Newsgroup configuration, Reply to does not deliver my response to the newsgroup.

[newbie]

When I reply to a post, it never shows up.

I notice the To: tag of my reply is the from: tag, the author of the note.

What got messed up?
It used to work, but I have been through several updates to Thunderbird version,
Now TB 17

[Jim Porter]

On 02/11/2013 04:24 PM, newbie wrote:
> When I reply to a post, it never shows up.

Thunderbird now uses the standard terminology for newsgroup responses
("Reply" is used for email responses, and "Followup" is used for
newsgroup responses), as defined by the Good Netkeeping Seal of
Approval[1]. The tooltips on the buttons explain exactly where the
message will be sent.

In other words: Use the Followup button.

- Jim

[1] http://js.home.xs4all.nl/gnksa/

[Mike Easter]

newbie wrote:
> When I reply to a post, it never shows up.
>
> I notice the To: tag of my reply is the from: tag, the author of the note.

Don't use Reply button, use Followup for news messages.

> What got messed up?
> It used to work, but I have been through several updates to Thunderbird
> version,

I never Reply to the author of a newsgroup post either individually or
in combination with a followup to the newsgroup, so I removed the Reply
button from the header section of my news message pane.

R click in the message pane's header section and use Customize and drag.


--
Mike Easter

[king-daddy]

Thanks

--
The more I learn the dumber I feel.

[Robert Alexander]

Instead of clicking on reply click on followup instead. Sometimes I
accidentally lake that mistake.

--
Robert

[Frank]

I'm always screwing it up. Ctrl R may be easier to remember.

[David E. Ross]

On 2/11/13 2:50 PM, Mike Easter wrote [in part]:
> newbie wrote [also in part]:

>> When I reply to a post, it never shows up.
>>
>> I notice the To: tag of my reply is the from: tag, the author of the note.
>
> Don't use Reply button, use Followup for news messages.

I followed a similar discussion last year. However, in my configuration
(see below), there is no Followup button on my tool bar or available on
the Customize Toolbar window. There is a Reply (not Reply To) button on
my tool bar that I use to reply to newsgroups; I used that button to
compose this reply.

My configuration:
Windows XP Home Edition SP3
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130107 Thunderbird/17.0.2
Default 17.0.2 theme
Extensions
CompactHeader 2.0.6
Rise of the Tools 1.0.1.0
Signature Switch 1.6.11
Toggle Word Wrap 1.9

Given the strong potential for confusion between Followup and
Followup-to and the fact that I am indeed replying to a prior message in
a newsgroup and thus expect my reply to appear in that newsgroup, I
think the change in terminology was quite unfortunate.

--
David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com/>

Are taxes too high in the U.S.? Check the bar graph
at <http://www.rossde.com/taxes/trickling.html> to see.

[goodwin]

What the heck is this about? I have always used Reply in email and in
newsgroups without an issue. What is this folllowup thing (I know what
follow up to another group is)? And why do I not have a problem using
the old "Reply"?

just wonderin what I'm not missing...

[WaltS]

If you use Reply from the Mail Toolbar the reply will go to a newsgroup.

If you use Reply from the Message Header in a newsgroup post the reply
will go to the posters email, and not show up in the newsgroup.

The best method IMHO is to remove Reply from the Message Header, add the
Followup button (aka Smart Reply).

--
Fedora 18.0 (64-bit) KDE 4.9.5
Thunderbird Release

[Chris Ilias]

Here you go:
<https://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.support.thunderbird/browse_frm/thread/22ff604edb96162b>
--
Chris Ilias <http://ilias.ca>
Mailing list/Newsgroup moderator

[David E. Ross]

Which Forward? In the Customize Toolbar window, there are two icons
labeled Forward. One has a green arrow, and the other has an orange
arrow with a white rectangle behind it.

Actually, I solved the problem by removing ALL buttons from the header
tool bar. Since I use the Compact Header extension, there really was
not enough room in the one-line header space for buttons.

[goodwin]

link didn't get loaded beyond google groups intro page...

[The Wanderer]

On 02/11/2013 08:34 PM, WaltS wrote:

> If you use Reply from the Mail Toolbar the reply will go to a newsgroup.
>
> If you use Reply from the Message Header in a newsgroup post the reply
> will go to the posters email, and not show up in the newsgroup.

What will happen if you just hit Ctrl-R?

--
The Wanderer

Warning: Simply because I argue an issue does not mean I agree with any
side of it.

