Extension Manager UI

[Robert Strong]

Hi everyone,

The Extension Manager UI wiki is available -
http://wiki.mozilla.org/Extension_Manager_UI
Updated image with screenshots -
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=218044&action=view

Since there are very few plug-ins packaged as Extension Manager managed
addons I currently combine them with extensions. I could keep them
separate and only show a button to view Plug-ins when there is an
Extension Manager managed plug-in installed.
The same goes for Languages (e.g. Extension Manager managed locales).

Feedback on this and other suggestions for the Extension Manager UI is
appreciated. Also, there is information on the wiki regarding some of
the issues this attempts to solve.

FYI: the install view isn't shown in the screenshots - I hope to have
that done soon.

Thanks,
Robert

[Philip Withnall]

Look nice; just a few little niggles:
- On the "Updates" tab, the "Install this update" checkbox could be
centred vertically in the extension's "bar" instead of being inline with
the description.
- Maybe there could be a "Stop" button when checking for updates?
(Don't know how easy/hard this would be to implement.)
- The "Updates" icon in the top tab bar looks a little bad colour-wise,
though I presume it's only temporary?
- Perhaps the "Use Theme" and "Uninstall" buttons in a theme's "bar" in
the "Themes" tab could be a little closer together, like the "Enable"
and "Uninstall" buttons for an extension are.
- The "Install Updates" button on the "Updates" tab is a little
unclear. Is it installing the selected updates, or all updates? (This is
being a little nitpicky, though. :-P )

Nice work. :-)

[Robert Strong]

Mossop wrote:
> I'm not entirely sure on the putting plugins in with extensions. Most
> users already have trouble differentiating between the two and this
> serves to enforce that non-distinction. That said I'm not sure that's
> a bad thing either, except that you go to different places to download
> plugins than you do for extensions, and at the moment they install in
> different ways (unless you are planning on changing that). Oh and
> plugins don't auto update either do they?
These are EM managed plug-ins (e.g. em:type="16"). One reason we need
them in the ui is that once we properly read em:type (see bug 310843) it
would be possible to install an extension as a plug-in without any way
to see it in the ui. Same goes for locales.
> On the screenshots, the only thing that sticks out as really odd to me
> is the positioning of the update progress bar. Is the window totally
> unusable during the update process? Does the find update search for
> updates to themes and extensions, since with the bar there I cant
> switch between the two views. Not that I actually have a better
> solution to propose I'm afraid :(
It searches for updates for the addons in the current view. The updates
view shows all updates found (e.g. extensions, themes, locales, and
plug-ins) so I don't believe that it will make much difference. I
considered generating a new view when checking for updates that checks
all items but I think it is probably more appropriate to only check for
updates for the addons currently shown and just showing all available
updates in the update view.

There have been ui issues with people trying to uninstall, enable, and
disable extensions while they are checking for updates so instead of
allowing multiple operations at the same time which would be for all
practical purposes impossible to special case only the actions for the
current task are available.
> The update page seems a little strange. A checkbox against only one
> item. Does that mean I have to select the other items in order to see
> their checkboxes? Or I deselected them previously or something.
In the screenshot the ui only shows the checkbox for the currently
selected addon that has an update... I have since changed that so all
checkboxes are shown and only the selected addon's checkbox can receive
focus to prevent tabbing to addons that aren't displayed.
> Do the buttons for extensions only show up when that extension is
> selcted? And if so does that mean that rows change size as well. If so
> I can forsee a problem where I want to see an extension's options. I
> have to click hte extension then move to the button and click again.
> Whereas if the rows remain the same size I can at least estimate where
> the button will appear and just click twice.
Yes, this is true though when it resizes it will take over the space
above if the last selected addon was above it so it will be pretty easy
to guesstimate the location of the button. You can also just double
click the selected addon options or use the keyboard to select the addon
and then Alt-O to open the options, etc.
>
> Other than those questions it's all looking really nice, good work!
Thanks!

Robert

[Robert Strong]

Philip Withnall wrote:
> Look nice; just a few little niggles:
> - On the "Updates" tab, the "Install this update" checkbox could be
> centred vertically in the extension's "bar" instead of being inline with
> the description.
>

I tried this originally and iirc it looked a bit off... I'll try this
again to see how it looks.

> - Maybe there could be a "Stop" button when checking for updates?
> (Don't know how easy/hard this would be to implement.)
>

I'll see if this fits in well with the ui... Thanks!

> - The "Updates" icon in the top tab bar looks a little bad colour-wise,
> though I presume it's only temporary?
>

Yep, it is temporary.

> - Perhaps the "Use Theme" and "Uninstall" buttons in a theme's "bar" in
> the "Themes" tab could be a little closer together, like the "Enable"
> and "Uninstall" buttons for an extension are.
>

On the left of the selected addon is Options for extensions and Use
Theme for themes. On the right is enable / disable and Uninstall /
Cancel (e.g. Cancel Uninstall - when an uninstall is pending only the
Cancel button is displayed with the text Will be uninstalled when
%APP_NAME% is restarted to make it clear what the Cancel button is for)
for extensions and Uninstall for Themes. It looked best to me to have
the separation between these types of actions and this displays
Uninstall consistently in the same location for all types of Addons.

