3.5 is great except...
structrect
scroll unnecessarily as compared to a browser such as Opera or even IE.
I'd consider moving across to FF "permanently" if this issue was
resolved since my main browser (Opera) is a pain to find passwords even
though it has great features that outstrip FF's usefulness in some if
not all areas.
Thank you
David McRitchie
> When navigating sites such as Ebay it would seem (true) that you need to
> scroll unnecessarily as compared to a browser such as Opera or even IE.
Can you elaborate, because I don't understand what the difference is between
FF and Opera for scrolling with mouse wheel, nor do I understand how some-
thing takes extra scrolling.
Keyboard shortcuts: PageUp, PageDn, SpaceBar, Home, End
http://www.mvps.org/dmcritchie/firefox/keyboard.htm
If you have trouble with those keyboard shortcuts in FF hit F7
If the dialog comes up Reply "No" to dialog concerning turning caret browsing on.
http://www.mvps.org/dmcritchie/firefox/firefox.htm#caret
Please read the above topic (item) on "caret browsing"
--
HTH,
David McRitchie, extensions I use are briefly documented on my site
Firefox Custom: http://www.mvps.org/dmcritchie/firefox/firefox.htm
David McRitchie
Another thought are you trying to click outside the scroller but within the
scrollbar-- the default for that is to scroll up or down one page.
With the default setting you can still use Shift key to get the non default
of moving to the area of the page where the scroller would need to be.
To change the setting see http://kb.mozillazine.org/Ui.scrollToClick
but the documentation does not match what I have, since mine
has value 0 and is the default..
I see you are on Windows (Mac may be different), and Opera does
same in this regard as my Firefox.
BTW, you now have different answers, so if you received a specific solution
that does what you want, please indicate what your specific solution is, and
that would also help us/me to understand what your original problem is..
structrect
same thing, ie scrolling in FireFox as it does in Opera which makes it
bad to use open source software in this instance.
Bobs
the mouse wheel setting in control panel?
David McRitchie
Took awhile to get the word wheel out of this, but anyway
that's what I was thinking but my IntelliMouse does not have
settings for distance, and for specific applications is limited to the buttons.
Anyway working on my other reply, more in there later.
David McRitchie
> same thing, ie scrolling in FireFox as it does in Opera which makes it
> bad to use open source software in this instance.
Open source has nothing to do with how a browser works, anyway...
Okay, got it, scrolling with the mouse is skipping lines, and I knew something
was wrong, I was blaming it on the notchiness of my mouse, but it does the
same thing in Firefox 2 as it does in Firefox 3. It takes 18 notches to make
one revolution so talking about revolutions seemed a bit weird.
Bring up this file, or the second file and use the link at the bottom
http://www.mvps.org/dmcritchie/firefox/tab_capacity/001_with_underscore.htm
http://www.mvps.org/dmcritchie/firefox/tab_capacity/001.htm
the entire thing is for testing of tabs, and extensions like "Linky", but the
first one has line numbers at the right side that you can see how the scrolling
goes. So I take it the problem is to get to a point rather than reading through
continuously. (BTW for those not seeing beginning this is all Windows)
Firefox 1-29 in view, then 38-67, then 76-105 (so you don't see ...
Opera 1-26 in view, then 76-102, then 152-178 everything)
Guess I should have put a new version of shortcuts table on my site, it's not
going to happen today, and I still have some more changes to make.
http://www.mvps.org/dmcritchie/firefox/keyboard.htm
You have these shortcut keys to get you from one screen to the next for
continuous reading. I didn't realize scrolling with mouse was not contiguous.
The shortcuts are the same in Firefox and Opera except for one.
Home -- to top of page
Page Up or Shift+SpaceBar
Page Down or SpaceBar
End -- to bottom of page
Scroll line by line -- arrow key, or Alt+scroll
Mouse Scrolling (within Body or Scrollbar) -- Firefox
Scroll Line by Line Alt+Scroll
Back/Forward within TAB Shift+scroll
This is all within the scroll bar...
One screen up/down Click+ above/below scroller
Goto position up/down Shift+click at position (N/A in Opera)
Scroll to position Ctrl+click at position (Shift/Ctrl/Alt+click also same in Opera)
Scroll to position Alt+click at position
Shift+Arrow key is the fastest way to navigate up/down in Opera, that key combination
does nothing in Firefox; however, [Shift+]SpaceBar (typomatic) does same in Firefox or Opera..
So I don't really see much difference between Firefox and Opera, except
that Opera skips over more line scrolling with wheel.
G. R. Woodring
> David McRitchie wrote:
>> "structrect" wrote ...
>>> When navigating sites such as Ebay it would seem (true) that you need
>>> to scroll unnecessarily as compared to a browser such as Opera or
>>> even IE.
