The Ugly Canadian -- Harper!
penny
Harper is ruining our once enviable reputation around the world.
In the following article Murray Dobbin lays out nine ways in which he
is doing this.
The biggie, of couse, is climate change. But, there are eight other
ways in which Harper is ruining our reputation. If you cannot guiess
them check out the following article:
http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2009/12/17/TheUglyCanadian/
Penny
PM@TimHortons
"penny" <gor...@sentex.net > wrote in message
news:guvnj5tg6a4l49bsp...@4ax.com...
Harper was never "a Canadian". He has vacillated between being "an Albertan" and "an
American flunky" since his inception as a political wannabe. He's an embarassment on the
world stage, and a dangerous, arrogant, self-serving politician on the Canadian stage.
Pat Bay
"PM@TimHortons" <P...@TimHortons.ca> wrote in message
news:xST_m.2$Bx...@newsfe02.iad...
Nonsense. Everyone who was born here is a Canadian.
Michael Igantiff is less Canadian than Harper.
yp
Dobbin forgot to mention Omar Khadr, a Canadian born kid who is left
to rot by Harper in the Guantanamo Gulag, while all other Western
nations have repatriated their nationals long ago.
penny
wrote:
Ignatieff's roots go far back into Canadian history -- as far back as
John A MacDonald.
According to the author of the following article:
" Ignatieff as potential PM has a more impressive pure laine Canadian
elite lineage than any previous PM. "
http://www.inroadsjournal.ca/newsletter/2009/fall_whitaker.html
Penny
>
>
penny
wrote:
True, but still Harper is Canadian by birth. However, he certainly
isn't with the majority of Canadians on what Canadian values are.
One only has to read Dobbin's article to see that.
Penny
AntiSpin
lol...like that matters.
Ignatieff's policies are aligned so closely to Harper's that there is
virtually no difference. The posters who argue that there is are literally
arguing small variations in policy, variations that make no difference in
the long run.Does it matter that Iggy spent 30 years outside Canada? No. Nor
does the fact that Harper attended university in Calgary (he was born in
Ontario).
As for Harper ruining our reputation, much of what you think Canada is about
are myths anyway. Given that Ignatieff has supported almost all of the Tory
agenda, why do you think he would do any better protecting Mythical Canada
abroad?
AntiSpin
> On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 17:56:53 -0800, "PM@TimHortons"
>
> isn't with the majority of Canadians on what Canadian values are.
>
> One only has to read Dobbin's article to see that.
>
> Penny
lol.....and who is the arbiter of Canadian values? Dobbin? The vast majority
of his claims pre-existed the Harper government; they were policies
undertaken before 2006, and were sound policies then. The claim that Harper
snubbed China over China's abortion policies is ludicrious and without
merit.
I'd go through Dobbin's list point by point but why bother, it's the
Tyee...where facts don't matter and opinion is created direct from space -
like Dobbin's critique of Harper's policy towards Latin America. Pure
fiction. According to Dobbin, "(it) is difficult to assess the international
impact of each of these examples..." which is the only accurate thing he
wrote.
Dobbin exhibits a complete lack of foreign policy perpsective - according to
his column, he beleives that Canadaa should undertake policies that make us
look good to foreign governments and foreign media. The plain fact is all
foreign policy is local, meaning we undertake policies that benefit Canada
first and foremost. No prime minister in the history of this country has
pursued a foreign policy other than to benefit Canada and Canadians.
International relations is not based on making others feel good about you
and your country.
lol
The Doctor
Ignatieff is MORE of a Patriot to Canada that Harper is!
--
Member - Liberal International This is doc...@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doc...@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.myspace.com/502748630
Merry Christmas 2009 and Happy New Year 2010
Charlie Yankee
Harper is definitely ruining the reputation of Canada as a naive,
testicularly-challenged do-gooder that confuses being liked with being
respected. It's nice to have a PM who doesn't give a crap what Bono
thinks (or Murray Dobbin, for that matter).
> In the following article Murray Dobbin lays out nine ways in which he
> is doing this.
Dobbin is one of the worst offenders in terms of the "we own and
define Canadian values" attitude on the part of the left in this
country. The only "ugly Canadian" I can see is a shrill, arrogant
left-coaster whose entire worldview boils down to "corporations bad,
US bad, military bad, social spending good, government control good".
penny
It doesn't matter a hoot when you consider we are no more than tiny
grains of sand, here for no more than a moment in time. :-).
>Ignatieff's policies are aligned so closely to Harper's that there is
>virtually no difference. The posters who argue that there is are literally
>arguing small variations in policy, variations that make no difference in
>the long run.Does it matter that Iggy spent 30 years outside Canada? No. Nor
>does the fact that Harper attended university in Calgary (he was born in
>Ontario).
There is undoubtedly a difference between Ignatieff's political
philosophy and Harper's on many issues including human rights, climate
change, and the economy. However, I don't believe that to date
Ignatieff has shown much leadership
It doesn't help that Harper repeatedly abuses and lies about anything
the liberals, NDP and Bloc have to say about their issues and their
criticism of his policies. They are all constantly on the defensive
with Harper . How is it possible for any leader to be effective in the
kind of nasty milieu that man has created in parliament, a man who
doesn't think twice about abusing people , our democratic
institutions, and our future with global warming. .
>As for Harper ruining our reputation, much of what you think Canada is about
>are myths anyway. Given that Ignatieff has supported almost all of the Tory
>agenda, why do you think he would do any better protecting Mythical Canada
>abroad?
>
Compared to many other countries in this corporate controlled world we
had a good thing going in Canada until Harper.
Penny
penny
Thanks for bringing it up. A real shame on Canada !
Penny
penny
<charli...@live.com> wrote:
>On Dec 30, 8:35�pm, penny <gora...@sentex.net > wrote:
>> �Harper is ruining our once enviable reputation around the world.
>
>Harper is definitely ruining the reputation of Canada as a naive,
>testicularly-challenged do-gooder that confuses being liked with being
>respected. It's nice to have a PM who doesn't give a crap what Bono
>thinks (or Murray Dobbin, for that matter).
But Harper does give a crap what George Bush and his clones think and
what climate nay-sayers and his right wing evangelical church think.
Murray seems angelic in comparison. .
>
>> �In the following article Murray Dobbin lays out nine ways in which he
>> is doing this.
>
>Dobbin is one of the worst offenders in terms of the "we own and
>define Canadian values" attitude on the part of the left in this
>country. The only "ugly Canadian" I can see is a shrill, arrogant
>left-coaster whose entire worldview boils down to "corporations bad,
>US bad, military bad, social spending good, government control good".
Not such a bad worldview .
Corportism rules todays global economy, and while there are many good
corporations out there, too many are flouting human rights, workers'
rights and environmental protection. They are also increasing the
dichotomy of wealth between rich and not-so rich in our society and
around the world. .
The US was involved in many divisive and destructive actions under
Bush in the domestic and international arenas, and he has yet to be
brought to account for his crimes against humanity Thankfully the US
is now under the leadership of a good president who is already making
a difference in spite of beiing attacked every step of the way by the
Bush republicans.
The Bush military was bad. Our military under Harper is growing out
of sight for such a small country. The money being spent on it should
be going to sustain our economy and putting people to work.
Social and public spending is good and necessary to sustain a
democratic capitalist society.
Government control of coommodities necessary for our survival is good.
-- oil is an example.
Oil must be nationalized !
Penny
penny
n.politics,ont.politics,bc.politics,mtl.general
>
>"penny" <gor...@sentex.net > wrote in message
>news:ireoj59icmko0kq1a...@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 17:56:53 -0800, "PM@TimHortons"
>>
>> True, but still Harper is Canadian by birth. However, he certainly
>> isn't with the majority of Canadians on what Canadian values are.
>>
>> One only has to read Dobbin's article to see that.
>>
>> Penny
>
>lol.....and who is the arbiter of Canadian values? Dobbin? The vast majority
>of his claims pre-existed the Harper government; they were policies
>undertaken before 2006, and were sound policies then. The claim that Harper
>snubbed China over China's abortion policies is ludicrious and without
>merit.
How so ! Harper doesn't care about human rights so why did he snub
China. He didn't show concern about human rights in Gaza, Lebanon,
Burma, Honduras, Afghan detainees, the Sudan, etc.
As Murray Dobbin said, " Harper was in reality giving a sign to his
anti-abortion supporters that he would not cozy up to a country that
performs more abortions than the rest of the world combined. "
Harper said some years ago:
***************************************************************************
"Human rights commissions, as they are evolving, are an attack on our
fundamental freedoms and the basic existence of a democratic
society... It is in fact totalitarianism. I find this is very scary
stuff.
***************************************************************************
>
>I'd go through Dobbin's list point by point but why bother, it's the
>Tyee...where facts don't matter and opinion is created direct from space -
>like Dobbin's critique of Harper's policy towards Latin America. Pure
>fiction. According to Dobbin, "(it) is difficult to assess the international
>impact of each of these examples..." which is the only accurate thing he
>wrote.
