Download Manager Mockups
Mike Beltzner
to the Download Manager for Firefox 3:
http://wiki.mozilla.org/User:Beltzner/Download_Manager
The first version of this design was very basic, and done to give
sdwilsh something to start on based on functionality required (search,
resume) by the PRD. From there I tried adding a more standard looking
find bar and eventually came to the above design.
There are several questions that I'd like feedback on, though:
* does the Find Bar metaphor work, or do we want a typeahead
filter system more like what is mocked up in the original design?
* are we showing the right amount of information in each entry?
* are we offering the right set of functionality from the primary
download manager window?
And a few things I'll be adding to the mockups and specifications:
* minimizing the dialog to the status bar instead of the task bar
* the "Show Details" information pane overlaying the download
manager like a file inspector
* how download manager entries should show up in History searches,
allowing richer search functionality
cheers,
mike
pcab...@gmail.com
> * does the Find Bar metaphor work, or do we want a typeahead
> filter system more like what is mocked up in the original design?
I am not sure on how useful a find option could be:
- download files sometimes have tricky names
> * are we showing the right amount of information in each entry?
For completed files I'd also like to see the total file size.
Sometimes downloads get corrupted and one easy way to know is by the
file's size.
Knowing how long it took for a file to download also helps. I work
with very large data sets. While on development it helps me to know
how long it takes to get a particular data set to make estimates of
general data processing and data availability I will use when on
production.
And I guess many people could benefit from: "Hey I just downloaded
Democracy", "is that large", "No, it took, let me see ... 6 minutes".
Nice.
Edward Lee
> Mike Beltzner wrote:
>> * does the Find Bar metaphor work, or do we want a typeahead
>> filter system more like what is mocked up in the original design?
>
> I am not sure on how useful a find option could be:
> - download files sometimes have tricky names
There have been bugs filed [1,2] requesting search of some kind perhaps
by filename or url.
Given a list of files, I would expect to type the starting letter to
jump to that download (like in explorer or finder). This could be done
with a typeahead but with the added ability to search not just the
starting letters.
Ed
[1] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=253768
[2] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=345673
Jesper Kristensen
> I've posted some mockups and design thoughts for revisions being made
> to the Download Manager for Firefox 3:
>
> http://wiki.mozilla.org/User:Beltzner/Download_Manager
Looks good, some thoughts:
* The find bar should look more like the FAYT bar in the bottom of the
browser window for consistency.
* The buttons on the right of each download should be more clear. A better
indication that this is actually buttons and a better indication of what they
do would be good.
* Maybe the "Details" would be small enough to fit inside the selected item
like in the Extension Manager, and the Show Details button could be removed.
* Adding something like the Download Statusbar extension would be great, so
you can monitor the download while you continue surfing (and the download
manager is hidden in the background).
Edward Lee
> * are we offering the right set of functionality from the primary
> download manager window?
Would the "Clear All" only apply only to the downloads filtered by the
"Show"?
If so, it might be useful for additional items under show in addition to..
Show: Today|Completed|All
How about also..
Canceled, Failed, Older than 1 week, Active Downloads[1], Files that
exist/don't exist[2]
Ed
[1] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=305982
[2] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=256527
Mike Beltzner
Keep it coming!
cheers,
mike
-----Original Message-----
From: Jesper Kristensen <moznew...@something.to.remove.jesperkristensen.dk>
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 20:04:29
To:dev-apps...@lists.mozilla.org
Subject: Re: Download Manager Mockups
dev-apps-firefox mailing list
dev-apps...@lists.mozilla.org
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-apps-firefox
Marco Bonardo
> filter system more like what is mocked up in the original design?
With the current mockup you have to:
* know that you can search in download manager (something should notify
the user tha doesn't know about this feature)
* do Accel F on keyboard (there is no menu item to open it)
* type what you're looking for
* press Enter or click Next/Previous
* if made a typing error return to the text field, change and reclick
With a fixed typeahead filter Bar you have to
* click in text field
* write some letter
* if made a typing error backspace and rewrite instantly
The second way could be clearly winner and every user knows about it
because it's always there.
It is a filter so it could be unified to Show and don't steal space
________________________________________________________________
| Show [ Today ] containing [ someword ] [Clear all]
> * are we showing the right amount of information in each entry?
When Paused you should also show total file size: remaining 11.8 of XX.X
When Completed you should show total file size and total time elapsed
> * are we offering the right set of functionality from the primary
> download manager window?
Where do i see if a file can be paused and resumed or not?
I'd like to know if closing the browser will cause a download to be
restarted from 0... so maybe i'll wait for it to finish...
Do you will change the pause icon based on resuming possibility?
Please also add a total speed counter on the title
(2 active, 12 minutes left, 250KB/s)
Is KB the right unit, is the download manager using KB or should it show
and use KiB?
> * the "Show Details" information pane overlaying the download
> manager like a file inspector
What about if left clicking a download expands it to a more complete
view with all the options... no other dialogs, no other windows all is
there.
Left clicking a download collapse all and expands only the clicked one.
Please also clearly state the difference between "remove from list" and
"delete" from disk" in the right click menu.
