Why can I watch CNN videos, but not BBC?
Restorm
pages with embedded videos. I turned off Java Quick Start, and it seems
to have solved the freezing problem, but I still can't watch BBC videos
(such as http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/us_and_canada/10520809.stm).
CNN videos work fine. The weird thing is that when I first disabled the
Java Quick Start plug-in in FF, BBC videos worked. Then I disabled Java
Quick Start system-wide, and they stopped. I re-enable Quick Start
system-wide and disabled the FF Quick Start plub-in, and now they don't
work again. The video screen is active--showing the spinning icon that
shows it's trying to download content--but nothing ever shows up. I've
cleared my cache and I don't have Flashblock. What's going on here?
Beauregard T. Shagnasty
My recollection is that the BBC video is restricted to UK residents only
(by IP address). Yours indicates you are in the US. So, no BBC video for
you!
--
-bts
-Four wheels carry the body; two wheels move the soul
Traveller
Are you using NoScript? I had to allow bbcimg.co.uk to get the video to
play, but other than that I have no problems. (WinXP, FF 3.6.6, Quick
Start disabled on FF only.) I can't think of anything else that might be
causing you trouble.
Dave
s|b
> I originally had a problem whereby FF 3.6.6 froze when I encountered
> pages with embedded videos. I turned off Java Quick Start, and it seems
> to have solved the freezing problem, but I still can't watch BBC videos
> (such as http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/us_and_canada/10520809.stm).
> CNN videos work fine.
I don't have Java Quick Start and the BBC-vids do fine over here (Fx
3.6.6) They're Flash, aren't they? No Java is needed.
Do you have the latest version of Flash (10.1.53.64) installed?
<http://www.adobe.com/software/flash/about/>
If not, uninstall the current version with this tool:
<http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/141/tn_14157.html>
Reboot and install the latest version.
--
s|b
Ron Hunter
Worth, Texas. Maybe the BBC doesn't know we are not in the UK. Grin.
Restorm
simple embedded video in their website, which have never been
restricted. I could watch them all the time before 3.6.4 and 3.6.6 were
inflicted on me.
Restorm
site isn't asking me for any permissions, and it seems to be making an
honest attempt to download, but nothing's coming through. The
notification in the lower left of the browser says it's downloading data
from BBC.
Restorm
Restorm
site, where it says "Video and Audio" and the video suddenly started
working! All that is is a link that takes you into a collection of
their videos, but just clicking it solved the problem. Curioser and
curioser.
Pete Holsberg
Try a new profile. That site plays fine here.
--
Pete Holsberg
Columbus, NJ
Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes.
hat way when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their
shoes.
- Frieda Norris
David Pyles
page Storm supplied works fine for me. Sometimes I have a problem with
BBC videos just not downloading which I can see by the lack of activity
in my network icon and in my router. Usually reloading the page gets it
going.
Dave Pyles
Restorm
the Video & Audio link that they suddenly started working. Weird.
Restorm
> On Tue, 06 Jul 2010 15:00:18 -0400, Restorm<st...@resolutionfund.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I've never heard of Noscript,
>
> NoScript as an excellent means of protection ...
> http://noscript.net/
> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/722/
> http://home.epix.net/~artnpeg/firefox.html
> ;-)
>
Thanks for plugging my gap, Fred. Looks useful, but my problem at hand
has to do with not running on legitimate sites, not with running on
illegitimate sites...
Phillip Jones
All I see is infinite load with nothing starting
--
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T. "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net mailto:pjo...@kimbanet.com
Sjouke Burry
No restriction.
