Who to replace Ignatieff - and defeat Harper ?
macksamillion
war room dirties and win. He's forever scarred with the fact that he's spent more time
out of Canada than in it. And Bob Rae? - His term as Premier in Ontario will forever act
like an anvil on his ankle.
So who?
My choice would be one of three:
Frank McKenna
Gerard Kennedy or
Danny Williams (not kidding)
Any one of the above 3 would represent Canadians' and Canada's interests before those of
his own. We need that for a major change.
Liberal MPs plot early retirement for Ignatieff
December 06, 2009 - The Star
Last year at this time, the Liberals were trying to get rid of St�phane Dion and put
themselves in the hands of their saviour, Michael Ignatieff. After 12 months, they believe
that Bob Rae, the former NDP premier of Ontario now turned Liberal, is the new saviour.
Last year the opportunity to reboot the party's fortunes came after Dion forced the
Liberals to embrace the Bloc-supported coalition with the NDP. This year the spark might
be Ignatieff's support for the HST. The question many ask is whether Ignatieff's
leadership will last until the end of the year.
Since Pierre Trudeau, no Liberal leader has left on his own terms. John Turner was shown
the door by the Chr�tienites; Jean Chr�tien was forced out by Martinites; we know what
happened to Dion and now we see Ignatieff is on the same path.
Since last Tuesday's "special" caucus meeting called by the leader to tell MPs to support
the controversial HST, doubts about Ignatieff's ability to lead the party are surfacing
more frequently. Many MPs openly oppose the HST, and those who backed the party's stand,
like Rae, express their support only in private. No one is defending the leader in public,
in the caucus or with the media. Basically, Ignatieff is alone and the question of loyalty
is becoming a huge obstacle to his leadership.
Contrary to the superficial unity Liberals show in the House, a revolt is brewing
underneath.
Trudeau once said that MPs are nobodies 100 yards away from Parliament. Things, it would
seem, are changing. In fact, it looks like the real politics are taking place away from
the Hill, especially during after-hours meetings in Ottawa restaurants like Mamma Teresa,
trendy Hy's or in the dimly lit corners of the Ch�teau Laurier. Lately, the topic has been
the HST and Ignatieff's leadership. In fact, one of those after-hours meetings took place
last Tuesday at the Ch�teau.
It all started after a gathering to mark the retirement of Liberal Senator Jerry Grafstein
from the Hill. Among those present were Ignatieff and Rae.
After they had all feted the popular senator with great words of love and affection, some
MPs � invited by Rae for a drink � moved "100 yards away from the Hill" into the Ch�teau
Laurier. Here the fa�ade of unity vanished, the true face of today's Liberal party
materialized and the real work of politics, which no longer takes place on the Hill, was
in full swing.
Glen Pearson, an MP from London and one of those present for the nightcap with Rae, said
that in his opinion Ignatieff was losing the loyalty of the party and Rae was "the only
one the party trusts." Carolyn Bennet, also present at the meeting, said that David
McGuinty, Justin Trudeau and others are already planning their leadership runs and it was
time for Rae to do something.
Then the conversation shifted to some concrete proposals. In particular, they told Rae
that many MPs believe he should become "the deputy leader with authority to manage all the
files in the House of Commons," basically a kind of CEO. They also said that Ignatieff
shouldn't be asking questions in the House but travelling throughout Canada "attending
functions."
Some also said that Ralph Goodale should be removed from his House responsibilities
because, they said, he brings no added value to the party, no expertise, no financial
wherewithal and doesn't deliver seats in his own province.
Rae also was critical of the performance of the leader but said he was not interested in a
coup d'�tat. However, he added that his loyalty is solely to the Liberal party.
Ruby Dhalla said that loyalty is a two-way street and accused the party of not doing
enough to nurture the next generation of leaders. During the conversation, it was
suggested that a group of MPs should meet with chief of staff Peter Donolo and present
some of these proposals as soon as possible.
This was not an isolated meeting between a few MPs � it's the dominant theme of discussion
among almost all Liberal MPs uncertain about their future.
I wouldn't be surprised if Ignatieff were to reconsider his political future and go back
to his beloved academic world before the end of the year.
Angelo Persichilli is the political editor of Corriere Canadese. His column appears
Sunday.
dipsy
<macksa...@work.now> wrote:
>Certainly it's time to think about the rather obvious: Ignatieff cannot take on Harper's
>war room dirties and win. He's forever scarred with the fact that he's spent more time
>out of Canada than in it. And Bob Rae? - His term as Premier in Ontario will forever act
>like an anvil on his ankle.
