Re: Mac OS X 10.4 "Tiger" Support Post-1.9.1
Samuel Sidler
-Sam
On Nov 15, 2008, at 8:04 PM, Mike Beltzner wrote:
> While I think I agree with Connor's analysis, I'd like to see the
> balance of
> costs in terms of what continuing support for 10.4 will mean for:
>
> - what we can't do for 3.2
> - what extra we must now do for 3.2
>
> cheers,
> mike
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: dev-planning-bounces+beltzner=mozil...@lists.mozilla.org
> <dev-planning-bounces+beltzner=mozil...@lists.mozilla.org>
> To: Samuel Sidler <s...@mozilla.com>
> Cc: jos...@gmail.com <jos...@gmail.com>; dev-pl...@lists.mozilla.org
> <dev-pl...@lists.mozilla.org>
> Sent: Sat Nov 15 12:00:57 2008
> Subject: Re: Mac OS X 10.4 "Tiger" Support Post-1.9.1
>
> So, I've read through most of this now, and I think most of the points
> are well-understood by now. I'm going to assert a few things here:
>
> * It is entirely unclear that significant migration from 10.4 will
> occur by the time we ship 3.2
> * There is not a compelling set of data which points to 64-bit support
> being critical in any way to a 3.2 release, or even definitively in
> scope.
> * We don't have a crisp EOL date that Apple is giving us for 10.4
> support, so we can't plan against that either.
> * We do not have a definitive set of changes that will push us to
> switch to 64-bit-safe APIs
>
> Based on all of this, there just isn't a case that I can see as
> acceptable from a product standpoint for dropping 10.4 support after
> 1.9.1. After 1.9.2 there is an entirely different set of math, but
> then we're basically talking about dropping support in Q2 2010, and
> that seems like an entirely reasonable timeframe.
>
> Going beyond this specific case, i think we need to draft a real
> policy on how we end support for platforms in general. I'll post a
> followup on that subject shortly, since I've been thinking about that
> since before we dropped Win9x and 10.3 support in Firefox 3.
>
> -- Mike
>
> On 11-Nov-08, at 9:40 PM, Samuel Sidler wrote:
>
>> On Nov 11, 2008, at 6:20 PM, jos...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> Given what we saw for 10.3, there's a chance usage on 10.4 could
>>>> even go up
>>>
>>> That's not going to happen. Sam argued against himself well right
>>> after he said that :)
>>
>> Yeah, I did. I argued with myself and won!
>>
>> But at the same time, we don't know when Safari 4 final will ship
>> and we don't know how long it'll actually be supported. So it may
>> matter in, say, the second half of the first year. Or, more likely,
>> the last six months of the 1.5 years, if we want to try and estimate
>> that far ahead.
>>
>>>> Based on this data, I'm not sure we can ignore > 40% of our Mac
>>>> users
>>>> now, when they'll still be > 25% of our Mac users a year from now.
>>>
>>> Its more than a year from now that we're talking about - a couple
>>> more
>>> months at least for 3.1, 10 months until 3.2, then 6 more months for
>>> 3.1 to EOL. That's 1.5 years.
>>
>> Yes, but we don't have estimates from Ken for 1.5 years from now, so
>> I was using what I had.
>>
>>> I just don't believe that 10.4 users will constitute 25% of our
>>> users
>>> in February or March of 2010.
>>
>> I wouldn't believe that either. I think that if we're dropping ~5%
>> ratio of 10.4:10.5 every four months, we'll be around 20% of Mac
>> users. (fwiw, using the math I was using earlier put it around 28%
>> after one year, but I didn't think getting that precise was useful.)
>>
>> -Sam
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Samuel Sidler
issued Security Update 2008-008 for Mac OS X 10.4.11.
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3338
Josh, I hadn't heard any follow up, so I'll consider this thread closed.
-Sam
jos...@gmail.com
issuing them over a year from now, when Firefox 3.1 support ends.
Apple is certainly still supporting 10.4 today.
About 64-bit plugin availability, there is now 64-bit Flash and Java
for Linux, that wasn't the case last time a post discussed that. I
don't think we really need to worry too much about 64-bit plugins by
the time we'd realistically finish and ship a 64-bit port of Firefox
for Mac OS X.
Other new info, there is some evidence that Apple plans to ship 10.6
earlier than expected, in Q1 of 2009. Easy to find that stuff by
googling.
I think we have most of the information we need, we're working on a
decision now. Thanks.
-Josh