What's Pontoon?
Pavel Cvrcek
I would like to know what's Pontoon and how it's related to Verbatim.
https://wiki.mozilla.org/L10n:Pontoon/0.1alpha
Thanks,
--
Pavel Cvr�ek <pcv...@mozilla.cz>
http://www.mozilla.cz/
Alex Buchanan
http://ozten.com/psto/2009/08/14/a-sketch-of-po-liveedit/
http://github.com/fwenzel/pontoon
-Alex
Seth Bindernagel
Here is a basic introduction to Pontoon:
http://fwenzel.github.com/pontoon/
Why it's filed there: I wanted to file a bug on Bugzilla in Webtools. There is not a general component there, so I filed it under Verbatim, which has been a code name for a long time for all of our l10n-user-interface tools. The initial implementation has been a Pootle instance, but we've always planned to do interesting experiments inside the "Verbatim" project.
Thanks for asking. Gandalf and I are looking for contributors if you're interested in testing, filing bugs, etc. Code is here: http://hg.mozilla.org/users/zbraniecki_mozilla.com/pontoon
Best,
-Seth
----- "Pavel Cvrcek" <pcv...@mozilla.cz> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I would like to know what's Pontoon and how it's related to Verbatim.
> https://wiki.mozilla.org/L10n:Pontoon/0.1alpha
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Pavel Cvrček <pcv...@mozilla.cz>
> http://www.mozilla.cz/
> _______________________________________________
> dev-l10n-web mailing list
> dev-l1...@lists.mozilla.org
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-l10n-web
Guillermo Movia
Guillermo
El 02/02/10 15:19, Seth Bindernagel escribió:
Seth Bindernagel
Guillermo Movia wrote:
> Is there some pontoon page enabled to test?
I asked Gandalf to enable a page on a local server where we were testing
the initial version of the tool. We'll turn that on and then I'll email
the address.
-seth
Pavel Cvrcek
Dne 2.2.2010 19:19, Seth Bindernagel napsal(a):
> Thanks for asking. Gandalf and I are looking for contributors if you're interested in testing, filing bugs, etc. Code is here: http://hg.mozilla.org/users/zbraniecki_mozilla.com/pontoon
Thanks for info. I will look at it.
Regards,
Seth Bindernagel
http://fwenzel.github.com/pontoon/
and here is the experimental page:
http://pontoon-test.labs.braniecki.net/
Lots of work to do, but that's the starting point.
Guillermo Movia
> For those interested, this page will allow you to install the Jetpack:
>
> http://fwenzel.github.com/pontoon/
>
> and here is the experimental page:
>
> http://pontoon-test.labs.braniecki.net/
>
> Lots of work to do, but that's the starting point.
Great, I was playing with that site. It's very easy to change stuff. I
don't know if we could talk about some ideas right now or we have to
wait to futher changes.
Guillermo
Seth Bindernagel
Guillermo Movia wrote:
> El 08/02/10 22:57, Seth Bindernagel escribió:
>> For those interested, this page will allow you to install the Jetpack:
>>
>> http://fwenzel.github.com/pontoon/
>>
>> and here is the experimental page:
>>
>> http://pontoon-test.labs.braniecki.net/
>>
>> Lots of work to do, but that's the starting point.
>
> Great, I was playing with that site. It's very easy to change stuff. I
> don't know if we could talk about some ideas right now or we have to
> wait to futher changes.
Hi Guillermo,
Thanks for the note. In order for you to provide your comments, I added
a section to the 0.1 release page on the wiki. Anyone may contribute
ideas, features, requests, etc, by adding them here:
https://wiki.mozilla.org/L10n:Pontoon/0.1alpha#Other_features.2C_ideas.2C_requests
If we don't get those ideas into that release, we'll move the remaining
ones to the next wiki page we create for future releases.
-Seth
Pavel Cvrcek
> For those interested, this page will allow you to install the Jetpack:
>
> http://fwenzel.github.com/pontoon/
>
> and here is the experimental page:
>
> http://pontoon-test.labs.braniecki.net/
>
> Lots of work to do, but that's the starting point.
Looks like it's something like Interactive translator on SUMO. When I
saw this tool on SUMO for the first time I said somethinkg like "whow,
this cool" but after some time I saw some disadvantages.
For example, you cannot track new strings on pages easily. You have 20
pages (for example) and with new SUMO version two pages contain new
strings in GUI. You cannot track these changes easily via Interactive
Translator.
Second problem is that many strings are showed only in some specific
situations (error messages for example). Does Pontoon solve this problem?
Maybe one general question. What problem is trying Pontoon to solve? We
have Verbatim/l10n via SVN and stage server for every website which we
can localize. What's benefit of Pontoon? Will Pontoon solve some
problems which have Interactive translator on SUMO?
