Re: Ottawa tree list
Fred Schueler
Fred Schueler wrote:
>> Scots Pine is a serious invasive on sandy sites - ask Paul Catling or the
>> Trim Road crew at the OFNC meeting.
> Agreed, and I have read at least some of the Catling literature on invasive
> pines such as Scots, Austrian, Mugo. I'm just of the opinion that it is
> perhaps less of a problem than, for example, Cathartic Buckthorn. Scots
> Pine is easy to spot, requires light, doesn't spread vegetatively, has
> useful wood, and is not as generally weedy as some of the invasive
> angiosperms. It "could" be eradicated if there was moderate effort I would
> think. On a related note, It will be interesting to see if New Zealand can
> eradicate their invasive "wilding confers" such as Scots Pine.
* ...and it's an especial blessing that Norway Spruce doesn't
reproduce in Ontario.
We advertised for a workshop on invasive species on our land a few
springs ago, where we were going to cut down and count the rings on
all the Scots Pines, but nobody was able to come. This can serve as a
first announcement of a similar event this spring. Conifer
reproduction is so sexual, and the leaves so green in winter - I
wonder if any reproducing alien population has ever been taken out in
Eastern Ontario?
fred.
------------------------------------------------------------
Frederick W. Schueler & Aleta Karstad
Bishops Mills Natural History Centre - http://pinicola.ca/bmnhc.htm
Mudpuppy Night in Oxford Mills - http://pinicola.ca/mudpup1.htm
Daily Paintings - http://karstaddailypaintings.blogspot.com/
South Nation Basin Art & Science Book
http://pinicola.ca/books/SNR_book.htm
RR#2 Bishops Mills, Ontario, Canada K0G 1T0
on the Smiths Falls Limestone Plain 44* 52'N 75* 42'W
(613)258-3107 <bckcdb at istar.ca> http://pinicola.ca/
------------------------------------------------------------
Owen Clarkin
Regarding Norway Spruce:
I now quote from Voss and Reznicek's "Field Manual of Michigan Flora", 2012:
Picea abies (Norway Spruce)
" It occasionally escapes and has now been recorded as a wild plant from scattered stations throughout the state. First collected by D.Henson in Alger Co. in 1987 but noted as extensively naturalizing in the Lower Peninsula by Wade & Parfitt (2000)."
My comment: Should this be expected? Norway spruce has very different requirements for reproduction than Scots Pine and is likely to stay confined at a farmstead. Plant it in the forest however....I'm going to go out on a limb here and state that under the right circumstances, any sizable population of sexually-reproducing plants will "escape".
Owen
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Bohdan
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Naomi Langlois-Anderson
There’s a Scot’s Pine in the Alfred Bog (located on SNC property) that surprised the heck out of our Forest Tech! One very big specimen with many smaller ones dispersed around it. We cut down one of the smaller “saplings” that was about 45 cm in height. Our Tech used a dissecting scope and counted over 45 rings!
Who knows how the original Scots Pine got there? This is very far into the interior of the Alfred Bog. Even in its shrunken state, we walked a good 2 hours during “dry” conditions, in wet it would be double that.
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Ted Mosquin
What we have in the Alfred Bog is Jackpine.� Back in 1990 there was also another single (non fruiting) tree almost a kilometer WNW (UTM in the report) of the population described. In the Flora of the British Isles the name of this tree is spelled 'Scots Pine'.� So, it is Scots or Scotch and not Scot's.
Cheers,
Ted
On 2/19/2013 9:03 AM, Naomi Langlois-Anderson wrote:
There�s a Scot�s Pine in the Alfred Bog (located on SNC property) that surprised the heck out of our Forest Tech!� One very big specimen with many smaller ones dispersed around it. �We cut down one of the smaller �saplings� that was about 45 cm in height.� Our Tech used a dissecting scope and counted over 45 rings!
�
Who knows how the original Scots Pine got there?� This is very far into the interior of the Alfred Bog.� Even in its shrunken state, we walked a good 2 hours during �dry� conditions, in wet it would be double that.
�
�
Naomi� Langlois-Anderson�
Senior Fish & Wildlife Technician,
�
P. O. Box 2938 Victoria StreetFinch, ON K0C 1K0Telephone: 613-984-2948 ext. 250Fax: 613-984-2872Toll Free: 877-984-2948
��
From: natur...@googlegroups.com [mailto:natur...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bohdan
Sent: February-18-13 7:57 PM
To: natur...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [NatureList] Re: Ottawa tree list
�
Norway Spruce does indeed occasionally regenerate in Ontario.� There is an example of quite dense regeneration in partial shade at the Mono Tract of the Dufferin County Forest, originally planted around 1950.