>
>Dobbin exhibits a complete lack of foreign policy perpsective - according to
>his column, he beleives that Canadaa should undertake policies that make us
>look good to foreign governments and foreign media. The plain fact is all
>foreign policy is local, meaning we undertake policies that benefit Canada
>first and foremost. No prime minister in the history of this country has
>pursued a foreign policy other than to benefit Canada and Canadians.
>International relations is not based on making others feel good about you
>and your country.
You seem to have forgotten about the importance of the UN and
Multilateralism, 192 countries around the world working together to
try to make this world a better place. We were getting somewhere
before Bush, and now Harper.
Penny
Neil K
"Nobody" <n...@home.anymore> wrote in message
news:Xns9CF28219B14...@209.197.15.171...
> penny wrote:
>
>
>> You seem to have forgotten about the importance of the UN and
>> Multilateralism, 192 countries around the world working together
>> to try to make this world a better place. We were getting
>> somewhere before Bush, and now Harper.
>
> about what they say. Their sanctions are a joke.
=====================================================
So you maintain that UN Resolution 181 be ignored by all governments.
I never took you to be a Jew-baiter.
UN Resolution 181
>
Pat Bay
> On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 03:30:23 GMT, "Pat Bay" <p...@rocklandzbc.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"PM@TimHortons" <P...@TimHortons.ca> wrote in message
>>news:xST_m.2$Bx...@newsfe02.iad...
>>>
>>> "penny" <gor...@sentex.net > wrote in message
>>> news:guvnj5tg6a4l49bsp...@4ax.com...
>>>>
>>>> Harper is ruining our once enviable reputation around the world.
>>>>
>>>> In the following article Murray Dobbin lays out nine ways in which he
>>>> is doing this.
>>>>
>>>> The biggie, of couse, is climate change. But, there are eight other
>>>> ways in which Harper is ruining our reputation. If you cannot guiess
>>>> them check out the following article:
>>>>
>>>> http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2009/12/17/TheUglyCanadian/
>>>
>>>
>>> Harper was never "a Canadian". He has vacillated between being "an
>>> Albertan" and "an American flunky" since his inception as a political
>>> wannabe. He's an embarassment on the world stage, and a dangerous,
>>> arrogant, self-serving politician on the Canadian stage.
>>
>>Nonsense. Everyone who was born here is a Canadian.
>>
>>Michael Igantiff is less Canadian than Harper.
>
>
> Ignatieff's roots go far back into Canadian history -- as far back as
> John A MacDonald.
His family does, but then again so do many other long time established
Canadian families.
>
> According to the author of the following article:
>
> " Ignatieff as potential PM has a more impressive pure laine Canadian
> elite lineage than any previous PM. "
>
> http://www.inroadsjournal.ca/newsletter/2009/fall_whitaker.html
>
> Penny
So who wants an "elite" PM? We had one, Pierre Trudeau. One was a enough,
thank you.
Pat Bay
Sure. Adscam, not enough taxdollars being sent to Western Canada, and going
back even further, excessive spending by the Chretien and Trudeau Liberals,
Six and Five, the National Energy Programme, etc. etc...
Canada did build up an impressive portfolio when it came to foreign affairs
under the Liberals, so a 3/4 point there for you.
Neil K
"Neil K" <Ne...@deetspris.com> wrote in message
news:4b3d037c$1$5333$9a56...@news.aliant.net...
Sorry about that; here is the url
http://www.mideastweb.org/181.htm
>
>>
>
penny
>penny wrote:
>
>
>> You seem to have forgotten about the importance of the UN and
>> Multilateralism, 192 countries around the world working together
>> to try to make this world a better place. We were getting
>> somewhere before Bush, and now Harper.
>
>The UN is an impotent joke penny. Few countries, if any, actually care
>about what they say. Their sanctions are a joke.
I have to agree the UN needs an extreme makeover. Nevertheless it's
still an exceptionally important institution in this world of ours.
It keeps a modicum of global order with such institutions as the Law
of the Sea , and a myriad other international treaties that bind the
world together, where none existed before.
Penny
Pat Bay
The kid shouldn't have potted off U.S. Army soliders. The little punk should
go through the U.S. legal system first. Then we'll see about going to
his parents and getting them to pay for bringing him back home. We'll make
sure he clears customs like everyone else does.
I'm sure you would want to be the bleeding heart to the families of the
soldiers he potted off.
meowouch
Loosen up a nd Happy New Year to you too.
I wasn't saying or suggesting that you were a 'Jew hater'.
I as merely using that 'conclusion' to point out the untenable
positions we put ourselves into when we start throwing around wild
generalizations.
Penny's response is measured and correct ...... Years of East-West
cliques have forced Arabs, Africans many South and Latin American
groups to merge, form coalitions, in order to gain some defense from
being pushed around.
To my mind this ugly period in the UN is a good thing that will cause
an evolution to fairness in that body.
I'm sure that this is not something you fail to realize, but when you
or I or any of us fall into that trap it should be called.
The trap? Getting pissed off with a person or group and reacting by
showing our 'fangs'.
Yes I'm good at reconizeing this comes from constant practice
penny
>Don't get me wrong, I WISH they had some stroke. It just sucks that
>they don't.
It's too bad you see it that way. Aso I said the UN needs reform but
the world would not be as stable as it is without it. It's a
necessity.
Penny
penny
wrote:
You're living in a dream world.
Penny
>
anarchore
> Harper is ruining our once enviable reputation around the world.
>
> In the following article Murray Dobbin lays out nine ways in which he
> is doing this.
>
> The biggie, of couse, is climate change. But, there are eight other
> ways in which Harper is ruining our reputation. If you cannot guiess
> them check out the following article:
>
> http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2009/12/17/TheUglyCanadian/
>
Everywhere behind the curtain, are the you-know-whos
anarchore
> "penny" <gora...@sentex.net > wrote in message
>
> news:l6eoj5t8cn7gv6bi5...@4ax.com...
>
>
>
> > On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 03:30:23 GMT, "Pat Bay" <p...@rocklandzbc.com>
> > wrote:
>
> >>"PM@TimHortons" <P...@TimHortons.ca> wrote in message
> >>news:xST_m.2$Bx...@newsfe02.iad...
>
Penny is another Zionist Jew bringing down Canada... she thinks it's
OK, because she's a Liberal Zionist Jew.
anarchore
> "penny" <gora...@sentex.net > wrote in message
Now you're dreaming... is this newsgroup now just left wing Zionist
Jews debating right wing Zionist Jews? What a development, but sanity
is coming, and you are going to get what is coming to you!
ALL parties have pledged allegiance to the Bronfmans, that means more
war of terror, Afghanistan, anal probes at the airport... you know,
terra-forming of Canada so it is more like the natural state of
equilibrium you produce when you take power, a paradise like Israhell.
anarchore
> On Dec 31, 9:13 pm, Nobody <n...@home.anymore> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Neil K wrote:
>
> > > "Nobody" <n...@home.anymore> wrote in message
> > >news:Xns9CF28219B14...@209.197.15.171...
> > >> penny wrote:
>
> > >>> You seem to have forgotten about the importance of the UN and
> > >>> Multilateralism, 192 countries around the world working together
> > >>> to try to make this world a better place. We were getting
> > >>> somewhere before Bush, and now Harper.
>
> > >> The UN is an impotent joke penny. Few countries, if any,
> > >> actually care about what they say. Their sanctions are a joke.
>
> > > =====================================================
> > > So you maintain that UN Resolution 181 be ignored by all
> > > governments. I never took you to be a Jew-baiter.
>
> > > UN Resolution 181
>
> > Jeez but you are a stupid fuck.
>
> Loosen up a nd Happy New Year to you too.
> I wasn't saying or suggesting that you were a 'Jew hater'.
It always comes back to the most important issue in Canadian politics.
What the Jews think.
Top Ten Most Glaringly Blatant Instances of Zionist Control in Canada
for 2009
http://ziofascism.net/blog/2009/12/top-10-zionist-control-in-canada/
Suck on that, Zio-scum.
You fucks are so outta here. Soon.
Pat Bay
No, we were living a nightmare when the Trudeau Liberals and the Chretien
Liberals ran the country.
Canuck57
>> Ignatieff's policies are aligned so closely to Harper's that there is
>> virtually no difference. The posters who argue that there is are literally
>> arguing small variations in policy, variations that make no difference in
>> the long run.Does it matter that Iggy spent 30 years outside Canada? No. Nor
>> does the fact that Harper attended university in Calgary (he was born in
>> Ontario).
>
> There is undoubtedly a difference between Ignatieff's political
> philosophy and Harper's on many issues including human rights, climate
> change, and the economy. However, I don't believe that to date
> Ignatieff has shown much leadership
Difference or not, if Iggy is honest, how come he doesn't ask the
government to go after Ad-scamers and Mulroney? Maybe even cooperate.
How come he keeps MPs in the Liberal party that pay other under the
table with house servants and speical favors for relative immigrating?
Which is course is misuse of power, supported by the LPC.