Every time you let somebody set a limit they start moving it.
- LiveJournal user antonia_tiger

[Jay Garcia]

On 11.02.2013 22:52, The Wanderer wrote:

--- Original Message ---

> On 02/11/2013 08:34 PM, WaltS wrote:
>
>> If you use Reply from the Mail Toolbar the reply will go to a newsgroup.
>>
>> If you use Reply from the Message Header in a newsgroup post the reply
>> will go to the posters email, and not show up in the newsgroup.
>
> What will happen if you just hit Ctrl-R?
>

Reply to the message in the newsgroup.

--
Jay Garcia - www.ufaq.org - Netscape - Firefox - SeaMonkey - Thunderbird
Mozilla Contribute Coordinator Team - www.mozilla.org/contribute/
Mozilla Mozillian Member - www.mozillians.org
Mozilla Contributor Member - www.mozilla.org/credits/

[WaltS]

On 02/12/2013 12:15 AM, Jay Garcia wrote:
> On 11.02.2013 22:52, The Wanderer wrote:
>
> --- Original Message ---
>
>> On 02/11/2013 08:34 PM, WaltS wrote:
>>
>>> If you use Reply from the Mail Toolbar the reply will go to a newsgroup.
>>>
>>> If you use Reply from the Message Header in a newsgroup post the reply
>>> will go to the posters email, and not show up in the newsgroup.
>>
>> What will happen if you just hit Ctrl-R?
>>
>
> Reply to the message in the newsgroup.
>

Which calls Reply from the Mail Toolbar, and not the Reply from the
Message Header, if that button is there.

Nice to know if I ever start using keyboard shortcuts.

[Jim Porter]

On 02/11/2013 06:37 PM, Frank wrote:
> I'm always screwing it up. Ctrl R may be easier to remember.

If it helps, the logic for the header buttons is that, in the default
configuration, the first button is a "narrow response" (i.e. just to the
author), and the second button is a "wide response" (i.e. reply all,
reply to list, or followup to newsgroup).

If you use mailing lists and newsgroups, this has the benefit that the
second button *always* means "respond to the list/group", whereas prior
to this change, it depended on whether you were looking at mail or
newsgroups.

- Jim

[Frank]

For newsgroups, it's not intuitive and I have not found a way to drag
reply off. I often find myself replying to a thread to get a note back
that the user does not exist and realize I had hit the reply rather than
follow-up button. Minor annoyance but it is an annoyance.

[Robert Alexander]

Just right click on the button, click customize then drag reply to the
window that opens up.

--
Robert

[Frank]

When I do that, the box opens up over the icons and I can't drag anything.

[Robert Alexander]

Have you tried resizing or moving the box to another location on your
screen? I had to, then I was able to drag the button into the window
with no problem.

--
Robert

[Frank]

That works. What was confusing was different icons coming up but I've
got it straightened out.

Thanks,
Frank

[Miles]

* newbie wrote, On 12-Feb-13 05:24:

I have no idea what everyone is talking about in this thread. Using
TB 17.0.2 on Win7 there is not a button "smart reply," except when I
right click on the header portion of a msg in newsgroups and customize
that button is there. But it won't drag anywhere. I still operate as
always "reply" is reply to the newsgroup only and "reply all" is reply
to the newsgroup plus the sender.

Could one of the many add-ons be controlling this or am I simply
missing something?

[Robert Alexander]

Unless you are in the customize mode the smart reply says followup. When
you open the customize window it will say smart reply. included is a
link to a screen shot to a screen with the customize window open. If you
drag and drop the reply button in the window to the toolbar and click
done the toolbar will have a reply icon and a followup icon in the
toolbar. The reply button will open a compose window to reply to the
original sender while the followup button will open a compose window to
reply to the newsgroup. Or clicking the the down arrow on the followup
button will give you a choice to followup which replies to the
newsgroup, reply which replies to the original sender, or reply to all
which replies to both the original sender and the newsgroup.

Here is the link to the screenshot
https://www.dropbox.com/s/i0rne6vm3ww8x6e/Toolbar%20screenshot.png

--
Robert

[Swifty]

On 13/02/2013 04:37, Robert Alexander wrote:
> Unless you are in the customize mode the smart reply

I've got just "Reply", and I'm fairly sure that is a "Smart Reply". I
used it to send this.

