I've made some works about the vertical view of Thunderbird (see bug 213945 from comment 26). Take a look at the last screenshots: http://www.mozbox.org/pub/tb/
In addition, I'm interested in developing a way (a TreeBodyFrame hack too) to include the message content *in* the threadPane (see http://www.mozbox.org/pub/tb/inlineMsg.png , an early draft, but it seems to be faisable).
Since such developments will require a lot of work and many discussions (such patches are layout component related, it could impact all Mozilla products), I really need to know if the way chosen is the right way and if this is something that could interest you for TB3.
BTW, is there something like mozilla lab for Thunderbird ?
> I've made some works about the vertical view of Thunderbird (see bug > 213945 from comment 26). Take a look at the last screenshots: > http://www.mozbox.org/pub/tb/
> In addition, I'm interested in developing a way (a TreeBodyFrame hack > too) to include the message content *in* the threadPane (see > http://www.mozbox.org/pub/tb/inlineMsg.png , an early draft, but it > seems to be faisable).
Cool!
> Since such developments will require a lot of work and many > discussions (such patches are layout component related, it could > impact all Mozilla products), I really need to know if the way chosen > is the right way and if this is something that could interest you for > TB3.
My feeling is that it's certainly possible, but it'd be good to have that come out of a bigger discussion of _why_ different layouts might make sense for what interactions, what users, in what contexts, etc.
Bryan, your take?
> BTW, is there something like mozilla lab for Thunderbird ?
Not really, but I'm sure if you had a specific idea for something that made sense within Mozilla Labs, that we could work something out. What resources do you need?
> I've made some works about the vertical view of Thunderbird (see bug > 213945 from comment 26). Take a look at the last screenshots: > http://www.mozbox.org/pub/tb/
> In addition, I'm interested in developing a way (a TreeBodyFrame hack > too) to include the message content *in* the threadPane (see > http://www.mozbox.org/pub/tb/inlineMsg.png , an early draft, but it > seems to be faisable).
Now THIS looks kind of interesting. Perhaps one needs to get used to it, but....mmm...not bad ;-)
> I've made some works about the vertical view of Thunderbird (see bug > 213945 from comment 26). Take a look at the last screenshots: > http://www.mozbox.org/pub/tb/
> In addition, I'm interested in developing a way (a TreeBodyFrame hack > too) to include the message content *in* the threadPane (see > http://www.mozbox.org/pub/tb/inlineMsg.png , an early draft, but it > seems to be faisable).
> Since such developments will require a lot of work and many > discussions (such patches are layout component related, it could > impact all Mozilla products), I really need to know if the way chosen > is the right way and if this is something that could interest you for > TB3.
> BTW, is there something like mozilla lab for Thunderbird ?
>> I've made some works about the vertical view of Thunderbird (see bug >> 213945 from comment 26). Take a look at the last screenshots: >> http://www.mozbox.org/pub/tb/
>> In addition, I'm interested in developing a way (a TreeBodyFrame hack >> too) to include the message content *in* the threadPane (see >> http://www.mozbox.org/pub/tb/inlineMsg.png , an early draft, but it >> seems to be faisable).
> Now THIS looks kind of interesting. Perhaps one needs to get used to > it, but....mmm...not bad ;-)
I agree it's an interesting alternative layout for mail when I realized it is using the Tb3 Tabbed Interface. Where I see a down side is how the layout would work for vision impared recipients. The need for smaller print to cram a subject line in below the Sender will reduce readability.
Has this been evaluated for news reading? News can generate some very long threads. Also, display of HTML content would need a zoom feature to enable images to render full detail. The Add-on that provides the Acrobat drag gripper should work nicely when a user zooms in on an image.
-- Ron K. Who is General Failure, and why is he searching my HDD? Kernel Restore reported BSOD use by Major Error to msg the enemy!
> I agree it's an interesting alternative layout for mail when I realized > it is using the Tb3 Tabbed Interface. Where I see a down side is how > the layout would work for vision impared recipients. The need for > smaller print to cram a subject line in below the Sender will reduce > readability.