Iggy is an opportunistic POC. Prefers to go after our soldiers, which
the liberals sent there. Might as well call him Taliban Iggy. Yet
Goodales stock maniulation and other Liberal dirt is supposed to be ignored.
Yep, Iggy has a different philosophy, US is his country. LMAO. Comes
back to Canada for 1/3rd tax free MP income and a fat 6 year indexed
pension on the public purse. So useless is he, that he has only worked
for covernment and academia. An elitest type personality for sure.
The only reason Liberals exist is that there isn't a better alternative.
Even Liberals at large are pissed with the choices the Liberals are
providing. If the NDP got a leader that wasn't a gutter slug the
Liberals would probably shrivel up in debt and die.
Pat Bay
"The Doctor" <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
news:hhieqg$66p$1...@gallifrey.nk.ca...
> In article <jVU_m.59614$PH1.44449@edtnps82>,
> Pat Bay <p...@rocklandzbc.com> wrote:
>>
>>"PM@TimHortons" <P...@TimHortons.ca> wrote in message
>>news:xST_m.2$Bx...@newsfe02.iad...
>>>
>>> "penny" <gor...@sentex.net > wrote in message
>>> news:guvnj5tg6a4l49bsp...@4ax.com...
>>>>
>>>> Harper is ruining our once enviable reputation around the world.
>>>>
>>>> In the following article Murray Dobbin lays out nine ways in which he
>>>> is doing this.
>>>>
>>>> The biggie, of couse, is climate change. But, there are eight other
>>>> ways in which Harper is ruining our reputation. If you cannot guiess
>>>> them check out the following article:
>>>>
>>>> http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2009/12/17/TheUglyCanadian/
>>>
>>>
>>> Harper was never "a Canadian". He has vacillated between being "an
>>> Albertan" and "an American flunky" since his inception as a political
>>> wannabe. He's an embarassment on the world stage, and a dangerous,
>>> arrogant, self-serving politician on the Canadian stage.
>>
>>Nonsense. Everyone who was born here is a Canadian.
>>
>>Michael Igantiff is less Canadian than Harper.
>>
>>
>>
>
No he isn't. The guy at the front desk at the Wickannish Inn near Tofino BC
would be more patrotic to Canada than Iggy.
fred
news:jVU_m.59614$PH1.44449@edtnps82:
>
> "PM@TimHortons" <P...@TimHortons.ca> wrote in message
> news:xST_m.2$Bx...@newsfe02.iad...
>>
>> "penny" <gor...@sentex.net > wrote in message
>> news:guvnj5tg6a4l49bsp...@4ax.com...
>>>
>>> Harper is ruining our once enviable reputation around the world.
>>>
>>> In the following article Murray Dobbin lays out nine ways in which
>>> he is doing this.
>>>
>>> The biggie, of couse, is climate change. But, there are eight
>>> other ways in which Harper is ruining our reputation. If you cannot
>>> guiess them check out the following article:
>>>
>>> http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2009/12/17/TheUglyCanadian/
>>
>>
>> Harper was never "a Canadian". He has vacillated between being "an
>> Albertan" and "an American flunky" since his inception as a political
>> wannabe. He's an embarassment on the world stage, and a dangerous,
>> arrogant, self-serving politician on the Canadian stage.
>
> Nonsense. Everyone who was born here is a Canadian.
>
> Michael Igantiff is less Canadian than Harper.
>
Why? Because he had enough brains to become a professor at one of the
best Universities (maybe even *the* best) in the US?
Canuck57
> In article<jVU_m.59614$PH1.44449@edtnps82>,
> Pat Bay<p...@rocklandzbc.com> wrote:
>>
>> news:xST_m.2$Bx...@newsfe02.iad...
>>>
>>> "penny"<gor...@sentex.net> wrote in message
>>> news:guvnj5tg6a4l49bsp...@4ax.com...
>>>>
>>>> Harper is ruining our once enviable reputation around the world.
>>>>
>>>> In the following article Murray Dobbin lays out nine ways in which he
>>>> is doing this.
>>>>
>>>> The biggie, of couse, is climate change. But, there are eight other
>>>> ways in which Harper is ruining our reputation. If you cannot guiess
>>>> them check out the following article:
>>>>
>>>> http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2009/12/17/TheUglyCanadian/
>>>
>>>
>>> Harper was never "a Canadian". He has vacillated between being "an
>>> Albertan" and "an American flunky" since his inception as a political
>>> wannabe. He's an embarassment on the world stage, and a dangerous,
>>> arrogant, self-serving politician on the Canadian stage.
>>
>> Nonsense. Everyone who was born here is a Canadian.
>>
>> Michael Igantiff is less Canadian than Harper.
>
If you can read, then watch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcJ_9wVfFE0
Oops, meant this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adfY4ywWu6M
Iggy is an opportunistic ego maniac eaglitarian hypocritical bullshiter.
But this one makes me mad as hell, we are already taxed far too much by
Ottawa debt-corruption-spend on crap that does not help Canadians at large:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEcizzMyg_c&feature=related
Idiot should be told to his face, fuck off, I pay too much taxes. Good
idea? Screw you Iggy and get a real job.
AntiSpin
>>Antispin Wrote
>>Dobbin exhibits a complete lack of foreign policy perpsective - according
>>to
>>his column, he beleives that Canadaa should undertake policies that
>>make us ook good to foreign governments and foreign media. The plain
>> >>fact is all foreign policy is local, meaning we undertake policies that
>> >>benefit Canada first and foremost. No prime minister in the history of
>> >>this country has pursued a foreign policy other than to benefit Canada
>> >>and Canadians. International relations is not based on making others
>>feel >>good about you and your country.
>
>
> You seem to have forgotten about the importance of the UN and
> Multilateralism, 192 countries around the world working together to
> try to make this world a better place. We were getting somewhere
> before Bush, and now Harper.
>
> Penny
Classic example of a non-sequitur argument. What does the UN or
multilateralism have to do with Canada not doing what's best for Canada? In
fact, both are examples of Canada maximizing it's policy goals for local
benefit. Canada has not always supported UN initiatives, only those that
match our internal needs (witness Canada walking out on Durbin II). Canada
rarely acts unilaterally, it's preferred MO is either bilateral or
multilateral action.
Ironically, the Afghan mission that you despise is a classic example of both
UN cooperation AND Canadian multilateralism. At the same time, the mission
demonstrates the frequently futility of both types of actions. The UN
mission is a mess and Canada can only count on the UK and US as worthwhile
allies, all the rest of NATO has purposely limited its exposure in
Afghanistan.The body count tells the tale.
The idea of 192 countries working together to make the world a better place
is naive. You assume that international politics is based on altruism. It
isn't and never has been; not even foreign aid is free as it comes with
strings and policy intentions attached. Do you really think Sudan was
working for global good at Copenhagen? Or is it more likely Sudan was
looking for any deal that ensure it received free money? The claim that the
one of the most corrupt government's on earth acting altruistically is
abusrd.
The Doctor
0/10 PAt Boy. Ig makes Canadians proud with his work worldwide
unlike the sheltered and ill-informed Harper.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doc...@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doc...@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.myspace.com/502748630
Merry Christmas 2009 and Happy New Year 2010
macksamillion
"Pat Bay" <p...@rocklandzbc.com> wrote in message news:qLp%m.59847$PH1.42589@edtnps82...
> No, we were living a nightmare when the Trudeau Liberals and the Chretien Liberals ran
> the country.
Your opinion - which has been shown deeply flawed. We didn't have record massive
deficits, rising unemployment, rising foreclosures, and the bloody GST expanded to an HST
under the Trudeau or Chretien years.
The malaise facing all Canadians now is made and bred by Conservatives under Stephen
Harper.
macksamillion
> So who wants an "elite" PM? We had one, Pierre Trudeau. One was a enough, thank you.
You're still sooooo out of touch, aren't you? While you may have your own anti-Liberal
opinions, state them them as such. But you're only showing yourself up a fool for being
so out of step with the majority of Canadians. Pierre Trudeau has always scored highest
in popularity among ANY prime ministers of Canada.
__________________________
Posted on Sunday, May 24, 2009
Angus Reid results � Pierre Trudeau is still regarded as the best head of government
Canada has had since 1968, while roughly one-in-five Canadians think either Stephen Harper
or Brian Mulroney have been the worst prime ministers in that span, a new Angus Reid
Strategies / Toronto Star poll has found.
KEY FINDINGS
a.. Best PM since 1968: Trudeau 39%, Harper 11%, Chr�tien 9%, Mulroney 8%
b.. Worst PM since 1968: Harper 22%, Mulroney 19%, Chr�tien 12%, Trudeau 10%, Campbell
9%
In the online survey of a representative national sample of 1,004 Canadian adults, 39% of
respondents believe Trudeau has been the best prime minister of the past four decades,
followed by Harper with 11%, JeanChr�tien with nine%, and Brian Mulroney with 8%.
More than two-in-five respondents in British Columbia, Ontario and Atlantic Canada choose
Trudeau as the best prime minister, while one-in-five Albertans (21%) pick Harper.
