Thunderbird - Landing "Filelink" (aka BigFiles) and "Instant Messaging" soon

[Mark Banner]

Hi All,

This is just a small note that we're planning on landing a couple of
Thunderbird features real soon. They've already been tested well in our
developer test builds and we're ready to push these out to our nightly &
aurora testers.

We may be landing these today if we complete the final review actions
appropriately, if not they will land later in the week.

Comments on the strings in the builds are most welcome (note, I've
already commented on improving some), and if you get them in before
landing of the patches, then we should be able to address them avoiding
follow-ups.

- Filelink (https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=698925)
-- This was originally known as 'BigFiles'
- Instant Messaging (https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=714733)
-- The /chat parts of this are the same as InstantBird, if you've
already localised InstantBird, then you will likely be able to use a lot
of the same strings here.

I've cc'ed the tb-l10n watch-all on those bugs, sorry that I was late in
doing so, I meant to do it last week, but I forgot as I have been very
busy with the releases. Hence why I'm sending this email now as an extra
prompt.

Mark.

[Michael Bauer]

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the headsup. Are the names Filelink and InstantBird up for
translation or are the to be treated as non-translatables?

I'm slightly puzzled by a chat application appearing in Thunderbird
rather than Firefox - or am I misreading "chat"?

Cheers

Michael

[Mark Banner]

On 12/03/2012 20:36, Michael Bauer wrote:
> Hi Mark,
>
> Thanks for the headsup. Are the names Filelink and InstantBird up for
> translation or are the to be treated as non-translatables?

Sorry to be unclear.

- Filelink: treat as non-translatable.
- InstantBird: although I used this name, it shouldn't actually appear
anywhere in the strings, as that's the name for the InstantBird client.

> I'm slightly puzzled by a chat application appearing in Thunderbird
> rather than Firefox - or am I misreading "chat"?

We're thinking of Thunderbird as more than just email - and examining
ways to include messaging. It isn't all about chat (although irc, gtalk
do feature). For instance, you'll be able to use Twitter from within
Thunderbird.

One of the added advantages here is that you'll be able to access all
your conversations with a user directly from Thunderbird. So your global
database will store content of twitter etc.

Hence if you're trying to remember what you discussed with someone and
can't remember if you had that discussion on email, irc or whatever,
you'll be able to look it up easily.

There's also more integrations that could be possible that we're
thinking about looking at in the future, all of which will go towards
helping users manage their messaging as a whole.

Mark.

[Rimas Kudelis]

2012.03.12 22:59, Mark Banner rašė:
> On 12/03/2012 20:36, Michael Bauer wrote:
>> Hi Mark,
>>
>> Thanks for the headsup. Are the names Filelink and InstantBird up for
>> translation or are the to be treated as non-translatables?
>
> Sorry to be unclear.
>
> - Filelink: treat as non-translatable.

What is the basis for it? Is Filelink a name of the service, or just a
feature nickname? Because if it's the latter, I think it should better
be translatable (e.g. as file link). I don't like having random English
words in my l10n just because they are an internal name for some
super-awesome feature. OTOH, if it's a service trademark, I'll just put
it in quotes and leave as-is (although googling for FileLink didn't show
me a service with such name).

> - InstantBird: although I used this name, it shouldn't actually appear
> anywhere in the strings, as that's the name for the InstantBird client.

Re InstantBird: why do some of its strings content accesskey markers
(underscores and ampersands)? Is it because those dialogs are native
code, or is it just different coding style?

Rimas

[Norguir]

On 16 mar, 19:01, Rimas Kudelis <r...@rq.lt> wrote:
> 2012.03.12 22:59, Mark Banner rašė:
>
> > On 12/03/2012 20:36, Michael Bauer wrote:
> >> Hi Mark,
>

> >> Thanks for the headsup. Are the namesFilelinkand InstantBird up for

> >> translation or are the to be treated as non-translatables?
>
> > Sorry to be unclear.
>

> > -Filelink: treat as non-translatable.
>
> What is the basis for it? IsFilelinka name of the service, or just a

> feature nickname? Because if it's the latter, I think it should better
> be translatable (e.g. as file link). I don't like having random English
> words in my l10n just because they are an internal name for some
> super-awesome feature. OTOH, if it's a service trademark, I'll just put

> it in quotes and leave as-is (although googling forFileLinkdidn't show

> me a service with such name).

Michael,

Thunderbird Filelink is the feature name. It can be shortened to
Filelink from within Thunderbird (capital 'F', all remainder
lowercase).
It should not be translated, pretty much in the same way you don't
translate Windows to Fenster (de) or Fenêtres (f).

