maozhu...@gmail.com wrote: > You purebred ignorant spastic assholes. This is too much. I hope you > all rot in hell.
1. You'll get nowhere by insulting people. An apology is in order.
2. GTK1 isn't supported anymore, not even by the GTK/Gnome guys themselves. The only GTK bugs getting fixed these days are in GTK2.
Worst regards, Tony. -- As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality. -- Albert Einstein
On Jan 12, 3:19 am, Tony Mechelynck <antoine.mechely...@belgacom.net> wrote:
> 1. You'll get nowhere by insulting people. An apology is in order.
Go to hell. You have just disenfranchised anyone running on a processor slower than 1 ghz. So much for cross-platform. So much for community. So much for all the nonsense I see printed on your website. All garbage and lies.
> 2. GTK1 isn't supported anymore, not even by the GTK/Gnome guys themselves. > The only GTK bugs getting fixed these days are in GTK2.
So what ? You claim to be developers so fix any bugs that become problems. Gtk2 makes this browser entirely useless for an entire class of people. If you want to be Internet Explorer, then just say so. Get a job in Redmond. As it is, there is absolutely no purpose for this browser. Apple has a better answer for their o.s., Microsoft has a better answer for Windows. That leaves "meaningless" as the best description for this piece of useless trash.
> Worst regards, > Tony.
No problem. From a person with no brains, sense or ethics, I care little for what you say. Enjoy your future without the entire hobbyist community ... but do me a small favor ? take the "cross- platform" schtick off the website, eh ? Truth in advertising and all that.
maozhu...@gmail.com wrote: > On Jan 12, 3:19 am, Tony Mechelynck <antoine.mechely...@belgacom.net> > wrote:
>> 1. You'll get nowhere by insulting people. An apology is in order.
> Go to hell. You have just disenfranchised anyone running on a > processor slower than 1 ghz. So much for cross-platform. So much for > community. So much for all the nonsense I see printed on your website. > All garbage and lies.
>> 2. GTK1 isn't supported anymore, not even by the GTK/Gnome guys themselves. >> The only GTK bugs getting fixed these days are in GTK2.
> So what ? You claim to be developers so fix any bugs that become > problems. Gtk2 makes this browser entirely useless for an entire class > of people. If you want to be Internet Explorer, then just say so. Get > a job in Redmond. As it is, there is absolutely no purpose for this > browser. Apple has a better answer for their o.s., Microsoft has a > better answer for Windows. That leaves "meaningless" as the best > description for this piece of useless trash.
>> Worst regards, >> Tony.
> No problem. From a person with no brains, sense or ethics, I care > little for what you say. Enjoy your future without the entire > hobbyist community ... but do me a small favor ? take the "cross- > platform" schtick off the website, eh ? Truth in advertising and all > that.
I am not a developer, just a plain user of Mozilla software. So if anyone has been disenfranchised, O troll, it's not my fault. <plonk>
-- Women's Libbers are OK. I just wouldn't want my sister to marry one.
> On Jan 12, 3:19 am, Tony Mechelynck <antoine.mechely...@belgacom.net> > wrote:
> Go to hell. You have just disenfranchised anyone running on a > processor slower than 1 ghz. So much for cross-platform. So much for > community. So much for all the nonsense I see printed on your website. > All garbage and lies.
Ha HA! "disenfranchised" ...right. I'm running GTK2 apps on a room full of old workstations ranging from P2-266MHz to p3-866MHz and they all run just fine. So I say Kudos to devs for sticking with supported frameworks.
Also, this is open source, so if you see something not currently supported that you want supported, the only "productive" thing to do about it is to put on some big-boy pants and take on the project yourself. I've rarely seen mudslinging actually solve anything.
Best wishes, and I hope you grow up to become a good developer some day.
A.tu.Br...@gmail.com wrote: > Ha HA! "disenfranchised" ...right. I'm running GTK2 apps on a room > full of old workstations ranging from P2-266MHz to p3-866MHz and they > all run just fine.
To be honest, changing from GTK1 to GTK2 in the case of Mozilla apps does carry a serious performance and responsiveness penalty. Menus take much longer to open, as do windows. Whether this is an issue in GTK2 itself or in the GTK2 widget layer in Gecko or both is unclear.