Mulroney was selected by 15% of Quebecers. Women (42%), respondents over the age of 55
(45%) and university graduates (46%) all express a preference for Trudeau.
Large majorities of Liberal Party (62%) and New Democratic Party (NDP) supporters (56%)
also think Trudeau has been the best head of government of the past four decades. A third
of Conservative Party voters (34%) choose Harper, and a quarter of Bloc Qu�b�cois
sympathizers (25%) pick Mulroney.
While Trudeau has maintained the upper hand in this question since June 2007, support for
Mulroney has fallen by four percentage points over the past two years.
When asked who has been the worst prime minister of Canada since 1968, 22% of respondents
choose Harper, followed by Mulroney with 19%, Chr�tien with 12%, Trudeau with 10%, and Kim
Campbell with nine%. Three-in-ten respondents aged 18 to 34 (29%) believe Harper has been
the worst head of government.
Quebec is the main source of discontent with the current dweller of 24 Sussex Drive, with
29% of respondents claiming that Harper has beenthe worst prime minister of the past four
decades. In Ontario, Alberta and British Columbia, at least one-in-four respondents select
Mulroney.
At least three-in-ten Liberals (38%), Bloc supporters (38%) and NDP voters (31%) select
Harper as the worst prime minister, while respondents who voted for the Tories in last
year�s federal election are torn between Trudeau (23%) and Chr�tien (20%).
Harper, who ranked second when this question was last asked in June 2008, is now ahead of
Mulroney by a slim three-point margin. The perception of Mulroney as the worst prime
minister has fallen by six points, with Harper and Campbell seeing significant gains.
From May 19 to May 20, 2009, Angus Reid Strategies conducted an online survey among 1,004
randomly selected Canadian adults who are Angus Reid Forum panelists. The margin of
error�which measures sampling variability�is +/- 3.1%, 19 times out of 20. The results
have been statistically weighted according to the most current education, age, gender and
region Census data to ensure a sample representative of the entire adult population of
Canada. Discrepancies in or between totals are due to rounding.
macksamillion
>>>to rot by Harper in the Guantanamo Gulag, while all other Western
>>>nations have repatriated their nationals long ago.
> "penny" <gor...@sentex.net > wrote in message
> news:l1upj5hof3klslkf1...@4ax.com...
>> Thanks for bringing it up. A real shame on Canada !
"Pat Bay" <p...@rocklandzbc.com> wrote in message news:4%8%m.59742$PH1.17275@edtnps82...
> The kid shouldn't have potted off U.S. Army soliders. The little punk should
> go through the U.S. legal system first. Then we'll see about going to
> his parents and getting them to pay for bringing him back home. We'll make sure he
> clears customs like everyone else does.
>
> I'm sure you would want to be the bleeding heart to the families of the soldiers he
> potted off.
Americans were the invaders. Omar Khadr was fighting invaders into his country. It was a
war.
Where do you come off saying he didn't have the right to "pot off U.S. army soldiers"? I
can't think of anyone who has more right to do that than someone defending his homeland
from invader troops.
Pat Bay
"macksamillion" <macksa...@work.now> wrote in message
news:t0v%m.95$Ef7...@newsfe07.iad...
>> "penny" <gor...@sentex.net > wrote in message
>> news:4jqqj5t3tep2madkp...@4ax.com...
>>> You're living in a dream world.
>
> "Pat Bay" <p...@rocklandzbc.com> wrote in message
> news:qLp%m.59847$PH1.42589@edtnps82...
>> No, we were living a nightmare when the Trudeau Liberals and the Chretien
>> Liberals ran the country.
>
> Your opinion - which has been shown deeply flawed. We didn't have record
> massive deficits, rising unemployment, rising foreclosures, and the bloody
> GST expanded to an HST under the Trudeau or Chretien years.
Er yes we did have those massive deficits under the Trudeau Liberals, and
the huge accumlation of debt.
Intrerestingly the Liberals in 1993 said if elected they would eliminate the
GST, and never did
Plus they introduced the HST to Atlantic Canada.
>
> The malaise facing all Canadians now is made and bred by Conservatives
> under Stephen Harper.
Not exactly Sunshine. Do your homework.
Pat Bay
"macksamillion" <macksa...@work.now> wrote in message
> "Pat Bay" <p...@rocklandzbc.com> wrote in message
> news:Zt7%m.59715$PH1.44219@edtnps82...
>> So who wants an "elite" PM? We had one, Pierre Trudeau. One was a enough,
>> thank you.
>
> You're still sooooo out of touch, aren't you? While you may have your own
> anti-Liberal opinions, state them them as such.
Don't have to justify anything to you Sunshine.
But you're only showing yourself up a fool for being
> so out of step with the majority of Canadians. Pierre Trudeau has always
> scored highest in popularity among ANY prime ministers of Canada.
Sure amongst many in Eastern Canada.
But not out here in Western Canada. Not by a long shot, kiddo.
if Trudeau was really that popular out here, we would have had more Liberal
MPs, but didn't. What does that tell you?
Pat Bay
Well too bad Iggy couldn't have done more inside Canada than he did outside
Canada.
macksamillion
[ snip - - - -]
>
> Social and public spending is good and necessary to sustain a
> democratic capitalist society.
>
> Government control of coommodities necessary for our survival is good.
> -- oil is an example.
>
> Oil must be nationalized !
>
> Penny
ALL natural resources in any country need to be nationalized. Otherwise, you get what's
happening in Canada right now under a right wing federal government: natural resources
are being given over to private enterprises - and they're usually FOREIGN private
enterprises - to lease, administer, and export as THEY see fit. That's no different than
just selling our natural resources outright and saying: 'Here, take everything that has
major value and use it for your own profit - damn Canadian needs or costs'.
A whole lot of countries woke up suddenly to that fact when the U.S. and other 'capitalist
is great'
countries took up shop in poorer countries and exploited them to death.
The Doctor
Chretien was the man!
The Doctor
Iggy is going to the ordinary person
since becming leader. I hear Harper is scare that he would get
beat up in a Town Hall.
Charlie Yankee
> On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 10:13:37 -0800 (PST),CharlieYankee
>
> <charlieyan...@live.com> wrote:
> >On Dec 30, 8:35 pm, penny <gora...@sentex.net > wrote:
> >> Harper is ruining our once enviable reputation around the world.
>
> >testicularly-challenged do-gooder that confuses being liked with being
> >respected. It's nice to have a PM who doesn't give a crap what Bono
> >thinks (or Murray Dobbin, for that matter).
>
> But Harper does give a crap what George Bush and his clones think and
> what climate nay-sayers and his right wing evangelical church think.
> Murray seems angelic in comparison. .
George Bush is gone. It's time you guys let him go.
> >Dobbin is one of the worst offenders in terms of the "we own and
> >define Canadian values" attitude on the part of the left in this
> >country. The only "ugly Canadian" I can see is a shrill, arrogant
> >left-coaster whose entire worldview boils down to "corporations bad,
> >US bad, military bad, social spending good, government control good".
>
> Not such a bad worldview .
But I hope you'll agree that it's not the only legitimate Canadian
one.
> Corportism rules todays global economy, and while there are many good
> corporations out there, too many are flouting human rights, workers'
> rights and environmental protection. They are also increasing the
> dichotomy of wealth between rich and not-so rich in our society and
> around the world. .
How equal should our income/wealth be? What would be an ideal
distibution of wealth in Pennyland?
> The US was involved in many divisive and destructive actions under
> Bush in the domestic and international arenas, and he has yet to be
> brought to account for his crimes against humanity Thankfully the US
> is now under the leadership of a good president who is already making
> a difference in spite of beiing attacked every step of the way by the
> Bush republicans.
I was happy Obama was elected, largely because I felt that taking
George Bush and the Republicans away from the Canadian left would
leave them without an all-purpose bogeyman. But Obama's no socialist.
> The Bush military was bad. Our military under Harper is growing out
> of sight for such a small country. The money being spent on it should
> be going to sustain our economy and putting people to work.
One of the things I'm most happy about is the Harper government
returning funding and dignity to our military after years of Liberal
neglect and contempt. I'm also glad that the Pearson-era mythology of
Canadians soldiers as social workers in fatigues have finally been
tossed on the trashheap.
> Social and public spending is good and necessary to sustain a
> democratic capitalist society.
>
> Government control of coommodities necessary for our survival is good.
> -- oil is an example.
>
> Oil must be nationalized !
Whatever you say, tovarishch.
Pat Bay
> In article <cqv%m.58194$Db2.12736@edtnps83>,
> Pat Bay <p...@rocklandzbc.com> wrote:
>>
>>"macksamillion" <macksa...@work.now> wrote in message
>>news:xgv%m.593$ap2...@newsfe18.iad...
>>> "Pat Bay" <p...@rocklandzbc.com> wrote in message
>>> news:Zt7%m.59715$PH1.44219@edtnps82...
>>>> So who wants an "elite" PM? We had one, Pierre Trudeau. One was a
>>>> enough,
>>>> thank you.