> - The "Install Updates" button on the "Updates" tab is a little
> unclear. Is it installing the selected updates, or all updates? (This is
> being a little nitpicky, though. :-P )
>

Only the updates that are checked... I also changed this so all
checkboxes are displayed.

Cheers,
Robert

[Axel Hecht]

I'm not sure about the "Languages" tab. This doesn't appy to langpacks
for the application and setting general.useragent.locale, right? This is
only about extensions providing localizations for other extensions?

If so, I think that bug 285848 melted down to "just work". Note, the
http://wiki.mozilla.org/Specification_of_Language_Pack_UI_for_Applications_and_Extensions
page doesn't incorporate the feedback and resolutions from the talk
page, judging from the modification dates.

How do we display dependencies in the extension manager UI? Like, how
does an extension look that is only installed because another extension
needs it? Say jslib, for example, if it was only installed because other
extensions needed it, should there be a visual feedback on that? I'm
asking because something similar may work for extension locale packs, too.

Can a extension locale pack supply localizations for more than one
extension?

Axel

[Robert Strong]

Axel Hecht wrote:
> I'm not sure about the "Languages" tab. This doesn't appy to langpacks
> for the application and setting general.useragent.locale, right? This
> is only about extensions providing localizations for other extensions?

It applies to all locales installed with an em:type="8" so if an xpi's
em:type equals 8 it applies to it.

> If so, I think that bug 285848 melted down to "just work". Note, the
> http://wiki.mozilla.org/Specification_of_Language_Pack_UI_for_Applications_and_Extensions
> page doesn't incorporate the feedback and resolutions from the talk
> page, judging from the modification dates.

This is for providing ui where the xpi's (e.g. language / locale packs)
installed with an em:type of 8 can be managed. After the ui rewrite is
finished the locale management issues can be worked out.

> How do we display dependencies in the extension manager UI? Like, how
> does an extension look that is only installed because another
> extension needs it? Say jslib, for example, if it was only installed
> because other extensions needed it, should there be a visual feedback
> on that? I'm asking because something similar may work for extension
> locale packs, too.

My current thought on that is to provide a visual cue along with the
option to view dependencies via a context menu option since extensions
with dependencies will most likely be few. Getting th ui in a state
where this can be accomplished is in part what this work / thread is about.

>
> Can a extension locale pack supply localizations for more than one
> extension?

Support for doing this and associating it as a dependency is not planned
though it can be done as a non-dependent locale pack.

Cheers,
-Robert

[Robert Strong]

Axel Hecht wrote:
> If so, I think that bug 285848 melted down to "just work". Note, the
> http://wiki.mozilla.org/Specification_of_Language_Pack_UI_for_Applications_and_Extensions
> page doesn't incorporate the feedback and resolutions from the talk
> page, judging from the modification dates.

btw: I'm not sure exactly what you are referring to. There are several
items you brought up on the discussion page that are not in scope for
this project. For those items it would be appropriate to open bugs for
those issues if you believe they should be implemented. The items that
are currently part of the plan where the technical detail as to how it
will be implemented are not called out don't need to be specified on
that page and will instead be called out in the design doc after work
has commenced on supporting locales.

Cheers,
-Robert

[Axel Hecht]

http://wiki.mozilla.org/Specification_of_Language_Pack_UI_for_Applications_and_Extensions
mentions to display the locale for an extension along the extension
name, for example. I think the resolution of the discussions was to just
not display that at all.

This is the one that triggered my senses, not sure if there are a whole
lot more.

Axel

[Robert Strong]

changed the subject line since this is regards to managing locales and
not the Extension Manager UI rewrite.

Axel Hecht wrote:
> http://wiki.mozilla.org/Specification_of_Language_Pack_UI_for_Applications_and_Extensions
> mentions to display the locale for an extension along the extension
> name, for example. I think the resolution of the discussions was to
> just not display that at all.
>
> This is the one that triggered my senses, not sure if there are a
> whole lot more.

The work on this hasn't started and the current thought is that we will
display at least some of the metadata from the extension's locale pack
for the extension and thereby allow localizing the metadata that is
displayed without having to use the pref method. If the locale packs
metadata has a name in the form of "Extension Name (fr-FR)" then this
method would method would provide essentially what that asks for. Keep
in mind that the work for this has not started so this is subject to change.

Cheers,
Robert

[Axel Hecht]

A localized extension name sounds good.

Makes me wonder if extension authors would want devmo-hosted guidelines,
such as "don't translate names of extensions, if you need to,
transscribe them". We do this for Firefox for the sake of sharing
mindset and identification, it seems to be useful for extensions, too.

Once you patch this up, this feature should have some docs on devmo, can
we put a mental note in each others brain to add a sentence like this?

Axel

[Robert Strong]

Axel Hecht wrote:
> A localized extension name sounds good.

btw: the pref method also works with em:name now though I am hoping to
be able to provide this method with the locale solution and prefer it
over using prefs.

