Is "data" a user-friendly word?
Chris Ilias
data across multiple computers", I'm still uneasy about the
user-friendliness. I think it's because of the word "data".
--
Chris Ilias <http://ilias.ca>
List-owner: support-firefox, support-thunderbird, test-multimedia
David Tenser
> When I look at article names, like "Importing data" and "Sharing your
> data across multiple computers", I'm still uneasy about the
> user-friendliness. I think it's because of the word "data".
How about "personal information"?
David
Majken Connor
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Jason Barnabe (np)
I'm fine with "data" as long as the article describes what data it is.
Chris Ilias
> that is problematic for people who don't know what sort of information
> is stored. They'll think it means names, addresses etc. It'd be nice to
> have some data on what users call that sort of thing. Stored info maybe?
>
>> Chris Ilias wrote:
>>> When I look at article names, like "Importing data" and "Sharing your
>>> data across multiple computers", I'm still uneasy about the
>>> user-friendliness. I think it's because of the word "data".
>>
>> How about "personal information"?
Do you think users will understand the term "user information"?
David Tenser
> On 9/5/07 6:01 PM, _Majken Connor_ spoke thusly:
>> that is problematic for people who don't know what sort of information
>> is stored. They'll think it means names, addresses etc. It'd be nice
>> to have some data on what users call that sort of thing. Stored info
>> maybe?
>>
>> On 9/5/07, *David Tenser* <djst.m...@gmail.com
>> <mailto:djst.m...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> Chris Ilias wrote:
>>>> When I look at article names, like "Importing data" and "Sharing your
>>>> data across multiple computers", I'm still uneasy about the
>>>> user-friendliness. I think it's because of the word "data".
>>>
>>> How about "personal information"?
>
>
> Do you think users will understand the term "user information"?
Why would you want to use "user information"? "Personal information"
sounds much friendlier, don't you think? The word "user" should probably
be avoided when possible.
I'd still vote for "personal information" over "data", but regardless of
the choice, we have to explain what it means in the article context.
David
Chris Hofmann
Sounds like we might be trying to deal with two problems. One is to design/use a term which users are familiar, and the second is to be as clear as possible.
I agree that "data" is not too friendly.
"Personal information" might be just as scary or concerning for a novice user and could open up a lot of questions and concerns.
. "...You have my personal information? what kind of info, SS number, credit card,...? where did you get it? what are you going to do with it?...
Google sync uses the term "browser components" to refer to these settings, but I don't think that a good term either.
I guess this really needs more context. If we could spell out more explicitly what we are talking about that might be one approach.
e.g.
"You can move your bookmarks, passwords, and cookies to another computer by...."
or if we really need to be concise and there is no widely used or common term for this maybe we need to explain with a reference.
"You can move your personal information[1] to another computer" ....
....
....
[1] personal information in this case means bookmarks, passwords, and cookies, start page setting, browser history.
-chofmann
David Tenser wrote:
Why would you want to use "user information"? "Personal information" sounds much friendlier, don't you think? The word "user" should probably be avoided when possible. I'd still vote for "personal information" over "data", but regardless of the choice, we have to explain what it means in the article context. David _______________________________________________ support-planning mailing list support-...@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-planning
Majken Connor
Sounds like we might be trying to deal with two problems. One is to design/use a term which users are familiar, and the second is to be as clear as possible.
I agree that "data" is not too friendly.
"Personal information" might be just as scary or concerning for a novice user and could open up a lot of questions and concerns.
. "...You have my personal information? what kind of info, SS number, credit card,...? where did you get it? what are you going to do with it?...
Google sync uses the term "browser components" to refer to these settings, but I don't think that a good term either.
I guess this really needs more context. If we could spell out more explicitly what we are talking about that might be one approach.
e.g.
"You can move your bookmarks, passwords, and cookies to another computer by...."
or if we really need to be concise and there is no widely used or common term for this maybe we need to explain with a reference.
"You can move your personal information[1] to another computer" ....
....
....
[1] personal information in this case means bookmarks, passwords, and cookies, start page setting, browser history.
-chofmann
David Tenser wrote:
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Chris Ilias
> Chris Ilias wrote:
>> On 9/5/07 6:01 PM, _Majken Connor_ spoke thusly:
>>> that is problematic for people who don't know what sort of
>>> information is stored. They'll think it means names, addresses etc.