Regards,
Seth Bindernagel
See my answers in line below. Please excuse the lengthy response. :)
Pavel Cvrcek wrote:
> Dne 9.2.2010 2:57, Seth Bindernagel napsal(a):
>> For those interested, this page will allow you to install the Jetpack:
>>
>> http://fwenzel.github.com/pontoon/
>>
>> and here is the experimental page:
>>
>> http://pontoon-test.labs.braniecki.net/
>>
>> Lots of work to do, but that's the starting point.
>
> Looks like it's something like Interactive translator on SUMO. When I
> saw this tool on SUMO for the first time I said somethinkg like "whow,
> this cool" but after some time I saw some disadvantages.
>
> For example, you cannot track new strings on pages easily. You have 20
> pages (for example) and with new SUMO version two pages contain new
> strings in GUI. You cannot track these changes easily via Interactive
> Translator.
I think we would try to do this better than the SUMO UI and workflow you
see there. String tracking and management would be a priority. Keep in
mind that Mozilla localizers are developing this tool (Gandalf and
others...hopefully you too! ;) ). So, we're aware of some of these
issues and would want something like Pontoon to integrate nicely with
things like the Verbatim platform, which has (arguably) a nice
translation UI and statistics about translated sites.
> Second problem is that many strings are showed only in some specific
> situations (error messages for example). Does Pontoon solve this problem?
I don't quite know this problem, but again, the point of Pontoon is not
to extend translation problems we might have seen with SUMO. We'll
isolate those prior problems and try to solve them and do it better.
Great help here by bringing up these issues. You might consider adding
your ideas to the Pontoon wiki. One more time, just in case you didn't
see the link earlier:
https://wiki.mozilla.org/L10n:Pontoon/0.1alpha#Other_features.2C_ideas.2C_requests
> Maybe one general question. What problem is trying Pontoon to solve?
> We have Verbatim/l10n via SVN and stage server for every website which
> we can localize. What's benefit of Pontoon? Will Pontoon solve some
> problems which have Interactive translator on SUMO?
At Mozilla, I see that we have so many pages that could be translated.
Just think of it all... Mozilla.com, AMO, Get Personas, Mozilla.org,
Mozilla Messaging, 5 Years of Firefox, etc. etc. In fact, the list goes
on and on.
Imagine this scenario: With the installation of the Pontoon jetpack
(along with a fairly simple addition of code to a Mozilla web page to
identify it), we could invite people to translate whenever they visit
the site. That would allow even the deepest parts of our Mozilla
websites to get translated if a user wanted to...
Of course, the details are where it gets interesting and that is where
all the open issues surface:
1. How does Pontoon integrate with Mozilla sites built with various
localization techniques like Gettext, .lang, HTML files?
2. How do we allow Pontoon to work with localizable content presented
with javascript?
3. How do translations by end-users get reconciled and verified by
the existing localization teams without causing conflicts of
already translated work, translation SPAM from end-users, and use
of other tools like Verbatim?
4. What should localizers use if a site is enabled on Verbatim?
Verbatim, Pontoon, both, neither?
5. How do we offer corrections to new translations that come through
Pontoon? Can we add a QA piece to the tool?
But, the main problem we are trying to solve is that we have a TON of
content that could be localized and we only get a small percentage of
our site actually translated. What an end user sees about Mozilla in
the en-US version of our site is very different from the rest of the
world. But, if the content is good enough for English, then it should
be good enough for everywhere. Verbatim is nice, but it
"out-of-the-box" with Gettext, unless we want to do a lot of file
conversion with the Translate toolkit or Silme.
Ideally, Pontoon could be a tool that can get people translating quickly
and in an easy way across all of our web properties.
Thanks, Pavel. These are really excellent questions you are bringing
for everyone to learn why we are experimenting with stuff. I am happy
to discuss more and more.
-Seth
Guillermo Movia
> Maybe one general question. What problem is trying Pontoon to solve? We
> have Verbatim/l10n via SVN and stage server for every website which we
> can localize. What's benefit of Pontoon? Will Pontoon solve some
> problems which have Interactive translator on SUMO?
Right now, I think in Pontoon like the final tool to finish the website
localization. I had some problems with large strings that doesn't fit in
the desing, and work through svn take more time. I'm thinking in
Verbatim/svn and refining with Pontoon.
Guillermo
Seth Bindernagel
Thanks, Guillermo. I'll add your opinions to the wiki notes. To
summarize Pontoon for you right now:
1. Great tool to finish a localization, almost like a QA tool to see
strings in context and change translations if necessary
2. Figure out a way to deal with large strings with Pontoon
3. Continue to use Verbatim and SVN for large projects, using Pontoon
to refine.
Thanks for your early usability feedback. Comments are here:
https://wiki.mozilla.org/L10n:Pontoon/0.1alpha#Other_features.2C_ideas.2C_requests
-Seth