TIAC Sucks
wfl...@tiac.net
I would like to know why they other local ISP's are not constantly
having problems the way TIAC is. I also notice that none of the other
ISP's are constantly bashed in like TIAC is.
The Old Bear
"wfl...@tiac.net" <wfl...@tiac.net> writes:
A lot of it has to do with size.
A lot of it has to do with trying to innovate.
Some of it has to do with growth.
And some of it has to do with trying to serve a mix of very
sophisticated users and very unsophisticated users.
None of the above makes it any more pleasant or convenient when one
has to endure a series of system problems.
There are both advantages and disadvantages to TIAC, just as there
are with any provider. If you want a smaller provider, there are
several to choose from.
Or you could go with a larger provider, like AOL, which has its own
set of usenet newsgroups:
alt.aol.sucks
alt.aol.overbilling
alt.aol.rejects
alt.hackers.aol.sucks
alt.online-services.aol-criticism
I think the questions you ask are very interesting and could make the
basis of a good dissertation for someone earning a degree in marketing.
Somehow, I suspect such a dissertation would include direct and indirect
references to cafeteria food, the phone company, landlords, airports,
the government, banks, credit-card companies, car dealerships, traffic
court, and HMOs.
Cheers,
The Old Bear
EskWIRED
wfl...@tiac.net (wfl...@tiac.net) wrote:
: I would like to know why they other local ISP's are not constantly
: ISP's are constantly bashed in like TIAC is.
Hey! I guess that you just haven't been paying attention!
Fact of the matter is that EVERY local ISP sucks just as bad as TIAC, but
a tiny vocal minority of malcontents gets their jollies by bashing TIAC.
Yes indeedy. ALL local ISPs lose usenet news, have constant problems, and
bungle customer relations.
Sheesh..........
--
Chris Faylor
In article <31AD9C...@tiac.net>, wfl...@tiac.net <wfl...@tiac.net> wrote:
>I would like to know why they other local ISP's are not constantly
>having problems the way TIAC is. I also notice that none of the other
>ISP's are constantly bashed in like TIAC is.
Because none of the other ISPs are as big as TIAC.
Because none of the other ISPs are as old as TIAC.
Because TIAC is experiencing growing pains.
Because TIAC is pushing the envelope.
Because there will always be a vocal few who are just have to gripe, and
they make things seem worse than they really are.
Because TIAC is brave enough to make its problems public. They don't hide
behind a shroud of secrecy like other ISPs.
Because Tim Jackson is a visible Usenet activist, unlike other ISP
CEOs. That puts more focus on TIAC's problems because people are jealous
of his success and popularity.
Because it is much easier to tear down than to build up.
Because the 'tiac' newsgroup is automatically crossposted to
'ne.internet.services'.
Because even bad publicity is publicity.
Because they aren't really problems at all. They are learning experiences.
--
c...@bbc.com // http://www.bbc.com/ \\ "Strange how unreal
Boston Business Computing \\ VMS=>UNIX Solutions // the real can be."
Frank Perreault
On 30 May 1996 18:50:23 GMT, eskw...@shore.net (EskWIRED) wrote:
>wfl...@tiac.net (wfl...@tiac.net) wrote:
>: I would like to know why they other local ISP's are not constantly
>: having problems the way TIAC is. I also notice that none of the other
>: ISP's are constantly bashed in like TIAC is.
>
>Hey! I guess that you just haven't been paying attention!
>
>Fact of the matter is that EVERY local ISP sucks just as bad as TIAC, but
>a tiny vocal minority of malcontents gets their jollies by bashing TIAC.
>Yes indeedy. ALL local ISPs lose usenet news, have constant problems, and
>bungle customer relations.
>
>Sheesh..........
>
>--
I don't agree. Yes, no ISP is perfect, but I've signed on with many ISP's in
the last 5 years and have NEVER seen the problems as I did with TIAC. In TIAC's
case its's definitely a case of all show, no go.
In the 2 months that I have been with shore.net. I have not seen any mail
disappear or servers blow up. Can you say the same with TIAC?
--- Frank ---
Christopher G Faylor
In article <31AD9C...@tiac.net>, wfl...@tiac.net <wfl...@tiac.net> wrote:
>I would like to know why they other local ISP's are not constantly
>having problems the way TIAC is. I also notice that none of the other
>ISP's are constantly bashed in like TIAC is.
Because none of the other ISPs are as big as TIAC.
