[ANNOUNCE] Localizing Get Personas (with Verbatim!)

[Seth Bindernagel]

Dear Web-l10n Localizers:

The time to localize the Get Personas Website is now here.

Because the basic functionality of the original Get Personas extension
is now a part of Firefox 3.6, *ALL* users will now be able to experience
the fun and magic of Personas. As you know the First Run and What's New
pages will feature Personas for end-users to try in Firefox 3.6. Those
pages will then direct people to the Get Personas website at
http://www.getpersonas.com.

To help with the localization, we have launched Verbatim and loaded Get
Personas (along with AMO and SUMO) as a projects for everyone to
localize. Verbatim can be found at https://localize.mozilla.org/

Please keep in mind, you do not have to use Verbatim to localize the
site. It is a tool for you and your community to use, but is not
mandatory. If you are interested in using it, here are a couple of
notes to keep in mind:

1. The site is LDAP enabled so use your LDAP username and password to
login.
2. Email us when you log in for the first time and we will give you
ownership over your locale.
3. We have 48 languages and will work on the remaining ~30. If you
don't see your locale, please email us and we will work on getting it.
1. *To add your locale, we will need to know your plural form
for your language*. You will need to tell us this. For
reference, see this page:
http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/l10n/pluralforms
4. Advertise Verbatim to your community to help get translations of
Get Personas. New users will need to register, but DO NOT need an
LDAP account. Only localizers have LDAP credentials and can log
in instantly. Those without LDAP can register and start providing
suggestions which the locale admin will need to confirm.

When you log in, you will see that Get Personas has 600 strings with
over 8,000 words to translate. This is a BIG project. We hope to have
this work done by the release of Firefox 3.6.

If you do not want to use Verbatim to localize Get Personas, you can
find the en-US .po file in Verbatim and download the file and work from
your standard .po editor. To do this, click on the "Translate" tab
inside your Get Personas project page and download the "ZIP of
directory" file for your locale.

Please email me, Gandalf, or Fred Wenzel with questions. We are the
team who has worked on launching this application and can provide the
quickest answers. You can also find us on #verbatim on Mozilla IRC network.

Best regards,

-Seth

p.s. Many thanks to "the Pootle Guys" for helping us with this project.
That includes Dwayne, Friedel and Walter who are all located in South
Africa.

[Pavel Cvrcek]

Dne 3.12.2009 21:17, Seth Bindernagel napsal(a):

> Because the basic functionality of the original Get Personas extension
> is now a part of Firefox 3.6, *ALL* users will now be able to experience
> the fun and magic of Personas. As you know the First Run and What's New
> pages will feature Personas for end-users to try in Firefox 3.6. Those
> pages will then direct people to the Get Personas website at
> http://www.getpersonas.com.

Are you sure that this is good idea? At this moment we have Personas
gallery on AMO (maybe the same gallery?) and we want to direct users to
another website? AMO is localized to many languages at this moment. Why
another website? There was short discussion about it in bug 528943.

> To help with the localization, we have launched Verbatim and loaded Get
> Personas (along with AMO and SUMO) as a projects for everyone to
> localize. Verbatim can be found at https://localize.mozilla.org/

Thanks for that. I think this site will be useful. Just few questions:

* AMO is translated via .po file which is located in SVN. Now I can use
Verbatim too. Can I mix both styles of translation or just choose one of
them? I expect conflicts.
* The familiar question for SUMO. At this moment is SUMO localized via
interactive translator and l10n table. After which period I will see my
translation on public server?
* How often I can see my updates from Verbatim on stage server? AMO, for
example.
* Is there any review process? For example: I have new contributor which
can help with translation. I direct him to Verbatim and want to be sure
that his work is good. So some review from my side is necessary.

Keep good work.

--
Pavel Cvrček <pcv...@mozilla.cz>
http://www.mozilla.cz/

[Zbigniew Braniecki]

Pavel Cvrcek wrote:

> Thanks for that. I think this site will be useful. Just few questions:
>
> * AMO is translated via .po file which is located in SVN. Now I can use
> Verbatim too. Can I mix both styles of translation or just choose one of
> them? I expect conflicts.

You expect well. You have ability to control the files in Verbatim and
you can just pull from SVN when you commit manually. It should merge as
much as possible, but the more you try, the greater the chances are that
you'll get a conflict, and then you have to go to #verbatim and ask for
help.

> * The familiar question for SUMO. At this moment is SUMO localized via
> interactive translator and l10n table. After which period I will see my
> translation on public server?