>
> Makes me wonder if extension authors would want devmo-hosted
> guidelines, such as "don't translate names of extensions, if you need
> to, transscribe them". We do this for Firefox for the sake of sharing
> mindset and identification, it seems to be useful for extensions, too.
>
> Once you patch this up, this feature should have some docs on devmo,
> can we put a mental note in each others brain to add a sentence like
> this?

Of course... I haven't put much thought into it due to other work but
what ever methods is decided upon will definitely be documented.

Cheers,
Robert

[Robert Marshall]

Robert Strong wrote:
> The Extension Manager UI wiki is available -
> http://wiki.mozilla.org/Extension_Manager_UI
> Updated image with screenshots -
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=218044&action=view

Looks very nice, a few little things:
- As with the current theme manager, it's not entirely obvious which
theme is currently in use. Rather than just disabling the "Use Theme"
button, perhaps you could replace it with some text, or highlight the
row some other way?
- Does the "Updates" pane always exist? I think it would be useful to
show it only when updates exist, or at least highlight it in some way
when there are updates, maybe with the number of updates in brackets.
- It's called "Addons" and not "Add-ons", which is the term a.m.o uses
in most places. I don't mind which is used as long as it's consistent,
so one of them should be changed. :)

[Robert Strong]

Robert Marshall wrote:
> Looks very nice, a few little things:
> - As with the current theme manager, it's not entirely obvious which
> theme is currently in use. Rather than just disabling the "Use Theme"
> button, perhaps you could replace it with some text, or highlight the
> row some other way?

That is an excellent suggestion... suggestions on how best to accomplish
this would be appreciated.

> - Does the "Updates" pane always exist? I think it would be useful to
> show it only when updates exist, or at least highlight it in some way
> when there are updates, maybe with the number of updates in brackets.

It doesn't have to and I have been considering only showing it when
updates are available - same goes for languages and plug-ins (if they
are separated from extensions).

> - It's called "Addons" and not "Add-ons", which is the term a.m.o uses
> in most places. I don't mind which is used as long as it's consistent,
> so one of them should be changed. :)

I tend to use plug-ins instead of plugins... perhaps we should use
Add-ons instead of addons?

Thanks,
Robert

[Myk Melez]

Robert Strong wrote:

> Robert Marshall wrote:
>> - It's called "Addons" and not "Add-ons", which is the term a.m.o uses
>> in most places. I don't mind which is used as long as it's consistent,
>> so one of them should be changed. :)
> I tend to use plug-ins instead of plugins... perhaps we should use
> Add-ons instead of addons?

Merriam-Webster lists "add-on" but not "addon":

http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=add-on
http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=addon

But this blog post says lexicographers "seem to be favoring one-word
spellings" of new Internet-related compounds:

http://www.poewar.com/archives/2005/03/04/compound-words-a-proofreading-pitfall/

And wikipedia says "use of the hyphen has in general been steadily
declining":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soft_hyphen

As I recall from some linguistics reading (but I can't find a reference
at the moment), compound words tend to evolve over time and with usage
from the separated form ("word1 word2") to the hypenated form
("word1-word2") and then to the attached form ("word1word2").

We seem to be in the middle of that second transition for "add on", so
we should probably choose the term we're evolving towards ("addon")
rather than the one we're evolving away from ("add-on").

-myk

[Philip Withnall]

Myk Melez wrote:
> We seem to be in the middle of that second transition for "add on", so
> we should probably choose the term we're evolving towards ("addon")
> rather than the one we're evolving away from ("add-on").

Sounds good to me. I'm all in favour of proper speelling; "add-on"
sounds to me too...jerky, the pause in the middle not particularly
leaping off your tongue.

[Robert Strong]

sairamna...@gmail.com wrote:
> I have a few suggestions.
>
> You know Gmail has those javascript links (all, unread, read, starred,
> unstarred and whatever).
> How about having one for the Updates category like :
> All - Extensions - Themes - Languages - Plug-ins (and Maybe a drop down
> like 5, 10 for dial-up users(no wait this is too much and too dumb))
>
No sure what you are asking for here or if you came to the conclusion
that this is too much, etc. and decided not to request this.

> And how about a Disabled category for the Extensions Mozilla disables
> (Extension blocklisting) and saying "This extension has been disable
> (hyperlink to the explanation page) Learn more.....
> Clicking on Learn more takes you to a Mozilla.com or Addons.Mozilla.org
> page saying why this extension is disabled and the page having the
> authors email and homepage (if stated)
>
There is already a More Information link to provide this for blocklisted
addons.

Also, the ui is written in a manner that it is possible for an extension
to provide custom views besides the ones that are provided by default.

> And also how about adding a Plug-in category for Flash, Java plugins
>
For 2.0, if they are packaged as Extension Manager managed addons then
they will be displayed and will automatically have the Extension Manager
features (e.g. enable / disable, uninstall, update, etc.). I haven't
decided whether or not to separate plug-ins into a separate category
from extensions since there are so few packaged as an Extension Manager
managed addon.