Because none of the other ISPs are as old as TIAC.
Because TIAC is experiencing growing pains.
Because TIAC is pushing the envelope.
Because there will always be a vocal few who just have to gripe, and
Christopher G Faylor
In article <31AD9C...@tiac.net>, wfl...@tiac.net <wfl...@tiac.net> wrote:
>I would like to know why they other local ISP's are not constantly
>having problems the way TIAC is. I also notice that none of the other
>ISP's are constantly bashed in like TIAC is.
Because none of the other ISPs are as big as TIAC.
Because none of the other ISPs are as old as TIAC.
Because TIAC is experiencing growing pains.
Because TIAC is pushing the envelope.
Because there will always be a vocal few who are just have to gripe, and
Betsy Schwartz
"shroud of secrecy???"
Lowell! Barry! Off with those veils! What's REALLY underneath???
--
bet...@shore.net http://www.shore.net/~betsys
bet...@cs.umb.edu http://www.cs.umb.edu/~betsys
bet...@well.com 73053...@compuserve.com
bet...@msn.com bet...@delphi.com
Martin Hannigan
In article <Ds9u2...@world.std.com>,
Christopher G Faylor <c...@world.std.com> wrote:
>In article <31AD9C...@tiac.net>, wfl...@tiac.net <wfl...@tiac.net> wrote:
>>I would like to know why they other local ISP's are not constantly
>>having problems the way TIAC is. I also notice that none of the other
>>ISP's are constantly bashed in like TIAC is.
>
Fact correction time.
>Because none of the other ISPs are as big as TIAC.
Says who? Tim "Pee Wee" Jackson says they are 22,000. Reduce that by
the TimWee Bloat Factor and theyy're probably around 18. What do
you consider close?
>
>Because none of the other ISPs are as old as TIAC.
Software Tool & Die is older than all of them.
>Because TIAC is experiencing growing pains.
No excuse.
>Because TIAC is pushing the envelope.
..of allegedly bad service.
>
>Because there will always be a vocal few who just have to gripe, and
>they make things seem worse than they really are.
Pee Wee already tried that argument. It didn't work.
>Because TIAC is brave enough to make its problems public. They don't hide
>behind a shroud of secrecy like other ISPs.
It's not bravery. How can you hide it when you blow away your
news server?
>Because Tim Jackson is a visible Usenet activist, unlike other ISP
He doesn't even know his netiquette or even Usenet history. Usenet
activist? Are you shitting me?
>CEOs. That puts more focus on TIAC's problems because people are jealous
>of his success and popularity.
Popular? :) No comment.
Are you Tims second son?
--
Martin Hannigan (hann...@shore.net)
Public Key: finger hann...@shore.net
- .. -- .--- .- -.-. -.- ... --- -. ..-. --- -.. -.. . .-.
EskWIRED
Frank Perreault (fra...@shore.net) wrote:
: On 30 May 1996 18:50:23 GMT, eskw...@shore.net (EskWIRED) wrote:
: >wfl...@tiac.net (wfl...@tiac.net) wrote:
: >: I would like to know why they other local ISP's are not constantly
: >: having problems the way TIAC is. I also notice that none of the other
: >: ISP's are constantly bashed in like TIAC is.
: >
: >Hey! I guess that you just haven't been paying attention!
: >
: >Fact of the matter is that EVERY local ISP sucks just as bad as TIAC, but
: >a tiny vocal minority of malcontents gets their jollies by bashing TIAC.
: >Yes indeedy. ALL local ISPs lose usenet news, have constant problems, and
: >bungle customer relations.
: >
: >Sheesh..........
: >
: >--
: I don't agree. Yes, no ISP is perfect, but I've signed on with many ISP's in
: the last 5 years and have NEVER seen the problems as I did with TIAC. In TIAC's
: case its's definitely a case of all show, no go.
: In the 2 months that I have been with shore.net. I have not seen any mail
: disappear or servers blow up. Can you say the same with TIAC?
CLUE: (I was being sarcastic)
EskWIRED
Christopher G Faylor (c...@world.std.com) wrote:
: In article <31AD9C...@tiac.net>, wfl...@tiac.net <wfl...@tiac.net> wrote:
: >I would like to know why they other local ISP's are not constantly
: >having problems the way TIAC is. I also notice that none of the other
: >ISP's are constantly bashed in like TIAC is.
: Because none of the other ISPs are as big as TIAC.