Phillip Jones
this is all I see:
http://screencast.com/t/Yzk0ODc3
Restorm
Tarkus
> Restorm wrote:
>
>> > I originally had a problem whereby FF 3.6.6 froze when I encountered
>> > pages with embedded videos. I turned off Java Quick Start, and it seems
>> > to have solved the freezing problem, but I still can't watch BBC videos
>> > CNN videos work fine. The weird thing is that when I first disabled the
>> > Java Quick Start plug-in in FF, BBC videos worked. Then I disabled Java
>> > Quick Start system-wide, and they stopped. I re-enable Quick Start
>> > system-wide and disabled the FF Quick Start plub-in, and now they don't
>> > work again. The video screen is active--showing the spinning icon that
>> > shows it's trying to download content--but nothing ever shows up. I've
>> > cleared my cache and I don't have Flashblock. What's going on here?
> My recollection is that the BBC video is restricted to UK residents only
> (by IP address). Yours indicates you are in the US. So, no BBC video for
> you!
I live in the U.S. and was able to view the BBC video link he posted a
day or two ago.
Beauregard T. Shagnasty
> Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
>> Restorm wrote:
>>>> I originally had a problem whereby FF 3.6.6 froze when ...
>>
>> My recollection is that the BBC video is restricted to UK residents
>> only (by IP address). Yours indicates you are in the US. So, no BBC
>> video for you!
>
> I live in the U.S. and was able to view the BBC video link he posted
> a day or two ago.
What can I say?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7459669.stm
"Cannot play media. Sorry, this media is not available in your
territory." -- right under the block with that round red thing on it.
Some other videos there show a 'first slide' with a spinning loader
symbol, and don't do anything else.
Tarkus
> Tarkus wrote:
>
>> > Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
>>> >> Restorm wrote:
>>>>> >>>> I originally had a problem whereby FF 3.6.6 froze when ...
>>> >>
>>> >> My recollection is that the BBC video is restricted to UK residents
>>> >> only (by IP address). Yours indicates you are in the US. So, no BBC
>>> >> video for you!
>> >
>> > I live in the U.S. and was able to view the BBC video link he posted
>> > a day or two ago.
> What can I say?
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7459669.stm
> "Cannot play media. Sorry, this media is not available in your
> territory." -- right under the block with that round red thing on it.
That's their news channel. As someone else stated, that's different
from regular videos posted on their site, which have no such restriction.
> Some other videos there show a 'first slide' with a spinning loader
> symbol, and don't do anything else.
Works here - what can I say?
Beauregard T. Shagnasty
> Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
>> Tarkus wrote:
>>>> Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
>>>>>> Restorm wrote:
>>>>>>> I originally had a problem whereby FF 3.6.6 froze when ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My recollection is that the BBC video is restricted to UK
>>>>>> residents only (by IP address). Yours indicates you are in the
>>>>>> US. So, no BBC video for you!
>>>>
>>>> I live in the U.S. and was able to view the BBC video link he
>>>> posted a day or two ago.
>>
>> What can I say?
>>
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7459669.stm "Cannot play media.
>> Sorry, this media is not available in your territory." -- right
>> under the block with that round red thing on it.
>
> That's their news channel. As someone else stated, that's different
> from regular videos posted on their site, which have no such
> restriction.
The OP's link:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/us_and_canada/10520809.stm
is also "their news channel."
>> Some other videos there show a 'first slide' with a spinning loader
>> symbol, and don't do anything else.
>
> Works here - what can I say?
You're special, I suppose. Or maybe they don't like RoadRunner IP
addresses.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/help/7277283.stm#rights
"I'm outside the UK, why can't I access some clips?"
Tarkus
> Tarkus wrote:
>
>> > Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
>>> >> Tarkus wrote:
>>>>> >>>> Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
>>>>>>> >>>>>> Restorm wrote:
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> I originally had a problem whereby FF 3.6.6 froze when ...
>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>>> My recollection is that the BBC video is restricted to UK
>>>>>>> >>>>>> residents only (by IP address). Yours indicates you are in the
>>>>>>> >>>>>> US. So, no BBC video for you!
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>> I live in the U.S. and was able to view the BBC video link he
>>>>> >>>> posted a day or two ago.