-Robert

[Robert Strong]

sairamna...@gmail.com wrote:
> And another problem with Extensions, it's too hard to know what is
> where, so is this on your roadmap.
>
I'm not sure what you mean when you say "what is where"... you can take
a look at the wiki for info as to what the scope of the rewrite work is.
http://wiki.mozilla.org/Extension_Manager_UI

> And I was suggesting a whole new category for Blocklisted Extensions.
>
> Also Look at MR Tech Local Install, it's interesting what it does with
> Extension and Theme Manager UI.
>
I've seen it and it does provide a lot of options for those that like to
tweak. What I'm trying to provide is a ui that would meet the needs of
the majority of the users while providing the ability for extensions to
tweak the views (e.g. provide custom views in a manner that I believe
you are asking for) so those that like to tweak are able to by
installing an extension.

> Another question will the "Add-ons" pop out or open in a new tab,
> because I remember Ben saying Firefox 2 will turn Windows into Tabs and
> this has been done with Places
>
I believe Ben was referring to new browser windows and not chrome
windows and the places the ui is a new window now... so the answer is no
but as with most things in the application they can be tweaked with an
extension.

-Robert

[Robert Strong]

sairamna...@gmail.com wrote:
> When I said "What is Where". This is what I meant.
> I install multiple extensions (like 50. I know only us geeks do this
> but..)
> I don't know Where Adblock Plus is, so how do I locate it with the new
> UI. I guess this rarely happens.
>
It will be sorted by name

[Robert Strong]

sairamna...@gmail.com wrote:
> Thanks. One final question. Will this be ready for Alpha 2, or should
> we expect it in Beta 1 (or Alpha 3, that's been suggested in the
> meetings)
>
alpha2

[Tuukka Tolvanen]

Robert Strong wrote:
> Mossop wrote:

>> Do the buttons for extensions only show up when that extension is
>> selcted? And if so does that mean that rows change size as well. If so
>> I can forsee a problem where I want to see an extension's options. I
>> have to click hte extension then move to the button and click again.
>> Whereas if the rows remain the same size I can at least estimate where
>> the button will appear and just click twice.
> Yes, this is true though when it resizes it will take over the space
> above if the last selected addon was above it so it will be pretty easy
> to guesstimate the location of the button. You can also just double
> click the selected addon options or use the keyboard to select the addon
> and then Alt-O to open the options, etc.

If I double-click on an unselected item, do different things happen
depending on where I double-click? If I double-click a bit slowly?

't.

[Robert Strong]

Tuukka Tolvanen wrote:
> If I double-click on an unselected item, do different things happen
> depending on where I double-click? If I double-click a bit slowly?

No... also, this is something that works in 1.5 and the first click on
an unselected addon should select it.

-Robert

[Darin Fisher]

I think "Addons" may be too unclear. It looks like some strange,
unfamiliar word.

MS seems to use "add-on":
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/downloads/addon/default.mspx

-Darin

> _______________________________________________
> dev-apps-firefox mailing list
> dev-apps...@lists.mozilla.org
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-apps-firefox
>

[Mike Shaver]

On 4/16/06, Darin Fisher <dar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think "Addons" may be too unclear. It looks like some strange,
> unfamiliar word.
>
> MS seems to use "add-on":
> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/downloads/addon/default.mspx

Where were you when we were naming AMO? :)

I don't think it matters enough to deviate from our current usage (if
indeed "addon" is confusing, of which I haven't really seen
interesting evidence), and I agree with Myk's analysis of where we are
in that transition, though Yahoo results show a marked preference for
the hyphenated form today.

Mike

[Darin Fisher]

The Firefox homepage also says "Add-ons"... addons.mozilla.org says "Add-ons"

"Addons" looks like it could almost be pronouced "ad-dons" instead of "add-ons"

Anyways, it's up to you guys...

-Darin

[Mike Shaver]

On 4/17/06, Darin Fisher <dar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The Firefox homepage also says "Add-ons"... addons.mozilla.org says "Add-ons"
>
> "Addons" looks like it could almost be pronouced "ad-dons" instead of "add-ons"
>
> Anyways, it's up to you guys...

Why do you make me doubt myself like that? :(

Mike

[Mike Beltzner]

On 4/11/06, Robert Strong <rst...@mozilla.com> wrote:
> Updated image with screenshots -
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=218044&action=view

I'm late to this particular party, and most people have already raised
the points that I would raise; where appropriate, I'll add in my
thoughts inline.

The only new contribution I have at this point in time is to question
the neccessity/primacy of the [Install] button in the
Extensions/Themes panes. The primary interaction mechanism for
installing themes and extensions is by browsing the web (AMO or some
other site), clicking on the file, and then going through some set of
whitelisting/scary dialogs until Fx installs the thing for you. Yet we
dedicate some pretty prime real estate to a button that throws up a
file chooser just in case the user has the .XPI or .JAR file kicking
around on disk.