: Because none of the other ISPs are as old as TIAC.
: Because TIAC is experiencing growing pains.
: Because TIAC is pushing the envelope.
: Because there will always be a vocal few who just have to gripe, and
: they make things seem worse than they really are.
: Because TIAC is brave enough to make its problems public. They don't hide
: behind a shroud of secrecy like other ISPs.
: Because Tim Jackson is a visible Usenet activist, unlike other ISP
: CEOs. That puts more focus on TIAC's problems because people are jealous
: of his success and popularity.
: Because it is much easier to tear down than to build up.
: Because the 'tiac' newsgroup is automatically crossposted to
: 'ne.internet.services'.
: Because even bad publicity is publicity.
: Because they aren't really problems at all. They are learning experiences.
: --
: c...@bbc.com // http://www.bbc.com/ \\ "Strange how unreal
: Boston Business Computing \\ VMS=>UNIX Solutions // the real can be."
Wow. This response traverses the range from merely incorrect, to wishful
thinking, to wildly delusional.
The biggest ISP? The oldest ISP? Visible internet activist? A shroud of
secrecy at the ISPs? Automatic crossposting?
Wow.
Eric B. Mallett
In article <4okv04$4...@news-central.tiac.net>,
Chris Faylor <c...@bbc.com> wrote:
>In article <31AD9C...@tiac.net>, wfl...@tiac.net <wfl...@tiac.net>
>wrote:
>
Oh? That's news to me. Isn't The World almost twice as old as TIAC?
--
Eric Mallett | (e...@mv.mv.com)
Behind my sarcasm, desperate memories lie -RW TFC
It all makes perfect sense, when expressed in dollars and cents -RW ATD
Chris Faylor
In article <4on0s8$2...@northshore.shore.net>,
Nope. I'm just someone who knows how to type in the TIAC company lines
and refuses to use smileys.
Christopher G Faylor
In article <4on3au$5...@shore.shore.net>, EskWIRED <eskw...@shore.net> wrote:
:Christopher G Faylor (c...@world.std.com) wrote:
::In article <31AD9C...@tiac.net>, wfl...@tiac.net <wfl...@tiac.net> wrote:
::>ISP's are constantly bashed in like TIAC is.
:
:
::Because none of the other ISPs are as old as TIAC.
:
::Because TIAC is brave enough to make its problems public. They don't hide
::behind a shroud of secrecy like other ISPs.
:
::Because Tim Jackson is a visible Usenet activist, unlike other ISP
::CEOs. That puts more focus on TIAC's problems because people are jealous
::of his success and popularity.
:
::'ne.internet.services'.
::Because they aren't really problems at all. They are learning experiences.
:
:Wow. This response traverses the range from merely incorrect, to wishful
:thinking, to wildly delusional.
:
:The biggest ISP? The oldest ISP? Visible internet activist? A shroud of
:secrecy at the ISPs? Automatic crossposting?
:
:Wow.
Thanks. I tried to cover all of the bases.
Btw, this post was my project for the last day. I tried twice to submit
it via TIAC, but both times it apparently didn't make it "out the door".
When I logged in this morning to check for sure, my newsreader was hung
for fifteen minutes or so. But, no big deal. I had other work to do...
Finally, I logged into the World to submit it, and hey! it worked.
In fact, this is my second try at responding. My first was at TIAC.
This one is at the World again.
I wonder why STD is so much luckier than TIAC. Some ISPs just have
all of the luck, I guess. Hmm... There's one more:
Because TIAC has just been unluckly lately.
Peter Peck
In article <4oo1gr$7...@news-central.tiac.net>, c...@bbc.com (Chris Faylor) wrote:
|}
|}Ya no shit. Chris are you OK? I've read coherent posts from you in the
|}past. What's going on?
|
|Sorry. I guess I had my sarcasm meter set way too high on that post.
|It was supposed to be a compendium of things we've heard in the past.
|I was trying to elicit a Tim Jackson kind of atmosphere by pulling things
|from all over the board and making outrageous, unsubstantiated claims.
Hi - Well it worked - you got a Tim J kind of response. ))
|Judging from the response, it certainly wasn't obvious that I was
|trying to be "funny".