I can't find any way to get a "Reply to Sender" button at all, despite
looking long and hard at the Customize window.

The place where I'm trying to get a "Reply to Sender" button is in the
header of the Article pane.

Is there any hope for me?

[Miles]

* Swifty wrote, On 13-Feb-13 18:04:

Think we're in similar boats. What is seen in the Mail Toolbar
amongst other items is "reply" which is to NG only, "Reply All" which
is to NG + writer (in the NG), & "Forward" which is a blank header as
it should be. However all 3 have a drop down arrow on the right
side. (Displaying as Text or Icon beside Text the drop down is an
arrow on the right side of each button.) The drop down for Reply
offers choice of NG only; Reply All offers NG + Writer; Forward is
blank as it should be.

I've tried it in safe mode with same result. There is another
customized entry that can be added "Reply to List" but it does nothing
when I'm in the NG, so dragged it back out as haven't ever found a
need for it. And I've reduced and moved the customization window all
over the screen with no effect. Nowhere is seen Smart Reply or a
followup button.

However, right click on a NG msg and have follow up=to NG only,
reply=to NG only, Reply to all=NG & Sender; and Forward & Forward as
and these all offer with or without attachment; and the one difference
here is that Reply to List=send to NG & Sender, or as attachment.

[Swifty]

On 13/02/2013 14:05, Miles wrote:
> Think we're in similar boats. What is seen in the Mail Toolbar amongst
> other items is "reply" which is to NG only, "Reply All" which is to NG +
> writer (in the NG), & "Forward" which is a blank header as it should
> be. However all 3 have a drop down arrow on the right side.

I know nothing of this "Mail Toolbar" of which you speak. I have text
buttons "Reply", "Forward" and "Other actions" at rge right-hand end of
the grey bar above the newsgroup article (from which the text above
comes). Only the "Other actions" has a drop-down arrow, and there's no
reply-related functions in the list.

Interestingly, whilst I'm in "Customize..." I get an extra "Junk"
button, which I'd hoped might have killed the thread (I think the "K"
shortcut has the same effect, but I can't test it right now).

[Miles]

* Swifty wrote, On 14-Feb-13 01:38:

After losing the bars I searched and found this:

http://thunderbirdtweaks.blogspot.com/2012/02/hidden-lost-menu-and-toolbar.html

Hopefully this will provide you with the needed toolbars. Basically
what it reads is to restore the toolbars with TB in focus is to hit
Alt which will restore them for a short while or F10 to restore it
longer. For me F10 only brings up the volume setting, guess that's
related to a setting in my HP laptop controlling the F keys.

At any rate, playing with it this morning I got the menu bar back
using Alt, but not the bar at the top that has the mozilla icon on the
top left for closing the program, etc. Without this bar being open
one doesn't even know what program they're looking at.

I wish to hell TB people would immediately discontinue making changes
and instead fix some of the 10 year old bugs. In the meantime I just
want to go back a few versions that don't have this garbage -- what is
the recommended version -- 11 or?

[Sjouke Burry]

Miles <mile...@REMOVEMEpacbell.net> wrote in
news:rPCdnTirccA6u4HM...@mozilla.org:

I am quite satisfied with version 3.6.10.
That was, when I jumped off the update-merry-go-round.
Have not been disappointed yet.
And all my addons are still working like they should.
I think that all those updates act as a form of job-security.

[David E. Ross]

What you are seeing -- the loss of the title bar -- is a disimprovement
foisted by the developers without any great end-user demand. To fix it,
install the Rise of the Tools extension from
<https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/rise-of-the-tools/>.

[Robert Alexander]

Or set mail.tabs.DrawInTitlebar to false in config editor and the title
bar will be displayed.

--
Robert

[Miles]

* Robert Alexander wrote, On 14-Feb-13 08:40:

Thank you, Robert, that instantly fixed it.

Is Swifty OK now?

[ayob...@gmail.com]

[Thufir Hawat]

On Thu, 14 Feb 2013 05:36:40 -0500, Ken Whiton wrote:


> Most of the people whose posts you see here can't see your posts.
> Mozilla's policy is that their newsgroups aren't supposed to be
> propagated to Usenet.


That's madness. Are you sure about that? I went ahead configured
leafnode to pull from news.mozilla.org and put it high on the list of
servers so that posts will be preferred there, but...

That policy completely breaks USENET. If they want to moderate posts,
that's fine, if they want to just make the newsgroup an archive of a
mailing list, also ok. There are other solutions which don't break
USENET.