>>>
<Snipped>
>>
>> BTW, you now have different answers, so if you received a specific
>> solution
>> that does what you want, please indicate what your specific solution
>> is, and
>> that would also help us/me to understand what your original problem is..
> My experience is simply, that it takes more revolutions to achieve the
> same thing, ie scrolling in FireFox as it does in Opera which makes it
> bad to use open source software in this instance.
You can change the settings in Firefox to whatever scroll wheel speed you want.
Enter about:config in the address bar. In the filter at the top, enter
"mousewheel". You will see many options that you can adjust.
First, tell Firefox not to use the system setting:
mousewheel.withnokey.sysnumlines false
Next, set the number of lines (the default is 1):
mousewheel.withnokey.numlines 8
You can see the result by opening the link from David in the next tab and
checking after you make a change.
<http://www.mvps.org/dmcritchie/firefox/tab_capacity/001_with_underscore.htm>
Set the smooth scroll option for either smooth or notchy operation:
general.smoothScroll true
Also a checkbox at [Tools]>[Options]>[Advanced]>[General]
You can also choose to implement the accelerated scrolling to different degrees
with control, alt, and shift keys. Experiment till you like what you get.
--
G. R. Woodring
structrect
value is unacceptable for general use.
structrect
> On Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:01:00 +1000, structrect wrote:
>
>> When navigating sites such as Ebay it would seem (true) that you need to
>> scroll unnecessarily as compared to a browser such as Opera or even IE.
>
> and under "Browsing" try checking/unchecking "Use smooth scrolling" to
> see if it makes a difference for you. It's unchecked by default.
>
Thanks I did this (first) and then the other suggestions but it would
seem the rendering model used is below par, that is inferior to Opera.
I apologise if it upsets anyway (not really) but even in Thunderbird the
scrolling is cr@p and the display is all in huge blocks, not smooth at all.
I guess both TB and FF aren't really up to the task.
Ron Hunter
you computers mouse settings to your own liking. I have no such
problems with either FF, or TB, (or Opera, Safari, GoogleChrome, or IE8
either, for that matter).
If you like Opera better, then by all means USE IT. If you want to use
FF and TB, then learn to set your scrolling parameters in your OS properly.
David McRitchie
> Thanks I did this (first) [smooth scrolling] and then the other suggestions but it would
Since you've not been able to really explain the difference, kind of difficult.
But I really appreciate your asking the question, and I've learned a lot about
the problem, or at least enough to make scrolling work for me as I want it
which is with each wheel scrolling "click" (18 per revolution) that it advances one
page for me now, like it used to. Don't know how to make it work in IE
which takes 3 wheel scrolling "clicks" to get to the next page, or for Opera
which skips over material in either direction. If you can tell me how to make
Opera not do that, I would appreciate being able to fix it.
To get what I want in Firefox it is a simple change in about:config
mousewheel.withnokey.action user set integer 1
and like you, smooth scrolling made no difference in my test.
Worked fine in my tests at different sizes of fonts by zooming and
different window sizes and screen resolutions, and tested on a large
HTML table as well, all work well based on page scrolling.
One of my IntelliMouse is very noisy in it's click (notchy) when turning,
but I tried another which is perfectly smooth so I learned that the jumping
is not caused by precision settings within the mouse, but by quantum
jumps on a distance so it's not very critical measurements.
The documentation was not so good at MozillaZine but I think it's good now,
meaning no one else changed it again.
http://kb.mozillazine.org/About:config_entries#Mousewheel..2A
You can test on my webpage, to which I've added some comments
http://www.mvps.org/dmcritchie/firefox/tab_capacity/001_with_underscore.htm
If you have any further question on this that I can help you with , please
try to post soon because of the time difference.
If you want to know more about Firefox extensions see my page
http://www.mvps.org/dmcritchie/firefox/firefox.htm
I think you already know that the Firefox extensions usually surpass the
built-in Opera features. One very notable exception is the Firefox
Find continues to behave poorly compared to Opera in several
respects (I can always switch to Opera or any other browser
from Firefox with the the "Launchy" extension.
structrect
> "structrect" ...
>> Thanks I did this (first) [smooth scrolling] and then the other
>> suggestions but it would seem the rendering model used is below par,
>> that is inferior to Opera.
>
>
> To get what I want in Firefox it is a simple change in about:config
> mousewheel.withnokey.action user set integer 1
> and like you, smooth scrolling made no difference in my test.
> Worked fine in my tests at different sizes of fonts by zooming and
> different window sizes and screen resolutions, and tested on a large
> HTML table as well, all work well based on page scrolling.
