B2G and operating systems (was: Re: Booting to the Web)
Mike Shaver
On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 5:12 PM, ya knygar <kny...@gmail.com> wrote:
> https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/SHR_(operating_system)
On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 3:29 AM, Shmerl <shte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So why promoting their moves? Promote Wayland. Meego should be a
> better candidate for that.
On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 9:07 AM, ya knygar <kny...@gmail.com> wrote:
> if we'll ignore all the GNU-like mobile operation system initiatives
> we will lose more than drivers.
On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 9:24 AM, Natanael L <natan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ubuntu and Mozilla OS both use the Linux kernel and drivers for their
> hardware.
On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 9:26 AM, tuseroni <tuse...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://bellard.org/jslinux/
On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 7:15 AM, <d.hit...@tesco.net> wrote:
> I wonder if Symbian wouldn't be a better start point
There are certainly lots of operating systems out there that can
provide boot-and-kernel-and-libc support on various devices. How to
select an operating system on which to start our experimentation is
obviously something that has a lot of variables, and people will
(obviously!) have many personal opinions.
Our intention is not to ship Android, any more than Android ships
Linux. (Right now we don't even have a way to say what "ship" means
-- we're a project and not a product still, and a nascent one at
that.) Our plan of record is to start our experiments on Android for
a number of reasons -- they've been posted to the thread, but I'll
repeat them here:
* we have experience with the Android platform which will help getting started
* some pieces of it are open, and hopefully more will be later
* we have existing hardware deployed and managed for automation of
tests and builds
* it has good device support right now, and improving rapidly
* widely-available hardware that has features we want (VP8, f.e.)
There may be other operating systems that are equally appropriate, or
even more appropriate, in time. We *very much* welcome experiments on
them, and reports of experience gained. It's been most of a decade
since I last brought up an OS on new hardware
Abstract advocacy about operating system choices is not really very
helpful at this point, though. We have a lot of problem space ahead
of us to explore, and we've chosen to start on this path. Others are
welcome to do otherwise, and we hope to soon have code on github to
fork (we hope to soon have code that is). If you have an impassioned
argument about the architectural or moral superiority of an operating
system here, but no experiential results to share, it would be better
to sign up for a LiveJournal account instead, probably. :-)
Thanks to everyone for their interest and contributions, though -- it
is nice to have lots of conversation, even if we'll need to tune the
topics a bit as we go forward.
Mike
ya knygar
developers@limo foundation address,
there are topic with disappointment on MeeGo forum already -
http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=27319
But, i hope, there would be more positive and productive reply, also.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: ya knygar <kny...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 5:46 PM
Subject: Mozilla OS (was: Fwd: B2G and operating systems (was: Re:
Booting to the Web))
To: deve...@limofoundation.org
Cc: pespi...@gmail.com, kho...@defora.org, pen...@gmail.com, g...@openwrt.org
Hello!
Under the cut is a FW'ed message about possibility of using non-Android
OS's in a back-end of upcoming *Mozilla OS*
(http://wiki.mozilla.org/B2G - Boot 2 Gecko, actually)
Welcome to participate and describe - how Your project
could be used as a Web Apps platform with Mozilla's engines.
Currently - Android is an obvious choice
for B2G Mozilla team.
If You aren't directly interested - please help to spread the message
for possibly interested.
Thank You, in advance!
Mike
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Mike Shaver
> Thank you, i have posted the following to some developers and
> developers@limo foundation address,
> there are topic with disappointment on MeeGo forum already -
> http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=27319
I posted in that thread, also asking for help learning more about
Meego drivers and such.
> Welcome to participate and describe - how Your project
> could be used as a Web Apps platform with Mozilla's engines.
I hope that doesn't result in more abstract advocacy, but I guess we'll see.
Mike
Eric Dorman
Boot To Gecko needs to include strong security. I am making a doc that
outlines my security suggestions for the OS.
Vivek Khurana
[snip]
> * we have existing hardware deployed and managed for automation of
> tests and builds
> * it has good device support right now, and improving rapidly
> * widely-available hardware that has features we want (VP8, f.e.)
>
> There may be other operating systems that are equally appropriate, or
> even more appropriate, in time. We *very much* welcome experiments on
> them, and reports of experience gained. It's been most of a decade
> since I last brought up an OS on new hardware
>
Can we have a wiki page with specification for the hardware, to
experiment with other OS. If we can have minimum hardware
specification, I can write the qemu based emulator for the chosen
hardware specification. This will help in lot in experimenting with
other OS.
regards
Vivek
Robert Kaiser
> Can we have a wiki page with specification for the hardware, to
> experiment with other OS.
I doubt that, as basically what we need is *any hardware* and on top of
that *any kernel and libc* that allows to boot right into Gecko.
I'm not on the B2G team but that's what I read out of everything I've
read so far.
Our target is to get new web standards up to make secure real web apps
that can do anything you need on a device, but we don't care what device
it is. We just selected Tegras running Android as the base stack because
that's what Mozilla has available for testing right now.
Robert Kaiser
--
Note that any statements of mine - no matter how passionate - are never
meant to be offensive but very often as food for thought or possible
arguments that we as a community should think about. And most of the
time, I even appreciate irony and fun! :)
Mike Shaver
> Can we have a wiki page with specification for the hardware, to
> experiment with other OS. If we can have minimum hardware
> specification, I can write the qemu based emulator for the chosen
> hardware specification. This will help in lot in experimenting with
> other OS.
The hardware in question is currently some Tegra 2 boards (can't find
a link atm, but I'll ask around), and then I believe the Galaxy S2.
We need to play with ROMs a bit to make sure we can get the right
drivers in the right places, but cjones is already at work on that.
Mike
ya knygar
below is the message from the main xPUD developer,
as i understand - this project is very similar to B2G if consider that
Web Apps is for Cloud :)
As i see -
it's a very interesting project with a working releases, experienced developers,
and what is more important - experienced Android and MeeGo hackers.
so far - xPUD was mentioned in context of B2G - even more times than MeeGo,
i think - there could many topics for knowledge
exchange between B2G and xPUD developers.
As i understand xFUD doesn't brought the food on tables of it's developers,
so it was silently frozen - in favor of - http://meeto.us/
I hope - xFUD developers would participate in B2G discussion on
http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.dev.platform
or directly by mailing to dev-pl...@lists.mozilla.org with some
meaningful "Subject",
particularly - i think - it would be glad if xFUD developers could
share the summary and conclusion of their work on project.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: penk <pen...@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 7:42 AM
Subject: Re: Mozilla OS (was: Fwd: B2G and operating systems (was: Re:
Booting to the Web))
To: ya knygar <kny...@gmail.com>
Cc: deve...@limofoundation.org, pespi...@gmail.com,
kho...@defora.org, g...@openwrt.org
Hi all:
It's glad to see such move, I'm working on a project called xPUD (
http://xpud.org ) since 2006, it's a Firefox OS with app store. Here
you can find out more details in a presentation at COSCUP 2009:
http://www.slideshare.net/penk/xpud-shortest-path-to-the-cloud
Best,
penk
Robert Kaiser
> as i understand - this project is very similar to B2G if consider that
> Web Apps is for Cloud :)
Web Apps don't necessarily have to be cloud-based. Actually, I hope that
Mozilla will enable web apps through B2G efforts to be even better in
using decentralized and personal/local storages and services rather
rather than centralized in-the-hands-of-big-players cloud storages and
services. But the nice thing with web apps should be that they should be
able to play well with both philosophies. :)