laid out very well. They need 4 doors
per
> side as on the Red Line in Boston and the former IND/BMT routes in NYC;
> three doors was inadequate. The trains are also excessively tapered from
> middle to roof, leading to a claustrophobic feeling. No trains in Boston,
> New York or Montreal (and various other cities I have travelled in) are as
> tapered as Washington's. I was almost reminded of the deep tube trains in
> London! And, finally, the stanchion poles are awkwardly placed and get in
> the way of passemgers entering and exiting the trains.
>
The trains are designed to be attractive to suburban commuters. That means
more forward/backward facing seats (as compared to sideways seats) and fewer
doors. The newer trains have better placed polls.
> #6 - The trains and stations seemed very clean. The air quality
underground
> was good. Platforms are wide and even. I didn't notice any grafitti,
broken
> tiles, peeling paint, etc. Boston and New York, take notice!
>
The stations are designed to be very low-maintainance. There is no peeling
paint or broken tiles because there is no paint to peel or tiles to break.
They also attack grafitti immediately. The air quality is good, and I am
also wondering if they filter for biological or chemical agents that a
terrorist would use like the sarin gas attack in Tokyo back in 1995.
> #7 - There is some sort of project underway to either repair or augment
> station canopies. I'm uncertain what this is all about - perhaps canopies
> are needed to protect escalators opening directly onto the street?
>
Every station has an escolator. When the system was built, they decided
that no canopies were needed. Due to exposure to the elements and lack of
maintance, the escolators began breaking down. Some of these escolators are
quite long so having people climb them on a regular basis was politically
undesirable (expecially in a town that is politically sensative to
EVERYTHING!) so they decided to install canopies.
> #8 - Metro Center station IS impressive and I'm glad I finally got to see
> that double arch architecture. Published pictures make the interior arch
> appear much taller than it is, but it's still an interesting work. I read
> somewhere that many of the station arches were pre-fabricated to reduce
> costs, so I'm guessing that is one reason why so many stations appear the
> same. Still, when I ride in Boston and especially in cities like Montreal
or
> Stockholm, I can just glance out the train window and know where I am. The
> stations all look different. The "lost gloves" at Porter Square (Boston),
> the stained glass murals and art work (Montreal) and classical ruins
> (Stockholm) make for interesting rides. It's a pity some art couldn't find
> its way onto the Washington Metro. I only rode a small portion of the
Metro.
> Did I miss seeing art works? Are there plans to add any?
>
The uniform design of the stations did save construction costs. I really
wasn't that impressed with Metro Center Station. It is just another station
IMHO.
> #9 - Since ticketing is done by those AddFare machines, what exactly is
the
> function of station attendants? Is every station attended during business
> hours, and, if so, doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of automating the
> ticketing?
>
The station managers are there to provide security, monitor station
machinery, answer questions on how to use the farecard machines, and help
lost tourists.
> All in all, an interesting ride. I wonder how gracefully the Metro will
age.
> It's now a bit over 25 years old and it will be interesting to see what
> shape the infrastructure will be in when the system is 100 years old!
>
I wonder the same thing too. The system is already showing some pains from
its popularity. You should see the place on July 4th after the fireworks
display. When the Green Line opened down to Branch Avenue, ridership was
much higher than expected which caused a problem because there simply
weren't enough trains to carry everyone, expecially during rush hour. The
solutions to the problems are not cheap or easy.
Tom Smith
>
>
>
>
Thomas Smith
>
<SNIP>
>
> The point where the two arches cross in Metro Center (A01 C01)
> is the largest self supporting arch of it's kind in the world.
>
> I will also note the the total floor square footage platforms,
> mezzanines and passageways in Metro Center is over 127,500
> Square feet 11,850 Square meters.
>
> The number of station with pre-fabricated station arches is 11.
> 10 of the station with precast concrete arch vaults were built
> that way because the stations were excavated out of the bed rock.
> The precast concrete arch vaults were assembled in the gallery
> excavated out of the bed rock are not structural.
>
> Actually you will find significant variation in subway station
> passed through, 22 Coffer pored in place concrete. The other
> designs are; 6 Coffer pored in place concrete; 4 Coffer precast
> concrete; 6 Coffer precast concrete (only one example); 22 Coffer
> precast concrete (only one example); and the transverse arches
> in the Anacostia station (F06).
>
I've noticed a pattern on when the staion opened as to the station design.
The Orange Line, Blue Line, Archives Statom on the Yellow/Green Line, and
downtown Red Line (between Dupont Circle Station and Union Station) all
opened in the late 1970s and feature the 22 Coffer design. The other
designs are on the newer sections of the Metro that opened after the mid
1980s. These are the Red Line north of Dupont Circle and Silver Springs,
and all Green Line stations except Gallery Place, Archives, and L'Enfant
Plaza.
Another factor to consider is ground water removal. It sounds like you are
in the middle of a waterfall on some of the Red Line stations like Cleveland
Park or Rockville, while the newer stations have figured out better ways to
remove ground water accumulation.
<SNIP>
Tom Smith
Thomas Smith
and the NPS to agree on a station there.