I think for some strange reason the humor threshold in these NG's is at an
all time high. IMHO however the best humor is the least obvious -
especially sarcasm. ;-) - Peter
Chris Faylor
In article <4onurb$4...@news-central.tiac.net>, Sean <Se...@backbay.com> wrote:
}On 31 May 1996 15:30:38 GMT, eskw...@shore.net (EskWIRED) wrote:
}
}]Wow. This response traverses the range from merely incorrect, to wishful
}]thinking, to wildly delusional.
}]
}]The biggest ISP? The oldest ISP? Visible internet activist? A shroud of
}]secrecy at the ISPs? Automatic crossposting?
}]
}]Wow.
}
}past. What's going on?
Sorry. I guess I had my sarcasm meter set way too high on that post.
It was supposed to be a compendium of things we've heard in the past.
I was trying to elicit a Tim Jackson kind of atmosphere by pulling things
from all over the board and making outrageous, unsubstantiated claims.
Judging from the response, it certainly wasn't obvious that I was
trying to be "funny".
Ari Herzog~
I heard Martin Hannigan (hann...@shore.net) mention...
"Are you Tims second son?
If the poster is, then you would be Tim's alter ego.
*grin*
****************************
Ari Herzog | a...@ici.net
Internet Connection, Inc.
272 Chauncy Street, Suite 6
Mansfield, MA 02048-1257
http://www.ici.net
Barry Shein
From: bet...@northshore.shore.net (Betsy Schwartz)
>"shroud of secrecy???"
>
>Lowell! Barry! Off with those veils! What's REALLY underneath???
Well, one thing I was going to point out is that World is the oldest
public access internet provider on the planet (he thought one of the
others was older), having started service with the installation of its
first T1 to the net in December 1989 (we were already in the
email/usenet etc public dialup biz at that point.)
As to that "shroud of secrecy", well, to be honest, people like
ourselves who open their entire system to anyone on the net with a few
bucks in their pocket aren't exactly a secretive lot, by nature. Sorta
like trying to be a modest goldfish, if you get my drift.
--
-Barry Shein
Software Tool & Die | b...@world.std.com | http://www.std.com
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202 | Login: 617-739-WRLD
EskWIRED
Christopher G Faylor (c...@world.std.com) wrote:
: Thanks. I tried to cover all of the bases.
: Btw, this post was my project for the last day. I tried twice to submit
: it via TIAC, but both times it apparently didn't make it "out the door".
: When I logged in this morning to check for sure, my newsreader was hung
: for fifteen minutes or so. But, no big deal. I had other work to do...
Chris--
Forgive me for not appreciating the irony in your post. I thought that
you were serious! You did such a good job of imitating the apologists...
--
============================================================
---------...@shore.net------------
============================================================
Subscribe to Alt.Food.Barbecue--Usenet's ONLY Barbecue Newsgroup!
Barry Shein
From: e...@mv.mv.com (Eric B. Mallett)
>Chris Faylor <c...@bbc.com> wrote:
>>In article <31AD9C...@tiac.net>, wfl...@tiac.net <wfl...@tiac.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>Because none of the other ISPs are as old as TIAC.
>
>Oh? That's news to me. Isn't The World almost twice as old as TIAC?
The World started offering public access internet with the
installation of its first T1 to the net in December 1989.
The Old Bear
p...@tiac.net (Peter Peck) writes:
> From: p...@tiac.net (Peter Peck)
> Newsgroups: ne.internet.services,tiac
> Subject: Re: TIAC Sucks
> Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 22:12:55 -0400
> ...
> I think for some strange reason the humor threshold in these NG's is at an
> all time high. IMHO however the best humor is the least obvious -
> especially sarcasm.
sar·casm (särąkŕz´em) noun
1. A cutting, often ironic remark intended to wound.
2. A form of wit that is marked by the use of sarcastic language
and is intended to make its victim the butt of contempt or
ridicule.
3. The use of sarcasm.
[Late Latin "sarcasmus", from Greek "sarkasmos", from "sarkazein",
to bite the lips in rage, from "sarx", or "sark-" meaning or
pertaining to flesh.]
Peter Peck
In article <oldbear.23...@arctos.com>, old...@arctos.com (The Old
Bear) wrote:
|p...@tiac.net (Peter Peck) writes:
|> I think for some strange reason the humor threshold in these NG's is at an
|> all time high. IMHO however the best humor is the least obvious -
|> especially sarcasm.
|
|sar·casm (sär¹kàz´em) noun
| 1. A cutting, often ironic remark intended to wound.
| 2. A form of wit that is marked by the use of sarcastic language
| and is intended to make its victim the butt of contempt or
| ridicule.
| 3. The use of sarcasm.