> One of my IntelliMouse is very noisy in it's click (notchy) when turning,
> but I tried another which is perfectly smooth so I learned that the
> jumping is not caused by precision settings within the mouse, but by
> quantum
> jumps on a distance so it's not very critical measurements.
>
Well, the question must be asked why do I need to do this?
Anyway, I'm back on Opera now as it's much much smoother to use and I
don't get that blocky effect going on like with Firefox, which I also
don't get with IE and no modifications need to be made either in the OS
or in either program bar Mozilla.
Next time whoever it was stop trying to blame the user without first
asking appropriate questions such as hardware configuration etc., it
would seem this place is geared wholly towards the petty config in the
browser itself and no one dares venture any further without a fight.
Ron Hunter
I MIGHT buy your explanation were it not for the fact that I also use
the Intellimouse software, and have no problem with smoothly scrolling
things in all of the various browsers.
Opera (10) is a nice program, but your failure to manage to configure
your system/sofware doesn't make Opera superior.
structrect
Again you're not asking any relevant questions yet you fly off the
handle and blame the user. Talking about opera 10 is like referring to
3.5 when it was in beta both not in production both incomplete and both
unusable, as is 3.5 now because of its' poor rendering model.
David McRitchie
You said we didn't ask relevant questions but you don't answer any
questions or provide any information about what you expect to see
and what you see instead. That is information you should have
provided without even being asked.
The primary question that I have is does making the change in about:config
for mousewheel.withnokey.action user set integer 1
advance a full screen at a time with minor overlap. Everything else
I have for mousewheel.* is at the default.
I found that setting to work for me at any zoom setting, at two completely
different screen resolutions. Details being provided earlier and in the text in
http://www.mvps.org/dmcritchie/firefox/tab_capacity/001_with_underscore.htm
That setting overrides the Firefox default which takes information
directly from the system settings. System settings can be affected by user
mouse setting (in Windows through the Control Panel), by the mouse
driver, by the Operating System.
The only thing I have the most control over in Firefox is that value, as
what I want to happen is to get to the next screen with just a little
overlap, and not miss any data on the page. That's what I want to
happen, but you have never said what you see and what you want to
happen only that it is wrong in Firefox, only that it is right in Opera.
Both IE8 and Firefox versions broke for me at the same time, and I
don't think it was related in any way to the version of Firefox. IE
settings in Windows is pretty much the same as Windows itself.
Different people want different things, I want to go to the next screen
without much overlap. Some people may want to scroll 6 lines at a
time with the mouse (invoked 6-8 times for a full screen) and use the
PageUp/PageDn or equivalents (like SpaceBar) to get to the next screen.
Such settings would be dependent on fontsize.
I would love to know how to change things to work for both IE and
for Opera, maybe you could help with Opera. My system is described
at the top of http://www.mvps.org/dmcritchie/firefox/infolister_listing.htm
I'm actually using 1024x768 and 1280 x1024.
Ron Hunter
work properly, then I don't want to waste any more time with you.
Ron Hunter
'scroll', but what you describe is not, strictly speaking, scrolling,
but page up. There are settings for that for the Intellimouse software
for buttons, but I don't thing there are any for the wheel, which is
intended for SCROLLING, not page up/page down.
All of my scroll settings are for ONE line per wheel detent. There are
just too many other ways to do page advances.
structrect
The only interesting feature lately with mozilla is the stored passwords
thing.
Basically, mozilla products are intended for novice users that want to
get away from microsoft and will only ever work properly on unix based
systems which is what they are really designed for.
Unlike Opera there is no separate porting for the application is just a
rudimentary compilation of existing code.
g
> When navigating sites such as Ebay it would seem (true) that you need to
> scroll unnecessarily as compared to a browser such as Opera or even IE.
i started reading your thread and got to where you finally mention 'scroll'.
open 'about:config', enter 'scrollincrement' in filter and set to value
that gives you what you want.
hth.
--
peace out.
tc,hago.
g
.
****
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**
help microsoft stamp out piracy - give linux to a friend today.
**
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**
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structrect
> structrect wrote:
>> When navigating sites such as Ebay it would seem (true) that you need to
>> scroll unnecessarily as compared to a browser such as Opera or even IE.
>
> i started reading your thread and got to where you finally mention 'scroll'.
>
> open 'about:config', enter 'scrollincrement' in filter and set to value
> that gives you what you want.
>
> hth.
>
Of course I will look at it but does anyone seriously desire changing or
having to change all those kinds of settings?
It's quicker for me to come here and whine about what really should be
by default but again I will try when I ultimately have to otherwise I
will just stick to what works best out-of-the-box as it were.
g
> Of course I will look at it but does anyone seriously desire changing or
> having to change all those kinds of settings?
does one ever seriously think that all programs writers will write programs
so that all increment a mouse pointer the same?