All Canadian politicians stink to high heaven. They represent Bay
Street, not Main Street. Where have you been? What's the point of
reading the pandering media? They stink too, they're corporate
entities writing to suit their master's taste. You know not one
politician in Ottawa got their from the money of the rabble's nickel
and dime campaign contributions. Quit reading the Big Business News
and maybe your head will come out of your ass and some grass will grow
from under your feet. We need real party politics that represent the
people and not Big Business. Fuckem all, start new, heads should roll.
Pat Bay
"dipsy" <dipsy...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:842oj5li655q1gnnt...@4ax.com...
Well Big Mouth, if you figure a new party would do that, start one (and not
one of these idiotic quasi American "freedom" parties, you'll never get the
wide voter support with a party like that - Joe and Mary Sixpack are more
interested in economics than a few people trying to import American Redneck
values here).
Let us know how you progress.
dipsy
wrote:
I live in Vancouver. Maybe you read wrong. I told you to quit reading
that corporate news, its already dumbed you down.
Pete
> I live in Vancouver. Maybe you read wrong. I told you to quit reading
> that corporate news, its already dumbed you down.
>
>
I live in Toronto, and you assholes think that we're stupid.
How can that be possible? We have far more Orientals than you do!
And according to Crap Detector, they're far smarter! :)
Charlie Yankee
> Certainly it's time to think about the rather obvious: Ignatieff cannot take on Harper's
> war room dirties and win. He's forever scarred with the fact that he's spent more time
> out of Canada than in it. And Bob Rae? - His term as Premier in Ontario will forever act
> like an anvil on his ankle.
>
> So who?
>
> My choice would be one of three:
> Frank McKenna
> Gerard Kennedy or
> Danny Williams (not kidding)
The problem isn't the leader, it's the party. Even a squeaky clean
guy like Stephane Dion couldn't take the Chretien stink out of the
Liberal Party. There's not enough Febreeze to cover *that* up!
Pat Bay
Of course, you're already there..
being dumbed down that is...
Noe about that political party you want.. First thing is to find people who
believe in what you have to offer..
..and I'm not thinking of the drunken guys at the Patricia on Welfare
Wednesday who will listen to anyone.
Pat Bay
"Pete" <pete...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.25a6016ad...@News.Individual.NET...
> dipsy wrote
>> I live in Vancouver. Maybe you read wrong. I told you to quit reading
>> that corporate news, its already dumbed you down.
>>
>>
>
> I live in Toronto, and you assholes think that we're stupid.
No we don't. We just don't believe you when T'rana thinks it is the centre
of the Canadian Universe.
>
> How can that be possible? We have far more Orientals than you do!
So.. meet one or two.
Canuck57
> Certainly it's time to think about the rather obvious: Ignatieff cannot take on Harper's
> war room dirties and win. He's forever scarred with the fact that he's spent more time
> out of Canada than in it. And Bob Rae? - His term as Premier in Ontario will forever act
> like an anvil on his ankle.
>
> So who?
>
> My choice would be one of three:
> Frank McKenna
> Gerard Kennedy or
> Danny Williams (not kidding)
>
> Any one of the above 3 would represent Canadians' and Canada's interests before those of
> his own. We need that for a major change.
>
>
>
> Liberal MPs plot early retirement for Ignatieff
> December 06, 2009 - The Star
>
> themselves in the hands of their saviour, Michael Ignatieff. After 12 months, they believe
> that Bob Rae, the former NDP premier of Ontario now turned Liberal, is the new saviour.
>
> Last year the opportunity to reboot the party's fortunes came after Dion forced the
> Liberals to embrace the Bloc-supported coalition with the NDP. This year the spark might
> be Ignatieff's support for the HST. The question many ask is whether Ignatieff's
> leadership will last until the end of the year.
>
> Since Pierre Trudeau, no Liberal leader has left on his own terms. John Turner was shown
> happened to Dion and now we see Ignatieff is on the same path.
>
> Since last Tuesday's "special" caucus meeting called by the leader to tell MPs to support
> the controversial HST, doubts about Ignatieff's ability to lead the party are surfacing
> more frequently. Many MPs openly oppose the HST, and those who backed the party's stand,
> like Rae, express their support only in private. No one is defending the leader in public,
> in the caucus or with the media. Basically, Ignatieff is alone and the question of loyalty
> is becoming a huge obstacle to his leadership.
>
> Contrary to the superficial unity Liberals show in the House, a revolt is brewing
> underneath.