Instead, how about a "Get Add-Ons" button that closes the dialog and
opens a new tab (or window, I guess, depending on the
divert-window-to-tab setting) pointing at AMO? Then add a function to
AMO that lets a user specify a file on their own drive for manual
installation. As an added bonus, this gets rid of the much-maligned
hyperlink in the bottom right corner.

cheers,
mike

--
/ mike beltzner / user experience lead / mozilla corporation /

[Mike Beltzner]

On 4/11/06, Robert Strong <rst...@mozilla.com> wrote:

> Mossop wrote:
> > On the screenshots, the only thing that sticks out as really odd to me
> > is the positioning of the update progress bar. Is the window totally
> > unusable during the update process? Does the find update search for
> > updates to themes and extensions, since with the bar there I cant
> > switch between the two views. Not that I actually have a better
> > solution to propose I'm afraid :(
> It searches for updates for the addons in the current view. The updates
> view shows all updates found (e.g. extensions, themes, locales, and
> plug-ins) so I don't believe that it will make much difference. I
> considered generating a new view when checking for updates that checks
> all items but I think it is probably more appropriate to only check for
> updates for the addons currently shown and just showing all available
> updates in the update view.

So now I'm confused.
- I'm in the extensions pane
- I click "Find Updates"
- doo-dee-doo
- updates found!

Does it flip to the updates pane? Will I now see updates for themes as
well? If not, how do I select which updates to install, and how do I
install them? Was that what the install button was for?

I think I would expect that I could see it running through all of the
update checks, and then if any updates were available, I would flip
over to the update pane and they'd be listed there, perhaps along with
any other updates that I'd checked for previously and chosen not to
install.

[Mike Beltzner]

On 4/11/06, Robert Strong <rst...@mozilla.com> wrote:

> Robert Marshall wrote:
> > Looks very nice, a few little things:
> > - As with the current theme manager, it's not entirely obvious which
> > theme is currently in use. Rather than just disabling the "Use Theme"
> > button, perhaps you could replace it with some text, or highlight the
> > row some other way?

> That is an excellent suggestion... suggestions on how best to accomplish
> this would be appreciated.

Random ideas: the currently used theme could always be the one at the
top of the list, could have a different background colour, could have
the word "Using:" prepended, the icon could be replaced with a
checkmark or an arrow.

> > - Does the "Updates" pane always exist? I think it would be useful to
> > show it only when updates exist, or at least highlight it in some way
> > when there are updates, maybe with the number of updates in brackets.

> It doesn't have to and I have been considering only showing it when
> updates are available - same goes for languages and plug-ins (if they
> are separated from extensions).

I think you'd want it to always be there, but perhaps disabled when
there are no updates available, or annotated with the number of
updates available (like Mac apps show the number of unread/unattended
items in the dock)

> > - It's called "Addons" and not "Add-ons", which is the term a.m.o uses
> > in most places. I don't mind which is used as long as it's consistent,
> > so one of them should be changed. :)

> I tend to use plug-ins instead of plugins... perhaps we should use
> Add-ons instead of addons?

Throwing my opinion in on this one, as much as I'm a new age kinda
guy, Add-ons scans cleaner to me than Addons.

[Thomas Stache]

Mike Beltzner schrieb:

> The only new contribution I have at this point in time is to question
> the neccessity/primacy of the [Install] button in the
> Extensions/Themes panes. The primary interaction mechanism for
> installing themes and extensions is by browsing the web (AMO or some
> other site), clicking on the file, and then going through some set of
> whitelisting/scary dialogs until Fx installs the thing for you. Yet we
> dedicate some pretty prime real estate to a button that throws up a
> file chooser just in case the user has the .XPI or .JAR file kicking
> around on disk.

Mike, hold on a sec, and quickly think about how you browse AMO in
Thunderbird. Don't forget that the Extension Manager is in /toolkit, not
/browser.

[Robert Strong]

Mike Beltzner wrote:
> The only new contribution I have at this point in time is to question
> the neccessity/primacy of the [Install] button in the
> Extensions/Themes panes. The primary interaction mechanism for
> installing themes and extensions is by browsing the web (AMO or some
> other site), clicking on the file, and then going through some set of
> whitelisting/scary dialogs until Fx installs the thing for you. Yet we
> dedicate some pretty prime real estate to a button that throws up a
> file chooser just in case the user has the .XPI or .JAR file kicking
> around on disk.
>

Even if it isn't part of the Firefox ui we still need it for other
toolkit applications. There are also different buttons displayed along
the bottom depending on the view... such as:
Updates -> Install Updates
Installation -> Restart App_Name

> Instead, how about a "Get Add-Ons" button that closes the dialog and
> opens a new tab (or window, I guess, depending on the
> divert-window-to-tab setting) pointing at AMO? Then add a function to
> AMO that lets a user specify a file on their own drive for manual
> installation. As an added bonus, this gets rid of the much-maligned
> hyperlink in the bottom right corner.
>

Hmmm... the respect tab browsing settings is a different issue that
still would need to be patched for it to respect the user's settings.
This also won't work for users that are disconnected or for other
toolkit apps as mentioned above.

This is something I have thought about and it may make sense not to
display the install button for Firefox and a better solution should be
possible once we are on XULRunner for the other toolkit apps.

Cheers,
Robert

[Robert Strong]

Mike Beltzner wrote:
> So now I'm confused.
> - I'm in the extensions pane
> - I click "Find Updates"
> - doo-dee-doo
> - updates found!
>
> Does it flip to the updates pane?

Yes

> Will I now see updates for themes as well?

