Comments on Thunderbird 3.0RC1
Ron Hunter
afford to waste vertical screen space in wholesale lots, displaying
little used data (headers) in from 1 inch to 1.5 inch spaces, and ICONS
in the header area! What's with THAT? Worse, the extension 'Compact
Headers', which worked fine with beta 3 seems broken, eliminating the
header altogether.
Even if all other aspects of this program are perfect, and the features
are great, I can't use the program on my netbook because I would be
reduced to such a small message area that I can't see the MESSAGE.
When/if the compact headers extension is fixed to work with the RC, or
final, I will try it again.
I read the blog on the reasoning for this change, but it looks like the
developers are more interested in getting the release OUT, than in
making it usable for the vast numbers of us who don't have really large
monitors.
So what's NEW?
brian
I've installed the CompactHeaders add-on,
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/13564 and it seems to
be functioning ok here - running TB 3.0RC1 on Ubuntu 9.10.
Brian
Ron Hunter
computer) has something to do with it. I will test it on Windows XP.
Rolf Gloor
Can't have any proper situ with CompactHeaders add-on.
Greetings,
Rolf
Ron Hunter
Brian
Just installed TB3.0RC1 (build 20091121) on Windows 7 along with the
CompactHeaders(0.99.8)and all is fine here.
Brian
clay
The developers get the final say as to what changes, what stays, and
what goes, so until I become a developer all I can say is thanks for all
the effort they put into it.
When the version for literates is released, I'll have another look at it.
Ron Hunter
Good news is that on this desktop with 1600x900 I can tolerate the
large, wasteful, DOUBLESPACED header area.
Not so on the netbook with (1024x597)
Ron Hunter
Version for literates???
Thomas Harold
> Well, it seems that the developers all have hugh monitors, and can
> afford to waste vertical screen space in wholesale lots, displaying
> little used data (headers) in from 1 inch to 1.5 inch spaces, and ICONS
> in the header area! What's with THAT? Worse, the extension 'Compact
> Headers', which worked fine with beta 3 seems broken, eliminating the
> header altogether.
There's also a current bug in cases where the headers contain very long
lines.
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=526918
Which makes things take up a lot more space in the header area then it
normally would.
Ron Hunter
new header format, but it takes up FAR more space than it really
requires. I just wish the devs. would pay attention to those who have
small monitors, or just want to see as much of a message as their screen
allows. As I post this, for instance, I am looking at three blank lines
below the 'mozilla.support.thunderbird' newsgroup line. WHY? The inch
that wastes on my monitor could display 5 more lines of message. I have
moved the composition icons to the menubar, and saved the space the
composition toolbar would have consumed, but what can I do about that
wasted inch?
Ron K.
Two comments in reply.
First is a question to see if You found a new Toolbar feature. To help the
netbook users, a new small icon with text to right of icon mode was added
to toolbar customization. Did You discover that change?
The same person who developed the compact header extension was working hard
to polish the button bar in the new header pane. He ran out of time, so
most of his work will be in a 3.0.1 stability update. As a counter move, he
also added that code to the extension. The essence of the work was addition
of Customization, mostly like the main Toolbar with a pallet.
--
Ron K.
Who is General Failure, and why is he searching my HDD?
Kernel Restore reported Major Error used BSOD to msg the enemy!
EE
If you use a message window rather than the message pane, or read the
message in a new tab, you will have more room.
clay
A version that has the option to display text only, in place of icons.
You know, like 2.0.x and every version before it.
Far as I can see, there is no option in 3.x to remove(!!) or show only
text for the icons on the header pane.
Ever since I learned my words, I've found icons to be a waste of space.
brian
Brian
Ron Hunter
closing the program. Grin.
JoeS
> a small message area that I can't see the MESSAGE.
This is purely experimental, and still in the development stage, the the auhtor is looking for input from folks
that use netbooks as to what UI should stay visible.
It does work OK for me in Winxp, but there is a little conflict with the compactheader extension.
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=499516
--
JoeS Using TB3
http://kb.mozillazine.org/Thunderbird_3.0_-_New_Features_and_Changes
https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Thunderbird/Thunderbird_Binaries
Ron Hunter
programmer of the extension will figure it out soon. Meanwhile, some
valuable screen space goes to waste. Glad I don't have to pay for the
wasted bits. Grin.
k2nnj
Go whine somewhere else or develop your own e-mail client if TB isn't
good enough for you!
A lot of people worked hard on this and you come along and slap them in
the face. What a way to show your appreciation, which obviously you
have none. What a Dbag.
JoeS
At any rate, the extension author may not know of the issue. You can contact him here:
http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=1405155
Ron Hunter
> On 11/25/2009 3:59 AM, Ron Hunter wrote:
>> I can't use the program on my netbook because I would be reduced to such
>> a small message area that I can't see the MESSAGE.
>
> This is purely experimental, and still in the development stage, the the
> auhtor is looking for input from folks
> that use netbooks as to what UI should stay visible.
> It does work OK for me in Winxp, but there is a little conflict with the
> compactheader extension.
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=499516
>
just having the old one line header option, and display full header
either by option, or on mouseover. There is good information in the
header display (normal), but there is TOO MUCH wasted space, and what's
with putting the Icons there? I already HAVE those on my menubar, moved
from the other toolbar...