>
> Trudeau once said that MPs are nobodies 100 yards away from Parliament. Things, it would
> seem, are changing. In fact, it looks like the real politics are taking place away from
> the Hill, especially during after-hours meetings in Ottawa restaurants like Mamma Teresa,
> the HST and Ignatieff's leadership. In fact, one of those after-hours meetings took place
>
> It all started after a gathering to mark the retirement of Liberal Senator Jerry Grafstein
> from the Hill. Among those present were Ignatieff and Rae.
>
> After they had all feted the popular senator with great words of love and affection, some
> Laurier. Here the fa�ade of unity vanished, the true face of today's Liberal party
> materialized and the real work of politics, which no longer takes place on the Hill, was
> in full swing.
>
> Glen Pearson, an MP from London and one of those present for the nightcap with Rae, said
> that in his opinion Ignatieff was losing the loyalty of the party and Rae was "the only
> one the party trusts." Carolyn Bennet, also present at the meeting, said that David
> McGuinty, Justin Trudeau and others are already planning their leadership runs and it was
> time for Rae to do something.
>
> Then the conversation shifted to some concrete proposals. In particular, they told Rae
> that many MPs believe he should become "the deputy leader with authority to manage all the
> files in the House of Commons," basically a kind of CEO. They also said that Ignatieff
> shouldn't be asking questions in the House but travelling throughout Canada "attending
> functions."
>
> Some also said that Ralph Goodale should be removed from his House responsibilities
> because, they said, he brings no added value to the party, no expertise, no financial
> wherewithal and doesn't deliver seats in his own province.
>
> Rae also was critical of the performance of the leader but said he was not interested in a
>
> Ruby Dhalla said that loyalty is a two-way street and accused the party of not doing
> enough to nurture the next generation of leaders. During the conversation, it was
> suggested that a group of MPs should meet with chief of staff Peter Donolo and present
> some of these proposals as soon as possible.
>
> among almost all Liberal MPs uncertain about their future.
>
> I wouldn't be surprised if Ignatieff were to reconsider his political future and go back
> to his beloved academic world before the end of the year.
>
> Angelo Persichilli is the political editor of Corriere Canadese. His column appears
> Sunday.
Get someone real. Say someone fromt he Dragons Den. Seriously, someone
that can speak english and isn't an insatiable welch debtor. Someone
who knows how to manage money and people, and not the other way around.
All the liberals have are losers and debtors. Go external and has
money. I say this because if they have their own money, then most
likely would take the job to be of service to the country and not to
alterior motives. You know, not as corrupt and in someone elses pockets
types.
One good thing about Dhalla, isn`t she the one that thinks Hindu house
servants should be paid for by the government? You racists aught to
like that.
But at least she believe in the underground economy on her 1/3rd tax
free 6 digit salary.
http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/Article/631022
You liberals aught to be assamed of yourseves for keeping her on. She
would be better in a Bollywood Extra.
Canuck57
> dipsy wrote
>> I live in Vancouver. Maybe you read wrong. I told you to quit reading
>> that corporate news, its already dumbed you down.
>>
>>
>
> I live in Toronto, and you assholes think that we're stupid.
I don't think you are stupid, I know you are stupid. Miller anyone?
> How can that be possible? We have far more Orientals than you do!
Than Hongcouver, not likely.
> And according to Crap Detector, they're far smarter! :)
I think they are and I am a WASP.
Canuck57
Sooner or later people are going to get tired of T'runta being a sink
hole for welfare money. Even Northwestern Ontario has talk of changing
the borders to Manitoba as everything Ontario is about Welfare T'runta
and welfare auto. The rest can go to hell.
Canuck57
Better choice than the last two, Iggy and Dion were disasters.
Canuck57
Agreed with the party, but Dion squeeky clean? OK, never did a damned
thing his entire life. So clean you could eat off his bib.
Liberal party is a waste of time. If I were a Liberal and I liked the
left, I would vote NDP, at least I know jestor Laytoon is an ass and
knows it.
macksamillion
news:f33bd420-4789-43d0...@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
The problem isn't the leader, it's the party. Even a squeaky clean
guy like Stephane Dion couldn't take the Chretien stink out of the
Liberal Party. There's not enough Febreeze to cover *that* up!
You lose again. Stephane Dion didn't lose because of anything emanating from the Chretien
era.
He lost control because he couldn't play as dirty as Stephen Harper and his gang can.