�
Bohdan Kowalyk
�
----- Original Message -----
From: Owen Clarkin
Cc: Pieter Trip ; mcnicoll/dowling
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: [NatureList] Re: Ottawa tree list
�
That sounds like an interesting experiment for your Scots Pine.� I'd be sure to check it out.
Regarding Norway Spruce:
I now quote from Voss and Reznicek's "Field Manual of Michigan Flora", 2012:
Picea abies (Norway Spruce)
" It occasionally escapes and has now been recorded as a wild plant from scattered stations throughout the state.� First collected by D.Henson in Alger Co. in 1987 but noted as extensively naturalizing in the Lower Peninsula by Wade & Parfitt (2000)."
My comment: Should this be expected?� Norway spruce has very different requirements for reproduction than Scots Pine and is likely to stay confined at a farmstead.� Plant it in the forest however....I'm going to go out on a limb here and state that under the right circumstances, any sizable population of sexually-reproducing plants will "escape".�
Owen
On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 4:49 PM, Fred Schueler <bck...@istar.ca> wrote:
Quoting Owen Clarkin <wre...@gmail.com>:
Fred Schueler wrote:Scots Pine is a serious invasive on sandy sites - ask Paul Catling or the
Trim Road crew at the OFNC meeting.
�
Agreed, and I have read at least some of the Catling literature on invasive
pines such as Scots, Austrian, Mugo. �I'm just of the opinion that it is
perhaps less of a problem than, for example, Cathartic Buckthorn. �Scots
Pine is easy to spot, requires light, doesn't spread vegetatively, has
useful wood, and is not as generally weedy as some of the invasive
angiosperms. �It "could" be eradicated if there was moderate effort I would
think. �On a related note, It will be interesting to see if New Zealand can
eradicate their invasive "wilding confers" such as Scots Pine.
�
* ...and it's an especial blessing that Norway Spruce doesn't reproduce in Ontario.
We advertised for a workshop on invasive species on our land a few springs ago, where we were going to cut down and count the rings on all the Scots Pines, but nobody was able to come. This can serve as a first announcement of a similar event this spring. Conifer reproduction is so sexual, and the leaves so green in winter - I wonder if any reproducing alien population has ever been taken out in Eastern Ontario?
fred.
------------------------------------------------------------
� � � � �Frederick W. Schueler & Aleta Karstad
Bishops Mills Natural History Centre - http://pinicola.ca/bmnhc.htm
Mudpuppy Night in Oxford Mills - http://pinicola.ca/mudpup1.htm
Daily Paintings - http://karstaddailypaintings.blogspot.com/
� � � � �South Nation Basin Art & Science Book
� � � � �http://pinicola.ca/books/SNR_book.htm
� � RR#2 Bishops Mills, Ontario, Canada K0G 1T0
� on the Smiths Falls Limestone Plain 44* 52'N 75* 42'W
� �(613)258-3107 <bckcdb at istar.ca> http://pinicola.ca/
------------------------------------------------------------
Naomi Langlois-Anderson
I do have photos of the tree in question. If anyone else wants to look at the photos, please let me know.
Naomi
From: Naomi Langlois-Anderson
Sent: February-19-13 4:34 PM
To: Ted Mosquin
Subject: FW: [NatureList] Re: Ottawa tree list (Jackpine or Scots (Scotch) Pine in the Alfred Bog
Hi Mr. Mosquin,
The two Forest Techs with me that day were very certain of the identification. I appended photos of the cones on the tree and they do indeed extend backward and outward. Both Forester’s at my office agree that from the photos, it looks more like a Scots Pine than Jack Pine.
N
From: natur...@googlegroups.com [mailto:natur...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ted Mosquin
Sent: February-19-13 3:47 PM
To: natur...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [NatureList] Re: Ottawa tree list (Jackpine or Scots (Scotch) Pine in the Alfred Bog
I have visited that particular stand of 2-needled pine in the Alfred Bog in 1990. It contains 200 to 300 trees (description in the 'The Alfred bog; an Ecological Study." Don Cuddy first found this population and reported on it in
his Checklist in 1983. The cones of these trees curl around their stems which is a strong identifying characteristic of Jackpine. In Scots Pine the cones extend backwards and outward from the stem and and not upward and around. There are several other distinguishing
characteristics too. Jackpine is a common species in bogs across Canada. Scots (or Scotch) Pine is planted widely in southern Ontario and is a plant of sandy and light soils and gravelly places (according to the Trees of Canada).
What we have in the Alfred Bog is Jackpine. Back in 1990 there was also another single (non fruiting) tree almost a kilometer WNW (UTM in the report) of the population described. In the Flora of the British Isles the name of this tree is spelled 'Scots Pine'.
So, it is Scots or Scotch and not Scot's.