Tom Smith
"wrob" <wr...@erols.com> wrote in message news:3ED68206...@erols.com...
> If I remember correctly, Arlington Cemetery's canopy consists of
> the Memorial Drive overpass (Memorial Bridge Extended), which is
> very wide (it includes 16-foot sidewalks and landscaping.)
>
> I could be wrong -- I rarely go by that way...
>
> I do not understand why the Feds were willing to pay for an
> Arlington Cemetery stop (considering Tourmobile serves it
> much better) and not pay for a Wolf Trap Farm Park stop.
> Wolf Trap is right off the Dulles Toll Road.
>
> Mark wrote:
>
> > Correct me if I'm wrong---but I don't think the Arlington Cemetary
Station,
> > which was part of Phase II has the gull wing.
> >
> > Mark
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "wrob" <wr...@erols.com>
> > Newsgroups: misc.transport.urban-transit,ne.transportation
> > Sent: Friday, May 23, 2003 3:58 AM
> > Subject: Re: Washington Metro Trip
> >
> > > "Scott M. Kozel" wrote:
> > >
> > > > Well, that was true as of Phase II... all the subway stations had
the
> > > > 22-coffer vault and all the surface stations had the gullwing
canopy...
> > > > correct?
> > > >
> > > > It was later lines that started differing the designs.
> > >
> > > Most of the stations on the NY subway look the same without the
> > > signs, if you go line-by-line.
> > >
> > > Like in NY, most of the line-length intermediate stations in
> > > DC look very, very similar. This is especially odd when you
> > > encounter one of the stations in Arlington, since I (personally)
> > > am used to thinking I'm in downtown DC when I encounter one of
> > > the "monumental" 22-coffer waffle cieling stations. On the MD
> > > side of the river there are no such stations outside of the
> > > borders of the L'Enfant City, perhaps subconscious design intent
> > > on the part of the engineers...
> > >
> > > But most of the DESTINATION and TRANSFER stations are very
> > > distinctive! I can't understand why anyone would want, say
> > > the Potomac Yard or Ballston stations all tricked-up. We're
> > > talking intermediate origin stations, not so much major
> > > daytime destination points.
> > >
> > > I could see it with an interesting neighborhood like Clarendon
> > > or U Street, maybe something like Hollywood & Vine, but these
> > > neighborhoods should feel honored to have the 22-coffer design
> > > since it places them in the "city" psychologically, anyhow.
> > >
> > > Consider the major stations:
> > >
> > > Metro Center -- very famous cathedral-style layout.
> > >
> > > Gallery Place -- huge 3-level mezzanine distribution
> > > system square in the middle of the crossing
> > > point with bright lighting, plus giant walls
> > > at the end of the Yellow Line transepts with
> > > large neon artwork.
> > >
> > > Judiciary Square -- the only perfectly symmetrical
> > > station in the entire system, to my knowledge --
> > > even the elevators are directly diagonal features
> > > in the circular Law Enforcment Memorial plaza and
> > > are done up in brushed steel instead of brown.
> > >
> > > Dupont Circle -- standard, but with spectacular escalators.
> > >
> > > Friendship Heights -- pod-like circular 5-way landing
> > > connects to three or four different malls under
> > > Western Ave.
> > >
> > > Farragut North -- mezzanine runs 1/2 the length of the
> > > station and is suspended from the vault with
> > > an open area in the middle, rather than vice
> > > versa; also, station is brightly whitewashed.
> > >
> > > Union Station -- Looks like Farragut North with smaller
> > > mezzanine. There is a hidden entryway in the
> > > 1st street entrance that could be opened up for
> > > connection to an M St/H Street blue line metro.
> > > Carriage porch entryway (south end) is memorable.
> > >
> > > L'Enfant Plaza -- grungier looking version of Gallery Place,
> > > without the mezzanine in the middle of the crossing.
> > >
> > > Rosslyn, Pentagon -- matching split-level stations with
> > > deep escalators to surface in the case of Rosslyn.
> > >
> > > Archives -- standard, but whitewashed -- very obvious.
> > > Hard to miss single entryway on Penna. Ave.
> > >
> > > Mount Vernon/Convention Center -- standard 4-coffer arch
> > > design but extremely grotty due to water damage from
> > > convention center, unlike all other stations on the line.
> > >
> > > Federal Triangle -- standard but lone entryway is unique -- it has
> > > stepped escalators and two exit levels, one into the
> > > Reagan building atrium and one into the loggia of the FTC.
> > > The atrium level was fenced off, leading to parts unknown,
> > > for 20 years.
> > >
> > > Smithsonian, Federal Center SW -- not important destination points
> > > for non-tourists, so they get the standard undistinguishable
> > > treatment. :-p
> > >
> > > Farragut West, McPherson Sq -- Okay, you got me. Pastel paint job?
> > >
> > > Of course most of the stations on the surface (except those in
> > > highway medians!) are very distinctive to anyone who has any idea
> > > where they are going.
Thomas Smith
1960s/early 1970s), the area where a Georgetown station would have been
built was mostly low-density residential. It was felt that at the time,
there just wasn't enough population or commercial activity in the immediate
area to justify the engineering and construction costs. Also, you would
have had to make a significant diversion of the Red Line from under
Connecticut Ave. or the Orange/Blue Line between the Foggy Bottom and
Rosslyn stations.