-Thufir

[Beauregard T. Shagnasty]

But this isn't USENET! news.mozilla.org is a private news server (using
the giganews facility), and is not considered a part of Usenet. These
servers are not *supposed* to propagate to all news servers.

--
-bts
-This space for rent, but the price is high

[Mike Easter]

Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
> Thufir Hawat wrote:
>> Ken Whiton wrote:

>>> Most of the people whose posts you see here can't see your
>>> posts. Mozilla's policy is that their newsgroups aren't supposed
>>> to be propagated to Usenet.

Ken's message can be seen in HK's tool:

http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?ID=136102333100

He was replying to a message from David whose message can also be seen
that way and at the link above Ken also gave some explanation for what
was causing the 'side channel' effect, which is probably confusing those
who can't see the messages (such as me, unless I use HK's tool).

David's message to which he was responding can be seen here:

http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?ID=136102342500

For those who are so motivated, if you view the Path headers you can see
the news servers involved in the 'leak' from the moz server.

The only approved channels for reading and posting messages to this
support group are google groups, the moz server, or the mailing list.

>> That's madness. Are you sure about that? I went ahead configured
>> leafnode to pull from news.mozilla.org and put it high on the list of
>> servers so that posts will be preferred there, but...
>>
>> That policy completely breaks USENET. If they want to moderate posts,
>> that's fine, if they want to just make the newsgroup an archive of a
>> mailing list, also ok. There are other solutions which don't break
>> USENET.

Running your own internal server like leafnode is only OK for posting to
this group if you configure your server to post messages to the moz
server, not some other channel which is a leak. David's and Ken's
messages did not appear on the moz server nor the GG thread for this
topic which can be seen here:

http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.support.thunderbird/browse_frm/thread/5014893774662e4f/4f9a1b7d8e08bb78?hl=en&tvc=1#4f9a1b7d8e08bb78

> But this isn't USENET! news.mozilla.org is a private news server (using
> the giganews facility), and is not considered a part of Usenet. These
> servers are not *supposed* to propagate to all news servers.

Absolutely.

BTS and TH messages are the first to appear on the moz server and the GG
thread. The earlier messages from David and Ken involve a side-channel
leak from the moz server.

David's message started from an astraweb server and Ken's from a newsguy.


--
Mike Easter

[Chris Ilias]

On 2013-02-16 5:16 AM, Thufir Hawat wrote:
> That's madness. Are you sure about that? I went ahead configured
> leafnode to pull from news.mozilla.org and put it high on the list of
> servers so that posts will be preferred there, but...
>
> That policy completely breaks USENET. If they want to moderate posts,
> that's fine, if they want to just make the newsgroup an archive of a
> mailing list, also ok. There are other solutions which don't break
> USENET.

The mozilla.* newsgroups are not propagated to usenet. If any of the
mozilla.* newsgroups appear on Usenet servers, it is because they (or a
server they are partnering with) is picking up messages disguising
themselves as newsreaders. See
<https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=326759>.

That's why <http://www.mozilla.org/about/forums/#newsgroups> says "The
mozilla.* hierarchy is a local news hierarchy only available through
news.mozilla.org and is not propagated to other Usenet servers. This is
by design, in order to both help eliminate spam and provide slower lag
time between posts and replies without having to wait for propagation.
Please do not mirror our newsgroups elsewhere without providing a
disclaimer that people should use news.mozilla.org to post."

--
Chris Ilias <http://ilias.ca>
Mailing list/Newsgroup moderator

[Thufir Hawat]

On Sat, 16 Feb 2013 18:25:00 -0500, Chris Ilias wrote:


> The mozilla.* newsgroups are not propagated to usenet. If any of the
> mozilla.* newsgroups appear on Usenet servers, it is because they (or a
> server they are partnering with) is picking up messages disguising
> themselves as newsreaders.

Perhaps off topic, but I don't think so. What makes them *not* part of
usenet? After all, and correct me if I'm wrong, microsoft.* hierarchies
are part of usenet. What differentiates mozilla.* from other hierarchies?


-Thufir

[David E. Ross]

Usenet consists of the newsgroups in the comp.*, news.*, sci.*,
humanities.*, rec.*, soc.*, talk.*, and misc.* hierarchies -- the Big-8
newsgroup hierarchies. It does not include newsgroups in the alt.*,
mozilla.*, microsoft.*, or other such hierarchies.

