What would the selection UI look like for applying a persona with any theme
Dave Townsend
with the default theme. There were a few reasons for this including the
facts that we could guarantee a good experience and exposing the UI for
persona selection was greatly simplified.
A popular request has been that the user should be able to select both
any theme they like and combine it with any persona. I think it would
make for a very customisable experience however the question is how we
can represent this choice in a clear way to users. I'm going to list
some of the suggestions I have had so far. None appeal to me as the best
solution yet, but maybe with your suggestions of changes or even
completely new ideas I haven't come across yet we can come up with
something that works.
Perhaps the simplest suggestion is just to add another section to the
add-ons manager alongside Themes. Personally I don't like this option,
we already have too many categories in the add-ons manager and it is
hard for users to distinguish between all the different types. Having
two separate categories both of which change the appearance of your
browser seems like it would be confusing to me.
Something akin to a Dell PC configurator. You are designing your
appearance and get drop down lists or something to choose your theme and
persona. I only heard this one yesterday and it isn't fully formed in my
mind but I think it has promise, a difficulty though is that we still
need to have the common uninstall options etc. for the themes and
personas in the lists.
Only show personas in the context menu of the toolbars. Personas apply
there so there is a lot of sense that you right click there to choose
the backround image, same as you do for your desktop wallpaper. This has
some discoverability issues though I think.
Show themes in the list as normal but on the selected theme also include
a drop down list of personas. This feels a little weird to me since
you'll see them on every theme and it gives no room for removing personas.
Are there any better ideas or comments/alterations on the above?
Michael Kohler
> [...]
>
> Perhaps the simplest suggestion is just to add another section to the
> add-ons manager alongside Themes. Personally I don't like this option,
> we already have too many categories in the add-ons manager and it is
> hard for users to distinguish between all the different types. Having
> two separate categories both of which change the appearance of your
> browser seems like it would be confusing to me.
Right, that would really confuse the user. We need to make the UI as
easy as possible, otherwise user experience decreases enormously. I am
no UX-expert, so maybe somebody of the UX-team could second me here? ;)
> Something akin to a Dell PC configurator. You are designing your
> appearance and get drop down lists or something to choose your theme and
> persona. I only heard this one yesterday and it isn't fully formed in my
> mind but I think it has promise, a difficulty though is that we still
> need to have the common uninstall options etc. for the themes and
> personas in the lists.
If I get this right, it actually sounds confusing, too.
> Only show personas in the context menu of the toolbars. Personas apply
> there so there is a lot of sense that you right click there to choose
> the backround image, same as you do for your desktop wallpaper. This has
> some discoverability issues though I think.
This sounds like the best idea. My only concern about this is that users
possibly can't find this feature right away. Some users don't rightclick
on the toolbars, because they find it nice like it is by default and
don't need to customize the bars at all.
> [...]
Another idea just came to my mind (could be confusing too):
Just splitting the "Themes" section in two pieces. On the left side a
list of available themes and and the right side available Personas. The
user can chooce one of each section.
Advantages:
* No new tab in the Addons dialog
* clear seperation between themes and Personas
Possible weaknesses:
* The user needs to be told that he can choose one of each section.
* The Addons dialog is probably too small for such a split.
What do you think about that?
Boriss
crux of the problem is that if we don't make it clear that personas
and themes are different, the user will feel limited arbitrarily ("why
can I combine those but not these?"). So, a solution has to make it
clear that they are different beasts.
I think of it like a character's inventory in an RPG. If a game is
designed well, the user will understand you can only equip one helmet,
but you can duel-wield weapons. If your weapon requires two hands you
can only equip one, etc. Even a similar visual treatment to a game
could be used, with similar drag & drop mechanisms (I can hear Dave
groaning).
Where this really gets interesting is when themes require a restart
and personas do not. :)
Boriss
crux of the problem is that if we don't make it clear that personas
and themes are different, the user will feel limited arbitrarily ("why
can I combine those but not these?"). So, a solution has to make it
clear that they are different beasts.
I think of it like a character's inventory in an RPG. If a game is
designed well, the user will understand you can only equip one helmet,
but you can duel-wield weapons. If your weapon requires two hands you
can only equip one, etc. Even a similar visual treatment to a game
could be used, with similar drag & drop mechanisms (I can hear Dave
groaning). One ways is to have a "dummy browser" which the user can
add items. Such a screen could show when the user is at their quota
of one theme and one persona.
Boriss
and personas do not. :)
ThePirateKing
creating a totally separate "Themes" window? Or would that be too big
of a change?
In any case, I don't think we're going to figure out the best UI by
simply discussing it. The power of firefox is in its addons, in the
open source user group. So here's an idea. Let's create an addon
that allows you to combine themes and personas. There's no reason to
immediately put this function into standard firefox. Let's make the
UI for the addon intentionally awkward, in order to encourage users to
come up with better ideas.
