I picked up a router switch for my dsl connection. Does this mean I can do
away with the Norton Firewall software? I just figured it would be one more
thing not bogging my computer down. I got the Netgear RP614 if it matters.
The network card is Netgear also. The info from the router seems to make me
believe I don't need the Norton's now. I also have Norton virus, but I
assume I should keep that. Thanks. This is so new to me.

In article <M9Gka.1589$d8....@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>,

Not unless your router/switch has a built in firewall function.

I wouldn't recommend being on the net without a firewall dialup
or otherwise.

Dialup a free soft package is fine, but when you get to high speed,
there are cheep firewalls out there that do the job.

Of course, you can still use free s/w. Works ok. But overall,
all of this stuff just stops the kids. Not the serious folks.

On the box it says it has Basic NAT firewall. It does not sound impressive
but maybe it does the job. I don't know. Thanks.

news:b6ve22$vjf$1@pcls4.std.com...

In article <f8Hka.1645$d8.1...@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>,

It depends what it does. What's the model?

In article ID <M9Gka.1589$d8....@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>, "news.verizon.net"

Just test it here. (I'd say yes, most likely, with most of today's cable/DSL
routers, you can eliminate the software. The last two I bought, Belkin and
Linksys, had built in firewalls and DHCP servers.)

https://grc.com/x/ne.dll?bh0bkyd2

I was reading in the bathroom when I ran across an item written by
hanni...@TheWorld.com (Martin Hannigan) on Tue, 8 Apr 2003 21:13:38
+0000 (UTC), which said:

I recently (???? - jeez!  It's been six months, already!) was sent to
a month-long basic law-enforcement course, part of which involved an
orientation to computer security.  The instructor *strongly*
recommended getting a really good firewall, as well as pointing the
class to https://grc.com/x/ne.dll?bh0bkyd2

My own personal computer passes Gibson's tests as completely secure,
even though I'm not running anything more than XP Home's own firewall.
Gibson, IIRC, recommends something called Zone Alarm which, I think,
is a freebie.

------
"Where are the dancing elephants?"

If it's a wireless router, I would keep the software, just to keep
neighborhood intruders out.

 > From: Phil Leonard <p...@myrealbox.com>
 > Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 19:02:48 -0400
 >
 > In article ID <M9Gka.1589$d8....@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>, "news.verizon.net"

 >
 > >I picked up a router switch for my dsl connection. Does this mean I can do
 > >away with the Norton Firewall software?
 >
 > Just test it here. (I'd say yes, most likely, with most of today's cable/DSL
 > routers, you can eliminate the software. The last two I bought, Belkin and
 > Linksys, had built in firewalls and DHCP servers.)
 >
 > https://grc.com/x/ne.dll?bh0bkyd2

-----------== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
   http://www.newsfeed.com       The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----= Over 100,000 Newsgroups - Unlimited Fast Downloads - 19 Servers =-----

Previously on ne.internet.services, John Beaderstadt said:

; My own personal computer passes Gibson's tests as completely secure,
; even though I'm not running anything more than XP Home's own firewall.
; Gibson, IIRC, recommends something called Zone Alarm which, I think,
; is a freebie.

The fact that ZA has a freeware version counts a lot to Gibson's
recommendation, too much, imo.

I used to be a ZoneAlarm user, in the 2.X development cycle.  I was
using 2.2, upgrading up through 2.4, all freeware.  I then decided I
should pay for it and upgrade to ZoneAlarm Pro, then currently at
version 2.6.  The upgrade destabilized and practically destroyed my
then-current system, and nothing ZoneLabs could offer short of wiping
and reinstalling my entire system could resolve the issue.

They were decent enough to refund my purchase price.

I haven't seen anything since to make me even think about trying it
again.

I work tech support for an internet client software.  In the 3.x
development cycle of ZoneAlarm/ZoneAlarm Pro, there has been two
confirmed releases that cause problems with our software, from simply
blocking it despite user's specified ZA control panel settings
(requiring the user to go deep into ZA's settings to enable two semi
obscure options) to causing a crash.  The current version, so far as I
know, still has a bug that when an email protection option is enabled
causes usenet messages with anything that looks like an executable
filename in it to become garbled.  This can even include dot-com email
addresses.