You are confusing Usenet with the larger world of NNTP (network news
transfer protocol) newsgroups.

[The Wanderer]

On 02/16/2013 06:25 PM, Chris Ilias wrote:

> On 2013-02-16 5:16 AM, Thufir Hawat wrote:
>
>> That's madness. Are you sure about that? I went ahead configured leafnode
>> to pull from news.mozilla.org and put it high on the list of servers so
>> that posts will be preferred there, but...
>>
>> That policy completely breaks USENET. If they want to moderate posts,
>> that's fine, if they want to just make the newsgroup an archive of a
>> mailing list, also ok. There are other solutions which don't break USENET.
>>
>
> The mozilla.* newsgroups are not propagated to usenet.

<snip>

> That's why <http://www.mozilla.org/about/forums/#newsgroups> says "The
> mozilla.* hierarchy is a local news hierarchy only available through
> news.mozilla.org and is not propagated to other Usenet servers.

The use of the word "other" would seem to imply that whoever wrote that
explanation thinks that news.mozilla.org is a Usenet server, which in turn would
seem to imply that that person thinks that mozilla.* is part of Usenet.

I recognize the arguments being presented in favor of not considering mozilla.*
as part of Usenet, and I certainly acknowledge the practical considerations
behind the request to post to mozilla.* only via news.mozilla.org (due to the
mail interface if nothing else), but this discrepancy still seems worth pointing
out.

--
The Wanderer

Warning: Simply because I argue an issue does not mean I agree with any
side of it.

Every time you let somebody set a limit they start moving it.
- LiveJournal user antonia_tiger

[Chris Ilias]

News servers that contain Usenet newsgroups "peer" with other servers to
make sure all peers have the latest messages. When it comes to the
mozilla.* newsgroups, news.mozilla.org is configured to only send
messages from these newsgroups to Google Groups, and Google Groups is
configured to send messages in mozilla.* newsgroups only to
news.mozilla.org.

That's what I mean by "The mozilla.* newsgroups are not propagated to
usenet." :)

[Thufir Hawat]

On Sat, 16 Feb 2013 18:25:00 -0500, Chris Ilias wrote:

> That's why <http://www.mozilla.org/about/forums/#newsgroups> says "The
> mozilla.* hierarchy is a local news hierarchy only available through
> news.mozilla.org and is not propagated to other Usenet servers.

Interesting. This is a policy, and not a technical distinction, is that
correct? Maybe I've missed it, or never read it, but maybe there should
be a FAQ once a week posted to the group explaining that posts through
other news servers won't propagate correctly.


-Thufir

[Mike Easter]

Thufir Hawat wrote:

> Interesting. This is a policy, and not a technical distinction, is that
> correct? Maybe I've missed it, or never read it, but maybe there should
> be a FAQ once a week posted to the group explaining that posts through
> other news servers won't propagate correctly.

As a general rule, the moz groups do not appear on 'any' usenet servers,
in spite of your experience to the contrary.

I have 10 different usenet servers, 3 of which are pay and very complete
especially in terms of text groups. Some of those 10 carry so-called
'rump' groups which were not properly created.

None of the servers I use carry any of the moz groups. If I didn't read
and post to the moz server, I wouldn't be reading any of the moz group
messages nor could I subscribe or post to any of them via those servers.

If someone runs their own news server in a 'casual' or loose sort of
way, they could 'mix up' nntp news messages which are appearing on
specialty/public/private servers with those which are appearing on
general public usenet servers. The same thing sometimes happens with
webforums which scrape from usenet servers.

Someone mentioned the microsoft private/public groups earlier. That is
a very complicated story which is no longer run in the way it was.

Once, MS provided web access and nntp access to their groups and also
let the groups loose out into the wild. Then they quit running their
own nntp servers and also quit 'supporting' newsgroups. Nowadays the
MS.public groups are there on usenet because people want the groups to
exist.




--
Mike Easter

[Chris Ilias]

On 2013-02-17 7:44 PM, Thufir Hawat wrote:
> On Sat, 16 Feb 2013 18:25:00 -0500, Chris Ilias wrote:
>
>> That's why <http://www.mozilla.org/about/forums/#newsgroups> says "The
>> mozilla.* hierarchy is a local news hierarchy only available through
>> news.mozilla.org and is not propagated to other Usenet servers.
>
> Interesting. This is a policy, and not a technical distinction, is that
> correct?