Yes, all available updates will be shown

> If not, how do I select which updates to install, and how do I
> install them? Was that what the install button was for?
>

There is a checkbox to include an add-on that has an update for
installation when clicking the Install Updates button. There is also a
context menu item for installing individual add-on updates. Once an
install is initiated the view changes to show the add-ons being installed.

> I think I would expect that I could see it running through all of the
> update checks, and then if any updates were available, I would flip
> over to the update pane and they'd be listed there, perhaps along with
> any other updates that I'd checked for previously and chosen not to
> install.
>

All available updates are shown and it automatically switches over to
the update view when there are updates available. If there are no
updates available it displays this in the notification area that I ran
by you a few weeks ago. If there are updates the updates view will be
available even when not checking for updates and it can be selected
manually... the process from there is the same as if it had switched to
the view automatically after checking for updates.

-Robert

[Robert Strong]

Mike Beltzner wrote:
> Random ideas: the currently used theme could always be the one at the
> top of the list, could have a different background colour, could have
> the word "Using:" prepended, the icon could be replaced with a
> checkmark or an arrow.
>

I think a different background color would be best.

>>> - Does the "Updates" pane always exist? I think it would be useful to
>>> show it only when updates exist, or at least highlight it in some way
>>> when there are updates, maybe with the number of updates in brackets.
>>>

>> It doesn't have to and I have been considering only showing it when
>> updates are available - same goes for languages and plug-ins (if they
>> are separated from extensions).
>>
>
> I think you'd want it to always be there, but perhaps disabled when
> there are no updates available, or annotated with the number of
> updates available (like Mac apps show the number of unread/unattended
> items in the dock)
>

We will have update notification back with 2.0. When checking for
updates it will automatically switch to this view. Personally, I don't
see much use for the having number there except for those that disable
update notification but it is doable... I'd prefer it to be a followup
after getting these changes landed though.

>>> - It's called "Addons" and not "Add-ons", which is the term a.m.o uses
>>> in most places. I don't mind which is used as long as it's consistent,
>>> so one of them should be changed. :)
>>>

>> I tend to use plug-ins instead of plugins... perhaps we should use
>> Add-ons instead of addons?
>>
>
> Throwing my opinion in on this one, as much as I'm a new age kinda
> guy, Add-ons scans cleaner to me than Addons.
>

I changed it to Add-ons after readin Darin's comments. :)

-Robert

[Myk Melez]

Thomas Stache wrote:

> Mike, hold on a sec, and quickly think about how you browse AMO in
> Thunderbird. Don't forget that the Extension Manager is in /toolkit, not
> /browser.

Thunderbird too would be better served by a "Get Addons" button which
opens AMO within Thunderbird, perhaps in the same pane as Thunderbird's
start page.

-myk

[Philip Withnall]

They're planning tabs of some sort in Thunderbird 2 (as is my
understanding) so perhaps it would be nice to open a new tab?

[Myk Melez]

Philip Withnall wrote:
> They're planning tabs of some sort in Thunderbird 2 (as is my
> understanding) so perhaps it would be nice to open a new tab?

Sure. It could be a tab or even a whole new window. The key is just
that it be integrated into the Thunderbird UI so you don't have to go to
another application (a browser), download a file, and then go back to
Thunderbird and locate that file just to install an extension.

Presumably Sunbird and other XUL applications that support extensions
would benefit similarly.

-myk

[Robert Strong]

SongBird has a simple browser available in their app which is
essentially what is being suggested here. One difficulty is providing
basic navigation capabilities so the app can go to sites other than AMO
or whatever happens to be the default. Also, I suspect there will be
difficulties in special casing this in the same way there are
difficulties special casing honoring tab browser settings for label's
with class text-link, etc. for browsers vs. toolkit apps that aren't
browsers (e.g. visit home page in an extension's about menu vs. get more
extensions in the Extensions Manager UI). All are doable but I believe
these issues should be addressed first.

-Robert

[steve....@gmail.com]

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.9a1)
Gecko/20060428 Minefield/3.0a1 ID:2006042808

Great work on the new UI, liking it so far, but some questions/comments

1) When right clicking on an extension, you get menu items for Options,
Disable & Uninstall. Since there are already buttons for these, is it
really necessary?

2) When an extension doesn't have options, the "Options" button is
greyed out. Worth simply not drawing the button in the first place?

3) When you right click on an extension and choose "find update" and an
update is not found; the "options" "disable" & "uninstall" buttons are
not displayed anymore. They only return when you change addons tab or
close and reopen the window.

4) The only thing I really don't like much is the yellow warning bar
with [Close] that you get when you right click on an extension, choose
"find update" and an update is not found; would it not be better to add
some text ("Update not found") after the extension name and version
number text? Text ("Update not found") would be removed when that
particular extension lost focus in the EM. I don't understand why this
yellow warning bar UI is needed.

5) When first opening the new addons window, there is a useless
horizontal scrollbar present that disappears when you resize the addons
window in any way.

6) For extensions that are installed, but incompatible (wrong version
number), the "Options" and "Enable" buttons are both present but greyed
out. Would it be better to remove them both? And perhaps for this case,
include a "check for updates" button?