If it's an addon, there will be no risk of new Firefox users being
confused, and we can get excellent feedback as to how this should be
set up. People will be able to combine themes and personas if they
want to, but new users won't be confused.
And once one of them comes up with a brilliant be-all end-all UI for
combined themes and personas, the addon can be implemented into
default firefox, similar to the way Personas have been. I think if
people actually test this function out and use it on a day to day
basis, they will come up with some great ideas as to what the UI
should look like. But just discussing it here will lead us nowhere; a
UI is something you LOOK at, and INTERACT with, so if we're going to
design one we need to know where to start.
hiryu
This sound like a good idea. It's similiar to what have been wroten
before on bugzilla - allow together use of 3rd party themes and
Personas as experimental and see how it end.
Current solution - where any choosen persona goes to themes is
confusing simply because themes aren't changed often while personas
can be changed everyday - so maybe Personas should be only visible by
clicking on the Personas-mask which is even marked for users on the
1st Firefox 3.6 start-up ?
Also adding to the Personas explanation that personas are simply
wallpapers for Firefox could lead to better understanding of how it's
really work as Wallpaper changes are known to almost every user in the
world. Yeah Personas name sounds cool but it's nowhere it real
function - change Firefox background image aKa wallpaper.
Also I think about expanding Personas - so any blank site (or google
search home) should be also using personas image - what do you think ?
It would look better than blank image.
Regards
Axel Grude
> For 3.6 we made the decision that we would only allow personas to work
> with the default theme. There were a few reasons for this including the
> facts that we could guarantee a good experience and exposing the UI for
> persona selection was greatly simplified.
>
> A popular request has been that the user should be able to select both
> any theme they like and combine it with any persona. I think it would
> make for a very customisable experience however the question is how we
> can represent this choice in a clear way to users. I'm going to list
> some of the suggestions I have had so far. None appeal to me as the best
> solution yet, but maybe with your suggestions of changes or even
> completely new ideas I haven't come across yet we can come up with
> something that works.
primitive backdrop, its not really a "skin" or "theme" as such. I have
stopped using it on Firefox for precisely that reason.
But I have to say its very nice on Thunderbird (with my Theme Mostly
Crystal). Of course, having something like a "Wallpaper" on my
Application does not help in the same way as the increased productivity
that a well written Theme can offer - therefore the choice is a no brainer.
>
> Perhaps the simplest suggestion is just to add another section to the
> add-ons manager alongside Themes. Personally I don't like this option,
> we already have too many categories in the add-ons manager and it is
> hard for users to distinguish between all the different types. Having
> two separate categories both of which change the appearance of your
> browser seems like it would be confusing to me.
Actually, its very simple: Personas is an Extension, not a Theme.
Problem solved. And, there is the little Fox icon in the Status bar, so
no need to bloat the Add-Ons Manager, anyway.
Axel
Aronnax
i would suggest:
Both inside the Theme selection, but with different columns.
When someone has only Peronas themes installed have we only one column.
The icon for the default theme is then not necessary and therefore not
visible.
When someone has only real themes installed have we as well only one
column and the third-party are among the default.
When someone has real themes and Personas themes have we then two
columns. The real themes (and the default) one the left and Personas on
the right.
--
The buttons for Use Theme and Uninstall could be remain as now - for both.
Which theme is selected must be more visible as now.
We need then a new Disable/Enable button for Personas. Could be on every
Personas or one button for all.
Cheers
Boriss
Boriss
Boriss
Boriss
Jennifer Boriss
Jennifer Boriss
Thanks for opening this to discussion Dave - it's a tough one! The
Dave Townsend
I'd just like to check I understand you correctly. Are you saying that
themes should be selected in the add-ons manager but the persona
selected from the status bar (like you get if you have the personas
extension installed)?
hiryu
I think it's exactly what he has been thinking and what I wrote few
posts earlier.
In short it's like - User chooses some 3rd party theme - applies it
and need to restart firefox.
After restart the 1st time info of Personas loads to inform user that
not only he can change the way icons and menus looks but also change
the backgroud of those icons ! Of course he not have to do it but have
the option.
But before this situation could happend we need to mark Themes
compatible with Personas.
I just got an idea - maybe themes which can work with Personas should
be also avaible on getpersonas.com as additional way of enhancing UI ?
They could be named "Persona ThemeS".
User entering that site would be asked is he wants to completelly
change how Firefox looks or just change background image.
btw adding Personas possibility to change also icons is bad idea imo -
changing wallpaper on desktop does not change icons and users are
accustomed to it.
Robert
> For 3.6 we made the decision that we would only allow personas to work
> with the default theme. There were a few reasons for this including the
> facts that we could guarantee a good experience and exposing the UI for
> persona selection was greatly simplified.