It's both. :) The server is configured in accordance with the policy.

news.mozilla.org is configured to only send messages from these
newsgroups to Google Groups, and Google Groups is configured to send
messages in mozilla.* newsgroups only to news.mozilla.org.

That's intentional.

> Maybe I've missed it, or never read it, but maybe there should
> be a FAQ once a week posted to the group explaining that posts through
> other news servers won't propagate correctly.

That depends how big the problem is.

[John H Meyers]

On 2/11/2013 4:40 PM, Jim Porter wrote:

> On 02/11/2013 04:24 PM, newbie wrote:
>> When I reply to a post, it never shows up.

> Thunderbird now uses the standard terminology for newsgroup responses ("Reply" is used for email
> responses, and "Followup" is used for newsgroup responses)

Oh sure, and no one will confuse "Follow-up" with "Follow-up-to" :)

Has anyone compiled statistics on the percentage of "replies" of any sort,
in USENET accounts, that are ever made just by mail, and not intended for
posting? Is "reply to sender only" so unclear that it needs changing
all precedents in the former use of this language, to confuse everyone now?

On my private property in USA, I've decided that everyone should drive
on the left side of my roads, that octagonal signs should mean
"deer crossing," that red lights should mean "go ahead"
and should always be placed below the green "stop" traffic lights.

There, that should keep everyone on my "standards" while they are on
my property, and I don't give a hoot for what the world has always done before.

On <http://www.redgreen.com/> (and on all episodes of all that TV series)
it's a standing joke that the word "red" is in green letters
while the word "green" is in red letters, so just get used to
the same joke in TB, so long as you don't use any other interfaces.

Does anyone have a car that allows the steering wheel
to be moved from side to side, in case you ever go through
a tunnel, take a ferry, or cross a border
between countries which drive on opposite sides of the road?

How about a user-configurable option for the titles we're
debating at the moment, to do the same for anyone
who has to use programs that are just as opposed to each other?

--

[John H Meyers]

On 2/11/2013 4:40 PM, Jim Porter wrote:

> Thunderbird now uses the standard terminology for newsgroup responses ("Reply"
> is used for email responses, and "Followup" is used for newsgroup responses)

If we're "standardizing," how come there are still no message bodies stored
for those same newsgroup accounts, how come "delete" is still locked by default,
only in News accounts, and how come there is even any distinction between
Mail vs. News accounts, or between Men's rooms and Ladies' rooms?

Vive La Différence!

--

[John H Meyers]

On 2/11/2013 11:15 PM:


>> What will happen if you just hit Ctrl-R?

> Reply to the message in the newsgroup.

Ah, so the "renaming of functions for standardization"
goes only as far as buttons, but not as far as shortcut keys?

This is beginning to make sense out of the quote:

"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds,
adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines."
<http://www.bartleby.com/100/420.47.html>

--

[WaltS]

Stored where? Offline?

Possibly no message bodies are stored because you didn't configure
"Synchronization and Storage" settings to "Select newsgroups for offline
use..."

No message bodies are stored in any of my other news readers, just the
headers. Have to download the body each time I read a post, new or old.

Agree with you on the delete issue. All my other news readers allow
deleting of messages. But it is easy enough to fix in ThunderBird.

Why is there a distinction between Mail, Blogs & News Feeds, Chat, and
Newsgroup accounts?

Why aren't the new releases out yet!

--
Fedora 18.0 (64-bit) KDE 4.9.5
Thunderbird Release
Are they out yet?

[David E. Ross]

On 2/11/13 9:15 PM, Jay Garcia wrote:
> On 11.02.2013 22:52, The Wanderer wrote:
>
> --- Original Message ---
>
>> On 02/11/2013 08:34 PM, WaltS wrote:
>>
>>> If you use Reply from the Mail Toolbar the reply will go to a newsgroup.
>>>
>>> If you use Reply from the Message Header in a newsgroup post the reply
>>> will go to the posters email, and not show up in the newsgroup.

>>
>> What will happen if you just hit Ctrl-R?
>>
>
> Reply to the message in the newsgroup.
>

No. Per the label in the pull-down list for Message in the menu bar,
Ctrl-r is "Followup to Newsgroup". Of course, this should have been
Ctrl-f; but that is already taken. (How about Ctrl-fu for "Follow Up"? :) )

When I was first exposed to a PC and Windows, it was easy to remember
that Ctrl-c was Copy. It took longer to remember that Ctrl-v was Paste
and Ctrl-x was Cut. On the other hand, I will always think that, in
Thunderbird, Ctrl-r is Reply, not Followup.

