SM 1.1.7? SM 2.0.0.BETA.1?
Eddie-MacG3
[Mozilla] WeeklyUpdates/2007-11-19
http://wiki.mozilla.org/WeeklyUpdates/2007-11-19
" Fx 2.0.0.10 / TB 2.0.0.9
...
* Firefox 2.0.0.10 release will be on 11/26
if no new issues are reported."
Will there be a SeaMonkey 1.1.7
coinciding with FF 2.0.0.10?
Secondly:
Firefox 3 Beta 1 now available for download
http://developer.mozilla.org/devnews/index.php/2007/11/19/firefox-3-beta-1-now-available-for-download/
Is there some timeframe in mind for when
SeaMonkey 2.0.0.BETA.1 might, or might not,
be available? A "No Earlier Than" page on the calendar?
Since SM does not, yet, have auto updates, I'm thinking
the sooner we can be promoting SM 2 Betas for testing
and planning ahead, the more testers we will attract,
and the smoother it will be for small business owners,
for example, to prepare for upgrading.
Thank you,
Eddie Maddox
Mark Banner
> Firefox 3 Beta 1 now available for download
> http://developer.mozilla.org/devnews/index.php/2007/11/19/firefox-3-beta-1-now-available-for-download/
>
> Is there some timeframe in mind for when
> SeaMonkey 2.0.0.BETA.1 might, or might not,
> be available? A "No Earlier Than" page on the calendar?
See Robert's blog post
http://home.kairo.at/blog/2007-11/weekly_status_report_w46_2007
At the moment we've still got some changes to make and ones that are in
progress. Once they are done I expect we'll be in a better position to
predict these things.
> Since SM does not, yet, have auto updates, I'm thinking
> the sooner we can be promoting SM 2 Betas for testing
> and planning ahead, the more testers we will attract,
> and the smoother it will be for small business owners,
> for example, to prepare for upgrading.
True, but there is no point rushing a beta out when it there are still
some large changes we are planning to do in the backend.
Also, see Seth's blog
http://blog.mozilla.com/seth/2007/11/19/aus-for-calendar-project/ - we
have a community update server that is currently running for Sunbird. I
don't know timescales/plans on this, but I'd expect us to probably start
looking at auto update in the next couple of months (disclaimer: I've
not discussed this with anyone).
Standard8
Robert Kaiser
> Will there be a SeaMonkey 1.1.7
> coinciding with FF 2.0.0.10?
See the post I just made here. The short answer is: yes.
> Is there some timeframe in mind for when
> SeaMonkey 2.0.0.BETA.1 might, or might not,
> be available? A "No Earlier Than" page on the calendar?
No earlier than a few weeks after SeaMonkey 2.0 Alpha.
> Since SM does not, yet, have auto updates, I'm thinking
> the sooner we can be promoting SM 2 Betas for testing
> and planning ahead, the more testers we will attract,
> and the smoother it will be for small business owners,
> for example, to prepare for upgrading.
We don't have all the stuff working for SeaMonkey auto-updates either
but we hope to have them in time for Alpha, which we won't see in 2007
any more, I'm pretty sure.
We still have some parts of SeaMonkey 2 that are not yet ready for wide
testing, e.g. we still need to rework download manager, password manager
and system integration, which all don't even yet work correctly with
localized builds.
We're making good progress, but we still need to get some things going
before we can release anything that warrants testing by a wider
community, see the lists of unfinished in-work items and items we badly
would need help with in my blog post at
http://home.kairo.at/blog/2007-11/progress_and_help_wanted_on_seamonkey_2
If you know someone who can help with the items that are listed as
needing help there, we'd be very happy to have someone pick them up!
Robert Kaiser
Eddie-MacG3
> ... no point rushing a beta out
> when it there are still some large changes
Common usage/meaning of the term "Beta", in software circles,
is for demonstrating feature-complete and "bug-free" previews
for the purpose of soliciting further bug reports, feedback,
and wider audience participation short of "production quality".
There is just no concept of "large changes" in "Betas"
since a different term is used to describe software like that,
such as "Alpha" or "Snapshot", and for those,
the sooner you can rush them out, the better everyone likes you.
Thank you,
Eddie Maddox
David E. Ross
Some time ago, I found the following on the Mozilla Web site:
> Each Mozilla release is broken up into three parts,
> an alpha cycles, a beta cycle, and a final cycle.