>
> A popular request has been that the user should be able to select both
> any theme they like and combine it with any persona. I think it would
> make for a very customisable experience however the question is how we
> can represent this choice in a clear way to users. I'm going to list
> some of the suggestions I have had so far. None appeal to me as the best
> solution yet, but maybe with your suggestions of changes or even
> completely new ideas I haven't come across yet we can come up with
> something that works.
>
I seem to have failed to make my post appear here,but I think the way
I replied to Dave Townsend was appropriate. My public-consumption
version is as follows:
First, the Themes should dominate the Personas. Currently, Personas
override Themes and install as the Current Theme. This has two
disadvantages. (a) It only works when the Theme is reverted to the
Firefox Default Theme, which disables all third-party Themes. Would it
be too difficult to allow Theme authors to opt=in or opt-out to coding
their Themes to accept Personas as a sort of background or wallpaper?
(b) If some third-party Themes are selected and then a Persona tries
to override them, some of us end-users have observed a
misconfiguration which renders the contents of the add-ons, options,
and other pop-up windows blank or empty. This is obviously not
desirable, and never happened when Themes were dominant and Personas
were subordinate.
Also, the current Personas installation scheme can really clutter up
the Themes list over time. Let's face it, most end-users are not very
good housekeepers (guilty as charged, myself).
I propose letting the Theme dominate, and restoring Personas to
subordinate status, if this can be implemented.
Personas should install a button on the Top Toolbar (the Menu Bar)
which when clicked would offer a drop-down menu with the Personas
options presented much as they now are. (There could also be an option
to add the Personas options to a sidebar or an existing menu bar drop-
down menu.) Getting the Personas options off the add-ons menu would
improve the end-user experience, and emphasize that Personas are not
in themselves, installed Themes. The bottom option is to go to The
Gallery and select any available Persona. If the current Theme does
not support Personas, the Personas options will be grayed-out. Very
clear and simple.
At the Gallery, hovering over the image of any Persona could offer a
preview, without actually committing to install the Persona. The "Wear
This" button cold then install the Persona and make it available for
off line use. This would be like downloading and installing other add-
ons, but would not be listed in the Themes list. Only recently used
Personas would be listed, and only in the Personas context menu, again
as it was in FF 3.5, but with the Personas button separated from the
add-ons menu.
If some or all of these fixes and features could be implemented in
time for Firefox 4.0, I would be very pleased. Thanks for opening this
discussion up to the Firefox user community.
Robert Kaiser
> Are there any better ideas or comments/alterations on the above?
What about a bar in the themes section that shows the selected theme and
persona and lets you chose a different one with a dropdown, but still
have the full list of installed themes and personas in the normal list
below, so you can display infos about them, or uninstall them.
Themes should IMHO be able to specify if they support personas or not -
for some themes it doesn't make sense, while for many it probably does.
Robert Kaiser
RyanVM
Cross-posting what I put in dev.apps.firefox:
Why not leverage the preview pane? If a persona is being used with a
theme, show something like "Enhanced by XXX" with the Persona graphic
along the top above the regular theme preview. I personally think it's
the only logical way to do it within the current EM UI. Trying to get
the point across with both being in the left pane will only end up
confusing people. Putting it in the right preview pane makes it more
clear that it's sitting on top of the current theme.
Alfred Kayser
now standard functionality of FF, just like for example the 'Download
manager'.
It is not too hard, just a few lines in global.css.
If a theme doesn't want to support Personas, because of its special
design, then one can easily override the Personas settings.
Back to the UI question:
In short, an user can select two things: a theme and a persona.
So two lists preferably in two separate tabs in addons manager: Themes
resp. Personas.
But if the current active theme doesn't support Personas, the personas
list should tell this that selecting a Personas will also switch to the
default theme (like currently in FF3.6)
Vice versa, in the Themes list, any theme not supporting Personas should
tell that selecting that theme, will disable Personas.
Greetings, Alfred
k m
default or a 3rd party theme) in a tree fashion, showing the user that
he has further available customizations to his themes.
If the user does not have any 3rd party themes, a subset under the
default theme option would be the logical solution.
Also changing the "theme" tab to "appearance" would solve the theme/
personas/extension problem. When installing the new twenty20 theme,
there was an accompanied extension of the same name installed in the
extension window without user input. When I uninstalled the theme some
of the customizations were still there, it was only after I
uninstalled the extension did the UI change to the vanilla version.
Many popular themes have an accompanied extension for further
customizations. Organizing them together in the appearance tab instead
of having one in the theme tab and one in the extension tab is not
logical and sometimes is unwieldy. The end user does not worry about
the technical differences between themes/extensions/personas.
Or maybe having a single line saying "You can customize the backdrop
of the theme using Personas" and then listing either the installed
personas or providing the getpersonas link would solve the confusion.