No rules changed. As a locale owner/peer in Verbatim you get ability to
commit changes to the server. When you commit, they'll show up depending
on the project policy.

> * How often I can see my updates from Verbatim on stage server? AMO, for
> example.

same here.

> * Is there any review process? For example: I have new contributor which
> can help with translation. I direct him to Verbatim and want to be sure
> that his work is good. So some review from my side is necessary.

New contributors cannot localize, they can only suggest and you accept
or reject the suggestions.

Greetings,
gandalf
--

Mozilla (http://www.mozilla.org)

[Nukeador]

For Spanish, we usually do a common es-XX translation for web pages, is
it possible to have and common "es" language in Verbatim?

Regards.

--
Nukeador
Clave PGP: http://www.nukeador.com/pgp/

[Pavel Cvrcek]

Dne 4.12.2009 0:07, Zbigniew Braniecki napsal(a):

Better than I expected. Thanks!

[Nukeador]

BTW, how could we define who should be a reviewer, who could commit... etc?

It would be cool to have 3 or 4 people per language to administrate
these permissions.

[Seth Bindernagel]

Pavel Cvrcek wrote:
> Dne 3.12.2009 21:17, Seth Bindernagel napsal(a):
>> Because the basic functionality of the original Get Personas extension
>> is now a part of Firefox 3.6, *ALL* users will now be able to experience
>> the fun and magic of Personas. As you know the First Run and What's New
>> pages will feature Personas for end-users to try in Firefox 3.6. Those
>> pages will then direct people to the Get Personas website at
>> http://www.getpersonas.com.
>
> Are you sure that this is good idea? At this moment we have Personas
> gallery on AMO (maybe the same gallery?) and we want to direct users
> to another website? AMO is localized to many languages at this moment.
> Why another website? There was short discussion about it in bug 528943.

I've been involved in a debate with the project managers (like Mike
Beltzner, Jonathan Nightingale, Nick Nguyen, and Suneel Gupta) about
this very topic.

Because of decisions made months ago about the release date of FF 3.6
with Personas support by the end of 2009, we had to go with a site that
was already developed instead of AMO, which was just not ready to
support the type of magic that needs to happen with light-weight
themes. So, we decided that the experience had to be with Get Personas.

In the meantime, AMO project managers started to ramp up supporting
light-weight themes from AMO. That's why you see so many personas on
AMO. Eventually, the sites will merge and the user experience should be
what you suggest above. I have been told that nearly all, if not all,
strings that we work on for Get Personas.com now will remain and be used
for the eventual merged sites.

Time line for the eventual merger? I don't know. But, Get Personas
will be the primary site for a good piece of time.

I hope that helps. And, I hope Verbatim will be the tool that is
helpful for you to get the body of work done.

Thanks for the question. Keep them coming!

Sincerely,

sethb

[Anas Husseini]

Hi,

Thank you Seth and thanks for the Pootle guys. It is really a useful idea
for Arabic translators. I was thinking of uploading some of mozilla l10n
files to the web and make them available to translate (through pootle or
similar softwares) by volunteers, but Verbatism saved me the effort, and it
is better managed in this way.

Regards

- Anas

On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 10:17 PM, Seth Bindernagel <se...@mozilla.com> wrote:

> Dear Web-l10n Localizers:
>
> The time to localize the Get Personas Website is now here.
>

> Because the basic functionality of the original Get Personas extension is
> now a part of Firefox 3.6, *ALL* users will now be able to experience the
> fun and magic of Personas. As you know the First Run and What's New pages
> will feature Personas for end-users to try in Firefox 3.6. Those pages will
> then direct people to the Get Personas website at
> http://www.getpersonas.com.
>

> To help with the localization, we have launched Verbatim and loaded Get
> Personas (along with AMO and SUMO) as a projects for everyone to localize.
> Verbatim can be found at https://localize.mozilla.org/
>

> _______________________________________________
> dev-l10n-web mailing list
> dev-l1...@lists.mozilla.org
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-l10n-web
>

--
Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

[Tim Chien (MozTW)]

Dears,

One problem: My peers told me that people without LADP accounts failed
to register Verbatim and encountered error 553.
Is there any special requirement for the account name?

I have been do experiment on translation platform for more than a
year, my experiences is that Pootle (which Verbatim is based) handles
GetText format well while Narro is superior when dealing with Mozilla
formats (.dtd and .properties).