Yea I guess if sarcasm contains more than a small element of truth it
COULD inflict a savage wound. I appreciate it more as a vehicle for
drawing attention to problems and to induce change than as a destroyer. I
also think that most sarcasm merely serves to open previously created or
neglected wounds. If it doesnt strike to the heart of an existing problem
its not very effective and is instead merely ridiculous. What I ment by
the above is that I get more enjoyment out of sarcasm that is subtle than
that which crude, blatant or vicious. Of course if I am pissed I dont
always practice what I preach. ;-)- Peter
Zachary Kessin
In article <4on3au$5...@shore.shore.net> eskw...@shore.net (EskWIRED) writes:
: Because none of the other ISPs are as big as TIAC.
: Because none of the other ISPs are as old as TIAC.
Just for the sake of truth, Software Tool and Die (world.std.com)
was the first ISP in the world. (And in the Boston area)
--Zach
zke...@bedlham.com
Chris Faylor
In article <4ovguv$m...@news-central.tiac.net>,
Rick Kelly <r...@tencats.rmkhome.com> wrote:
}When World switched over to a SGI server a year or so ago, they went
}through similar problems. OS crashing. Newsreaders not working.
}User files screwed up. A number of customers left, and TIAC got
}some of them.
}
}The World isn't lucky, they just went through the pain of IRIX and SGI
}sooner. Obviously, they have fixed their problems, but at the time it
}took them 4+ months.
Ok. I've been a World customer for many years and had no problems over
the transition but, granted, there were many other people who were
perturbed and disappointed. This being the case, could it be at all
possible that TIAC would learn from The World's experience? Or, should
we now expect to see ZipNet having news, mail, and WWW problems because
they're starting out, too? Are you implying that every ISP will
eventually have severe news and mail problems?
TIAC's problems have been going on for a lot longer than four months, too.
Rick Kelly
Christopher G Faylor (c...@world.std.com) wrote:
: Btw, this post was my project for the last day. I tried twice to submit
: it via TIAC, but both times it apparently didn't make it "out the door".
: When I logged in this morning to check for sure, my newsreader was hung
: for fifteen minutes or so. But, no big deal. I had other work to do...
: Finally, I logged into the World to submit it, and hey! it worked.
: In fact, this is my second try at responding. My first was at TIAC.
: This one is at the World again.
: I wonder why STD is so much luckier than TIAC. Some ISPs just have
: all of the luck, I guess. Hmm... There's one more:
: Because TIAC has just been unluckly lately.
When World switched over to a SGI server a year or so ago, they went
through similar problems. OS crashing. Newsreaders not working.
User files screwed up. A number of customers left, and TIAC got
some of them.
The World isn't lucky, they just went through the pain of IRIX and SGI
sooner. Obviously, they have fixed their problems, but at the time it
took them 4+ months.
--
Rick Kelly r...@tencats.rmkhome.com r...@rmkhome.com
http://tencats.rmkhome.com
Rick Kelly
Barry Shein
From: r...@rmkhome.com (Rick Kelly)
>: In article <4on3au$5...@shore.shore.net> eskw...@shore.net (EskWIRED) writes:
>: Just for the sake of truth, Software Tool and Die (world.std.com)
>: was the first ISP in the world. (And in the Boston area)
>
>With the help of Alternet and UUNET.
Well, in 1989 we were both startups and I like to think the help was
mutual. We sited UUNET's first Boston-area point of presence in our
offices. We had just started providing shell, email, usenet all via
dial-up (that is, dial-up to get the mail, news etc) ourselves so when
UUNET proposed this we asked if we could share the bandwidth and offer
full internet access to our customers and thus started it all.
There was also a little tiny bit more to becoming the first public
access dial-up internet provider than just getting a T1, that wasn't
all that expensive. Like, you didn't have a a lot of fences to look
over to see if this made the slightest bit of sense (not to mention
the, at the time, avowed non-commercial nature of the net with its
major backbone still supported by the Nat'l Science Foundation for
academic+research use only.)
It was an interesting experience.
Disclaimer: I am president of The World and one of its founders.