> It's quicker for me to come here and whine about what really should be
> by default but again I will try when I ultimately have to otherwise I
> will just stick to what works best out-of-the-box as it were.
i guess it is easier to spend 5 days whining than 30 seconds making a change
to 'about:config'. :)
structrect
> structrect wrote:
>
>> Of course I will look at it but does anyone seriously desire changing or
>> having to change all those kinds of settings?
>
> does one ever seriously think that all programs writers will write programs
> so that all increment a mouse pointer the same?
>
>> It's quicker for me to come here and whine about what really should be
>> by default but again I will try when I ultimately have to otherwise I
>> will just stick to what works best out-of-the-box as it were.
>
> i guess it is easier to spend 5 days whining than 30 seconds making a change
> to 'about:config'. :)
>
No, it's quicker if the devs read this and implement a proper solution
in relation to ATI Hybrid graphics, the new desktop standard for
micro-computing.
Basically, people here weren't smart enough to ask the question and you
never get an answer before a question do you.
DUH!
David McRitchie
> Basically, people here weren't smart enough to ask the question and you
> never get an answer before a question do you.
>
> DUH!
Wrong! You were asked questions, and you refused to answer in any way.
The answer you finally accepted had already been provided by Woodring
much earlier and in greater detail, because it could require both variables
to be set , if one was not at the default.. It's up to you to ask a question
that states what you want, you never did, and you never answered questions
as to what you want, and you rejected or ignored the very answer you accepted later.
g
> No, it's quicker if the devs read this and implement a proper solution
> in relation to ATI Hybrid graphics, the new desktop standard for
> micro-computing.
it has nothing to do with 'ATI Hybrid graphics'.
it is not a matter of devs and a proper solution. they have already written
a solution by setting up configurations in 'about:config'.
it is obvious that you have never done any heavy programming because you
do not seem to understand that no programmer can write a program that will
satisfy everyone in every detail.
good programmers will write programs with ability for users to make changes
as mozilla programmers have done by setting up 'about:config' to let users
tweak program to their needs and desires.
> Basically, people here weren't smart enough to ask the question and you
> never get an answer before a question do you.
after sending my post to your thread, i did finish reading rest of post
to your thread and i did note that there where others that made mention
of other search terms to use for filter in 'about:config'.
only difference that i noted is that some used a different filter to list
group that would show what to tweak. some suggested wrong variable.
The Real Bev
> g wrote:
>> structrect wrote:
>>> When navigating sites such as Ebay it would seem (true) that you need to
>>> scroll unnecessarily as compared to a browser such as Opera or even IE.
>>
>> i started reading your thread and got to where you finally mention 'scroll'.
>>
>> open 'about:config', enter 'scrollincrement' in filter and set to value
>> that gives you what you want.
>
> Of course I will look at it but does anyone seriously desire changing or
> having to change all those kinds of settings?
I have been tweaking Netscape/Firefox/Thunderbird since 1994. ANIMALS accept
software the way it comes right out of the box :-)
> It's quicker for me to come here and whine about what really should be
> by default but again I will try when I ultimately have to otherwise I
> will just stick to what works best out-of-the-box as it were.
<sigh>
Actually, I understand. When we had to reinstall slackware on the laptop I
opted to use KDE with it for the same reason that I chose fvwm95 way back in
the dark ages -- it was the most completely pre-configured. Even so, I spent a
day on KDE to begin with and continue to tweak fvwm95.
Man's reach must exceed his grasp etc.
--
Cheers, Bev
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
When cryptography is outlawed, only outlaws will
qwertzuio asdfghjk pyxcvbnml -- M. O'Dorney
The Real Bev
> g wrote:
>> structrect wrote:
>>
>>> Of course I will look at it but does anyone seriously desire changing or
>>> having to change all those kinds of settings?
>>
>> does one ever seriously think that all programs writers will write programs
>> so that all increment a mouse pointer the same?
>>
>>> It's quicker for me to come here and whine about what really should be
>>> by default but again I will try when I ultimately have to otherwise I
>>> will just stick to what works best out-of-the-box as it were.
>>
>> i guess it is easier to spend 5 days whining than 30 seconds making a change
>> to 'about:config'. :)
It's that new "verbal control" thing. Way easier than actually pushing the
buttons yourself.
> No, it's quicker if the devs read this and implement a proper solution
> in relation to ATI Hybrid graphics, the new desktop standard for
> micro-computing.
Heh. I thought the company was close to whatever the Canadians call bankruptcy.
> Basically, people here weren't smart enough to ask the question and you
> never get an answer before a question do you.
Top posters usually do, but they're always on the bottom.