Tom Smith
"Michael Moroney" <mor...@world.std.spaamtrap.com> wrote in message
news:bbl2bo$s7f$1...@pcls4.std.com...
Thomas Smith
one is if it has a center platform or twin platform (center rail). Another
difference is where the escalators are in the station. It takes some
getting used to, but I've never really gotten lost on the DC Metro.
Tom Smith
"Jay Levitt" <jay+...@jay.fm> wrote in message
news:MPG.193711b0f...@news-east.giganews.com...
> In article <3ECD1846...@attbi.com>, koz...@attbi.com says...
> > A non-railfan can easily notice the differences, IMO.
>
> Can? Yes, especially once they're pointed out. Will? I doubt it. Go
> take a survey of Metro commuters next time you're bored...
>
> That said, I think the signs are ample, and unlike on the T, in
> Washington I never, ever wondered what station I was arriving at.
>
> --
> Jay Levitt |
> Wellesley, MA | Hi!
> Faster: jay at jay dot eff-em | Where are we going?
> http://www.jay.fm | Why am I in this handbasket?
David Lesher
>Another factor to consider is ground water removal. It sounds like you are
>in the middle of a waterfall on some of the Red Line stations like Cleveland
>Park or Rockville, while the newer stations have figured out better ways to
>remove ground water accumulation.
Partially true, but also they don't run under Rock Creek.
--
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
David Lesher
>It is my understanding that at the time the Metro was being designed (late
>1960s/early 1970s), the area where a Georgetown station would have been
>built was mostly low-density residential.....
See:
<http://www.google.com/groups?selm=9paiup%242nd%241%40panix1.panix.com&output=gplain>
for the minor research I did on this Urban Legend.
John R Cambron
David Lesher wrote:
>
> "Thomas Smith" <thomas....@worldnet.att.net-NO-SPAM> writes:
>
> >Another factor to consider is ground water removal. It sounds like you are
> >in the middle of a waterfall on some of the Red Line stations like Cleveland
> >Park or Rockville, while the newer stations have figured out better ways to
> >remove ground water accumulation.
>
> Partially true, but also they don't run under Rock Creek.
Humm ?
I have a set of construction drawings that infact shows the Red
line running in a cut and cover tunnel under Rock Creek between
111+00 and 119+00. The tunnel is just up stream of the Connecticut
Avenue, Taft Bridge.
David Lesher
>> >Another factor to consider is ground water removal. It sounds like you are
>> >in the middle of a waterfall on some of the Red Line stations like Cleveland
>> >Park or Rockville, while the newer stations have figured out better ways to
>> >remove ground water accumulation.
>>
>> Partially true, but also they don't run under Rock Creek.
>Humm ?
>I have a set of construction drawings that infact shows the Red
>line running in a cut and cover tunnel under Rock Creek between
>111+00 and 119+00. The tunnel is just up stream of the Connecticut
>Avenue, Taft Bridge.
Rephrased: the original section suffers from running under Rock
Creek. Perhaps because it is C&C there, I've heard that particular
crossing has a worse water leakage issue than others.
wrob
were being built today, they would have chosen to tunnel under the
wide part of the river instead of going through Georgetown via
Pennsylvania Avenue. Your answer should tell you whether or not
this is an "urban legend".
Hint: Georgetown wants Metro today; the people in the south end
of Great Falls do not. As a result, WMATA engineers have developed
technically-feasible long-term plans for an M Street subway coming
out of Rosslyn Station -- the same thing they could have done in
the 70's -- but are making no attempt to build a station at Wolf Trap
or Hunter Mill in the here-and-now. Why? Politics. The same reason
the current proposed Blue Line spur was conveniently forgotten when
the architects drew one up in the 60's -- back when the Kennedy's
people all lived there.
If Georgetown was such a non-destination at the time, then why did
they ever put pen to paper to propose it, only to see the idea buried?
Hint -- not because it was infeasible. It owuld have gone under
a bunch of old industrial relics that have since been gutted and
rehabbed, through solid rock (not "a right angle turn directly
under the river's edge" as people keep insisting. The new Loew's
Georgewtown Cinemas had to be carved out of solid rock.)
All politics is back-room politics. Anyone who thinks differently
hasn't been in backroom discussions with NIMBY's, living in Takoma
Park I know what the story is.
Matthew Mitchell
"Thomas Smith" <thomas....@worldnet.att.net-NO-SPAM> wrote:
>The air quality is good, and I am
>also wondering if they filter for biological or chemical agents that a
>terrorist would use like the sarin gas attack in Tokyo back in 1995.
They ain't gonna tell you or me.
John R Cambron
The "air conditioning" more like dehumidifying system does in fact
have conventional filters much like the ones in your home air
conditioning system.
As for filtering biological or chemical agents no such system
exists in WMATA subway stations. However there are chemical
agent detectors in selected stations, I don't know if they can
also detect biological agents.
This system was put in more then 3 years and was covered in the
press.
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=u33khtggi73vd7%40corp.supernews.com