Mozilla Taiwan currently translates products in Narro, if Verbatim is
good we would consider moving web content projects to it, or host our
own Verbatim/Pootle. We host our own Narro instead of using the one on
l10n.mozilla.org because connection speed and execution speed are
important factors for such dynamic web app.

Glad to see Mozilla is moving toward providing such services.

Tim
MozTW

2009/12/4 Seth Bindernagel <se...@mozilla.com>:

[Pavel Cvrcek]

Dne 4.12.2009 2:13, Seth Bindernagel napsal(a):

> Because of decisions made months ago about the release date of FF 3.6
> with Personas support by the end of 2009, we had to go with a site that
> was already developed instead of AMO, which was just not ready to
> support the type of magic that needs to happen with light-weight themes.
> So, we decided that the experience had to be with Get Personas.

Thanks for answer. I'm looking at it in my point of view. I should
localize new site which offers familiar functionality like AMO has at
this moment. I can do it but it takes some time which I can use for
another work for Mozilla. Human sources are limited for many l10n teams.

[Jesper Kristensen]

I hope the switch to amo happens soon, as it seems like a waste of
resources to translate getpersonas. You say the site has 600 strings
with a total of 8000 words whereas amo has less than 20 strings with
roughly 3 words in each. Looking at the sites, I cannot find any
difference other than the layout. And if it is going to shift to amo
anyway, translating getpersonas will only be of use temporarily.

[wladow]

Exactly, I don't intend to localize the page as well (at least now).
More than 36 000 Personas are available on amo, there's no reason to
localize getpersonas as well. Moreover the timing of this localization
project is extremely bad. Seth hopes to get this done by the 3.6 release
- that's around the mid december, just a few days ahead. Hardly.
There're too many major releases coming up these days - fx36, tb30, fn10
- it means tons of strings, tons of webpages, tons of QA, tons of sumo
updates, amo updates etc. with limited resources on our side. Sorry,
Getpersonas is just "I'm wasting my time" project.

wladow
Mozilla.sk

[Seth Bindernagel]

Hi Wladow:

Thank you for your remarks and concerns, all of which are logical and
reasonable.

We are hoping Verbatim helps distribute the work load to just about
anyone, if we can publish it to our communities. It is a tool intended
to facilitate group participation and collective work.

For Firefox final release timing, we usually need two weeks after the RC
release before we ship a final product. Seeing as we don't have the RC
yet, and we will not ship on the Christmas holiday week, I suspect we
have more time than we think. Also, in all the releases of Firefox, I
have never seen us only have one RC. Maybe it will be different this
time. I don't know.

As for time waste, the present experience is the the First Run and
What's New pages will direct users straight to Get Personas. I think it
is fair to say that we will have a massive number of hits to Get
Personas from our localized versions of Firefox, since that is where the
majority of Firefox users come from.

In conclusion:

* Verbatim should help distribute the translation work, if you
like. Hopefully some promotion to your local communities will help.
* I believe we have more time than one week to do this work.
* The intended Firefox user experience sends people to Get Personas
and will do so for the foreseeable future, with each and every
download of FF 3.6.x.

I hope this helps explain further.

Best,

Seth

[Ehsan Akhgari]

Hmm, now that we have this discussion going, I was wondering what things
GetPersonas.com provides that AMO currently doesn't. If they both offer the
same functionality (which seems to me by a quick glance), I think it might
not still be too late to change the decision of which site to link to on the
first run and what's new pages.

--
Ehsan
<http://ehsanakhgari.org/>

On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 11:41 AM, Seth Bindernagel <se...@mozilla.com> wrote:

> Hi Wladow:
>
> Thank you for your remarks and concerns, all of which are logical and
> reasonable.
>
> We are hoping Verbatim helps distribute the work load to just about anyone,
> if we can publish it to our communities. It is a tool intended to
> facilitate group participation and collective work.
>
> For Firefox final release timing, we usually need two weeks after the RC
> release before we ship a final product. Seeing as we don't have the RC yet,
> and we will not ship on the Christmas holiday week, I suspect we have more
> time than we think. Also, in all the releases of Firefox, I have never seen
> us only have one RC. Maybe it will be different this time. I don't know.
>

> As for time waste, the present experience is the the First Run and What's

> New pages will direct users straight to Get Personas. I think it is fair to
> say that we will have a massive number of hits to Get Personas from our
> localized versions of Firefox, since that is where the majority of Firefox
> users come from.
>
> In conclusion:
>
> * Verbatim should help distribute the translation work, if you
> like. Hopefully some promotion to your local communities will help.
> * I believe we have more time than one week to do this work.
> * The intended Firefox user experience sends people to Get Personas
> and will do so for the foreseeable future, with each and every
> download of FF 3.6.x.
>
> I hope this helps explain further.
>
> Best,
>
> Seth
>
>
> wladow wrote:
>

[Pavel Cvrcek]

Dne 4.12.2009 17:41, Seth Bindernagel napsal(a):

> As for time waste, the present experience is the the First Run and
> What's New pages will direct users straight to Get Personas. I think it
> is fair to say that we will have a massive number of hits to Get
> Personas from our localized versions of Firefox, since that is where the
> majority of Firefox users come from.