>>> >>
>>> >> What can I say?
>>> >>
>>> >> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7459669.stm "Cannot play media.
>>> >> Sorry, this media is not available in your territory." -- right
>>> >> under the block with that round red thing on it.
>> >
>> > That's their news channel. As someone else stated, that's different
>> > from regular videos posted on their site, which have no such
>> > restriction.
> The OP's link:
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/us_and_canada/10520809.stm
> is also "their news channel."
His original BBC link was to a video, which wouldn't play for him, but
didn't give that message. I didn't try the latest link until you told
me about that message, just to see for myself.
Beauregard T. Shagnasty
> Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
>> Tarkus wrote:
>>> > Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
<some trimming is in order>
>>>> That's their news channel. As someone else stated, that's
>>>> different from regular videos posted on their site, which have no
>>>> such restriction.
>>
>> The OP's link:
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/us_and_canada/10520809.stm
>> is also "their news channel."
>
> His original BBC link was to a video, which wouldn't play for him,
> but didn't give that message. I didn't try the latest link until you
> told me about that message, just to see for myself.
Hmm? I copied (above) Restorm's link (the 10520809.stm page) directly
from his original post.
Message-ID: <QuSdnZVhg5mX7a7R...@mozilla.org>
..and it won't play for me.
Since you say it will play for you, we'll just have to stop trying to
figure it out...
Tarkus
The video I was thinking of was actually from another link (about the
kid coming home), but the one above also works for me:
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/3110/stokesricardofullerrebu.png
And I'm not saying we should try to stop figuring it out, just because
it works for me. I'm only saying that it suggests there's something
wrong besides 3.6.6 itself.
Tarkus
> Tarkus wrote:
>
>> > Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
>>> >> Tarkus wrote:
>>>>> >>>> Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
>>>>>>> >>>>>> Restorm wrote:
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> I originally had a problem whereby FF 3.6.6 froze when ...
>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>>> My recollection is that the BBC video is restricted to UK
>>>>>>> >>>>>> residents only (by IP address). Yours indicates you are in the
>>>>>>> >>>>>> US. So, no BBC video for you!
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>> I live in the U.S. and was able to view the BBC video link he
>>>>> >>>> posted a day or two ago.
>>> >>
>>> >> What can I say?
>>> >>
>>> >> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7459669.stm "Cannot play media.
>>> >> Sorry, this media is not available in your territory." -- right
>>> >> under the block with that round red thing on it.
>> >
>> > That's their news channel. As someone else stated, that's different
>> > from regular videos posted on their site, which have no such
>> > restriction.
> The OP's link:
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/us_and_canada/10520809.stm
> is also "their news channel."
Note that this link actually SAYS "BBC News Channel":
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7459669.stm
Note that the link also includes /uk_news/ while the other one contains
/world/us_and_canada/ instead.
Restorm
article, it goes into an endless download. If I click on the "Video and
Audio" folder, I can play any of the videos within that folder. But
(unlike what I thought yesterday) that doesn't fix the other videos: I
can only play those within the Video and Audio folder. I'd love to know
what's different about those videos, as it would likely point to the
problem.
Restorm
categorized where the content was from, not who could watch it.
Beauregard T. Shagnasty
That would have been my thought as well -- especially since the two
above links are the same (if it matters) up through:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/ ...
BTW, I get the same results in other browsers.
--
-bts
-The butler did it
Restorm
jetjock
Don't have any answers, just a couple of results. Videos work just fine
for me at /world/us site in FF 3.6.6 but are blocked on the uk_news site.
Beauregard T. Shagnasty
As I said before, I get either the warning that I'm not in their
territory, or the first frame of the video shows up with that little
spinning "loading" doodad but nothing ever happens after that. Yes, in
all my browsers ... Firefox, Opera, SeaMonkey (the ones I have on this
computer). So no, it just stalls; nothing is downloading evidenced by my
router and firewall.
