Where does Route 3 enter New Hampshire?
John F. Carr
are the following indications of line-crossing:
Welcome to Massachusetts sign
Welcome to New Hampshire sign
median turnaround
pavement change
NH mile marker 0
Entering Tyngsborough small green sign
Which, if any, of these is the true state line?
--
John Carr (j...@mit.edu)
Route2 driver
Land Surveyor. Mass Highway and NH DOT probably have a mutually
agreed upon line but I don't know how obvious it is to everyone.
Michael Moroney
> Near where Route 3 crosses the Massachusetts-New Hampshire line
> are the following indications of line-crossing:
>
> Welcome to Massachusetts sign
> Welcome to New Hampshire sign
The big "Welcome to..." signs are usually _not_ located at the
state line. I've seen them as much as 1 mile into the entered
state.
> median turnaround
Which one? There are two, one in NH, one in Mass.
> Which, if any, of these is the true state line?
None of the above (necessarily). I believe there is a granite
marker in the median (or off to one side) marking the (real)
state line. Keep in mind the road doesn't cross the state line
at a right angle.
For a more interesting "where is the state line?" place, check
out where Route 119 crosses from Massachusetts into New Hampshire
in Ashburnham MA/Rindge NH/New Ipswich NH As you cross from MA
into NH, you encounter (in order), a New Hampshire state line
marker saying State Line/New Ipswich/New Hampshire, a big white
Massachusetts Town Line marker saying Entering Rindge NH, a NH
119 route marker and then a NH town line marker (thin vertical
strip) stating you're entering Rindge. Not only do the two states
disagree which NH town you enter at the state line, it appears as
if MA and NH both claim a 30' or so strip of land. The pavement
changes about halfway between the NH state line and the MA town/
state line signs.
The state line crosses at a sharp angle there, probably a source of
the confusion. The town line between Ringe and New Ipswich is right
after the state line, and it also crosses at an angle.
Another new Massachusetts territorial claim is on Route 146 at the
MA/RI state line. A brand new Massachusetts Mile 0 marker is quite
a bit south of the RI Mile 0 marker and pavement change.
Bill
wrote:
Was a case not decided within the last ten years regarding a huge
swath of a Rhode Island town? Was it not decided that the mass of the
town belonged to Connecticut? It seems silly that these things are
still being played out to the end. Why even bother?
bill
D. Kirkpatrick
j...@mit.edu (John F. Carr) wrote:
>
> Which, if any, of these is the true state line?
Maybe a silly answer but check where the pavement is connected.
Construction crews don't like to do more than contracted.
I usually joke with people that the line in the road where the
different pavements meet is the line you see on road maps.
:-)
Al Sherman
> Maybe a silly answer but check where the pavement is connected.
> Construction crews don't like to do more than contracted.
>
I checked the satellite views in google, bing, and yahoo maps. They all
show the state line a bit north of where the pavement and striping changes.
You can see the pavement transition very clearly in the google street views.
Google and Bing show two median turnarounds with the State line about midway
between them. Yahoo maps were not as clear.
Al
Eric
putting about 2/3 of the Pheasant Lane mall in Massachusetts.
Eric
Al Sherman
the Mall is lopped off, as if it was intended to avoid having any part of
the building in Massachusetts. All three maps put the line about 25 feet
into the building. It looks like the same offset when viewing the location
of the state line sign on the Daniel Webster Highway Being on the Internet
does not imply it can be trusted.
-Al
Anon
The mall building itself is entirely in the State of New Hampshire. This
was intentional, to avoid the issue of different retail laws, such as
sales tax. There is a long straight metal "state line" embedded in the
sidewalk, parallel to that lopped-off side of J.C. Penney. It's not
labeled, but they made kind of a big deal about it when the mall opened.
The "welcome" signs and turn-arounds are placed for convenience and
other factors that do not require them to be exactly at the state line;
they cannot be taken as territorial claims. The pavement border on the
highway shifts back and forth whenever it's re-paved; I always thought
there must be a reason for that.