Cheers,
Ted
On 2/19/2013 9:03 AM, Naomi Langlois-Anderson wrote:
There’s a Scot’s Pine in the Alfred Bog (located on SNC property) that surprised the heck out of our Forest Tech! One very big specimen with many smaller ones dispersed around it. We cut down one of the smaller “saplings” that was about 45 cm in height. Our Tech used a dissecting scope and counted over 45 rings!
Who knows how the original Scots Pine got there? This is very far into the interior of the Alfred Bog. Even in its shrunken state, we walked a good 2 hours during “dry” conditions, in wet it would be double that.
Naomi Langlois-Anderson
Senior Fish & Wildlife Technician,
P. O. Box 29
38 Victoria Street
Finch, ON K0C 1K0
Telephone: 613-984-2948 ext. 250
Fax: 613-984-2872
Toll Free: 877-984-2948
From: natur...@googlegroups.com [mailto:natur...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bohdan
Sent: February-18-13 7:57 PM
To: natur...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [NatureList] Re: Ottawa tree list
Norway Spruce does indeed occasionally regenerate in Ontario. There is an example of quite dense regeneration in partial shade at the Mono Tract of the Dufferin County Forest, originally planted around 1950.
Bohdan Kowalyk
----- Original Message -----
From: Owen Clarkin
Cc: Pieter Trip ; mcnicoll/dowling
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: [NatureList] Re: Ottawa tree list
That sounds like an interesting experiment for your Scots Pine. I'd be sure to check it out.
Regarding Norway Spruce:
I now quote from Voss and Reznicek's "Field Manual of Michigan Flora", 2012:
Picea abies (Norway Spruce)
" It occasionally escapes and has now been recorded as a wild plant from scattered stations throughout the state. First collected by D.Henson in Alger Co. in 1987 but noted as extensively naturalizing in the Lower Peninsula by Wade & Parfitt (2000)."
My comment: Should this be expected? Norway spruce has very different requirements for reproduction than Scots Pine and is likely to stay confined at a farmstead. Plant it in the forest however....I'm going to go out on a limb here and state that under the right circumstances, any sizable population of sexually-reproducing plants will "escape".
Owen
On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 4:49 PM, Fred Schueler <bck...@istar.ca> wrote:
Quoting Owen Clarkin <wre...@gmail.com>:
Fred Schueler wrote:Scots Pine is a serious invasive on sandy sites - ask Paul Catling or the
Trim Road crew at the OFNC meeting.
Agreed, and I have read at least some of the Catling literature on invasive
pines such as Scots, Austrian, Mugo. I'm just of the opinion that it is
perhaps less of a problem than, for example, Cathartic Buckthorn. Scots
Pine is easy to spot, requires light, doesn't spread vegetatively, has
useful wood, and is not as generally weedy as some of the invasive
angiosperms. It "could" be eradicated if there was moderate effort I would
think. On a related note, It will be interesting to see if New Zealand can
eradicate their invasive "wilding confers" such as Scots Pine.
* ...and it's an especial blessing that Norway Spruce doesn't reproduce in Ontario.
We advertised for a workshop on invasive species on our land a few springs ago, where we were going to cut down and count the rings on all the Scots Pines, but nobody was able to come. This can serve as a first announcement of a similar event this spring. Conifer reproduction is so sexual, and the leaves so green in winter - I wonder if any reproducing alien population has ever been taken out in Eastern Ontario?
fred.
------------------------------------------------------------
Frederick W. Schueler & Aleta Karstad
Bishops Mills Natural History Centre - http://pinicola.ca/bmnhc.htm
Mudpuppy Night in Oxford Mills - http://pinicola.ca/mudpup1.htm
Daily Paintings - http://karstaddailypaintings.blogspot.com/
South Nation Basin Art & Science Book
RR#2 Bishops Mills, Ontario, Canada K0G 1T0
on the Smiths Falls Limestone Plain 44* 52'N 75* 42'W
(613)258-3107 <bckcdb at istar.ca> http://pinicola.ca/
------------------------------------------------------------
--
Owen Clarkin
I'll just add that Scots pine also has characteristic bright orange-red bark in the upper half of the tree; this colouration is acquired at an early age. Jack pine has very different dark greyish-brown bark.
Owen
I have visited that particular stand of 2-needled pine in the Alfred Bog in 1990. It contains 200 to 300 trees (description in the 'The Alfred bog; an Ecological Study." Don Cuddy first found this population and reported on it in his Checklist in 1983. The cones of these trees curl around their stems which is a strong identifying characteristic of Jackpine. In Scots Pine the cones extend backwards and outward from the stem and and not upward and around. There are several other distinguishing characteristics too. Jackpine is a common species in bogs across Canada. Scots (or Scotch) Pine is planted widely in southern Ontario and is a plant of sandy and light soils and gravelly places (according to the Trees of Canada).