Actually when I saw it I immediately thought about mobiles and smaller devices. It's an interesting approach.
Eddy Nigg (StartCom Ltd.) keyboarded, On 3/9/2008 10:35 PM :
> Ron K.:
>> I agree it's an interesting alternative layout for mail when I >> realized it is using the Tb3 Tabbed Interface. Where I see a down >> side is how the layout would work for vision impared recipients. The >> need for smaller print to cram a subject line in below the Sender >> will reduce readability.
> Actually when I saw it I immediately thought about mobiles and smaller > devices. It's an interesting approach.
Several years ago when MS was developing the Windows CE OS for Notebook computers they ran into a Font problem. All the stock fonts that MS was bundeling with Windows and Office products were either too large or poorly shaped to scall down to the smaller screens. The solution was having Mathew Carter, the elite font designer at Monotype, create a new font face which rendered clearly at 7 pixel size on the Notbook screens. The Nina family is a descendant of the sequence from Verdana to Tahoma then Trebuchet MS that Mathew Carter designed for the MS Web Font collection. Unfortunately Nina is no longer a free d/l from MS, and is now sold by Ascender Corp. which is the exclusive agent for the entire library of fonts developed by MS.
Not too far back in time, Bitstream designed the Vera families of sans and serif fonts for the Gnome Linux project. Those fonts, while copyrighted, were released under the GPL license which permits font designers to legally extend and revise the fonts. In my view, Mozilla Foundation should consider a similar arrangement that would permit shipping a sanserif font family with Fx and Tb as a system font to meet the needs of small screen mobile devices.
I have extensively revised the Fx and Tb themes UI with Nina in sizes from 8px to 13px. The tighter letter spacing yealds a lot more room for long subject or extensive threads before text begins to truncate.
-- Ron K. Who is General Failure, and why is he searching my HDD? Kernel Restore reported BSOD use by Major Error to msg the enemy!
On Sun, 2008-03-09 at 23:33 -0400, Ron K. wrote: > Not too far back in time, Bitstream designed the Vera families of > sans > and serif fonts for the Gnome Linux project. Those fonts, while > copyrighted, were released under the GPL license which permits font > designers to legally extend and revise the fonts. In my view, Mozilla > Foundation should consider a similar arrangement that would permit > shipping a sanserif font family with Fx and Tb as a system font to meet > the needs of small screen mobile devices.
Mozilla shipping the DejaVu fonts (the open-source descendants of Bitstream Vera) in their Windows and OS X builds (they should already come with most Linux distros) would be pretty cool.
David Ascher wrote: > paul.rou...@gmail.com wrote: >> Hi folks.
>> I've made some works about the vertical view of Thunderbird (see bug >> 213945 from comment 26). Take a look at the last screenshots: >> http://www.mozbox.org/pub/tb/
>> In addition, I'm interested in developing a way (a TreeBodyFrame hack >> too) to include the message content *in* the threadPane (see >> http://www.mozbox.org/pub/tb/inlineMsg.png , an early draft, but it >> seems to be faisable).
> Cool!
Excellent stuff, I had been reading over that bug after it was sent to me last week.
>> Since such developments will require a lot of work and many >> discussions (such patches are layout component related, it could >> impact all Mozilla products), I really need to know if the way chosen >> is the right way and if this is something that could interest you for >> TB3.
> My feeling is that it's certainly possible, but it'd be good to have > that come out of a bigger discussion of _why_ different layouts might > make sense for what interactions, what users, in what contexts, etc.
> Bryan, your take?
Yes, certainly possible and I really like what you've done so far.
I'd like to see this tried out; if it was an extension I would have downloaded it by now and tested it. But I agree that there are a lot of open questions in my mind about the overall design of the layout and where it fits.
Reading the bug from the beginning led me to believe that this layout change is necessary *only* for the vertical view layout because of the decreased horizontal space available. While on a wide or normal view there is plenty of horizontal space available to the tree view and therefore it doesn't need to compact things into vertical space. However it is interesting to see the change applied to other layout types.