David Chesler
> The mall building itself is entirely in the State of New Hampshire. This
> was intentional, to avoid the issue of different retail laws, such as
> sales tax. There is a long straight metal "state line" embedded in the
> sidewalk, parallel to that lopped-off side of J.C. Penney. It's not
> labeled, but they made kind of a big deal about it when the mall opened.
I remember those stories from the late 80s (they may have been lore
handed down through DEC at the time.) Apparently it was a surveyor's
error discovered just in time to save the entire mall from being subject
to Massachusetts sales tax. In the Google view there seems to be some
line visible in the parking lot to the left of the lopped-off corner.
And the pavement changes on Route 3 (which is still running on the
Everett Turnpike freeway) do seem to intersect that continuation right
about the middle of the slabs, so the two pavement-change lines are
skewed to each other.
I suppose it's primarily a concern if there were a car crash right on
the border, and they needed to know where to bury the survivors.
--
- David Chesler <che...@post.harvard.edu>
New York's home, but it ain't mine no more
Route2 driver
> highway shifts back and forth whenever it's re-paved; I always thought
> there must be a reason for that.
This is a standard paving rule,when you resurface a road you sawcut
past the existing joint to get a better bond,trying to match the
existing joint would result in a messy joint that would fall apart
prematurely.Therefore the joint will keep shifting back and forth as
each state repaves the road.
Robert Coe
wrote:
: On Oct 12, 8:04�pm, j...@mit.edu (John F. Carr) wrote:
: > Near where Route 3 crosses the Massachusetts-New Hampshire line
: The only person who can give you the true answer is a Proffesional
: Land Surveyor. Mass Highway and NH DOT probably have a mutually
: agreed upon line but I don't know how obvious it is to everyone.
Ipso facto, that would be the pavement change, wouldn't it? But the median
turnaround is probably where the cops of each state reverse direction, and
that may be what matters most. ;^)
Bob
Robert Coe
: On Oct 12, 10:17嚙緘m, moro...@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
: wrote:
: > On Oct 12, 8:04=A0pm, j...@mit.edu (John F. Carr) wrote:
: >
: > > Near where Route 3 crosses the Massachusetts-New Hampshire line
: > > are the following indications of line-crossing:
: >
: > > Welcome to Massachusetts sign
: > > Welcome to New Hampshire sign
: >
: > The big "Welcome to..." signs are usually _not_ located at the
: > state.
: >
: > > median turnaround
: >
: > Which one? There are two, one in NH, one in Mass.
: >
: > > Which, if any, of these is the true state line?
: >
: > marker in the median (or off to one side) marking the (real)
: > at a right angle.
: >
: > For a more interesting "where is the state line?" place, check
: > out where Route 119 crosses from Massachusetts into New Hampshire
: > into NH, you encounter (in order), a New Hampshire state line
: > marker saying State Line/New Ipswich/New Hampshire, a big white
: > Massachusetts Town Line marker saying Entering Rindge NH, a NH
: > 119 route marker and then a NH town line marker (thin vertical
: > strip) stating you're entering Rindge. Not only do the two states
: > disagree which NH town you enter at the state line, it appears as
: > changes about halfway between the NH state line and the MA town/
: > state line signs.
: >
: > The state line crosses at a sharp angle there, probably a source of
: > after the state line, and it also crosses at an angle.
: >
: > Another new Massachusetts territorial claim is on Route 146 at the
: > a bit south of the RI Mile 0 marker and pavement change.
:
: Was a case not decided within the last ten years regarding a huge
: swath of a Rhode Island town? Was it not decided that the mass of the
: town belonged to Connecticut? It seems silly that these things are
: still being played out to the end. Why even bother?
Income taxes, property taxes, state aid, college resident/non-resident
tuitions.
Bob
Michael
> I suppose it's primarily a concern if there were a car crash right on
> the border, and they needed to know where to bury the survivors.
Apparently "Live Free or Die" entails burying survivors?