What we have in the Alfred Bog is Jackpine. Back in 1990 there was also another single (non fruiting) tree almost a kilometer WNW (UTM in the report) of the population described. In the Flora of the British Isles the name of this tree is spelled 'Scots Pine'. So, it is Scots or Scotch and not Scot's.
Cheers,
Ted
On 2/19/2013 9:03 AM, Naomi Langlois-Anderson wrote:
There’s a Scot’s Pine in the Alfred Bog (located on SNC property) that surprised the heck out of our Forest Tech! One very big specimen with many smaller ones dispersed around it. We cut down one of the smaller “saplings” that was about 45 cm in height. Our Tech used a dissecting scope and counted over 45 rings!
Who knows how the original Scots Pine got there? This is very far into the interior of the Alfred Bog. Even in its shrunken state, we walked a good 2 hours during “dry” conditions, in wet it would be double that.
Naomi Langlois-Anderson
Senior Fish & Wildlife Technician,
P. O. Box 2938 Victoria StreetFinch, ON K0C 1K0Telephone: 613-984-2948 ext. 250Fax: 613-984-2872Toll Free: 877-984-2948
From: natur...@googlegroups.com [mailto:natur...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bohdan
Sent: February-18-13 7:57 PM
To: natur...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [NatureList] Re: Ottawa tree list
Norway Spruce does indeed occasionally regenerate in Ontario. There is an example of quite dense regeneration in partial shade at the Mono Tract of the Dufferin County Forest, originally planted around 1950.
Bohdan Kowalyk
----- Original Message -----
From: Owen Clarkin
Cc: Pieter Trip ; mcnicoll/dowling
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: [NatureList] Re: Ottawa tree list
That sounds like an interesting experiment for your Scots Pine. I'd be sure to check it out.
Regarding Norway Spruce:
I now quote from Voss and Reznicek's "Field Manual of Michigan Flora", 2012:
Picea abies (Norway Spruce)
" It occasionally escapes and has now been recorded as a wild plant from scattered stations throughout the state. First collected by D.Henson in Alger Co. in 1987 but noted as extensively naturalizing in the Lower Peninsula by Wade & Parfitt (2000)."
My comment: Should this be expected? Norway spruce has very different requirements for reproduction than Scots Pine and is likely to stay confined at a farmstead. Plant it in the forest however....I'm going to go out on a limb here and state that under the right circumstances, any sizable population of sexually-reproducing plants will "escape".
Owen
On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 4:49 PM, Fred Schueler <bck...@istar.ca> wrote:
Quoting Owen Clarkin <wre...@gmail.com>:
Fred Schueler wrote:Scots Pine is a serious invasive on sandy sites - ask Paul Catling or the
Trim Road crew at the OFNC meeting.
Agreed, and I have read at least some of the Catling literature on invasive
pines such as Scots, Austrian, Mugo. I'm just of the opinion that it is
perhaps less of a problem than, for example, Cathartic Buckthorn. Scots
Pine is easy to spot, requires light, doesn't spread vegetatively, has
useful wood, and is not as generally weedy as some of the invasive
angiosperms. It "could" be eradicated if there was moderate effort I would
think. On a related note, It will be interesting to see if New Zealand can
eradicate their invasive "wilding confers" such as Scots Pine.
* ...and it's an especial blessing that Norway Spruce doesn't reproduce in Ontario.
We advertised for a workshop on invasive species on our land a few springs ago, where we were going to cut down and count the rings on all the Scots Pines, but nobody was able to come. This can serve as a first announcement of a similar event this spring. Conifer reproduction is so sexual, and the leaves so green in winter - I wonder if any reproducing alien population has ever been taken out in Eastern Ontario?
fred.
------------------------------------------------------------
Frederick W. Schueler & Aleta Karstad
Bishops Mills Natural History Centre - http://pinicola.ca/bmnhc.htm
Mudpuppy Night in Oxford Mills - http://pinicola.ca/mudpup1.htm
Daily Paintings - http://karstaddailypaintings.blogspot.com/
South Nation Basin Art & Science Book
RR#2 Bishops Mills, Ontario, Canada K0G 1T0
on the Smiths Falls Limestone Plain 44* 52'N 75* 42'W
(613)258-3107 <bckcdb at istar.ca> http://pinicola.ca/
------------------------------------------------------------
Naomi Langlois-Anderson
They are not posted but I can send them directly for those who don’t have dial-up.
Cheers,
Naomi
Bill Bowman
If you are interested, you can post pictures or documents on Google Drive. You only have to sell your soul to Google.
It's a handy way to post large Powerpoints or photos for free, and them share them with a restricted list or the whole world if you want.
You can also post photos to several other free sites, such as Picasa (Google, again).
Bill
Stew Hamill
Stew