>>> It'd be nice to have some data on what users call that sort of
>>> thing. Stored info maybe?
>>>
>>> On 9/5/07, *David Tenser* <djst.m...@gmail.com
>>> <mailto:djst.m...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>> Chris Ilias wrote:
>>>>> When I look at article names, like "Importing data" and "Sharing your
>>>>> data across multiple computers", I'm still uneasy about the
>>>>> user-friendliness. I think it's because of the word "data".
>>>>
>>>> How about "personal information"?
>>
>>
>> Do you think users will understand the term "user information"?
>
> Why would you want to use "user information"? "Personal information"
> sounds much friendlier, don't you think? The word "user" should probably
> be avoided when possible.
I agree that "user" is a bad word; I also agree with Lucy, when she says
that "personal information" gives a scary impression. In this case, I
figure, if Windows has "user accounts", it might be okay.
David Tenser
Data"). So when thinking about it, we should definitely use the same
term as the UI to be consistent.
But, we should definitely explain the term in the article, and I think
it's best to explain it at the beginning of an article instead of using
references, e.g.
"Firefox stores your private data, such as your bookmarks, passwords,
and cookies, in a specific folder on your computer. If you are switching
from an old computer to a new one, this private data can easily be
transferred by following these instructions..."
David
Chris Hofmann
Firefox actually uses "Private Data" in the UI (see "Clear Private Data"). So when thinking about it, we should definitely use the same term as the UI to be consistent.
But, we should definitely explain the term in the article, and I think it's best to explain it at the beginning of an article instead of using references, e.g. "Firefox stores your private data, such as your bookmarks, passwords, and cookies, in a specific folder on your computer. If you are switching from an old computer to a new one, this private data can easily be transferred by following these instructions..."
browsing history
download history
saved forms and search history
cache
cookies
passwords
athenticated sessions.
If the article in question talks about additional things such as bookmarks, home page settings and other stuff "private data" shouldn't be used since that might cause additional confusion about what actuall gets cleared with "clear all private data"
-chofmann
David Tenser
Right. I didn't think about the bookmarks, so maybe we're not obligated
to use "private data" as the term. Again, I think "personal information"
is best. It's most commonly used and it doesn't sound scary (privacy) if
explained at the beginning of the article.
David
David Tenser
I think as long as we explain the term, we should be ok with the word
"personal". Personally, I think it's good (but perhaps I'm getting too
personal).
(I'm still in the running towards having the worst sense of humor
@mozilla. JT, you're on!)
Chris Ilias
I wonder if we even need to specify it, in article title. The importing
data article basically covers File-->Import; so I don't think there
would be much confusion, if the article was simply named "Importing".
The other article is sharing data; so "Sharing personal information" can
easily be mistaken for a security-focused article (even if we specify
what info in the article). Look at the article[1], it mainly points to
portable Fx and Google browser sync, which each have their own wording:
"...so you can take your bookmarks, extensions and saved passwords with
you."
"...leaves no personal information behind on the machine you run it on,
so you can take your favorite browser along with all your favorite
bookmarks and extensions with you..."
"...continuously synchronizes your browser settings – including
bookmarks, history, persistent cookies, and saved passwords"
"on all computers for which you'd like your browser settings
automatically kept in sync."
[1]<http://support-stage.mozilla.org/tiki-index.php?page=Sharing+your+data+across+multiple+computers>
David McRitchie
"Personal settings", extensions, and bookmarks
Majken Connor
"browser personalizations" means exactly what we mean, but is a bit long to be a good "buzz" term. Maybe someone on planet should blog and see what users would call it all under one term?
Majken Connor
People understand settings/preferences. Many do think we include bookmarks and extensions when using the word "settings" not sure if enough people would, but if they do "Personal Settings" is much better than "Personal Information."
"browser personalizations" means exactly what we mean, but is a bit long to be a good "buzz" term. Maybe someone on planet should blog and see what users would call it all under one term?
On 9/6/07, David McRitchie <dmcri...@hotmail.com > wrote:
David Tenser
> People understand settings/preferences.
Saying people put an equal sign between "settings" and "bookmarks" is a
generalization which may not be true.