Ignatieff is showing he's no match for Harper's dirty tactics, either. He should have
been well-prepared for the 'Ignatieff has been out of the country for umpteen years' ploy
and yet he wasn't.
Whoever Ignatieff has advising him, he's done some bad choosing.
Put someone into Liberal leadership like Frank McKenna or Danny Williams and that
bully-boy Harper would be sent bags and baggage back to Alberta faster than you could say
"shut the door on the way out".
macksamillion
> On 30/12/2009 3:38 PM, macksamillion wrote:
>> Certainly it's time to think about the rather obvious: Ignatieff cannot take on
>> Harper's
>> war room dirties and win. He's forever scarred with the fact that he's spent more time
>> out of Canada than in it. And Bob Rae? - His term as Premier in Ontario will forever
>> act
>> like an anvil on his ankle.
>>
>> So who?
>>
>> My choice would be one of three:
>> Frank McKenna
>> Gerard Kennedy or
>> Danny Williams (not kidding)
>>
>> Any one of the above 3 would represent Canadians' and Canada's interests before those
>> of
>> his own. We need that for a major change.
"Canuck57" <Canu...@nospam.com> wrote in message news:jbf%m.644$ay....@newsfe02.iad...
> Get someone real. Say someone fromt he Dragons Den. Seriously, someone that can speak
> english and isn't an insatiable welch debtor. Someone who knows how to manage money and
> people, and not the other way around.
>
> All the liberals have are losers and debtors. Go external and has money. I say this
> because if they have their own money, then most likely would take the job to be of
> service to the country and not to alterior motives. You know, not as corrupt and in
> someone elses pockets types.
Oh, boy - you want to take a good look at Danny Williams background and whether he has
money or not. And he's not only a Premier of a province, he's also a very, very effective
one for the people of that province - and how he's turned their economy around. Paul
Martin wasn't a poor man either, and look how many years HE devoted to public service.
You're not too informed, are you?
>
> One good thing about Dhalla, isn`t she the one that thinks Hindu house servants should
> be paid for by the government? You racists aught to like that.
Sounds a tad 'racist' from YOUR direction, doesn't it? Wouldn't the better issue to
question be to
ask why FOREIGN caregivers are being allowed into Canada when we have huge numbers of
uneducated, unemployed females right here in this country? Who's in charge of the
immigration department these days, dummy?
> But at least she believe in the underground economy on her 1/3rd tax free 6 digit
> salary.
>
> You liberals aught to be assamed of yourseves for keeping her on. She would be better
> in a Bollywood Extra.
Yeah, she's such a blight to the Liberals, but Rahim Jaffer, a Tory MP type who's been
arrested and charged with drunk driving and cocaine possession, he's not an embarassment
at all.
The Doctor
Danny Williams? I think I will stick with McKenna.
I do not want CIA agetns Manley or Tobin in the office!
--
Member - Liberal International This is doc...@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doc...@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.myspace.com/502748630
Merry Christmas 2009 and Happy New Year 2010
The Doctor
10/01 about Jaffoff!
Charlie Yankee
> "CharlieYankee" <charlieyan...@live.com> wrote in message
>
> news:f33bd420-4789-43d0...@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
> The problem isn't the leader, it's the party. Even a squeaky clean
> guy like Stephane Dion couldn't take the Chretien stink out of the
> Liberal Party. There's not enough Febreeze to cover *that* up!
>
> You lose again. Stephane Dion didn't lose because of anything emanating from the Chretien
> era.
> He lost control because he couldn't play as dirty as Stephen Harper and his gang can.
>
> Ignatieff is showing he's no match for Harper's dirty tactics, either. He should have
> been well-prepared for the 'Ignatieff has been out of the country for umpteen years' ploy
> and yet he wasn't.
> Whoever Ignatieff has advising him, he's done some bad choosing.
Dirty tactics? Oh please. Nobody played the game dirtier than
Chretien and Warren Kinsella, and Kinsella's back helping Ignatieff.
The Liberals have two main problems:
One is the whole "we know better than you do how to live your life"
attitude, which had its clearest expression in the imfamous "beer and
popcorn" rant of Scott Reid and its most visible (and costly) symbol
in the long gun registry. It has subsided somewhat since the party
shed the likes of Sheila Copps and Allan Rock, but it's still there.
Bob Rae is certainly capable of carrying that government-as-mommy
banner. The only this is that Canadians don't respond as positively
to it anymore.