"Are you using Zone Alarm" has become a standard question of mine when
a user has any kind of connectivity or otherwise strange problem.  In
every case where the answer was "yes", completely disabling ZA solved
the problem.  The thing is, to completely disable ZA you have to tell
it to not load on the next boot, turn off the UI and reboot.  To
reenable it, you have to turn on the UI and reboot.  To remove it, you
have to disable it, reboot, uninstall it, and reboot again.

There are plenty of other firewalls out there that are just as good, if
not better.

My setup is with XP's built in firewall OFF.  My Linksys router with
NAT provides my primary inbound protection, with Norton Personal
Firewall providing secondary inbound protection, if needed (it hasn't
been) and outbound protection.

Sorry if this sounded like a rant, it isn't supposed to be.  I just
think that you should hear of potential problems with Zone Alarm
+before+ you install it.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan                   <*>                   www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled     <*>     Send personal mail to gordol

Peter's Top 100 Things I'd Do If I Ever Became An Evil Overlord, #50.
My main computers will have their own special operating system that
will be completely incompatible with standard IBM and Macintosh
powerbooks.

I was reading in the bathroom when I ran across an item written by
EskWI...@spamblock.panix.com on Wed, 9 Apr 2003 12:45:29 +0000 (UTC),
which said:

That's why I run Ad-Aware on a regular basis.

------
"Where are the dancing elephants?"

I got to that site and checked it twice. Once with Norton firewall on and
once without. Both times it came out the same and showed my computer
safe(for the moment). But since he mentioned we should have a firewall
anyway it would seem like I should keep Norton going. Thanks for the help.
My feeble mind is not what it used to be. Since I installed the router I
have to get connected to the newsgroups in a wierd way. When I start up the
computer is hooked to the net but to get newsgroups I have to use the
verizon log on  which even though fails to connect it gives me the
newsgroups access or email. Must be in the netgear setup. Thanks.

I just noticed my address is News.verizon, I will have to go and fix that.

news:lvn79vgi31ev1nemc031b2mkglg024as9b@4ax.com...

On 2003-04-09, John Beaderstadt <be...@mindspring.com> wrote:

        Even Ad-Aware doesn't catch everything.  If you were to
        install then run SpyBot on that machine there's a good chance
        it would still catch a few things.

        Both are good, neither is perfect.

At home, I also have a Linksys router and Norton Personal Firewall
(on W2K), but lately Norton has been giving me weird problems.

Blocking connections, but I can't figure out why.  There is nothing
obvious in the rule list that should be causing problems, but there
are hundreds of rules, so I could be missing something.  Amongst the
stuff it is blocking are Norton Live Update!  (I also have Norton System
Works, which include NAV and other utilities.)  When I turn it off,
everything works.  (Sometimes, something such as Norton Live Update
is stuck, apparently waiting forever for a response to something
that got blocked, and I have to reboot with the Firewall set to not
automatically load on boot, to get it to work.)

I tried re-installing the firewall, and that worked for a couple
of months, but it seems to have re-developed the problem.

The Norton stuff is all 2001 versions, bought in late 2000; I've
since purchased 2 one-year subscription renewals (for each of the
firewall and the rest of NSW, in December 2001 and December 2002),
and it happily downloads updates, but I wonder if it is deliberately
broken in some way to encourage people to upgrade to the 2003 versions?

--
John Santos
Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc.
781-861-0670 ext 539

I was reading in the bathroom when I ran across an item written by
Larry Beaulieu <M...@h00a0c9774e3c.ne.client2.attbi.com> on Thu, 10 Apr
2003 05:15:32 GMT, which said:

Yeah, well, neither am I going to spend so much time worrying about
Security that I never have a chance to enjoy my computer.  As it is,
I'm running more security software than is recommended for the average
home computer by the instructors at the Federal Law Enforcement
Training Center, and I feel reasonably comfortable with the results.

------
"Where are the dancing elephants?"