I think we're overdiscussing this. The important thing here is that we
explain what we mean - regardless of buzz term. I'm fine with "personal
information", "private data", or even "personal data". But "settings" is
just settings, not bookmarks, passwords, etc.
My recommendation is to use "personal information" if the term is used
more than once in an article, and that the term is fully explained when
first used.
Can we agree on that?
David
Majken Connor
People don't do the best job of reading things through, and I think it's very likely that some people will see the term and freak out, not read the article. Grandma for instance, would call whoever installed Firefox on her machine.
> People understand settings/preferences.
I wasn't saying they put an equals sign. I was saying they know what we mean when we say those words. From my experience giving support, it's not uncommon that users will ask if resetting their preferences will also reset their bookmarks. Or if I tell them that uninstalling and reinstalling won't touch the profile, they'll ask me if their "settings like bookmarks" will be ok.
Chris Ilias
> When I look at article names, like "Importing data" and "Sharing your
> data across multiple computers", I'm still uneasy about the
> user-friendliness. I think it's because of the word "data".
Some of you may have read a post on my my blog about this, yesterday,
including a poll. There was a lot of good feedback, in particular about
the term "sharing". Alex Faaborg made a suggestion of "Using Firefox on
more than one computer"; and eventually someone added "Using your
Firefox profile on multiple computers", which I like.
In the poll, "Sharing your bookmarks and other settings..." seems to be
clear favourite.
Putting the two together:
"Using your bookmarks and other settings on multiple computers"
Seems a little long to me. :-\
Chris Ilias
> On 9/5/07 2:09 PM, _Chris Ilias_ spoke thusly:
>> When I look at article names, like "Importing data" and "Sharing your
>> data across multiple computers", I'm still uneasy about the
>> user-friendliness. I think it's because of the word "data".
>
> Some of you may have read a post on my my blog about this, yesterday,
> including a poll. There was a lot of good feedback, in particular about
> the term "sharing". Alex Faaborg made a suggestion of "Using Firefox on
> more than one computer"; and eventually someone added "Using your
> Firefox profile on multiple computers", which I like.
>
> In the poll, "Sharing your bookmarks and other settings..." seems to be
> clear favourite.
>
> Putting the two together:
> "Using your bookmarks and other settings on multiple computers"
>
> Seems a little long to me. :-\
I should have included the URI of the blog post:
http://ilias.ca/blog/2007/09/user-friendly-terminology/
Jason Barnabe (np)
> On 9/5/07 2:09 PM, _Chris Ilias_ spoke thusly:
>
> > When I look at article names, like "Importing data" and "Sharing your
> > data across multiple computers", I'm still uneasy about the
> > user-friendliness. I think it's because of the word "data".
>
> Some of you may have read a post on my my blog about this, yesterday,
> including a poll. There was a lot of good feedback, in particular about
> the term "sharing". Alex Faaborg made a suggestion of "Using Firefox on
> more than one computer"; and eventually someone added "Using your
> Firefox profile on multiple computers", which I like.
Not everyone's going to understand "profile".
> In the poll, "Sharing your bookmarks and other settings..." seems to be
> clear favourite.
>
> Putting the two together:
> "Using your bookmarks and other settings on multiple computers"
"Using" has a different mean than "sharing". "Using" could mean
importing rather than having some sort of automatic synchronization
thingy.
Majken Connor
Chris Ilias
> data across multiple computers", I'm still uneasy about the
> user-friendliness. I think it's because of the word "data".
Okay, unless anyone has major objections, the article titles will be:
- Importing
- Using the same Firefox profile on multiple computers
I'd like to split importing into separate articles per product
(Importing from Internet Explorer, Importing from Opera, etc.), and
we'll of course, explain what a Firefox profile is in the second article.
David Tenser
> On 9/5/07 2:09 PM, _Chris Ilias_ spoke thusly:
>> When I look at article names, like "Importing data" and "Sharing your
>> data across multiple computers", I'm still uneasy about the
>> user-friendliness. I think it's because of the word "data".
>
> Okay, unless anyone has major objections, the article titles will be:
> - Importing
> - Using the same Firefox profile on multiple computers
Why do you want to introduce the technical term "profile" in the article
name? Did you even read my proposed resolution to this thread?