> Alpha development focuses on feature work. Beta development
> focuses on cleanup and general bug fixing. The final cycle
> is limited to very low-risk changes and fixes for more
> severe bugs and regressions missed during alpha and beta.
The "final cycle" was called "release candidate", which I think is what
you consider "beta".
I don't know if that terminology still prevails completely. However, I
think the terms "alpha" and "beta" still mean the same as in the quote.
--
David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com/>
Go to Mozdev at <http://www.mozdev.org/> for quick access to
extensions for Firefox, Thunderbird, SeaMonkey, and other
Mozilla-related applications. You can access Mozdev much
more quickly than you can Mozilla Add-Ons.
Eddie-MacG3
> See the post I just made here. The short answer is: yes.
You released SM 1.1.7.RC.2007.NOV.19 shortly after I asked.
I am now using the .dmg flavor on my Mac Blue G3, OSX 10.3.9
as I type this. Thanks.
> No earlier than a few weeks after SeaMonkey 2.0 Alpha.
...
> We're making good progress, but we still need to get some things going
> before we can release anything that warrants testing by a wider
> community, ...
OK. I read the different links and, together with the Mozilla Ff/Tb/
Gecko
efforts, get the sense that we can Sorta Expect:
Firefox 3.0.Beta.X : 2007.Q4 - Done
Firefox 3.0, etc. : 2008.Q1
SeaMonkey 2.0.Alpha.X : 2008.Q1
SeaMonkey 2.0.Beta.X : 2008.Q2
SeaMonkey 2.0 : 2008.Q3
This sorta follows SM precedent of having Betas while Ff is doing
production releases and finding the worst of the bugs and security
holes in Gecko. Good idea.
Thank you,
Eddie Maddox
Jens Hatlak
> There is just no concept of "large changes" in "Betas"
> since a different term is used to describe software like that,
> such as "Alpha" or "Snapshot", and for those,
> the sooner you can rush them out, the better everyone likes you.
I agree that "release often, release many" is a concept that helps keep
users informed of the development of a software product. However,
SeaMonkey (and most, if not all other Mozilla projects, too) already has
that in the form of (compiled, downloadable) nightly builds. Granted, if
you are talking about media coverage, an Alpha certainly is perceived
differently than regular nightly builds. Yet I think there's little
sense in delivering even an Alpha at this point in time. Things are too
(visually!) broken at the moment, for example the Preferences window.
When these are done, one might consider releasing an Alpha.
Just my 2c.
Greetings,
Jens
--
Jens Hatlak <http://jens.hatlak.de/>
SeaMonkey Trunk Tracker <http://smtt.blogspot.com/>
Eddie-MacG3
> > Alpha development focuses on feature work.
> > Beta development focuses on cleanup and general bug fixing.
> > and fixes for more severe bugs and regressions missed during alpha and beta.
Thanks, David. I had forgotten about the RC phase!
I think you are right, but "Release Candidate" is a newer addition
to the process since "Beta" used to mean what RC now means,
but was getting "watered down". I think the current typical
"Alpha-Beta-RC" has proven much more workable
from a non-developer point-of-view.
Of course, there are always variations and exceptions.
Linus has no clue what "RC" means,
but he sure knows what "pre" is all about.
And GCC has a Four Stage process,
but only uses numbers for Stages 1-3!
Stage 4 is unnumbered and unnamed.
But these projects seem to be doing just fine
without need to adopt "Alpha-Beta-RC".
Thanks, David,
Eddie Maddox
Robert Kaiser
> we can Sorta Expect:
>
> SeaMonkey 2.0.Alpha.X : 2008.Q1
> SeaMonkey 2.0.Beta.X : 2008.Q2
> SeaMonkey 2.0 : 2008.Q3
You're making up things. it could very well be all of Alpha, Beta and
Final in Q1 as well, we don't know that yet. I surely would like to get
final before summer, but we don't make a schedule prematurely.
We don't release by schedule, but by quality.
We will release any of Alpha/Beta/Final when it's ready, independent of
when anyone expects us to release anything.
Robert Kaiser
Eddie-MacG3
> Eddie-MacG3 wrote:
> > we can Sorta Expect:
> You're making up things.
Yup.
Eddie