The second problem is the sleaze (or Chretien) factor. In Chretien's
mind, Martin's mistake was to actually try to fix the problems Da Boss
left behind with regard to Adscam. Chretien would have simply ignored
the scandal and continued to claim that he was trying to save Canada,
and that the end therefore justified the means. After all, you can't
make an omelette without breaking some eggs (or in the Liberals' case,
without greasing the pan). The sad part is that Canadians would have
probably bought it. Bob Rae, the party-hopping opportunist is
probably quite capable of carrying on that particular Liberal
tradition as well.
What you don't like is that Harper plays the game so well. He's not
an easy target like a Joe Clark or a Stockwell Day. He's every bit as
tough a "street fighter" as Jean Chretien was, but he also happens to
be smarter and more principled. And bit by bit, he's tearing down the
rotting, bloated paternalistic state erected by Trudeau and Pearson
and preserved by Mulroney and Chretien.
> Put someone into Liberal leadership like Frank McKenna or Danny Williams and that
> bully-boy Harper would be sent bags and baggage back to Alberta faster than you could say
> "shut the door on the way out".
Frank McKenna wouldn't actually be a bad choice. He's definitely from
the pro-business side of the party.
But the important thing in all of this is that the Liberals will have
to fight and fight hard to get back into power, and even if they do
win, it's unlikely to be a majority government. In the meantime, I'll
simply sit back and enjoy the fact that we have a strong, truly
conservative Prime Minister, and a leader of the opposition who comes
from the Turner/Martin side of the Liberal Party, and an NDP leader
whose self-regard is so great that he's likely to turn into a flower
one of these days.
2010 looks like it's going to be a very good year. :-)
Canuck57
> "Charlie Yankee"<charli...@live.com> wrote in message
> news:f33bd420-4789-43d0...@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
> The problem isn't the leader, it's the party. Even a squeaky clean
> guy like Stephane Dion couldn't take the Chretien stink out of the
> Liberal Party. There's not enough Febreeze to cover *that* up!
>
> You lose again. Stephane Dion didn't lose because of anything emanating from the Chretien
> era.
> He lost control because he couldn't play as dirty as Stephen Harper and his gang can.
Actually not. Dion had ad-scam stench all over him. Either he knew, or
was too stupid to see it. In either case not suitable as a PM that
needs to keep a lid on corruption as a fudiciary responsibility.
Then there was the case of his english. Couldn't speak to a 5 year old
when sober does not help much as 72% of this country does not speak
quebecois, I say quebecois as it isn't real french, just a
bastardization of it.
Most Canadians would be better off learning cantonese or spanish.
> Ignatieff is showing he's no match for Harper's dirty tactics, either. He should have
> been well-prepared for the 'Ignatieff has been out of the country for umpteen years' ploy
> and yet he wasn't.
> Whoever Ignatieff has advising him, he's done some bad choosing.
Nope again. Iggy already had his own stench before he was leader of of
the opposition. Just an opportunistic POC looking for a Canadian
pension. With UK and the US on to him, he came back.
> Put someone into Liberal leadership like Frank McKenna or Danny Williams and that
> bully-boy Harper would be sent bags and baggage back to Alberta faster than you could say
> "shut the door on the way out".
Trouble is the LPC is morally and ethically bankrpt. Their best hope is
to go outside of the party. Too much internal lip smacking and stench.
Canuck57
Not racist at all. I would have shut down Dahllia's practice and booted
her out of the party for such stunts. I would cite a moral conduct not
worth the integrity of our party.
As stated, using her MP status for her mothers Juno visit, sub par
"servant" wages, not properly filed on the CRA, stupidity of the private
members bill not being in Canada's best interest.... she is a pandering
s.... And probably lots I forgot about.
As for any MP getting drunk driving and cocaine possession, their
conviction day is the last day in the party. Yep, that one is on Harpo.
But if you follow my posts, I tend to believe Ottawa itself is a puss
hole of corruption. Don't get me wrong, while I think the ons are
better, they sure as hell are no beed of roases.
I am royal pissed at Mulroney who has in fact admited being paid off
selling out Canadians and associated tax evasion. And even the liberals
paid him $2.1 million to shut up on the mater, and it has never been
paid back.
They are all in the same cesspool and Iggy isn't trying to change
anything other than who writes the corruption cheques.
In fact if I were PM, I would create a new law. You cannot be a MP if
convicted of a wanton crime of violence. You cannot hold office if your
net worth is less than $100,000. Probably 25% of the sitting MPs today
would have to vacate. The minimum net worth is to get people not as
corruptable and perpetual debtor types.
And I don't vote for NDP, Cons or Libs, they are despicable.