Ron Hunter
Please act!
JoeS
Well, I can't speak for the Devs, but followed the issue closely.
The logic went something like this:
Good UI design dictates that actions be located as closely to the viewing pane as possible.
Menus and toolbars don't afford this, and the new message header provided a new look.
The thought was that most everything could be provided in the new message viewer header.
It didn't go so far as to remove the toolbars, but I think that thought might have come up.
So anyway, I don't think the F11 view is an overkill (It's not finalized yet)
Here is what it looks like with the compact header extension. It certainly gives you plenty of vert. real-estate.
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/9941/fullscreen.gif
Joe
JoeS
Sorry about that, I don't know why that image is rotated, but, you get the idea.
Ron Hunter
the buttons, help? I already have all the icons I need on the menubar
(customized). I DON'T need them inside the header display area. So,
WHY are they there at all? I can't see how that will help netbook
users. Or am I missing something?
Since I can't use the extension on this machine, it really doesn't help.
Now if I could customize what goes in the header display to eliminate
the redundant buttons, and save at least half the wasted space (no
double space, for instance), then I would be happy. Better would be a
one line display with just from and to, and expand it on mouseover, all
would be well.
Ron Hunter
Huh? Customize. Click on 'show' dropdown, select 'text'. Done.
BTW, text takes up a lot more room than icons, so I use just the icons.
Ron Hunter
to figure out how to get compact headers to work on this computer. At
least it does work on the netbook where the issue is most critical.
BTW, with my icons moved to the menubar, and no toolbar, and a compact
header (one line), the controls are CLOSER to the message area than with
the 'normal' header display.
Patrick Dardar
> So what's NEW?
I have the problem, that when I expand my newsgroups list
(I'm not clicking on a specific newsgroup but on the server),
it starts as usually with loading the message counts for
every group.
I don't read some use newsgroups for several weeks. In that time
they get a lot of new messages.
When Thunderbird now is retrieving the message count for every
group, it asks if it should download all the message when the count
for that group exceeds the maximum message count. It's quite
annoying.
Normal behaviour would be to do that only when I click on the
group to open it, not when it's only retrieving the message count.
It didn't do that with Beta4, it only started with RC1, so I guess
something went wrong with that.
Pa
Ron Hunter
let alone seen here. Just what IS the maximum message count? I see
some groups with 2,000,000 messages (not that I would ever try to
download them). I can't imagine someone having more than that. Perhaps
it is an effort to prevent messages being lost to server retention times??
Roy Smith
I think he's talking about the setting to ask if the new message count
exceeds a user defined value when downloading message headers.
Apparently when he clicks on a news account and it starts getting a new
message count for the subscribed newsgroups, TBird is applying that
setting for the new message count as well. At least that's my
interpretation of what was said... but then again I may be wrong.
--
Roy Smith
Windows XP Pro SP3
Patrick Dardar
> Exceeds the maximum message count? Not something I have ever heard of,
> let alone seen here. Just what IS the maximum message count? I see some
> groups with 2,000,000 messages (not that I would ever try to download
> them). I can't imagine someone having more than that. Perhaps it is an
> effort to prevent messages being lost to server retention times??
Sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant the maximum of new messages to load
for a newsgroup.
When I open the newsgroup server, it should only show the new
messages count (after the newsgroup name) and not try to load them.
It should only load them after I've clicked on a group.
Pa
clay
> On 11/25/2009 3:43 PM, clay wrote:
>> Ron Hunter wrote:
>>>
>>> Version for literates???
>>>
>>
>> A version that has the option to display text only, in place of icons.
>> You know, like 2.0.x and every version before it.
>> Far as I can see, there is no option in 3.x to remove(!!) or show only
>> text for the icons on the header pane.
>> Ever since I learned my words, I've found icons to be a waste of space.
>
> Huh? Customize. Click on 'show' dropdown, select 'text'. Done.
Doesn't apply to the icons in the header bar though...
> BTW, text takes up a lot more room than icons, so I use just the icons.
Horizontally yes, but that's irrelevant since I'm using less than half
the horizontal space.
Vertically, icons or text take the same space.
The whole header bar bloat thing is what's putting me off on 3.0. We
already have right click and key commands to do what the icons do, as
well as the toolbar icons so quadruple redundancy is a bit excessive.
Anyway, pretty pictures and flashy colors add nothing to the
functionality or performance of the application.
But as the old saying goes, "If it doesn't go, chrome it"
sean bean
Ron's point is valid... k2nnj's assault was not... very few folks use
full size computers anymore... laptops and netbooks are the future...
any developer who steals screenspace for new icons in headers should be
slapped silly...
sean
Ron Hunter
the SAME icons. Makes NO SENSE.
Ron Hunter
customize, but one has to point at one of the buttons IN THE HEADER
area, and then select 'customize'. The whole idea is completely beyond
my understanding....
Andrew DeFaria
Especially when there is a toolbar directly above the header area with the SAME icons. Makes NO SENSE.
Andrew DeFaria
I'm too shy to express my sexual needs except over the phone to people I don't know. - Garry Shandling