[Rimas Kudelis]

2012.03.18 10:12, Norguir rašė:
> On 16 mar, 19:01, Rimas Kudelis <r...@rq.lt> wrote:
>> 2012.03.12 22:59, Mark Banner rašė:
>>> On 12/03/2012 20:36, Michael Bauer wrote:
>>>> Hi Mark,
>>
>>>> Thanks for the headsup. Are the namesFilelinkand InstantBird up for
>>>> translation or are the to be treated as non-translatables?
>>
>>> Sorry to be unclear.
>>
>>> -Filelink: treat as non-translatable.
>>

>> What is the basis for it? Is Filelink a name of the service, or just a

>> feature nickname? Because if it's the latter, I think it should better
>> be translatable (e.g. as file link). I don't like having random English
>> words in my l10n just because they are an internal name for some
>> super-awesome feature. OTOH, if it's a service trademark, I'll just put
>> it in quotes and leave as-is (although googling forFileLinkdidn't show
>> me a service with such name).
> Michael,
>
> Thunderbird Filelink is the feature name. It can be shortened to
> Filelink from within Thunderbird (capital 'F', all remainder
> lowercase).

Sorry, but I can't agree with this. Would you find it acceptable to see
random German, French or Litnuanian words in English Thunderbird's UI
just because the feature that these words represent was developed by a
German, French or Lithuanian guy? I wouldn't. I believe there's at least
a slight distinction between a product name (Windows, or Thunderbird)
and a nickname of a feature which allows to upload a file to Dropbox and
add a link to it in an email with a single click. It's not the same
thing, you know...

> It should not be translated, pretty much in the same way you don't
> translate Windows to Fenster (de) or Fenêtres (f).

AFAIK, in German Windows OS, windows themselves are still called
fenster's. I doubt any German guy would find it acceptable to see
"Schließen das Window" or something like that as a menu item title. Nor
would a French guy want a "Fermer la Window". For me, a menu path like
"Pridėti → FileLink" looks pretty much the same.

I understand that catchy names look good in PR bulletins. But please
don't ask us to leave those English buzzwords intact while localizing.
It just doesn't make sense (so far). How would you like it if words like
File, Folder, or Window were treated as "untouchable feature names"? Can
you imagine what a "localized" application would look like full of those?

Rimas

[Rimas Kudelis]

Just to summarize my position:

I find it OK to have untranslatable feature names such as Personas, Sync
or FileLink.

But I don't think it's OK when in a localized app, an actual object (or
perhaps method of using it) is called a "Persona" or "FileLink"
(untranslated and with capitalization like this), or when an action of
synchronizing data in that app is called "Sync" (also untranslated and
starting with a capital). From my PoV, that would be plain dumb. Try to
replace those words with e.g. Icelandic or Lithuanian and then evaluate
how natural and acceptable they look in English context. I seriously
doubt they would.

Rimas

[vito....@gmail.com]

Hi Mark!

Thanks for keeping in touch with us Robinson Crusoes on our lonely l10 islands(g). It is kind of late for this, but in the future, it would not hurt
to check new (brand?) names like Flink and Instant Messaging on Mozilla Worldready, What if Flink means some very stupid or indecent in a major locale?
See, we have to sell it to our locale, and we need to buy into it and accept it/find acceptable.

Regards

Vito

[Florian Quèze]

On 16/03/12 19:01, Rimas Kudelis wrote:
> 2012.03.12 22:59, Mark Banner rašė:

[...]

>> - InstantBird: although I used this name, it shouldn't actually appear
>> anywhere in the strings, as that's the name for the InstantBird client.
>
> Re InstantBird: why do some of its strings content accesskey markers
> (underscores and ampersands)? Is it because those dialogs are native
> code, or is it just different coding style?

The accesskeys marked with ampersands are required for using
nsIPromptService (as explained at
http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/embedding/components/windowwatcher/public/nsIPromptService.idl#47).
I think there are other instances of this in the toolkit and Firefox.

The underscores are used for accesskeys in libpurple (the library at the
heart of Pidgin) that Instantbird uses to support some instant messaging
protocols that are currently not supported by Thunderbird. It was easier
to have all protocol plugins handle the accesskeys in the same way, so
the protocol plugins that don't come from libpurple also use underscores.

Florian


PS. We write "Instantbird", not "InstantBird".

[Rimas Kudelis]

I see, thanks.

> PS. We write "Instantbird", not "InstantBird".

I'll keep that in mind.

Rimas

[Archaeopteryx]

After translating Aurora into German, I also have to voice my support
for localizable 'Filelink' to make it more intuititve. At the moment,
when people upload files larger 1 MB, they get the notification bar and
have to click on 'More Info' to learn what it is about. Using
'Online-Speicherdienst' (Online storage service) would make it obvious
to many people.

What are localizers doing whose letters are not latin?

Archaeopteryx

-------- Original-Nachricht --------
Betreff: Re: Thunderbird - Landing "Filelink" (aka BigFiles) and
"Instant Messaging" soon
Von: Rimas Kudelis <r...@rq.lt>
An:
Datum: 2012-03-18 14:12