Some questions:

* Do you expect more translations of GetPersonas.com than AMO has at
this moment? From user experience I expect that more users will see
translated GUI on AMO than on GetPersonas.
* Can we except that GetPersonas will be merged with AMO in near future?
If yes, will be our translation lost or will be used on AMO?

I don't think that something what is linked from start/first run page is
loss of time. But I think that it's better to link to AMO instead of
GetPersonas.com. More users will see translated GUI on AMO and we can
use our time for project more efficiently.

Regards,

[Seth Bindernagel]

I'm passing the suggestion back to the Get Personas Dev Team. I'll
report back as soon as I hear from them.

-sethb

[Pavel Cvrcek]

Dne 4.12.2009 18:01, Ehsan Akhgari napsal(a):

> Hmm, now that we have this discussion going, I was wondering what things
> GetPersonas.com provides that AMO currently doesn't.

On AMO you can see Personas gallery but nothing more. On GetPersonas.com
you can add new personas and read thematic FAQ.

Regards,

[Ryan Doherty]

getpersonas.com has a few features that AMO doesn't:

* Tutorial for how to create personas
* Getting started information
* Ability to upload and edit your personas (AMO currently mirrors content)
* Favoriting personas
* Call-to-action for installing the Personas add-on
* Much cleaner gallery (in my opinion)

All in all, it has a lot more content and information about Personas,
which will is an important feature we will be promoting on First Run and
What's New pages.

-Ryan

On 12/4/09 9:01 AM, Ehsan Akhgari wrote:
> Hmm, now that we have this discussion going, I was wondering what things

> GetPersonas.com provides that AMO currently doesn't. If they both offer the
> same functionality (which seems to me by a quick glance), I think it might
> not still be too late to change the decision of which site to link to on the
> first run and what's new pages.
>
> --
> Ehsan
> <http://ehsanakhgari.org/>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 11:41 AM, Seth Bindernagel<se...@mozilla.com> wrote:
>
>
>> Hi Wladow:
>>
>> Thank you for your remarks and concerns, all of which are logical and
>> reasonable.
>>
>> We are hoping Verbatim helps distribute the work load to just about anyone,
>> if we can publish it to our communities. It is a tool intended to
>> facilitate group participation and collective work.
>>
>> For Firefox final release timing, we usually need two weeks after the RC
>> release before we ship a final product. Seeing as we don't have the RC yet,
>> and we will not ship on the Christmas holiday week, I suspect we have more
>> time than we think. Also, in all the releases of Firefox, I have never seen
>> us only have one RC. Maybe it will be different this time. I don't know.
>>

>> As for time waste, the present experience is the the First Run and What's

>> New pages will direct users straight to Get Personas. I think it is fair to
>> say that we will have a massive number of hits to Get Personas from our
>> localized versions of Firefox, since that is where the majority of Firefox
>> users come from.
>>

>> In conclusion:
>>
>> * Verbatim should help distribute the translation work, if you
>> like. Hopefully some promotion to your local communities will help.
>> * I believe we have more time than one week to do this work.
>> * The intended Firefox user experience sends people to Get Personas
>> and will do so for the foreseeable future, with each and every
>> download of FF 3.6.x.
>>
>> I hope this helps explain further.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Seth
>>
>>
>> wladow wrote:
>>
>>

>>> _______________________________________________
>>> dev-l10n-web mailing list
>>> dev-l1...@lists.mozilla.org
>>> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-l10n-web
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dev-l10n-web mailing list
>> dev-l1...@lists.mozilla.org
>> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-l10n-web
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> dev-l10n-web mailing list
> dev-l1...@lists.mozilla.org
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-l10n-web
>

--
Ryan Doherty

[Jesper Kristensen]

On 04-12-2009 18:16, Pavel Cvrcek wrote:
> Dne 4.12.2009 18:01, Ehsan Akhgari napsal(a):
>> Hmm, now that we have this discussion going, I was wondering what things
>> GetPersonas.com provides that AMO currently doesn't.
>
> On AMO you can see Personas gallery but nothing more. On GetPersonas.com
> you can add new personas and read thematic FAQ.
>
> Regards,
>

Year, but I would guess the primary audience on the whatsnew/firstrun
pages are potential users of personas, not potential designers of personas.