Peter Peck
In article <x591e428...@world.std.com>, b...@world.std.com (Barry
Shein) wrote:
|
|There was also a little tiny bit more to becoming the first public
|access dial-up internet provider than just getting a T1, that wasn't
|all that expensive. Like, you didn't have a a lot of fences to look
|over to see if this made the slightest bit of sense (not to mention
|the, at the time, avowed non-commercial nature of the net with its
|major backbone still supported by the Nat'l Science Foundation for
|academic+research use only.)
|
|It was an interesting experience.
|
Hi Barry - So just where is the world headed? Whats in store for the
future? Will you ever offer real PPP access with static IP addresses? Any
plans for POP's outside of Mass? Do you have faith that the commercial
custodians of todays net will be able to provide the bandwidth needed to
support the explosive growth and piggy applications such a video
conferencing that eat up the bandwidth?- Peter
John Whiteside
The Old Bear (old...@arctos.com) wrote:
: There are both advantages and disadvantages to TIAC, just as there
: are with any provider. If you want a smaller provider, there are
: several to choose from.
Just out of curiousity, what are the advantages that TIAC offers and other
ISPs don't?
(For those who've noticed that this is NOT coming from a shore.net address
-- it's no reflection on shore.net. Beginning next week I'll be constantly
travelling back and forth between Boston and DC, before settling down in
DC later this summer. So I wanted something that was ultimately portable:
a shell account with dialups in both DC and Boston. The only non-national
provider I could find with that was TIAC! So far, Concentric is okay, not
quite up to shore.net's level, but not bad, still miles better than TIAC.
I wish I could stick with shore.net!)
=================================================
John Whiteside | Last Days in Boston's South End
jo...@shore.net | http://www.shore.net/~johnw/
=================================================
John Whiteside
Envelope of what, besides bad service?
: Because TIAC is brave enough to make its problems public. They don't hide
: behind a shroud of secrecy like other ISPs.
Bull. Shore.net has the occasional glitch. They respond promptly to make
it right. TIAC doesn't. No big secret there.
: Because Tim Jackson is a visible Usenet activist, unlike other ISP
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You misspelled "loud-mouthed buffoon."
: CEOs. That puts more focus on TIAC's problems because people are jealous
: of his success and popularity.
I'm green with envy, I tell ya!
: Because it is much easier to tear down than to build up.
This is true.
: Because the 'tiac' newsgroup is automatically crossposted to
: 'ne.internet.services'.
Since when?
: Because they aren't really problems at all. They are learning experiences.
Oh, that's right. When I couldn't log into my account, that was a
"learning experience." When the newsfeed was screwy, that was a "learning
experience."
I do have to say, then, that I've learned very little from shore.net or
Concentric.
Barry Shein
From: p...@tiac.net (Peter Peck)
>Will you ever offer real PPP access with static IP addresses?
We're offering real PPP access, but not static IP addresses at this
time. I suspect there'll always be one more step (that's good, gives
us something to do) but we seem to have a lot of fairly happy
customers (well over 10,000) and we'll continue to grow services.
>Any
>plans for POP's outside of Mass?
Well, The World is available by local dial from over 250
Microsoft/UUNET POPs around the US for a $2/hr surcharge.
We'll be putting in more local, no-charge pops, but with several
million people here in the greater Boston area I think we have a lot
of work to do locally also. We are a local call from most of Eastern
Massachussets out thru Worcester, and north and south, and we'll be
announcing some new POPs soon.
What we don't particularly believe in is spending our money on what
I'd call "Vanity POPs"; sticking local dial-ups into big-name cities
mostly for ego reasons, to be able to say we're in this city or that
city while the existant customer base's service quality suffers
because money is all being spent on such things rather than on
delivering good service. Picking up the phone and ordering the pieces
to put a POP into Butte, Montana and deploying it is easy, but the
important question is: Was that a good way to spend the company's
money? Did it help live up to your current customers' expectations?
POPs are relatively expensive, no free lunches on that one.
>Do you have faith that the commercial
>custodians of todays net will be able to provide the bandwidth needed to
>support the explosive growth and piggy applications such a video
>conferencing that eat up the bandwidth?
Well, we certainly keep trying. Not sure if you mean end-user / last
mile bandwidth or backbone bandwidth.
I think what you're going to see are some order of magnitude
improvements in backbone bandwidth. It's already happening with
155Mb/s backbone links going in, but obviously more progress will be
needed. Gigabit long-distance technology is available though still
exotic (eg, switching and routing at those speeds is still being
developed, it has to be made off-the-shelf.)