[Jay Garcia]

On 19.02.2013 09:59, David E. Ross wrote:

--- Original Message ---

> On 2/11/13 9:15 PM, Jay Garcia wrote:
>> On 11.02.2013 22:52, The Wanderer wrote:
>>
>> --- Original Message ---
>>
>>> On 02/11/2013 08:34 PM, WaltS wrote:
>>>
>>>> If you use Reply from the Mail Toolbar the reply will go to a newsgroup.
>>>>
>>>> If you use Reply from the Message Header in a newsgroup post the reply
>>>> will go to the posters email, and not show up in the newsgroup.
>>>
>>> What will happen if you just hit Ctrl-R?
>>>
>>
>> Reply to the message in the newsgroup.
>>
>
> No. Per the label in the pull-down list for Message in the menu bar,
> Ctrl-r is "Followup to Newsgroup". Of course, this should have been
> Ctrl-f; but that is already taken. (How about Ctrl-fu for "Follow Up"? :) )
>
> When I was first exposed to a PC and Windows, it was easy to remember
> that Ctrl-c was Copy. It took longer to remember that Ctrl-v was Paste
> and Ctrl-x was Cut. On the other hand, I will always think that, in
> Thunderbird, Ctrl-r is Reply, not Followup.
>

I hit CTRL + R to post this reply to you.


--
Jay Garcia - www.ufaq.org - Netscape - Firefox - SeaMonkey - Thunderbird
Mozilla Contribute Coordinator Team - www.mozilla.org/contribute/
Mozilla Mozillian Member - www.mozillians.org
Mozilla Contributor Member - www.mozilla.org/credits/

[Jim Porter]

On 02/19/2013 07:33 AM, John H Meyers wrote:
> On 2/11/2013 4:40 PM, Jim Porter wrote:
>> Thunderbird now uses the standard terminology for newsgroup responses
>> ("Reply" is used for email
>> responses, and "Followup" is used for newsgroup responses)
>
> Oh sure, and no one will confuse "Follow-up" with "Follow-up-to" :)

Do people often confuse "Reply" and "Reply-To"? The naming scheme is
exactly the same: a "Reply-To" header changes where a message goes if
you hit "Reply"; a "Followup-To" header changes where a message goes if
you hit "Followup".

- Jim

[Jim Porter]

On 02/19/2013 07:44 AM, John H Meyers wrote:
> If we're "standardizing," how come there are still no message bodies stored
> for those same newsgroup accounts,

This is something I'd like to change, but for it to be more useful, we'd
need to enable Gloda on news messages. This is hard, for reasons which
are complicated.

> how come "delete" is still locked by default,

I plan on fixing that in the near future, too. I'm just waiting on
review for a prerequisite bug.

- Jim

[John H Meyers]

It's positively encouraging to see usability mattering again,
and the "mozilla.dev.usability" newsgroup now even come alive again
in my version of TB -- for ages I never saw a new post appear in it,
for no reason that I could fathom, except for possible death of the group.

I normally don't try to mix topics, but not long ago I had an impulse
to post a short, multiple-choice quiz, asking whether TB is
that type of client which can support only one user per computer,
or is it designed for multiple users, and even as to each user,
can (s)he have only one instance of a TB profile, or many?

Once the non-controversial correct answers were agreed upon,
my next question was to ask how many copies of the program
normally exist per machine, and then, if by any chance
there were to exist an option by which the computer owner
were to be able to tell TB not to update that single copy,
where would be the best place to store that option --
would it be in just one of the many profiles
which just one of the many users might be making active,
or might it better be located with the program files
or "Registry" (for Windows), so that it could have any hope
of really having any effect to protect the single copy of program files?

Being the maker of outrageously graphic (but memorable) analogies that I am,
I compare what occurs in my computer with these unstoppable updates
to "date rape," where if she tapes a sign on one breast to keep hands off,
the guy just grabs the other one, and even if finally signs are pasted
over most every body part, then the guy simply tries groping the
date's sister (any other user) instead. I often have to test or start with
TB's original state via an empty new profile folder, which is pretty much like
running unclothed through a bar filled with gropers -- well,
I'm sure everyone gets the idea: why isn't said option
saved in a place that makes more sense for a product
already designed for a multi-user, multi-profile-per-user system,
but having taken no heed of that fundamental fact
in its useless and ineffective location for any
"don't try inseminating any new version into my computer
without my explicit permission" option, entirely defeated
if even a single profile (on a remote share, say) ever remains unprotected?