---
"I think we're overdiscussing this. The important thing here is that we
explain what we mean - regardless of buzz term. I'm fine with "personal
information", "private data", or even "personal data". But "settings" is
just settings, not bookmarks, passwords, etc.
My recommendation is to use "personal information" if the term is used
more than once in an article, and that the term is fully explained when
first used.
Can we agree on that?"
---
Your proposed article title means absolutely nothing to someone not
familiar with the term "profile". A more descriptive title would be
e.g.: "Sharing your bookmarks, settings, and other data across several
computers". This would actually mean something even for people who think
a profile is the outline or contour of the human face.
>
>
> I'd like to split importing into separate articles per product
> (Importing from Internet Explorer, Importing from Opera, etc.), and
> we'll of course, explain what a Firefox profile is in the second article.
That sounds good.
David
Majken Connor
I understand most novices don't know what a profile is, but by the same token, they also don't realize you can use the same info across multiple computers. So people are coming to this article one of two ways:
1. They're already familiar with the concept of a profile enough to recognize "Using the same Firefox profile on multiple computers" is what they're looking for, especially if it turned up in search results.
2. They're browsing articles to see if there are any things they want to try. In this case I think the "Using the same Firefox x on multiple computers" will be enough to get them reading the article to see what can be shared across multiple computers.
If they are coming via 2, it's entirely possible they've already read articles that explain what the profile is. I think if we're worried about the term not being recognized we should make sure that we use it in every article that is about something to do with the profile.
David Tenser
> The way tiki displays search results it shows a bit of the beginning of
> the article. We should make sure the first sentence of the article is
> something like "This article explains how to share your bookmarks,
> settings, and other data across several computers."
>
> I understand most novices don't know what a profile is,
...which is a good enough reason not to use it in the title, really.
What are the _benefits_ of introducing a confusing term already in the
article title? Saving a few characters on title length?
> If they are coming via 2, it's entirely possible they've already read
> articles that explain what the profile is. I think if we're worried
> about the term not being recognized we should make sure that we use it
> in every article that is about something to do with the profile.
It's _possible_ that they've read articles that explain what the profile
is. And that's why we should use it in the article title...?
We want to target our whole user base with this site. It doesn't matter
how many times they may have seen the word "profile" appear in search
results. It doesn't make the article title any bit more descriptive to
most visitors of the site. By all means, tag the article with "profile",
but don't use it in the title.
This issue doesn't really deserve this overwhelming attention. I'm a bit
amused by the fact that it has already resulted in two independent blog
posts and a poll. Maybe it's a sign that we don't have big problems so
far. :) But please, can we move on?
David
Chris Ilias
> Chris Ilias wrote:
>> Okay, unless anyone has major objections, the article titles will be:
>> - Importing
>> - Using the same Firefox profile on multiple computers
>
> Why do you want to introduce the technical term "profile" in the article
> name? Did you even read my proposed resolution to this thread?
>
> ---
> "I think we're overdiscussing this. The important thing here is that we
> explain what we mean - regardless of buzz term. I'm fine with "personal
> information", "private data", or even "personal data". But "settings" is
> just settings, not bookmarks, passwords, etc.
>
> My recommendation is to use "personal information" if the term is used
> more than once in an article, and that the term is fully explained when
> first used.
>
> Can we agree on that?"
> ---
>
> Your proposed article title means absolutely nothing to someone not
> familiar with the term "profile". A more descriptive title would be
> e.g.: "Sharing your bookmarks, settings, and other data across several
> computers". This would actually mean something even for people who think
> a profile is the outline or contour of the human face.
Yes, I read your post, when you originally posted it, smartypants. :-)
Right now, out of 146 votes, "Sharing your personal information..." has
5 (3% of all votes).
I wasn't satisfied with either of the original terms proposed in this
thread, but I'm satisfied with either "Using the same Firefox profile on
multiple computers" or "Using the same bookmarks and other settings on
multiple computers".
So now we're down to minor differences. I think that even though
"profile" is not a term users may already be familiar with, it's pretty
hard to misinterpret it. If they search for "bookmarks, settings...",
"Using the same Firefox profile..." will show up in the search results,
and I don't think the user will interpret it as something else. The only
issue with the other one was length.