>>>
>>> You're still sooooo out of touch, aren't you? While you may have your
>>> own
>>> anti-Liberal opinions, state them them as such.
>>
>>Don't have to justify anything to you Sunshine.
>>
>>
>> But you're only showing yourself up a fool for being
>>> so out of step with the majority of Canadians. Pierre Trudeau has
>>> always
>>> scored highest in popularity among ANY prime ministers of Canada.
>>
>>Sure amongst many in Eastern Canada.
>>
>>But not out here in Western Canada. Not by a long shot, kiddo.
>>
>>if Trudeau was really that popular out here, we would have had more
>>Liberal
>>MPs, but didn't. What does that tell you?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> Chretien was the man!
yeah right. He was certainly better than Trudeau, but not as good as Paul
Martin, if you are a real Liberal.
Pat Bay
Iggy would bore people to death in a Town Hall.
and thoe Town Halls are a farce anyway.
Have Iggy as the person, you'd get alot of Conservatives in there beating
him up.
Have Harper as the person, you'd get alot of Liberals and Dippers in there
beating him up.
Pat Bay
"macksamillion" <macksa...@work.now> wrote in message
>>>>Dobbin forgot to mention Omar Khadr, a Canadian born kid who is left
>>>>to rot by Harper in the Guantanamo Gulag, while all other Western
>>>>nations have repatriated their nationals long ago.
>
>
>> "penny" <gor...@sentex.net > wrote in message
>> news:l1upj5hof3klslkf1...@4ax.com...
>>> Thanks for bringing it up. A real shame on Canada !
>
> "Pat Bay" <p...@rocklandzbc.com> wrote in message
> news:4%8%m.59742$PH1.17275@edtnps82...
> > The kid shouldn't have potted off U.S. Army soliders. The little punk
> > should
>> go through the U.S. legal system first. Then we'll see about going to
>> his parents and getting them to pay for bringing him back home. We'll
>> make sure he clears customs like everyone else does.
>>
>> I'm sure you would want to be the bleeding heart to the families of the
>> soldiers he potted off.
>
> Americans were the invaders. Omar Khadr was fighting invaders into his
> country. It was a war.
Um no. Khadr is supposedly Canadian (according to the story). The U.S. did
not invade Canada (well they tried in 1812, but lost).
His parents are Afghani, but he has Canadian citizenship.
> Where do you come off saying he didn't have the right to "pot off U.S.
> army soldiers"? I can't think of anyone who has more right to do that
> than someone defending his homeland from invader troops.
Um, Sunshine.. The U.S. was asked to come into Afghanistan along with other
countries to oust the Taliban, something they haven't been able to
100%.
According to you, this Khadr kid was never Canadian. So why are you and
others wanting him back here bypassing the U.S. judiciary??
Pat Bay
"macksamillion" <macksa...@work.now> wrote in message
>
> "penny" <gor...@sentex.net > wrote in message
> news:63upj5t7aapkt870l...@4ax.com...
> [ snip - - - -]
>>
>> Social and public spending is good and necessary to sustain a
>> democratic capitalist society.
>>
>> Government control of coommodities necessary for our survival is good.
>> -- oil is an example.
>>
>> Oil must be nationalized !
>>
>> Penny
>
> ALL natural resources in any country need to be nationalized.
Sure. sounds like socialism of the Soviet kind.
Otherwise, you get what's
> happening in Canada right now under a right wing federal government:
> natural resources are being given over to private enterprises - and
> they're usually FOREIGN private enterprises - to lease, administer, and
> export as THEY see fit.
Which creates jobs at the mines forests and oil patch.
That's no different than
> just selling our natural resources outright and saying: 'Here, take
> everything that has major value and use it for your own profit - damn
> Canadian needs or costs'.
They pay taxes, so do the employees. Plus there are royalties paid to the
provincial governmment.
> A whole lot of countries woke up suddenly to that fact when the U.S. and
> other 'capitalist is great'
> countries took up shop in poorer countries and exploited them to death.
Think about that when you use your computer or wear cheap clothes and Nike
shoes.
Pete
> yeah right. He was certainly better than Trudeau, but not as good as Paul
> Martin, if you are a real Liberal.
>
Trudeau was a different kettle of fish.
He's probably the most brilliant leader of a major country that existed in his
day.
And don't forget, he was dealing with Nixon, Harold Wilson, Brezhnev and
Chairman Mao. :)
Not the smartest cookies on the tray.
Pete
And don't forget that stupid Frenchman. General De Gaulle.
The world was full of assholes back then.
Pete
>
> Iggy would bore people to death in a Town Hall.
>
> and thoe Town Halls are a farce anyway.
>
> Have Iggy as the person, you'd get alot of Conservatives in there beating
> him up.
>
>
Iggy is the Anglo version of a boring Stevie Dion!
Those eyebrows! And how he fails to make eye contact with people, make Harper
shaking the hand of his kid that day, look like a fucking love hug.
How can you possibly be a politician when you can't look people in the eye?
That's Iggy!
Pete
Khadr lived on Lawerance Avenue, near Brimley Road in Scarborough. And went
to my high school. That's not just Ohmar, but his dad and family.
I have no issue with Muslims, however that's my old neighbourhood and I have a
friend who is raising twin girls in it, the place is better than it was when
the Jamacians were taking weapons into the school. I graduated from Thomson
in 1976.
Ohmar's Mother still lives in the apartments next to my old school, and though
they have publicly said that they detest Canada, they appreciate living here.
Let it be known that what they say does not represent the notions of most
Muslims living here. I coach hockey and have more than a few Muslim kids on
my team, and their parents are just as Canadian as anyone I know.
Pete
> "macksamillion" <macksa...@work.now> wrote in message
> news:Stv%m.595$ap2...@newsfe18.iad...
> >
> > "penny" <gor...@sentex.net > wrote in message
> > news:63upj5t7aapkt870l...@4ax.com...
> > [ snip - - - -]
> >>
> >> Social and public spending is good and necessary to sustain a
> >> democratic capitalist society.
> >>
> >> Government control of coommodities necessary for our survival is good.
> >> -- oil is an example.
> >>
> >> Oil must be nationalized !
> >>
> >> Penny
> >
> > ALL natural resources in any country need to be nationalized.
>
> Sure. sounds like socialism of the Soviet kind.
>
Yeah, we tried that already.
The biggest laugh of the decade was Lougheed. "Let the Eastern Bastards
Frezee in the Dark".
(most of the East's oil comes from the middle east)
However, if you want to see "nationalization" of oil, look at the success of
Norway.
Just look it up. No bother explaining.
But a true economy should be better than that. Ontario loses big time when
the dollar rises, Alberta has problems.
Ontario makes things and (like Canada as a whole) exports over 80% of what it
produces. What Alberta needs is a "Chemical Valley" like Sarnia, plants
where they make things based on the petrochemical industry. The old days of
the steeleindustry in Hamilton, plants that make cars appear to be secondary
to just pumping stuff out of the ground and selling it to the world.
Regrettibly, manufacturing is not what we do now. Our only success is in
producing natural resources and exporting them. Like a third world country.
The last television set made in North America was in 1986, by Electrohome of
Kitchener - Waterloo Ontario.
Even BlackBerry smart phones are made in China.
The Doctor
1993 Chretien sweeps Atlantic Canada , Ontario , Manitoba!
The Doctor
Whine and cries Convictative Apologists.
The Doctor
Iggy has lloked me in the eye on several occasions when I ask him pointed
questions.
Pat Bay
"E. Barry Bruyea" <terml...@democracy.com> wrote in message
news:hltuj5t314t99rh85...@4ax.com...
Didn't mean much out here in Western Canada.
Pat Bay
"Pete" <pete...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.25a8b2b95...@News.Individual.NET...
Electrohome. we had one of those. a 24" colour console (don't see those
anymore, the ones with the real wooden cabinet that was actually a piece
of furniture that actually was cleaned and polished each week.
Used to watch Hockey Night In Canada on Saturday nights with it.
as in watch the Cancuks lose against the California Golden Seals.
jimjames5417
> In article <WNq%m.59855$PH1.32207@edtnps82>,
>
>
>
> Pat Bay <p...@rocklandzbc.com> wrote:
>
> >"The Doctor" <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
> >> In article <jVU_m.59614$PH1.44449@edtnps82>,
> >> Pat Bay <p...@rocklandzbc.com> wrote:
>
> >>>"PM@TimHortons" <P...@TimHortons.ca> wrote in message
> >>>news:xST_m.2$Bx...@newsfe02.iad...
>
> >>>>news:guvnj5tg6a4l49bsp...@4ax.com...
>
> >>>>> Harper is ruining our once enviable reputation around the world.
>
> >>>>> In the following article Murray Dobbin lays out nine ways in which he
> >>>>> is doing this.