7) IMO the updates tab in the addons UI should be right aligned. And
perahps greyed out when there is no update for anything available,
rather than disappearing.

8) I see that there is a bug open for considering having the search
engine management UI in the addons window. Would it bring us anything
useful to have a similar thing for 'plugins' - to cover
flash/quicktime/realpalyer/etc plugins?

9) In the Updates tab, the "include this update" tickbox doesn't
remember its value. I have an extension installed that has an update,
but that I don't want (never want to update it). So I would like the
Addon's Updates UI to remember if I have ticked this "include this
update". ATM if I untick "include this update" and then change to the
Extensions tab and then back again to the Updates tab, then the
"include this update" is ticked again.

questions/comments/flak
-> stevee

[Robert Strong]

steve....@gmail.com wrote:
> Great work on the new UI, liking it so far, but some questions/comments
>
> 1) When right clicking on an extension, you get menu items for Options,
> Disable & Uninstall. Since there are already buttons for these, is it
> really necessary?
>

Not really, just another way to perform the action.

> 2) When an extension doesn't have options, the "Options" button is
> greyed out. Worth simply not drawing the button in the first place?
>

I think this looks better when scrolling / changing selection with the
keyboard in that it doesn't appear / disappear... I am not set against
not displaying it though.

> 3) When you right click on an extension and choose "find update" and an
> update is not found; the "options" "disable" & "uninstall" buttons are
> not displayed anymore. They only return when you change addons tab or
> close and reopen the window.
>

Good catch... That will be fixed in
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=335780

> 4) The only thing I really don't like much is the yellow warning bar
> with [Close] that you get when you right click on an extension, choose
> "find update" and an update is not found; would it not be better to add
> some text ("Update not found") after the extension name and version
> number text? Text ("Update not found") would be removed when that
> particular extension lost focus in the EM. I don't understand why this
> yellow warning bar UI is needed.
>

When manually checking for all updates it is displayed as well when
there are no updates. It is also used to notify when offline,
xpinstall.enabled is false, and all add-ons are disabled by safe mode.
I'd like to keep it at least for the check all for updates - no updates
found though it might be better to just show the updates view with a
message in that view to the same affect.

I'd especially like a discussion on this one and thank you for bringing
it up.

> 5) When first opening the new addons window, there is a useless
> horizontal scrollbar present that disappears when you resize the addons
> window in any way.
>

That is a bug to be filed.

> 6) For extensions that are installed, but incompatible (wrong version
> number), the "Options" and "Enable" buttons are both present but greyed
> out. Would it be better to remove them both? And perhaps for this case,
> include a "check for updates" button?
>

My first thought on this is it is a good idea.

> 7) IMO the updates tab in the addons UI should be right aligned. And
> perahps greyed out when there is no update for anything available,
> rather than disappearing.
>

ditto

> 8) I see that there is a bug open for considering having the search
> engine management UI in the addons window. Would it bring us anything
> useful to have a similar thing for 'plugins' - to cover
> flash/quicktime/realpalyer/etc plugins?
>

It quite possibly would. Right now it only handles plugins packaged for
the EM and since there are very few of these it is only displayed when
one or more are installed.

> 9) In the Updates tab, the "include this update" tickbox doesn't
> remember its value. I have an extension installed that has an update,
> but that I don't want (never want to update it). So I would like the
> Addon's Updates UI to remember if I have ticked this "include this
> update". ATM if I untick "include this update" and then change to the
> Extensions tab and then back again to the Updates tab, then the
> "include this update" is ticked again.
>

The include this update is for the install updates action. There is a
bug to add the ui to not check or inform of updates to an add-on. I
agree with this as well but didn't have the time to include it at this time.

Thanks for the suggestions!
Robert

[steve....@gmail.com]

OK here's a little more :)

A) When you try and install an extension that is version incompatible,
the UI changes to the installation tab and the error msg appears
("..not compatible with.."). After dismissing this dialog, there is
(correctly) no extension in the "installation" list, so should the
"Restart Minefield" button should be greyed out?

B) When downloading an extension or theme, either no progress data
("XXX of YYY KB") is shown at all, or it is shown intermitently (shown,
not shown, shown, etc, as the download progresses.)

C) Also, it's not immediately obvious if the "Find Updates" button
searches for updates in the focused tab only, or all tabs. Infact it
does both, plus a search for a firefox update too i guess. But I can't
think of any way to make it more obvious that the "Find Updates" button
does Ext/Themes/FF update checks.

D) The background colour of the selected extensions.. is this the best,
a dark blue? How about trying a light blue a la the Extension or Theme
tab in the Addons UI, and keeping the extension's text black like it is
normally, rather than inverting it.

E)

> > 4) The only thing I really don't like much is the yellow warning bar
> > with [Close] that you get when you right click on an extension, choose
> > "find update" and an update is not found; would it not be better to add
> > some text ("Update not found") after the extension name and version
> > number text? Text ("Update not found") would be removed when that
> > particular extension lost focus in the EM. I don't understand why this
> > yellow warning bar UI is needed.
>
> When manually checking for all updates it is displayed as well when
> there are no updates. It is also used to notify when offline,
> xpinstall.enabled is false, and all add-ons are disabled by safe mode.
> I'd like to keep it at least for the check all for updates - no updates
> found though it might be better to just show the updates view with a
> message in that view to the same affect.
>
> I'd especially like a discussion on this one and thank you for bringing
> it up.