Tarkus
> Restorm wrote:
>
>> > Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
>>> >> BTW, I get the same results in other browsers.
>>> >>
>> > Same results meaning endless downloads?
> As I said before, I get either the warning that I'm not in their
> territory, or the first frame of the video shows up with that little
> spinning "loading" doodad but nothing ever happens after that. Yes, in
> all my browsers ... Firefox, Opera, SeaMonkey (the ones I have on this
> computer). So no, it just stalls; nothing is downloading evidenced by my
> router and firewall.
If it happens to you on all browsers, that makes me think it could be an
ISP issue. Perhaps something in their DNS lookup.
Are you using a modified hosts file?
David Pyles
While it plays OK for me, it loads its static image then about s
second later begins downloading the video feed. All of the other videos
on the BBC news site load their static image then wait for a click on
the Play button to begin downloading the video.
Storm, can you play other BBC news vids OK?
Dave Pyles
Beauregard T. Shagnasty
> Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
>> Restorm wrote:
>>>> Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
>>>>>> BTW, I get the same results in other browsers.
>>>>>>
>>>> Same results meaning endless downloads?
>>
>> As I said before, I get either the warning that I'm not in their
>> territory, or the first frame of the video shows up with that little
>> spinning "loading" doodad but nothing ever happens after that. Yes,
>> in all my browsers ... Firefox, Opera, SeaMonkey (the ones I have on
>> this computer). So no, it just stalls; nothing is downloading
>> evidenced by my router and firewall.
>
> If it happens to you on all browsers, that makes me think it could be
> an ISP issue. Perhaps something in their DNS lookup.
I would seriously doubt that a DNS issue would permit me to see
everything else on a BBC page except a video that comes from the same
server.
Here is what I see on the OP's original link. Note the little white dots
on the red-hatted man's left arm. They are the spinning animated
"loading" doodad -- which sits there and spins as long as the page is
open, but with nothing happening.
http://tekrider.net/usenet/jamaica.jpg
> Are you using a modified hosts file?
Yes, but it is short and of my own authorship, and there is nothing in
it remotely connected to the BBC. But since you suggested it, I renamed
it and tried again -- same result.
Tarkus
> Tarkus wrote:
>
>> > Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
>>> >> Restorm wrote:
>>>>> >>>> Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
>>>>>>> >>>>>> BTW, I get the same results in other browsers.
>>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>> Same results meaning endless downloads?
>>> >>
>>> >> As I said before, I get either the warning that I'm not in their
>>> >> territory, or the first frame of the video shows up with that little
>>> >> spinning "loading" doodad but nothing ever happens after that. Yes,
>>> >> in all my browsers ... Firefox, Opera, SeaMonkey (the ones I have on
>>> >> this computer). So no, it just stalls; nothing is downloading
>>> >> evidenced by my router and firewall.
>> >
>> > If it happens to you on all browsers, that makes me think it could be
>> > an ISP issue. Perhaps something in their DNS lookup.
> I would seriously doubt that a DNS issue would permit me to see
> everything else on a BBC page except a video that comes from the same
> server.
It was a shot in the dark, but sometimes different parts of pages
(especially videos) come from different domains than the main domain.
Restorm
> Restorm wrote:
>
>> Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
>>> BTW, I get the same results in other browsers.
>>>
>> Same results meaning endless downloads?
>
> As I said before, I get either the warning that I'm not in their
> territory, or the first frame of the video shows up with that little
> spinning "loading" doodad but nothing ever happens after that. Yes, in
> all my browsers ... Firefox, Opera, SeaMonkey (the ones I have on this
> computer). So no, it just stalls; nothing is downloading evidenced by my
> router and firewall.
>
Restorm
articles. If I click on the link on the left side that says "Video and
Audio", I can play all of those videos fine.