>
> >>>>> The biggie, of couse, is climate change. But, there are eight other
> >>>>> ways in which Harper is ruining our reputation. If you cannot guiess
> >>>>> them check out the following article:
>
> >>>>>http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2009/12/17/TheUglyCanadian/
>
> >>>> Harper was never "a Canadian". He has vacillated between being "an
> >>>> Albertan" and "an American flunky" since his inception as a political
> >>>> wannabe. He's an embarassment on the world stage, and a dangerous,
> >>>> arrogant, self-serving politician on the Canadian stage.
>
> >>>Nonsense. Everyone who was born here is a Canadian.
>
> >>>Michael Igantiff is less Canadian than Harper.
>
> >> Ignatieff is MORE of a Patriot to Canada that Harper is!
>
> >No he isn't. The guy at the front desk at the Wickannish Inn near Tofino BC
> >would be more patrotic to Canada than Iggy.
>
> 0/10 PAt Boy. Ig makes Canadians proud with his work worldwide
> unlike the sheltered and ill-informed Harper.
> Merry Christmas 2009 and Happy New Year 2010
Poor Old Doctor!! Never bothering to look at what the rest of Canada
outside of Toronto thinks of the LIEberal crooks! Has he looked at the
polls lately?? One would expect that living in Albertya would have
exposed him to at least some of the real world!! This is the kind of
stupidity one would expect from Fraud Old Boob Peffers!!
jimjames5417
> > "penny" <gora...@sentex.net > wrote in message
> >> You're living in a dream world.
> > No, we were living a nightmare when the Trudeau Liberals and the Chretien Liberals ran
> > the country.
>
> Your opinion - which has been shown deeply flawed. We didn't have record massive
> deficits, rising unemployment, rising foreclosures, and the bloody GST expanded to an HST
> under the Trudeau or Chretien years.
>
> Harper.
The massive deficits you refer too are a product of the LIEberal/NDP/
Bloc coalition!!
jimjames5417
> >>>Dobbin forgot to mention Omar Khadr, a Canadian born kid who is left
> >>>to rot by Harper in the Guantanamo Gulag, while all other Western
> >>>nations have repatriated their nationals long ago.
> >news:l1upj5hof3klslkf1...@4ax.com...
> >> Thanks for bringing it up. A real shame on Canada !
>
> > The kid shouldn't have potted off U.S. Army soliders. The little punk should
>
> > go through the U.S. legal system first. Then we'll see about going to
> > his parents and getting them to pay for bringing him back home. We'll make sure he
> > clears customs like everyone else does.
>
> > I'm sure you would want to be the bleeding heart to the families of the soldiers he
> > potted off.
>
> Americans were the invaders. Omar Khadr was fighting invaders into his country. It was a
> war.
> Where do you come off saying he didn't have the right to "pot off U.S. army soldiers"? I
> can't think of anyone who has more right to do that than someone defending his homeland
> from invader troops.
I thought you said he was a Canadian, then how did Afghan9istan become
his country??
jimjames5417
> In article <XMz%m.58222$Db2.41540@edtnps83>,
>
>
>
> Pat Bay <p...@rocklandzbc.com> wrote:
>
> >"The Doctor" <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
> >news:hhm772$hm1$1...@gallifrey.nk.ca...
> >> In article <cqv%m.58194$Db2.12736@edtnps83>,
> >> Pat Bay <p...@rocklandzbc.com> wrote:
>
> Merry Christmas 2009 and Happy New Year 2010
Things have certainly changed!!! Now LIEberal crooks are almost afraid
to show their true faces!!
The Doctor
jimjames5417 <james...@usa.net> wrote:
>On Jan 1, 2:26=A0pm, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
>> In article <WNq%m.59855$PH1.32207@edtnps82>,
>>
>>
>>
>> Pat Bay <p...@rocklandzbc.com> wrote:
>>
>> >"The Doctor" <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
>> >news:hhieqg$66p$1...@gallifrey.nk.ca...
>> >> In article <jVU_m.59614$PH1.44449@edtnps82>,
>> >> Pat Bay <p...@rocklandzbc.com> wrote:
>>
>> >>>"PM@TimHortons" <P...@TimHortons.ca> wrote in message
>> >>>news:xST_m.2$Bx...@newsfe02.iad...
>>
>> >>>> "penny" <gora...@sentex.net > wrote in message
>> >>>>news:guvnj5tg6a4l49bsp...@4ax.com...
>>
>> >>>>> Harper is ruining our once enviable reputation around the world.
>>
>he
>> >>>>> is doing this.
>>
>> >>>>> The biggie, of couse, is climate change. =A0But, there are eight =
>=A0other
>> >>>>> ways in which Harper is ruining our reputation. =A0If you cannot gu=
>iess
>> >>>>> them check out the following article:
>>
>> >>>>>http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2009/12/17/TheUglyCanadian/
>>
>n
>> >>>> Albertan" and "an American flunky" since his inception as a politica=
>l
>> >>>> wannabe. =A0He's an embarassment on the world stage, and a dangerous=
>,
>> >>>> arrogant, self-serving politician on the Canadian stage.
>>
>> >>>Nonsense. Everyone who was born here is a Canadian.
>>
>> >>>Michael Igantiff is less Canadian than Harper.
>>
>> >> Ignatieff is MORE of a Patriot to Canada that Harper is!
>>
>ino BC
>> >would be more patrotic to Canada than Iggy.
>>
>> 0/10 PAt Boy. Ig makes Canadians proud with his work worldwide
>> unlike the sheltered and ill-informed Harper.
>> --
>2k.ab.ca
>> God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist=
> rising!http://twitter.com/rootnl2khttp://www.myspace.com/502748630
>> Merry Christmas 2009 and Happy New Year 2010
>
>Poor Old Doctor!! Never bothering to look at what the rest of Canada
>outside of Toronto thinks of the LIEberal crooks! Has he looked at the
>polls lately?? One would expect that living in Albertya would have
>exposed him to at least some of the real world!! This is the kind of
>stupidity one would expect from Fraud Old Boob Peffers!!
LEt me see Harper is like a disaster waiting to happen.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doc...@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doc...@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.myspace.com/502748630
The Doctor
jimjames5417 <james...@usa.net> wrote:
>On Jan 2, 6:41=A0am, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
>> In article <XMz%m.58222$Db2.41540@edtnps83>,
>>
>>
>>
>> Pat Bay <p...@rocklandzbc.com> wrote:
>>
>> >"The Doctor" <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
>> >news:hhm772$hm1$1...@gallifrey.nk.ca...
>> >> In article <cqv%m.58194$Db2.12736@edtnps83>,
>> >> Pat Bay <p...@rocklandzbc.com> wrote:
>>
>> >>>"macksamillion" <macksamill...@work.now> wrote in message
>> >>>news:xgv%m.593$ap2...@newsfe18.iad...
>> >>>> "Pat Bay" <p...@rocklandzbc.com> wrote in message
>> >>>>news:Zt7%m.59715$PH1.44219@edtnps82...
>> >>>>> So who wants an "elite" PM? We had one, Pierre Trudeau. One was a
>> >>>>> enough,
>> >>>>> thank you.
>>
>your
>> >>>> own
>> >>>> anti-Liberal opinions, state them them as such.
>>
>> >>>Don't have to justify anything to you Sunshine.
>>
>> >>> But you're only showing yourself up a fool for being
>> >>>> always
>> >>>> scored highest in popularity among ANY prime ministers of Canada.
>>
>> >>>Sure amongst many in Eastern Canada.
>>
>> >>>But not out here in Western Canada. Not by a long shot, kiddo.
>>
>> >>>if Trudeau was really that popular out here, we would have had more
>> >>>Liberal
>> >>>MPs, but didn't. What does that tell you?
>>
>> >> Chretien was the man!
>>
>l
>> >Martin, if you are a real Liberal.
>>
>> 1993 Chretien sweeps Atlantic Canada , Ontario , Manitoba!
>> --
> rising!http://twitter.com/rootnl2khttp://www.myspace.com/502748630
>> Merry Christmas 2009 and Happy New Year 2010
>
>Things have certainly changed!!! Now LIEberal crooks are almost afraid
>to show their true faces!!
You really are deranged.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doc...@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doc...@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Never Satan President Republic! Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://twitter.com/rootnl2k http://www.myspace.com/502748630
Pat Bay
>> Um no. Khadr is supposedly Canadian (according to the story). The U.S.
>> did
>> not invade Canada (well they tried in 1812, but lost).
>> His parents are Afghani, but he has Canadian citizenship.
>>
>> > Where do you come off saying he didn't have the right to "pot off U.S.
>> > army soldiers"? I can't think of anyone who has more right to do that
>> > than someone defending his homeland from invader troops.
>>
>> Um, Sunshine.. The U.S. was asked to come into Afghanistan along with
>> other
>> countries to oust the Taliban, something they haven't been able to
>> 100%.
>>
>> According to you, this Khadr kid was never Canadian. So why are you and
>> others wanting him back here bypassing the U.S. judiciary??
>
> Khadr lived on Lawerance Avenue, near Brimley Road in Scarborough. And
> went
> to my high school. That's not just Ohmar, but his dad and family.