What's the vision here?
I feel like it's a great time to start the larger discussion of what makes sense (in terms of layouts) for different people and their email use. I'm doing a bit of screenshot gathering of some different systems right now, I'll get back with those.
> I've made some works about the vertical view of Thunderbird (see bug > 213945 from comment 26). Take a look at the last screenshots: > http://www.mozbox.org/pub/tb/
> In addition, I'm interested in developing a way (a TreeBodyFrame hack > too) to include the message content *in* the threadPane (see > http://www.mozbox.org/pub/tb/inlineMsg.png , an early draft, but it > seems to be faisable).
> Since such developments will require a lot of work and many > discussions (such patches are layout component related, it could > impact all Mozilla products), I really need to know if the way chosen > is the right way and if this is something that could interest you for > TB3.
> BTW, is there something like mozilla lab for Thunderbird ?
> Thanks
> Paul Rouget
hi,
do you have working code to implement this? nice job if so, the custom tree view in threadpane is perhaps some of the most complex code in Tb.
1. are you using <richlistitem> for the header info? with the advancements in that widget in Fx (new urlbar autocomplete) this is probably the way to go. 2. imo, this should be optional for all views not just vertical. 3. from my understanding, this is a heavily requested feature, and belongs in core, probably don't need a lot of usage case analysis for this one.. 4. changing into/out of different views and changing from 1 line to 2 or more in threadpane should be dynamic, no restart. 5. moving the messagepane inline with the threadpane messages is interesting. moving major DOM nodes can be tricky, but of the 3 in Tb, messagepane is easiest and lowest impact. 6. don't forget the impact of Lightning - i've found it the only extension that is problematic with DOM node moves (threadpane and folderpane), but it doesn't seem you would need to touch those higher than their <deck> parent.
On Mar 10, 3:26 am, "Ron K." <kill...@gisco.net> wrote:
> I agree it's an interesting alternative layout for mail when I realized > it is using the Tb3 Tabbed Interface.
Yes, using the Tb3 tabbed interface with such layout change make TB UI really compact.
> Has this been evaluated for news reading?
Seems to work.
On Mar 10, 3:35 am, "Eddy Nigg (StartCom Ltd.)"
<eddy_n...@startcom.org> wrote: > Actually when I saw it I immediately thought about mobiles and smaller > devices. It's an interesting approach.
Is there any effort or plan about Tb on mobiles devices ?
On Mar 10, 5:43 am, Bryan W Clark <clar...@gnome.org> wrote:
> I'd like to see this tried out; if it was an extension I would have > downloaded it by now and tested it.
I can provide a TB build including these patches (bugzilla patch is not up-to-date).
> Reading the bug from the beginning led me to believe that this layout > change is necessary *only* for the vertical view layout because of the > decreased horizontal space available. While on a wide or normal view > there is plenty of horizontal space available to the tree view and > therefore it doesn't need to compact things into vertical space. > However it is interesting to see the change applied to other layout types.
> What's the vision here?
These patches provide 2 new features: * give a way to add more content below the classic row * display the message in the thread pane.
Currently, I use this new space to display subject and preview, which makes sense for the vertical view. But it could host any other information (just the preview for instance). Such layout changes don't invalidate current layout, there just provide new way to custom the TB UI. I think this layout change don't have to be vertical view only related. A checkbox in the view menu let you switch between classic rows and mutliline rows.
On Mar 10, 4:38 pm, alta88 <alt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> do you have working code to implement this? nice job if so, the custom > tree view in threadpane is perhaps some of the most complex code in Tb.
Yes, screenshots are not mockup. Multiline rows seem to work well (no big bugs). Inline message is really tricky, lot of bugs. But it's an early draft ! The TB integration is poor.
> 1. are you using <richlistitem> for the header info? with the > advancements in that widget in Fx (new urlbar autocomplete) th