I was reading in the bathroom when I ran across an item written by
EskWI...@spamblock.panix.com on Thu, 10 Apr 2003 12:16:43 +0000 (UTC),
which said:

Does it run in the background, or can it be set to run automatically?
The thing I'd change about Ad-Aware is that it's a discreet, hands-on
application; you have to remember to run it, it must be manually
started, then you go to the bathroom and get another beer while it
does its thing.  It's only five minutes and I don't mind the beer, but
I'd much rather it were automated.

------
"Where are the dancing elephants?"

Previously on ne.internet.services, John Beaderstadt said:

; Does it run in the background, or can it be set to run automatically?
; The thing I'd change about Ad-Aware is that it's a discreet, hands-on
; application; you have to remember to run it, it must be manually
; started, then you go to the bathroom and get another beer while it
; does its thing.  It's only five minutes and I don't mind the beer, but
; I'd much rather it were automated.

Ad-Aware Plus 6 (and Pro) has AdWatch included.  AdWatch is an
autoprotect always-on module for Ad-Aware.  In version 5, AdWatch is a
separate download.  I had to disable AdWatch, because it kept
interfering with legitimate processes write-access to my Registry.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan                   <*>                   www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled     <*>     Send personal mail to gordol

"God, I hate dreams like that."  (Cmdr. Ivanova, B5 "Sic Transit Vir")

Previously on ne.internet.services, John Santos said:

; The Norton stuff is all 2001 versions, bought in late 2000; I've
; since purchased 2 one-year subscription renewals (for each of the
; firewall and the rest of NSW, in December 2001 and December 2002),
; and it happily downloads updates, but I wonder if it is deliberately
; broken in some way to encourage people to upgrade to the 2003 versions?

I don't know.  But it's worth the upgrade anyway.  The obvious
difference is the change in the UI, but the underlining engine is
better now, too, more self-integrated.  However, Symantec removed the
firewall from the Norton Integrator setup.  When you launch the UI from
SystemWorks, it re-launches the main UI without Utilities, CleanSweep,
etc, and its icon doesn't group with other SystemWorks icons in the
systray.

There is now a "block all traffic" toggle, similar to ZoneAlarm's
Internet Lock, and if you're so inclined, you can run the UI in a
collapsed mode called "Security Monitor" that gives you an in/out
traffic meter.  This is in the 2003 version.  I run it on XP, and I
have the 2002 version on a 2K machine.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan                   <*>                   www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled     <*>     Send personal mail to gordol

Peter's Top 100 Things I'd Do If I Ever Became An Evil Overlord, #113.
I will make the main entrance to my fortress standard-sized. While
elaborate 60-foot high double-doors definitely impress the masses, they
are hard to close quickly in an emergency.

Previously on ne.internet.services, EskWI...@spamblock.panix.com said:

; I installed Norton System Works and got a LOT of weird problems.  Norton
; seems to think that if you install their products, you are willing to give
; control of your system over to them, no questions asked.  

Sounds like you enabled everything.  The only parts of NSW that I set
to run automatically are NAV and NPF.  That's +it+.  Everything else is
a manual start, including Live Update.

; I couldn't get any email using NSW.  I needed to use MSCONFIG to stop it

I didn't have to do that.  All of my configurations were done from the
software's own setup dialogs.

; from launching multiple background processes at bootup.  My Recycle bin
; is still infected with Norton, so that when I click it, a Norton program
; starts.

Right-click on Recycle Bin, select Properties.  Click on the Norton
Protection tab, and "empty protected files".  Then uncheck "Enable
protection".  Click Apply.  On the Recycle Bin tab, select 'Standard
Recycle Bin" from the choices on top, and edit the Title, as needed.

Right-click on the Desktop and select Properties.  Find the dialog in
there that allows you to change the desktop icons, it's in a different
location in XP than other versions of Windows.  In turn, select the two
Recycle Bin icons (full and empty) and the "restore default" button for
each.

No more Norton Protected Recycle Bin, and no more looking like it,
either.

; >> Sorry if this sounded like a rant, it isn't supposed to be.  I just
; >> think that you should hear of potential problems with Zone Alarm
; >> +before+ you install it.
; I've never had any problem with ZoneAlarm.  At the beginning, it asks you
; a zillion questions, but that calms down after a while.  Now, the only
; time I think about it is when it says stuff like "Norton NetDetect is
; trying to access the internet.  OK?"  I tell it no, and never worry about
; it again until some other miscreant software tries to make a connection
; without my prior command.