But, like I said, at this point, I'm fine with either title. If you're
adamant that we use "Using the same bookmarks and other settings on
multiple computers", I'm fine with changing the title to that. :-)
David Tenser
> On 9/10/07 4:06 PM, _David Tenser_ spoke thusly:
>> Chris Ilias wrote:
>>> Okay, unless anyone has major objections, the article titles will be:
>>> - Importing
>>> - Using the same Firefox profile on multiple computers
>>
>> Why do you want to introduce the technical term "profile" in the
>> article name? Did you even read my proposed resolution to this thread?
>>
>> ---
>> "I think we're overdiscussing this. The important thing here is that
>> we explain what we mean - regardless of buzz term. I'm fine with
>> "personal information", "private data", or even "personal data". But
>> "settings" is just settings, not bookmarks, passwords, etc.
>>
>> My recommendation is to use "personal information" if the term is used
>> more than once in an article, and that the term is fully explained
>> when first used.
>>
>> Can we agree on that?"
>> ---
>>
>> Your proposed article title means absolutely nothing to someone not
>> familiar with the term "profile". A more descriptive title would be
>> e.g.: "Sharing your bookmarks, settings, and other data across several
>> computers". This would actually mean something even for people who
>> think a profile is the outline or contour of the human face.
>
> Yes, I read your post, when you originally posted it, smartypants. :-)
Ok, sorry. You didn't respond to the post before concluding this thread,
so I had to ask.
> Right now, out of 146 votes, "Sharing your personal information..." has
> 5 (3% of all votes).
I seem to have drifted from the original purpose of this thread, because
I was actually talking about what term to use _inside_ the actual
articles that captures "bookmarks, passwords, cookies, and other
settings", and I was (and still am) against using "settings", since
that's very limiting. Other than that, I don't really care what we call
it as long as we are clear about what it means in the beginning of the
article. And if "profile" is a convenient term to use because of the
rest of the instructions in the article, let's use that.
However, you were talking about the title of the articles, and this is
where I'm strongly opinioned. Article titles should always be as
descriptive as possible to increase the likeliness of someone clicking
on the right article on the first search.
>
> I wasn't satisfied with either of the original terms proposed in this
> thread, but I'm satisfied with either "Using the same Firefox profile on
> multiple computers" or "Using the same bookmarks and other settings on
> multiple computers".
In that case the second alternative is much better, because it actually
means something to _everyone_, rather than just the people familiar with
the term "profile".
>
> So now we're down to minor differences. I think that even though
> "profile" is not a term users may already be familiar with, it's pretty
> hard to misinterpret it. If they search for "bookmarks, settings...",
> "Using the same Firefox profile..." will show up in the search results,
> and I don't think the user will interpret it as something else. The only
> issue with the other one was length.
>
> But, like I said, at this point, I'm fine with either title. If you're
> adamant that we use "Using the same bookmarks and other settings on
> multiple computers", I'm fine with changing the title to that. :-)
I'm not being adamant, but I would really hope everyone understands
_why_ using a descriptive title is better than using technical terms,
whenever possible. It increases the likeliness of our users finding the
information they are looking for, which in turn reduces bandwidth and
server load, all of which results in happier users and a more successful
SUMO. It's not sufficient that the right article appears on top of the
search results if the reader doesn't understand what the article is about.
To recap:
1. In the articles, I'm totally fine with using "profile", "personal
information", or "personal data" as the single term for "bookmarks,
passwords, cookies, and other settings", as long as it is properly
explained in the beginning of the article.
2. The article title, however, should be as descriptive as possible and
should avoid technical terms whenever possible.
Lastly, thanks for forcing me to learn a new word. :)
David
Majken Connor
You have valid points about people needing to know what they're clicking on. IMO I think the solution isn't to come up with a better term, but to get people familiar with what we mean by profile. Pretty much every product has to do this at some point or another. We're about to do it with Places. The way these new terms are handled are usually to put them everywhere so that the user picks up what they mean through context.
Here are the search results for a search on "profile" http://support-stage.mozilla.org/tiki-searchresults.php?q=profile&sa=
I think we should be much less concerned with the nitty gritty of the article title, and be focused on making sure those first sentences that show up under it are explanatory of the article's contents. Look at "Troubleshooting performance issues on Mac" as an example. Or "Command line arguments." I think that's where we need to be as descriptive as possible.
-Majken