Sure. You just said "defending his homeland". Kinda hard to do at a high
school in Scarborough.
>
> I have no issue with Muslims, however that's my old neighbourhood and I
> have a
> friend who is raising twin girls in it, the place is better than it was
> when
> the Jamacians were taking weapons into the school. I graduated from
> Thomson
> in 1976.
Well good for you. Hopefully you sat at the front end of the class, not the
back.
>
> Ohmar's Mother still lives in the apartments next to my old school, and
> though
> they have publicly said that they detest Canada, they appreciate living
> here.
That's a riot. They detest Canada, but they "appreciate living here". Woner
why? Generous welfare programmes perhaps?
> Let it be known that what they say does not represent the notions of most
> Muslims living here. I coach hockey and have more than a few Muslim
> kids on
> my team, and their parents are just as Canadian as anyone I know.
Well good for you. Once they players are on the ice, the gloves go on, the
religion comes off.
penny
<charli...@live.com> wrote:
>On Dec 31 2009, 2:30�pm, penny <gora...@sentex.net > wrote:
>> On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 10:13:37 -0800 (PST),CharlieYankee
>>
>> <charlieyan...@live.com> wrote:
>> >On Dec 30, 8:35�pm, penny <gora...@sentex.net > wrote:
>> >> �Harper is ruining our once enviable reputation around the world.
>>
>> >Harper is definitely ruining the reputation of Canada as a naive,
>> >testicularly-challenged do-gooder that confuses being liked with being
>> >respected. �It's nice to have a PM who doesn't give a crap what Bono
>> >thinks (or Murray Dobbin, for that matter).
>>
>> But Harper �does give a crap what George Bush and his clones think and
>> what climate nay-sayers and �his right wing evangelical church think.
>> Murray seems angelic in comparison. . �
>
>George Bush is gone. It's time you guys let him go.
George Bush has not gone. His divisive and destructive policies are
still alive and well in the Republicans in Congress who are still
carrying on the obscene anti--humanity policies of Bush.
Bush will not be "gone" until he has been made accountable for his
crimes against humanity. The US cannot move forward until this has
been done.
!
>
>> >Dobbin is one of the worst offenders in terms of the "we own and
>> >define Canadian values" attitude on the part of the left in this
>> >country. �The only "ugly Canadian" I can see is a shrill, arrogant
>> >left-coaster whose entire worldview boils down to "corporations bad,
>> >US bad, military bad, social spending good, government control good".
>>
>> Not such a bad worldview .
>
>But I hope you'll agree that it's not the only legitimate Canadian
>one.
>
>> Corportism rules todays global economy, and while there are many good
>> corporations out there, �too many are flouting human rights, workers'
>> rights and environmental protection. �They are also increasing the
>> dichotomy of wealth between rich and not-so rich in our society and
>> around the world. .
>
>How equal should our income/wealth be? What would be an ideal
>distibution of wealth in Pennyland?
It should not be so unequal that. -
" The average compensation for the top CEOs has outpaced inflation
by 70 per cent between 1998 and 2008, . . . . During the same period,
Canadian earning the average income lost six per cent to inflation."
It should not be so unequal that:
" Canadians will work full-time throughout the year to earn the
national average of $42,305,"
"The top 100 CEOs pocket that amount by 1:01 p.m. on Jan. 4 the first
working day of the year."
http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2010/01/04/executive-compensation-average-salary-ceo.html
>
>> The US was involved in many divisive and destructive actions under
>> Bush in the domestic and international arenas, �and he has yet to be
>> brought to account for his crimes against humanity � Thankfully the US
>> is now under the leadership of a good president who is already making
>> a difference in spite of beiing attacked every step of the way by the
>> Bush republicans.
>
>I was happy Obama was elected, largely because I felt that taking
>George Bush and the Republicans away from the Canadian left would
>leave them without an all-purpose bogeyman. But Obama's no socialist.
Obama would have made great strides in social and public service
programs if he did not have to fight so hard against the Republicans
to get important bills relating to the common good through Congress .
>
>> The Bush military was bad. �Our military under Harper is growing out
>> of sight for such a small country. �The money being spent on it should
>> be going to sustain our economy and putting people to work.
>
>One of the things I'm most happy about is the Harper government
>returning funding and dignity to our military after years of Liberal
>neglect and contempt. I'm also glad that the Pearson-era mythology of
>Canadians soldiers as social workers in fatigues have finally been
>tossed on the trashheap.
Our military and our peacekeeping efforts were held in high esteem
throughout the world.
Not so Harper who is in the process of building up Pentagon North. We
spend more on our military than most of the other countries of NATO.
And for what !!!
Harper's Military budget over the next twenty years will be over
half a trillion dollars . . It's called "Canada's First Defence
Strategy. Who in hell is Harper defending us against? Tell me that.
Meanwhile, while our military defends us against whoever, our social
and public programs will have descended into nothing and poverty will
be the norm.
We are a small country of only 33 million and our taxes cannot support
a military of the size Harper plans to make it.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=10484
>> Social and public spending is good and necessary to sustain a
>> democratic capitalist society.
>>
>> Government control of commodities necessary for our survival is good.
>> -- oil is an example.
>>
>> Oil must be nationalized !
>
>Whatever you say, tovarishch.
I should think so ,Herr von Ribbentrop!!!
Penny
Roy
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
==
The amount of money proposed for defense in the next 20 years ($490
billion), if totally ridiculous. Harper is an idiot.
==
Last Post
> Harper is ruining our once enviable reputation around the world.
• That is a big laugh Harper is doing all the right
this and is honest, unlike your fellow fascists
Cretin, Martin, and Trudeau
>
> In the following article Murray Dobbin lays out nine ways in which he
> is doing this.
>
> The biggie, of couse, is climate change. But, there are eight other
> ways in which Harper is ruining our reputation. If you cannot guiess
> them check out the following article:
>
• The US Government is now in the stong arm
fascist bullies, not the least of which is Barak
Hussein Mohammad Obama.
• I am proud of our delegation in Copenhagen.
They behaved well in rejecting all the pressure
to give credence to the global warming scam.
Canada is holding a bright light for freedom.
BTW: I have both US and Canada citizenship.
I am distressed that both the mayor of Toronto
and the premier of Ontario are radical fascists.
They are detroying both the city and the
province
–– ––
Political correctness is destroying Europe.
America will be the next down the PC tube
greased by academic idiots like Scott Erb,
Noam Chumpsky, and Ward Churchill, and
Slick Willy & Hilly, Algore & Pelosi, and
now Barak Hussein Muhammad Obama, too.
Last Post
>
> Harper was never "a Canadian". He has vacillated between being "an Albertan" and "an
> American flunky" since his inception as a political wannabe. He's an embarassment on the
> world stage, and a dangerous, arrogant, self-serving politician on the Canadian stage.
• Another fascist fool speaks out.
If you had a brain you would probably eat it.
Last Post
> On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 03:30:23 GMT, "Pat Bay" <p...@rocklandzbc.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >"PM@TimHortons" <P...@TimHortons.ca> wrote in message
> >news:xST_m.2$Bx...@newsfe02.iad...
>
> >> "penny" <gora...@sentex.net > wrote in message
> >>news:guvnj5tg6a4l49bsp...@4ax.com...
>
>
> >>> is doing this.
>
> >>> The biggie, of couse, is climate change. But, there are eight other
> >>> ways in which Harper is ruining our reputation. If you cannot guiess
> >>> them check out the following article:
>
>
> >> Harper was never "a Canadian". He has vacillated between being "an
> >> Albertan" and "an American flunky" since his inception as a political
> >> wannabe. He's an embarassment on the world stage, and a dangerous,
> >> arrogant, self-serving politician on the Canadian stage.
>
>
> >Michael Igantiff is less Canadian than Harper.
>
> John A MacDonald.
>
> According to the author of the following article:
>
> " Ignatieff as potential PM has a more impressive pure laine Canadian
> elite lineage than any previous PM. "
• ROTFLMAO
Iggy's record in his term as leader of the
opposition was clownish at best.He should
go back to boston where the Mayor and the
Governor have the same politics.
Last Post
> Liberals ran the country.
• Don't forget about Paul Martin
Last Post
> Er yes we did have those massive deficits under the Trudeau Liberals, and
> the huge accumlation of debt.
>
> Intrerestingly the Liberals in 1993 said if elected they would eliminate the
> GST, and never did
• That was a typical Lib ploy
The GST was not a new tax. Previously it was
called Excise Tax and it was variously 8% or
8.5% levied at the wholesale level. There was
no tax on services or food.
Charlie Yankee
> >How equal should our income/wealth be? What would be an ideal
> >distibution of wealth in Pennyland?
>
> It should not be so unequal that. -
>
> " The average compensation for the top CEOs has outpaced inflation
> by 70 per cent between 1998 and 2008, . . . . During the same period,
> Canadian earning the average income lost six per cent to inflation."
So you feel it is the place of government to tell shareholders of a
private sector company how much they should and shouldn't pay their
executives? I could see that for companies that received bailouts,
but for a company that hasn't received a dime in public money?
