I know this is not popular. But TB should be at least consistent. When composing in HTML mode you get prompted to send the message in plain text and HTML, plain text only or HTML only. There is a configuration setting for this for email under Edit: Preferences: Composition: Text format. You can set this for Send the message in HTML anyway. I do this and for email it works. But for postings to Usenet it always prompts.

Now I know it's not popular to use HTML in Usenet but shouldn't TB be paying attention to the users settings nonetheless?

On 11/25/09 11:12 AM, Andrew DeFaria wrote:
Agreed; this sounds like a bug to me.  Most especially because NNTP !=
Usenet (eg the mozilla.* newsgroups are not part of Usenet proper.  File
a bug in Bugzilla, if you don't find one upon searching?

Dan

On 11/25/2009 12:20 PM, Dan Mosedale wrote:

On 11/25/09 11:12 AM, Andrew DeFaria wrote:
Agreed; this sounds like a bug to me.  Most especially because NNTP != Usenet (eg the mozilla.* newsgroups are not part of Usenet proper.  File a bug in Bugzilla, if you don't find one upon searching?

It seems it was already reported (287854). I thought news.mozilla.org was part of Usenet:

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet

On the Internet, Usenet is transported via the Network News Transfer Protocol (NNTP) on TCP Port 119 for standard, unprotected connections and on TCP port 563 for SSL encrypted connections which is offered only by a few sites.

$ telnet news.mozilla.org 119
Trying 216.196.97.169...
Connected to news.mozilla.giganews.com.
Escape character is '^]'.
200 news.mozilla.org

Hmmm....

On 11/25/09 12:06 PM, Andrew DeFaria wrote:

In my experience, Usenet describes the Big 8 hierarchies
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_8_%28Usenet%29> and sometimes alt.*.  
There are lots of other NNTP-transported hierarchies in the world that
are not part of that and are governed by their own policies, such as
mozilla.*.

Dan

On 11/25/2009 01:30 PM, Dan Mosedale wrote:

In my experience, Usenet describes the Big 8 hierarchies <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_8_%28Usenet%29> and sometimes alt.*.  There are lots of other NNTP-transported hierarchies in the world that are not part of that and are governed by their own policies, such as mozilla.*.

I guess you can have your own private definition but note it disagrees with the common definition.

On 11/25/2009 2:12 PM, Andrew DeFaria wrote:

I know this is not popular. But TB should be at least consistent. When composing in HTML mode you get prompted to send the message in plain text and HTML, plain text only or HTML only. There is a configuration setting for this for email under Edit: Preferences: Composition: Text format. You can set this for Send the message in HTML anyway. I do this and for email it works. But for postings to Usenet it always prompts.

Now I know it's not popular to use HTML in Usenet but shouldn't TB be paying attention to the users settings nonetheless?

--
Andrew DeFaria
Confidence is the feeling you have before you really understand the problem.

Options>>Format>>Send HTML only, just before sending will always trump the "smart" selection.
(I think thats new in TB3, just in case you didn't notice it)

-- 
JoeS

On 25.11.2009 21:06, Andrew DeFaria wrote:

Usenet is transported via NNTP, but not all NNTP is Usenet.
All Ferraris are red, but not all red cars are Ferraris.

On 25/11/2009 21:18, Andrew DeFaria wrote:

Sorry for continuing this off-topic argument, but that definition is
certainly not his "own private definition". The same wikipedia article
you linked actually agrees with Dan and not you.

"Some users prefer to use the term "Usenet" to refer only to the Big
Eight hierarchies; others include alt as well. The more general term
"netnews" incorporates the entire medium, including private
organizational news systems."

The "What is Usenet" FAQ, which is about as official as one can get,
acknowledges all three definitions...
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/what-is/part1/#ixzz0XvHjhUX5

It's arguable which definition is more common these days, but I'd guess
among techie types more people would agree with the narrower
definition(s) than the broader one...

Michael

On 25.11.2009 20:20, Dan Mosedale wrote:

Make sure that you use the HTML composer at all. You can see that by the
proportional font while editing and the font etc. toolbar between
subject and body. If you don't have that, go to the identity for the
news server (it's well hidden) and check "[x] Compose message in HTML
format".

This is false by default, because you typically get thrown out of "the
big 8" Usenet pretty much immediately, if you post with HTML. It used to
be a big problem between Usenet people and new users from Thunderbird et
al, so we save users from that with a proper default.

I'm kind of surprised about bug 287854, though, although I wrote the
relevant code back then, IIRC. Did you look throuch <about:config>
whether there's a hidden pref? I guess we just decided we don't want to
expose such a pref to the UI, because the risk of novice users not aware
of consequences and get into a flamewar is too big.

Ben

On 11/25/2009 06:17 PM, Michael Lefevre wrote:

Sorry for continuing this off-topic argument, but that definition is certainly not his "own private definition". The same wikipedia article you linked actually agrees with Dan and not you.

"Some users prefer to use the term "Usenet" to refer only to the Big Eight hierarchies; others include alt as well. The more general term "netnews" incorporates the entire medium, including private organizational news systems."

The "What is Usenet" FAQ, which is about as official as one can get, acknowledges all three definitions...
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/what-is/part1/#ixzz0XvHjhUX5

It's arguable which definition is more common these days, but I'd guess among techie types more people would agree with the narrower definition(s) than the broader one...

Everybody has an opinion I guess. As you point out - this is off topic.

On 11/25/2009 06:19 PM, Ben Bucksch wrote:

Make sure that you use the HTML composer at all. You can see that by the proportional font while editing and the font etc. toolbar between subject and body. If you don't have that, go to the identity for the news server (it's well hidden) and check "[x] Compose message in HTML format".

I've done this long, long ago, as you can probably tell...

This is false by default, because you typically get thrown out of "the big 8" Usenet pretty much immediately, if you post with HTML.

I've been posting for years - I have yet to be "thrown out". Frankly, I don't see how one could be thrown out - killfiled by individuals - sure - but not "thrown out".

It used to be a big problem between Usenet people and new users from Thunderbird et al, so we save users from that with a proper default.

I'm kind of surprised about bug 287854, though, although I wrote the relevant code back then, IIRC. Did you look throuch <about:config> whether there's a hidden pref?

If there is a hidden pref then by all means reveal it. (if there was a hidden pref I would think bug 287854 would have mentioned it).

I guess we just decided we don't want to expose such a pref to the UI, because the risk of novice users not aware of consequences and get into a flamewar is too big.

On 11/25/2009 02:43 PM, JoeS wrote:

On 11/25/2009 2:12 PM, Andrew DeFaria wrote:

I know this is not popular. But TB should be at least consistent. When composing in HTML mode you get prompted to send the message in plain text and HTML, plain text only or HTML only. There is a configuration setting for this for email under Edit: Preferences: Composition: Text format. You can set this for Send the message in HTML anyway. I do this and for email it works. But for postings to Usenet it always prompts.

Now I know it's not popular to use HTML in Usenet but shouldn't TB be paying attention to the users settings nonetheless?

--
Andrew DeFaria
Confidence is the feeling you have before you really understand the problem.

Options>>Format>>Send HTML only, just before sending will always trump the "smart" selection.
(I think thats new in TB3, just in case you didn't notice it)

That would be odd if true - and still a bother. But let's try it...