Restorm
same "endless download" problem I am, but not all. So, I'm not sure if
it's a FF problem or a BBC problem. The good news is that the browser
isn't freezing any more when I hit these videos (now that I've
uninstalled Java Quick Start), so the major problem is solved.
Restorm
> Restorm has written on 7/6/2010 2:03 PM:
>> I originally had a problem whereby FF 3.6.6 froze when I encountered
>> pages with embedded videos. I turned off Java Quick Start, and it
>> seems to have solved the freezing problem, but I still can't watch BBC
>> videos (such as
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/us_and_canada/10520809.stm). CNN
>> videos work fine. The weird thing is that when I first disabled the
>> Java Quick Start plug-in in FF, BBC videos worked. Then I disabled
>> Java Quick Start system-wide, and they stopped. I re-enable Quick
>> Start system-wide and disabled the FF Quick Start plub-in, and now
>> they don't work again. The video screen is active--showing the
>> spinning icon that shows it's trying to download content--but nothing
>> ever shows up. I've cleared my cache and I don't have Flashblock.
>> What's going on here?
>
>
>
Thanks, Pete. Seems every time I turn around, I'm being told to create a
new profile, either in Thunderbird or Firefox. They sure seem to be
fragile.
Restorm
> On Tue, 06 Jul 2010 14:03:48 -0400, Restorm wrote:
>
>> I originally had a problem whereby FF 3.6.6 froze when I encountered
>> pages with embedded videos. I turned off Java Quick Start, and it seems
>> to have solved the freezing problem, but I still can't watch BBC videos
>> (such as http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/us_and_canada/10520809.stm).
>> CNN videos work fine.
>
> 3.6.6) They're Flash, aren't they? No Java is needed.
>
> Do you have the latest version of Flash (10.1.53.64) installed?
>
> <http://www.adobe.com/software/flash/about/>
>
> If not, uninstall the current version with this tool:
> <http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/141/tn_14157.html>
>
> Reboot and install the latest version.
>
Yep: we've been through that several times previously in this thread.
Pete Holsberg
I started with TB 1.0 and FF 1.0 and have used the same profiles ever
since. I use a number of add-ons, so I would say that the profiles are
quite robust! :-)
Telling someone to create a new profile is like telling them to reboot
their Windows computer. --it's what you do.
--
Pete Holsberg
Columbus, NJ
Senility Prayer
God grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway,
the good fortune to run into the ones that I do,
and the eyesight to tell the difference.
Tarkus
I've been using FF and TB for years, on several computers, and the only
time I ever created a new profile is when I did a clean install of
Windows 7, and that was only by choice. My profiles were so old, I
figured it would be a good time to start over, but there were no obvious
problems with my old profiles.
Robert M Jones
BBC videos have recently started requiring the setting of Flash LSOs. If
you have these blocked - no video. (eg: BetterPrivacy Firefox addon or
flashblock.bat or other way of preventing LSOs being set. All will break
BBC news videos and iPlayer)
Their explanation here. I have been in correspondence with them.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2010/06/lso_flash_cookies_and_media_pl.html
It's supposed to be temporary
--
Rev Robert M Jones, Wimborne Baptist Church, UK
http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/dataprofiling/
http://www.wimborne-baptist.org.uk
Free trial of Mailwasher Pro - effective email spam filter - (commission
goes to our partners in Bulgaria)
http://fta.firetrust.com/index.cgi?id=420
Peter Boulding
<robert53new...@NOSPAMyahoo.co.uk> wrote in
<v7mdnWSyo_fIyKXR...@mozilla.org>:
>BBC videos have recently started requiring the setting of Flash LSOs. If
>you have these blocked - no video. (eg: BetterPrivacy Firefox addon or
>flashblock.bat or other way of preventing LSOs being set. All will break
>BBC news videos and iPlayer)
>
>Their explanation here. I have been in correspondence with them.