Making even "about this program" start causing an update
is bad enough, but the above even dwarfs that issue
of "whose computer is this, anyway?" and by the way,
I never even was asked to "agree" to any of this policy,
which is another reason to consider it as outright "computer rape."

--

[John H Meyers]

On 2/16/2013 5:25 PM, Chris Ilias wrote:

> The mozilla.* newsgroups are not propagated to usenet. If any of the mozilla.* newsgroups appear on
> Usenet servers, it is because they (or a server they are partnering with) is picking up messages
> disguising themselves as newsreaders. See <https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=326759>.
>
> That's why <http://www.mozilla.org/about/forums/#newsgroups> says "The mozilla.* hierarchy is a
> local news hierarchy only available through news.mozilla.org and is not propagated to other Usenet
> servers. This is by design, in order to both help eliminate spam and provide slower lag time
> between posts and replies without having to wait for propagation. Please do not mirror our
> newsgroups elsewhere without providing a disclaimer that people should use news.mozilla.org to post."

I was about to ask whether Mozilla.org objects to Google's archiving
(without which there would be no permanent record
nor way of creating a "permalink" to anything here).

Does the following indicate that there's no objection to Google?
<https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=326759#c0>

Can one do the reverse -- post here from Google?
If so, isn't that "usenet"?

Google's own "About this group" for "mozilla.support.thunderbird"
says "Access: Public - Usenet" on the left, and
"This is a Usenet group - learn more" on the right, FWIW,
since they must be getting feed via some connection to Giganews,
your "non-usenet" host :)

So might it instead be appropriate to consider that this is Usenet,
but you just don't authorize any "peers" other than Google?

That makes it, by the way, like the shortest
subway line in New York City, which runs East-West between
Times Square and Grand Central station -- the "42nd street shuttle,"
which has only those two stops -- one at each end :)

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/42nd_Street_Shuttle>
<http://www.mta.info/nyct/service/sline.htm>

On the "other side of the pond," an older but longer line:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterloo_%26_City_line>
where history was just made: "the only occasions the line
has operated on Sundays was between 1943 and 1947,
during the London 2012 Olympic Games, and on 26 January 2013
due to maintenance work on both branches of the Northern line" :)

Cheers!

--

[John H Meyers]

On 3/1/2013 5:10 AM, John H Meyers wrote:

> Google's own "About this group" for "mozilla.support.thunderbird"

I forgot the URL:
<https://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.support.thunderbird/about>

--

[Chris Ilias]

On 2013-03-01 6:10 AM, John H Meyers wrote:
> On 2/16/2013 5:25 PM, Chris Ilias wrote:
>
>> That's why <http://www.mozilla.org/about/forums/#newsgroups> says "The
>> mozilla.* hierarchy is a
>> local news hierarchy only available through news.mozilla.org and is
>> not propagated to other Usenet
>> servers. This is by design, in order to both help eliminate spam and
>> provide slower lag time
>> between posts and replies without having to wait for propagation.
>> Please do not mirror our
>> newsgroups elsewhere without providing a disclaimer that people should
>> use news.mozilla.org to post."
>
> I was about to ask whether Mozilla.org objects to Google's archiving
> (without which there would be no permanent record
> nor way of creating a "permalink" to anything here).
>
> Does the following indicate that there's no objection to Google?
> <https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=326759#c0>

The newsgroups were set up with agreement from Google. That's why there
are "Google Groups" links along the right side of
<http://www.mozilla.org/about/forums/>.

For more info, visit
<http://www-archive.mozilla.org/community/giganews-migration.html>.

> Can one do the reverse -- post here from Google?

Yes.

> If so, isn't that "usenet"?

No, Google Groups also does not propagate these groups to usenet.

> Google's own "About this group" for "mozilla.support.thunderbird"
> says "Access: Public - Usenet" on the left, and
> "This is a Usenet group - learn more" on the right, FWIW,
> since they must be getting feed via some connection to Giganews,
> your "non-usenet" host :)

Yeah, to them anything that's peered with an NNTP server gets labelled
as usenet. This is a special case.