Just as important are well-designed backbones. Even current 45Mb/s
backbones can do a pretty good job (12 frame per second video is
384kbps as I remember, so a 45Mb/s can carry over 100 of those
simultaneously), if the wire can handle what you want to do but there
are just too many people trying to share that wire (eg, >100 trying to
do that videoconferencing) then the solution may not be more exotic,
higher bandwidth wires than in just more of them and using them well.
But I think we'll see a lot of both, the internet is growing like
topsy (what *is* topsy?)
And of course there is a back-pressure: Consumers expect very low
prices, particularly for personal connections. That has to be
addressed in any plans for upgrading infrastructure. I think we've
already seen the effects of ISP's trying to merely undersell the
competition (often attracting quite a bit of attention) only to be
followed by intense customer dissatisfaction with that cheaper
service, as if the two can't be related.
That's a consumer education issue, you don't get sirloin in a 69c
burger, in fact, you're lucky if you get a burger in a 69c
burger...not that this ever stopped a lot of people from trying that
69c burger to see if maybe by some miracle this one is different.
But I think there are solutions possible which will make everybody
happy. As people become educated that there's no such thing as a free
lunch they'll become more discriminating about the difference between
price and value, and there'll no doubt be changes in the way services
are offered over time.
Chris Faylor
In article <4ovmg5$6...@tribune.concentric.net>,>:Because they aren't really problems at all. They are learning experiences.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
And you're telling me that this one line wasn't enough to give it away for
you John? Tsk, tsk, tsk.
>Oh, that's right. When I couldn't log into my account, that was a
>"learning experience." When the newsfeed was screwy, that was a "learning
>experience."
David Chesler
In article <4ovm9i$6...@tribune.concentric.net>,
John Whiteside <Jwhi...@cris.com> wrote:
>The Old Bear (old...@arctos.com) wrote:
>
>: There are both advantages and disadvantages to TIAC, just as there
>: are with any provider. If you want a smaller provider, there are
>: several to choose from.
>
>Just out of curiousity, what are the advantages that TIAC offers and other
>ISPs don't?
When I was with TIAC, it was because of the advantage of unlimited shell
time, for a low price. AFAIK that remains an advantage, but it is not
worth the disadvantages.
--
David Chesler (che...@shore.net - CURRENT che...@world.std.com - SOMETIMES
david....@itcambridge.com - WORK da...@absol.com - ALWAYS)
1985 Olds Delta 88 Royale for sale, asking $850, write for details.
(A/C works! 2dr, at/ps/pb, cass, new w/s, brks, batt, exh; 249k miles)
Scott Hemphill
In article <4ovm9i$6...@tribune.concentric.net> Jwhi...@cris.com (John Whiteside) writes:
>: There are both advantages and disadvantages to TIAC, just as there
>: are with any provider. If you want a smaller provider, there are
>: several to choose from.
>
>Just out of curiousity, what are the advantages that TIAC offers and other
>ISPs don't?
Fixed IP addresses, permanent domain names. If you have a 300 hour
account (< $50), they will route mail to you via SMTP.
Scott
--
Scott Hemphill hemp...@alumni.caltech.edu
Lawrence San
> >Just out of curiousity, what are the advantages that TIAC offers and other
> >ISPs don't?
In article <HEMPHILL.9...@diamond.tiac.net>,
hemp...@alumni.caltech.edu wrote:
> Fixed IP addresses, permanent domain names. If you have a 300 hour
> account (< $50), they will route mail to you via SMTP.
When you say "fixed IP addresses," are you referring to the virtual Web
sites (which other ISP's offer as well), or are you referring to something
else? I don't know much about this, but I've been assuming that my TIAC
virtual Web site has a fixed IP address but that when I log onto the Net
(PPP) for general purposes, I'm temporarily assigned a floating IP
address.
When you say "permanent domain names," doesn't anyone who registers a
domain name with InterNIC have a permanent domain name (as long as they
continue to pay the fee), regardless of which ISP they use?
To me, the advantage of TIAC over the other ISP's around here is simply
that TIAC has more affordable Web sites, especially if you expect to get
any significant traffic on your site.
--
Lawrence San s...@sanstudio.com
http://www.sanstudio.com/
Graphic Design...Copywriting...Cartooning & Animation
Scott Hemphill
In article <san-060696...@san.tiac.net> s...@sanstudio.com (Lawrence San) writes:
>> In article <4ovm9i$6...@tribune.concentric.net> Jwhi...@cris.com (John
>Whiteside) writes:
>
>> >Just out of curiousity, what are the advantages that TIAC offers and other
>> >ISPs don't?