> It should not be so unequal that:
Oh, and I didn't ask you what kind of income distribution you *didn't*
want, although if you listed all the distibution scenarios you didn't
approve of, I could derive an answer. It might be easier if you
simply told me what you though minimum and maximum incomes should be
(or at least the ratio between the two) and how such valuations would
be made.
> >One of the things I'm most happy about is the Harper government
> >returning funding and dignity to our military after years of Liberal
> >neglect and contempt. I'm also glad that the Pearson-era mythology of
> >Canadians soldiers as social workers in fatigues have finally been
> >tossed on the trashheap.
>
> Our military and our peacekeeping efforts were held in high esteem
> throughout the world.
So the mythology goes. But if you want social workers handing out
blankets and Kielburgering, send the bloody social workers (or the
Kielburgers). Don't send well-trained but underfunded soldiers with
weapons that are just for show and tell them they can't fight back if
the local scumbags fire at them. Pearson, Trudeau and Hellyer made a
mockery of our military.
> Not so Harper who is in the process of building up Pentagon North. We
> spend more on our military than most of the other countries of NATO.
> And for what !!!
>
> Harper's Military budget over the next twenty years will be over
> half a trillion dollars . . It's called "Canada's First Defence
> Strategy. Who in hell is Harper defending us against? Tell me that.
Real sovereignty requires more than just thumbing your noses at the
Americans at every opportunity. Defense and foreign affairs are what
the federal level of government is *supposed* to be concerned with,
rather that trying to micromanage areas of provincial responsibility
like social policy.
Reading posts like yours only makes me enjoy the fact that Harper and
the Conservatives are in power that much more. For a long time, I had
little to like in our federal parties and leaders. Now it's *your*
turn to feel frustrated and shut out.
penny
<last...@primus.ca> wrote:
>On Dec 31 2009, 12:49�am, penny <gora...@sentex.net > wrote:
>> Ignatieff's roots go far back into Canadian history -- as far back as
>> John A MacDonald.
>>
>> According to the author of the following article:
>>
>> " �Ignatieff as potential PM has a more impressive pure laine Canadian
>> elite lineage than any previous PM. "
>>Penny
>
>� ROTFLMAO
> Iggy's record in his term as leader of the
> opposition was clownish at best.He should
> go back to boston where the Mayor and the
> Governor have the same politics.
>
Iggy is not my favourite, but still the towers over Harper when it
comes to intellect , knowledge of law, democratic institutions, and
constitutional tradition. AND, most importantly he is a man with
reason on his side, a man who applies rational thinking to issues.
Harper, as a far right wing holy roller waiting for the imminent
return of the lord to this earth does not believe in reason as one can
so easily see if one watches the daily question periods. As for
applying reason to issues IT DOES NOT HAPPEN with Harper. .
In addition Harper " ... arguably suffers from what psychologists
refer to as malignant narcissism, a dangerously heightened sense of
self-importance. Otto Kernberg, a leader in the study of personality
disorders, describes malignant narcissism as "... extreme
self-absorption and insensitivity that often result in a trail of
victims -- emotional wreckage left in the narcissist's wake."
http://www.canadaka.net/forums/liberal-party-f63/stephen-harper-unfit-to-govern-t83662.html
WHO , in their right mind would support a man like that. He is unfit
to govern as the article says.
Penny
penny
<terml...@democracy.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 04 Jan 2010 21:42:17 -0500, penny <gor...@sentex.net > wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 1 Jan 2010 19:33:17 -0800 (PST), Charlie Yankee
>><charli...@live.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Dec 31 2009, 2:30�pm, penny <gora...@sentex.net > wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 10:13:37 -0800 (PST),CharlieYankee
>>>>
>>>> <charlieyan...@live.com> wrote:
>>>> >On Dec 30, 8:35�pm, penny <gora...@sentex.net > wrote:
>>>> >> �Harper is ruining our once enviable reputation around the world.
>>>>
>>>> >Harper is definitely ruining the reputation of Canada as a naive,
>>>> >testicularly-challenged do-gooder that confuses being liked with being
>>>> >respected. �It's nice to have a PM who doesn't give a crap what Bono
>>>> >thinks (or Murray Dobbin, for that matter).
>>>>
>>>> But Harper �does give a crap what George Bush and his clones think and
>>>> what climate nay-sayers and �his right wing evangelical church think.
>>>> Murray seems angelic in comparison. . �
>>>
>>>George Bush is gone. It's time you guys let him go.
>>
>>
>>George Bush has not gone. His divisive and destructive policies are
>>still alive and well in the Republicans in Congress who are still
>>carrying on the obscene anti--humanity policies of Bush.
>>
>>Bush will not be "gone" until he has been made accountable for his
>>crimes against humanity. The US cannot move forward until this has
>>been done.
>
>Well, you better include Obama and the democratic controlled congress
>in that indictment, given they have not only continued those policies
>in general, but have increased the application of many of them. Twice
>as many Drone attacks in Obama's one year in office as Bush ordered
>during his 8 years in office. Obama's adding two more countries to
>the war effort, Yemen and Somalia. 30K more troops in Afghanistan,
>Gitmo is still open and the Patriot Act is still in force. And to top
>it off, Homeland Security is still a joke.
Not as much of a joke as during Bush days and Hurricane Katrina, to
cite one example.
Obama is unfortunately involved in the huge clean-up after Bush which
will take a long time. Don't forget Bush's destructive acts were
responsible for increasing terrorism in the world.. Obama has been
left holding his baby.
Bush is guilty of horrific crimes against humanity. He is responsible
for the killing , maiming, torturing, or displacing of more than 3
million people . And that doesn't include his crimes domestically.
And even that's the tip of the iceberg. Read all 51 pages of Bush's
crimes against humanity and WEEP ! And don't dare mention Obama's
name in the same sentence as that horror !
http://www.bushcommission.org/Findings/Final%20Verdict.pdf
Penny
penny
wrote:
>The amount of money proposed for defense in the next 20 years ($490
>billion), if totally ridiculous. Harper is an idiot.
Only 10 billion off half a trillion.
Harper is not the only one who's the idiot. We are all idiots for
allowing him to get away with it.
Meanwhile poverty is increasing, and we have more food banks in
Canada than MacDonald's.. And Harper continues to give handouts to
the wealthy, as well as pollute our atmosphere and increase our
emissions of GHG's
As the article says Harper is not fit to govern. and :
" Harper arguably suffers from what psychologists refer to as
malignant narcissism, a dangerously heightened sense of
self-importance. Otto Kernberg, a leader in the study of personality
disorders, describes malignant narcissism as "... extreme
self-absorption and insensitivity that often result in a trail of
victims -- emotional wreckage left in the narcissist's wake."
"The victims Kernberg refers to are, of course, individuals but in our
case the principal victim is the Canadian nation -- its humanist
accomplishments, its art and culture, the foundation of its science,
its international standing and its democratic governance."
"
http://www.canadaka.net/forums/liberal-party-f63/stephen-harper-unfit-to-govern-t83662.html
Harper is making us into Pentagon North !
And that's just the tiny tip of his iceberg.
Penny
>==
penny
>
>The idea of 192 countries working together to make the world a better place
>is naive. You assume that international politics is based on altruism
I don't assume any such thing although altruism would be sublime., but
if you don't like altruism then go for safety and stability for
starters.
Without the UN input into codifying " the principles and techniques of
international air navigation, and fostering the planning and
development of international air transport to ensure safe and orderly
growth, " it would be chaos out there.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_International_Civil_Aviation
Similarly, with the laws of the sea .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Convention_on_the_Law_of_the_Sea#Historical_background
And you might substitute NEED , for altruism when it comes to global
trade.
You must have forgotten that we now live in a global village with no
borders except to keep the terrorists out. Oh, the irony.
We are all interdependent and we in Canada depend on other countries
for much of what we eat in our winters. I don't find much in the
supermarkets that comes from Canada during our winters.
And it's much more than just our food we are dependent on from other
countries. .
Unfortunately, the UN is not involved in regulating global trade and
we have allowed ourselves to get careless and let our independence and
self-sufficiency in necessities like food go slowly down the sink.
Corporations regulate global trade and they don't have our future
well-being in mind when their motivation is profit.
We need the UN o get in on the organization by developing a kind of
world parliament to look out for us in the global trade area. A
global Keynesian Consensus was discussed some decades ago by the UN
but the fast growth of global transnational corporations stopped it.
And we are the losers.
>. It
>isn't and never has been; not even foreign aid is free as it comes with
>strings and policy intentions attached. Do you really think Sudan was
>working for global good at Copenhagen? Or is it more likely Sudan was
>looking for any deal that ensure it received free money? The claim that the
>one of the most corrupt government's on earth acting altruistically is
>abusrd.
Your thinking is picky and illogical. You seem to forget that the
world is a global village and the UN represented by 192 countries is
imperative for the stability ,safety, and even sustainability it is
able to give us .
But we need to support it more and give it a good overhaul.
Up the UN and all it stands for !!!!
Penny