Fair enough. To me, the yellow warning bar seems to be a 'global' kinda
warning. So for notification that there are no updates to _any_ of your
extensions/themes/firefox is fine with me, as is notification if
xpinstall is false, and offline / safemode notification. I thusly only
question whether it should be shown when right clicking on an extension
> find updates, and no updates are found. In this case, for me the yellow warning bar seems over the top. But hey!

BTW, if you want me to file anything then just let me know!

q/c/f
-> stevee

[Robert Strong]

First... thanks Steve!

steve....@gmail.com wrote:
> OK here's a little more :)
>
> A) When you try and install an extension that is version incompatible,
> the UI changes to the installation tab and the error msg appears
> ("..not compatible with.."). After dismissing this dialog, there is
> (correctly) no extension in the "installation" list, so should the
> "Restart Minefield" button should be greyed out?
>

Good catch... there are a couple of bugs like this I'm looking into but
didn't find that one.

> B) When downloading an extension or theme, either no progress data
> ("XXX of YYY KB") is shown at all, or it is shown intermitently (shown,
> not shown, shown, etc, as the download progresses.)
>

That is a trunk only bug and I suspect it is related to the checkin that
caused bug 330073 or a related checkin which is also only on the trunk.

> C) Also, it's not immediately obvious if the "Find Updates" button
> searches for updates in the focused tab only, or all tabs. Infact it
> does both, plus a search for a firefox update too i guess. But I can't
> think of any way to make it more obvious that the "Find Updates" button
> does Ext/Themes/FF update checks.
>

Actually, it only searches for the displayed add-ons whereas the updates
view displays all available updates to add-ons (it doesn't search for
app updates). I went a couple of rounds trying to come up with the best
behavior and went with this... suggestions are welcome on how to improve it.

> D) The background colour of the selected extensions.. is this the best,
> a dark blue? How about trying a light blue a la the Extension or Theme
> tab in the Addons UI, and keeping the extension's text black like it is
> normally, rather than inverting it.
>

That is a system color for a selected item that fades the color and the
text color is the system color as well. This fixes the problem where
using some OS themes will make the text unreadable due to using a
background color. Not sure what would be best here and this would
probably be best addressed during the visual refresh... I'm cool with
going back to the old method but I wanted to at least try to get us to
respect the OS colors.

> Fair enough. To me, the yellow warning bar seems to be a 'global' kinda
> warning. So for notification that there are no updates to _any_ of your
> extensions/themes/firefox is fine with me, as is notification if
> xpinstall is false, and offline / safemode notification. I thusly only
> question whether it should be shown when right clicking on an extension
> find updates, and no updates are found. In this case, for me the yellow
> warning bar seems over the top. But hey!
>

I'm not sure how difficult it would be to remove the No updates found
message when a single add-on is checked for updates and while checking
another add-on is selected. I'll look into it.

> BTW, if you want me to file anything then just let me know!

Please do... I may not get to them until after alpha 2 is released due
to other work though. :(

Thanks again,
Robert

[Mossop]

Robert Strong wrote:

> steve....@gmail.com wrote:
>> 6) For extensions that are installed, but incompatible (wrong version
>> number), the "Options" and "Enable" buttons are both present but greyed
>> out. Would it be better to remove them both? And perhaps for this case,
>> include a "check for updates" button?
>>
> My first thought on this is it is a good idea.

The options and enable buttons are there in the majority of cases so I
think they should be in this case as well. Another situation you don't
mention is that the options button is still visible for disabled
extensions and I think that is correct as well.

I kind of got forced into this idea by a colleague when I started hiding
useless parts of the UI in an app I was working on. He got very confused
because bits kept appearing and disappearing depending on the
circumstance. He was much happier with them being there but being
disabled for an obvious reason.

Mossop

[Robert Strong]

Mossop wrote:
> The options and enable buttons are there in the majority of cases so I
> think they should be in this case as well. Another situation you don't
> mention is that the options button is still visible for disabled
> extensions and I think that is correct as well.
>
> I kind of got forced into this idea by a colleague when I started
> hiding useless parts of the UI in an app I was working on. He got very
> confused because bits kept appearing and disappearing depending on the
> circumstance. He was much happier with them being there but being
> disabled for an obvious reason.

I tend to follow that rule as well with the one exception in the EM UI
being when an uninstall occurs we only show cancel. This makes it clear
that Cancel is in reference to the will be uninstall text and using
Cancel Uninstall for the button label is just too long. I think in most
cases it is best to always show the buttons as disabled but it may make
sense for the cases where the only available action would be to update.
Definitely worth thinking about though.

Thanks,
Robert

[steve....@gmail.com]

Has the code that checks for extension updates changed? Because I've
just checked for new extensions and one of them has been looking for an
update for many minutes so far, with no signs of stopping. Should it
timeout after a while or something?

[Adam Kowalczyk]

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=308522 ?