>
>In article <HEMPHILL.9...@diamond.tiac.net>,
>hemp...@alumni.caltech.edu wrote:
>> Fixed IP addresses, permanent domain names. If you have a 300 hour
>> account (< $50), they will route mail to you via SMTP.
>
>
>When you say "fixed IP addresses," are you referring to the virtual Web
>sites (which other ISP's offer as well), or are you referring to something
>else? I don't know much about this, but I've been assuming that my TIAC
>virtual Web site has a fixed IP address but that when I log onto the Net
>(PPP) for general purposes, I'm temporarily assigned a floating IP
>address.
No, I mean that when you use SLIP or PPP you get the same IP address
every time.
>When you say "permanent domain names," doesn't anyone who registers a
>domain name with InterNIC have a permanent domain name (as long as they
>continue to pay the fee), regardless of which ISP they use?
Yes, but I'm talking about a domain name that is provided by TIAC that
doesn't have to be registered with InterNIC, because it is a subdomain
of tiac.net.
This and the fixed IP address make it possible for me to offer
services for others elsewhere on the Internet on my own machine. For
example, when I wanted to do a job for somebody in Colorado, I could tell
him to upload the files he wanted me to work on to my system. (I set
up an anonymous ftp service on my own machine.) Another example: a
firewall for a company I work for can be configured to let me telnet
in, based on my IP address.
>To me, the advantage of TIAC over the other ISP's around here is simply
>that TIAC has more affordable Web sites, especially if you expect to get
>any significant traffic on your site.
I am sure that people with different requirements will see their own
sets of advantages/disadvantages. I have no need for a Web site at the
current time. My comment above about routing mail via SMTP means that
everyone in my family can have his/her own private email address.
TIAC routes all mail destined for my host, which can deliver to as
many users on my host as I want. (And for no extra charge.)
The Old Bear
hemp...@diamond.tiac.net (Scott Hemphill) writes:
>From: hemp...@diamond.tiac.net (Scott Hemphill)
>Newsgroups: ne.internet.services
>Subject: Re: TIAC Sucks
>Date: 06 Jun 1996 03:57:25 GMT
>In article <4ovm9i$6...@tribune.concentric.net> Jwhi...@cris.com (John Whiteside) writes:
>>: There are both advantages and disadvantages to TIAC, just as there
>>: are with any provider. If you want a smaller provider, there are
>>: several to choose from.
>>
>>Just out of curiousity, what are the advantages that TIAC offers and other
>>ISPs don't?
>Fixed IP addresses, permanent domain names. If you have a 300 hour
>account (< $50), they will route mail to you via SMTP.
For those who do business throughout the region, there is also the
advantage of having local dial-up numbers in Boston, Providence, Hartford,
Portland, Manchester, NYC, etc.
As Scott notes, the SMTP service is also useful, especially if you are
running your own mailserver with usernames and mailboxes for each of your
employees. This can be a big cost saving.
For those who do not want to run a mailserver but want to handle
different mail addresses on a situational basis, TIAC offers 'mail
mapping' to a TIAC pop box on a one-time nominal fee basis. That is,
if you have a domain name like user.com, mail to any...@user.com will
be placed, unsorted, into your TIAC pop box. This is very useful for
companies who want to monitor response to marketing programs by using
different addresses like sur...@user.com, free...@user.com, etc.
Peter Peck
Hi - In all fairness to tiac someone ought to change this thread's
subject. Its beginning to look like the "never ending story". Anyone
peeking in on the NG will see 250 messages with the title TIAC Sucks -
many having nothing to do with this subject. - Peter
Lawrence San
> For those who do not want to run a mailserver but want to handle
> different mail addresses on a situational basis, TIAC offers 'mail
> mapping' to a TIAC pop box on a one-time nominal fee basis. That is,
> if you have a domain name like user.com, mail to any...@user.com will
> be placed, unsorted, into your TIAC pop box. This is very useful for
> companies who want to monitor response to marketing programs by using
> different addresses like sur...@user.com, free...@user.com, etc.
Yeah, I remember now that I paid for this feature long ago without even
knowing why. I occasionally tell people to send me email at
"carto...@sanstudio.com" or "hey...@sanstudio.com" just so I could take
advantage of the feature and get my money's worth, but nobody ever does.
:(