I have no problem with that, all interactive firewalls need to do that.
My problems with ZA were essentially everything else I said in that
message.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan                   <*>                   www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled     <*>     Send personal mail to gordol

"I would have said yes to abortion if only it was right. I mean, yeah
it's right. Well no it's not right that's why I said no to it."  George
W. Bush, South Carolina, February 14,2000

In article <b73n92$1q...@reader1.panix.com>,

While helping my friend deal with his new computer (and the PC-Cillin that
came with it), we found that hsi POP/SMTP addresses had been changed to
re-route to a local port (i.e. it loops to a port at 127.0.0.1) and it
kep his email from working -- he was using Eudora.

We searched the eudora site and found a reference to this being a problem
with Norton Antivirus, and it turned out to be for the same reason -- you
need to turn off e-mail protection in the anti-virus software.  As
explained by Eudora this doesn't open you up for anything since it first
writes the messages to disk at which point the antivirus software checks
it; the e-mail protection "feature" is more than redundant.

I hope that helps.

-Ben

Previously on ne.internet.services, Michael F. Maggard said:

; Ad aware (how Lavasoft titles it) has a tick box for it to start with
; Windows. I use this for some clients who have a big
; download-bright-shiny-objects! problem in their office, every morning it
; simply automagically pulls out the cr*p from the day before.

Enable AdWatch.  It'll get the message across when it happens, not the
next morning, by +preventing+ the crap in the first place, with a
warning dialog.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan                   <*>                   www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled     <*>     Send personal mail to gordol

Peter's Top 100 Things I'd Do If I Ever Became An Evil Overlord, #178.
If I have the hero cornered and am about to finish him off and he says
"Look out behind you!!" I will not laugh and say "You don't expect me
to fall for that old trick, do you?" Instead I will take a step to the
side and half turn. That way I can still keep my weapon trained on the
hero, I can scan the area behind me, and if anything was heading for me
it will now be heading for him.

Previously on ne.internet.services, Ben Bishop said:

; While helping my friend deal with his new computer (and the PC-Cillin that
; came with it), we found that hsi POP/SMTP addresses had been changed to
; re-route to a local port (i.e. it loops to a port at 127.0.0.1) and it
; kep his email from working -- he was using Eudora.

Only older versions of NAV did that.  The 2003 version basically
firewalls the POP and SMTP ports with the antivirus engine, and makes
no changes to your mail client setup.  This enables you to activate and
deactivate on the fly, as well as use +any+ standards compliant mail
client, not just the ones that Symantec deigns to provide autoconfig
abilities for.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan                   <*>                   www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled     <*>     Send personal mail to gordol

DISCLAIMER: This disclaimer notice copied without permission from the
author.

Previously on ne.internet.services, Michael F. Maggard said:

; > However, Symantec removed the
; > firewall from the Norton Integrator setup.  When you launch the UI from
; That's an install bug. If you install NSW and afterwards add or
; remove/re-add the firewall products they don't always get added in
; properly to the UI. Generally I've found installing the firewall first

Huh.  Come to think of it, I did install NSW first on both this machine
and the Win98 machine it replaces.

; then NSW ensures the firewall will get picked up and included. Of course
; one can always launch any of the components directly from the Start
; menus.

Yep.  Or by their systray icons, if running in background mode.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan                   <*>                   www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled     <*>     Send personal mail to gordol

"There needs to be debates, like we're going through. There needs to be
town hall meetings. There needs to be travel. This is a huge country."
George W. Bush, Larry King Live, Dec. 16, 1999

I was reading in the bathroom when I ran across an item written by
EskWI...@spamblock.panix.com on Thu, 10 Apr 2003 13:42:39 +0000 (UTC),
which said:

Good!  That's when I do all my own housekeeping, as well.

------
"Where are the dancing elephants?"

On 2003-04-10, EskWI...@spamblock.panix.com <EskWI...@spamblock.panix.com> wrote:

        I always run Spybot after Ad-Aware, so I couldn't answer
        your question. I do know that Spybot does catch things that
        Ad-Aware misses even if both have their respective latest
        updates installed.