Also if editing personas on the liked page is a concern, then I don't
think it would take much time on the AMO site to add the three links
seen in the GetPersonas top banner somewhere in an AMO menu.

[Pavel Cvrcek]

Dne 3.12.2009 21:17, Seth Bindernagel napsal(a):

> Because the basic functionality of the original Get Personas extension
> is now a part of Firefox 3.6, *ALL* users will now be able to experience
> the fun and magic of Personas. As you know the First Run and What's New
> pages will feature Personas for end-users to try in Firefox 3.6. Those
> pages will then direct people to the Get Personas website at
> http://www.getpersonas.com.

Will be any stage server for testing? Something like
https://preview.addons.mozilla.org/ for AMO.

Thanks

[Γιώργος Φιωτάκης]

>
> If you do not want to use Verbatim to localize Get Personas, you can
> find the en-US .po file in Verbatim and download the file and work from
> your standard .po editor. To do this, click on the "Translate" tab
> inside your Get Personas project page and download the "ZIP of
> directory" file for your locale.
>

Will we also have an svn repository or do we have to upload the po file to verbatim?
(btw, can i get the ownership for my locale (Greek)?)

[Seth Bindernagel]

I have updated your permissions.

The beauty of Verbatim is that you can commit straight from the UI. You
don't need to go through SVN. Verbatim will write to the SVN repository
when you submit your translations.

-Seth

[Γιώργος Φιωτάκης]

O/H Pavel Cvrcek έγραψε:

>
> Will be any stage server for testing? Something like
> https://preview.addons.mozilla.org/ for AMO.
>
> Thanks

I'd like to second Pavel's question, sorry if there was a reply and i missed it.

Plus, I see a lot of "...Personas for Firefox..." and "... browser..." strings
in the po file, but Personas are also supported in Thunderbird 3. Should we change that to
&Brandshortname or something?

PS
It's irrelevant to this thread but please also update my permissions for AMO in verbatim

[Seth Bindernagel]

Pavel Cvrcek wrote:
> Dne 3.12.2009 21:17, Seth Bindernagel napsal(a):
>> Because the basic functionality of the original Get Personas extension
>> is now a part of Firefox 3.6, *ALL* users will now be able to experience
>> the fun and magic of Personas. As you know the First Run and What's New
>> pages will feature Personas for end-users to try in Firefox 3.6. Those
>> pages will then direct people to the Get Personas website at
>> http://www.getpersonas.com.
>
> Will be any stage server for testing? Something like
> https://preview.addons.mozilla.org/ for AMO.

Hi Guys,

sm-personas01.mozilla.org be the staging server all localizers can use
to test.

-Seth

[Teo]

On 8 Gru, 06:12, Seth Bindernagel <se...@mozilla.com> wrote:
> Pavel Cvrcek wrote:
> > Dne 3.12.2009 21:17, Seth Bindernagel napsal(a):
> >> Because the basic functionality of the original Get Personas extension
> >> is now a part of Firefox 3.6, *ALL* users will now be able to experience
> >> the fun and magic of Personas. As you know the First Run and What's New
> >> pages will feature Personas for end-users to try in Firefox 3.6. Those
> >> pages will then direct people to the Get Personas website at
> >>http://www.getpersonas.com.
>
> > Will be any stage server for testing? Something like

> >https://preview.addons.mozilla.org/for AMO.

>
> Hi Guys,
>
> sm-personas01.mozilla.org be the staging server all localizers can use
> to test.
>
> -Seth

Thanks, but where is pl ?

[Teo]

Something about messages.po file. I see that many elements aren't
present in this file. I think that Personas Team should make hard work
for quickly check Personas web site and messages.po file.

[Teo]

[Ryan Doherty]

The stage url for getpersonas.com is now personas.stage.mozilla.com
-Ryan

[Bob Chao]

A quick question / request:

Do we really need to give the "make suggestion" permission to every
single user who wanna contribute?
Make it default please... :(

Just trying to get more people to help, but they can't get to work
right after registration because of this issue.
I have to give the permission for everyone of them, even as minimal as
"make suggestion," really annoying.

~Bob