Now I'm not saying we need to switch back to GTK1, but dismissing out of hand complaints about the performance of GTK2-based Mozilla is just as silly as the original post in this thread. What _should_ be happening instead is investigation into why there is a performance difference. Sadly, the pepole who know Gecko internals aren't necessarily all that familiar with GTK2 stuff, and the people familiar with GTK2 not only don't know Gecko internals but also tend to have the same attitude you seem to: "It's fast enough for this limited set of uses, so we'll ignore the performance issues that arise in other cases."
> So I say Kudos to devs for sticking with supported frameworks.
Honestly, there's a tradeoff between "supported" and "working" that often seems to be skewed in the Linux world (that is, things stop being supported before the things that are supposed to replace them are working). Over my 12 years of Linux use, this has been the #1 problem I've had with it. So just something being "the supported way" doesn't necessarily mean it's possible to actually use it.
Boris Zbarsky wrote: > To be honest, changing from GTK1 to GTK2 in the case of Mozilla apps > does carry a serious performance and responsiveness penalty. Menus take > much longer to open, as do windows. Whether this is an issue in GTK2 > itself or in the GTK2 widget layer in Gecko or both is unclear.
Does the performance penalty remain the same when using a theme that doesn't imitate a native look, like the Modern theme for SeaMonkey? Our GTK1 never supported moz-appearance/nsITheme stuff, while our GTK2 code does, and I suppose all that code being called can have an impact.
On modern systems, I don't see any perf problems I can feel, but those modern systems are of course not comparable in speed or memory to a P2 or even P3 system.
Reality is that from what I hear most major Linux distros are striving hard to not ship GTK1 any more in their upcoming releases, as the most significant app that has not been migrated to GTK2 is XMMS, which can be replaced by a growing number of other multimedia applications. So, at this time it seems that GTK1 is soon going to be only present on legacy systems - after all, GTK 2.0 has been released in March 2002.
I guess GTK2 might never be as fast as GTK1 was though, as Unicode support, vastly improved accessibility, themability and font rendering probably need more memory and processor cycles no matter how efficient you do the programming.
Robert Kaiser wrote: > Does the performance penalty remain the same when using a theme that > doesn't imitate a native look, like the Modern theme for SeaMonkey?
Yes. That's exactly what I use, and responsiveness certainly got worse with the switch to GTK2 on trunk.
> On modern systems, I don't see any perf problems I can feel, but those > modern systems are of course not comparable in speed or memory to a P2 > or even P3 system.
Right. I'm using a P3-733.
> Reality is that from what I hear most major Linux distros are striving > hard to not ship GTK1 any more
I'm not saying we should switch back to GTK1. I'm saying GTK2 has some real problems.
> I guess GTK2 might never be as fast as GTK1 was though, as Unicode > support, vastly improved accessibility, themability and font rendering > probably need more memory and processor cycles no matter how efficient > you do the programming.
Sure. It's possible to try to make it faster and fail. So far even the trying hasn't happened.
> Honestly, there's a tradeoff between "supported" and "working" that > often seems to be skewed in the Linux world (that is, things stop being > supported before the things that are supposed to replace them are > working). Over my 12 years of Linux use, this has been the #1 problem > I've had with it. So just something being "the supported way" doesn't > necessarily mean it's possible to actually use it.
> -Boris
Yeah, I remember a crashing bug in the version of GTK2 installed on openSUSE 10.3. It hasn't crashed me recently in either BonEcho or suiterunner, but that crash was nonsystematic for me; and the corresponding Novell/SuSE bugzilla item ( https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=331725 ) was RESOLVED FIXED then REOPENED so I'm not sure of that bug's actual current status. See also http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=482531 , currently RESOLVED FIXED.
I'm NOT pleading for a return to the "unsupported" GTK1, mind you (let's be honest, it's getting quite outdated by now), just regretting that "the thing supposed to replace it" stopped working (for a time) when the latest release of SuSE Linux came out. But then, there's that old saying that there's only one kind of bug-free software, namely, obsolete software.
Best regards, Tony. -- You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on. -- Dean Martin