>http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2010/06/lso_flash_cookies_and_media_pl.html
>
>It's supposed to be temporary
I have Better Privacy enabled in its default mode--in which it deletes all
LSOs when I close Firefox. This hasn't yet prevented me from watching BBC
video--whether presented via http://news.bbc.co.uk or via
www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/. (I'm in the UK, mind you.)
--
Regards, Peter Boulding
pjbn...@UNSPAMpboulding.co.uk (to e-mail, remove "UNSPAM")
Fractal Music and Images: http://www.pboulding.co.uk/ and
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=794240&content=music
Neil
>
> Their explanation here. I have been in correspondence with
> them.
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2010/06/lso_flash_cookies_and_media_pl.html
>
>
> It's supposed to be temporary
>
Thanks for passing this information on. I changed my Flash
settings to allow third-parties to store data, and BBC
videos are working.
louise
> I originally had a problem whereby FF 3.6.6 froze when I encountered
> pages with embedded videos. I turned off Java Quick Start, and it seems
> to have solved the freezing problem, but I still can't watch BBC videos
> (such as http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/us_and_canada/10520809.stm).
> CNN videos work fine. The weird thing is that when I first disabled the
> Java Quick Start plug-in in FF, BBC videos worked. Then I disabled Java
> Quick Start system-wide, and they stopped. I re-enable Quick Start
> system-wide and disabled the FF Quick Start plub-in, and now they don't
> work again. The video screen is active--showing the spinning icon that
> shows it's trying to download content--but nothing ever shows up. I've
> cleared my cache and I don't have Flashblock. What's going on here?
Louise
Robert M Jones
The flashblock.bat I mentioned is different to the FF addon. It prevents
the setting of LSO's whereas "flashblock" addon merely prevents flash
videos running without active consent.
So flashblock.bat does break BBC videos. But flashblock addon merely
requires you to give active consent.
Restorm
Wall Street Journal this morning. It only happens once or twice a day,
so I'm hoping I can live with it until a more stable version is released.
Restorm
> pages with embedded videos. I turned off Java Quick Start, and it seems
> to have solved the freezing problem, but I still can't watch BBC videos
> (such as http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/us_and_canada/10520809.stm).
> CNN videos work fine. The weird thing is that when I first disabled the
> Java Quick Start plug-in in FF, BBC videos worked. Then I disabled Java
> Quick Start system-wide, and they stopped. I re-enable Quick Start
> system-wide and disabled the FF Quick Start plub-in, and now they don't
> work again. The video screen is active--showing the spinning icon that
> shows it's trying to download content--but nothing ever shows up. I've
> cleared my cache and I don't have Flashblock. What's going on here?
recommended: created a new profile. Other than the passwords not seeming
to have transferred properly (I thought I copied and pasted all the
password-related files from the old profile), the new profile is running
fine. EXCEPT that it didn't fix the freezing problem! FF still freezes
several times a day, usually on a site with video or flash. Sometimes it
will freeze again when I return to that site, but often it will work the
second time, such as just now when I returned to YouTube after a freeze.
If anyone has any ideas that weren't already suggested in this thread,
I'd sure like to hear them. Thanks.
David McRitchie
Help > Check for Updates
will probably update now to 3.6.7 (did for me) though they are probably
just security updates, but a lot of people have been complaining Flash video.
Might be a possibility something got changed for none security problems.
Be nice to know if someone's problems got solved.
Alan Baxter
>Help > Check for Updates
>will probably update now to 3.6.7 (did for me) though they are probably
>just security updates, but a lot of people have been complaining Flash video.
>Might be a possibility something got changed for none security problems.
>Be nice to know if someone's problems got solved.
From the Fx 3.6.7 release notes:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=ALL%20status1.9.2%3A.7-fixed,.5-fixed
I count something like 126 separate changes, most of them bug fixes.
You should definitely update.
--
"Trim your follow-ups."
http://www.mozilla.org/community/etiquette.html