Thank you :)
Marco Bonardo
http://img338.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dmmockupmak77tb5.png
i also added a separator between the downloads as it could be difficult
in a crowded history to associate information on the right to a file
name on the left... So it's a mixture between mockup and current DM.
thx
Jesper Kristensen
> I have made a quick mockup with my ideas:
>
> http://img338.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dmmockupmak77tb5.png
>
Looks better than http://wiki.mozilla.org/User:Beltzner/Download_Manager .
* There is no need for a progress bar for finished downloads
* Source/destination should be cropped in the end, since it is the host name
that is of most interest because the file name is already in the line above
* Icons should be more clear. Is the red circle a stop or pause button? Does
the two arrows do different things? I am not sure it is possible to make
clear what the buttons are for without using text.
pcab...@gmail.com
> Where do i see if a file can be paused and resumed or not?
> I'd like to know if closing the browser will cause a download to be
> restarted from 0... so maybe i'll wait for it to finish...
> Do you will change the pause icon based on resuming possibility?
>
> Please also add a total speed counter on the title
> (2 active, 12 minutes left, 250KB/s)
>
Resume capability and total speed would be very helpful to have.
> Is KB the right unit, is the download manager using KB or should it show
> and use KiB?
Whatever we put there most people is going to read kilobyte instead of
kibibyte so I think it'd be good to support the more accurate unit.
After looking at Beltzner's and Marco's mockups I think there's a lot
that can be done with downloads but we shouldn't aim to do it all
here. Specially since Alex's Bookmarks explorer mockups feature a
Download item where I think find and filtering belong.
What if we limit the Download Manager scope to a Download Monitor
which would be more consistent with the "minimize to status bar"
idea. It would only show the last 10 completed downloads and all the
active ones. Add three action buttons: Manage/Organize | Configure |
Clear. Manage would take to the Downloads item in the Places Manager.
Configure would take to the relevant page of the Options dialog and
clear would clear the monitor.
comrade693
bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=298993) will add a FAYT to the
richlistbox widget by default.
Cheers,
Shawn Willsher
Alex Faaborg
other Web browsers, in case anyone is curios (Firefox 2, Safari 2/3,
Omniweb 5, Shiira 2, Opera 9, Maxthon 2, IE7):
http://wiki.mozilla.org/Download_Manager/UI_Comparisons
> * does the Find Bar metaphor work, or do we want a typeahead
> filter system more like what is mocked up in the original design?
It's likely that I am missing the point, but here is what I don't
understand about adding a find bar and doing a better job of storing
the user's history of downloaded files:
The default location to download files is the desktop, so that is
where the vast majority of files are going to end up. Most users
have very cluttered desktops, but even the most cluttered desktops
don't contain every file the user has ever downloaded. After
downloading a file, the user is likely to either 1) delete it, 2)
move it to another, more organized location on their hard drive.
So, if the vast majority of files are deleted or moved after
downloading, what is the point of searching for them in the download
manager? We will display the correct result, but it will no longer
map to an existing file.
It seems like searching for downloaded files is really the job of
Spotlight and Windows Instant Search. Don't users view the download
manager as simply a cleaner interface than a stack of pop-up windows,
as opposed to a way to access anything they have ever downloaded?
It's true that a lot of users have thousands of items listed in their
download manager, but I thought this was because they have no
motivation to click the "clear all" button, as opposed to actually
being interested in accessing the information in this list later.
When we download to the correct location on each platform (downloads
stack in 10.5, and the Downloads folder in Vista), there will be more
of a chance that the user won't move or delete the downloaded files,
increasing the potential usefulness of a download manager search.
But even in this case, I would anticipate users will usually move the
files after download.
> * are we showing the right amount of information in each entry?
> * are we offering the right set of functionality from the primary
> download manager window?
* I like the small icons a lot better than the hyperlinks (which I am
pretty sure are not used anywhere else in the Firefox UI, except for
actual hyperlinks in the update dialogs).
*Have we thought previously why users would be motivated to pause
individual downloads vs. all downloads? Should we have global controls?
*I think Safari and Shiira do a better job of representing the time
remaining. The dash makes it easier to spot the time (Firefox 2,
Safari/Shiira, Firefox 3 mockup):
4.7 of 22.3 at 449 KB/sec; 00:40 remain
4.7 of 22.3 (426 KB/sec) - 40 seconds remaining
40 seconds left, 4.7 of 12.1 MB (426 KB/sec)
I like that we are listing the time first in the mockup, but I would
add the dash as well:
40 seconds left - 4.7 of 12.1 MB (426 KB/sec)
I also like how Safari uses grey text to reduce the overall visual
complexity of the dialog.
*A longer status bar is going to make it look like files are
downloading faster, because there is more visual feedback. If we
shorten the status bar in the new download manager, users could
potential think that Firefox 3 feels "slower" than Firefox 2.
* Will the pause/stop button change based on the server supporting
resume? For consistency we probably want one button, but we are
referring to it as Pause, and it looks like stop. Maybe the button
is always called (and looks like) stop, and sometimes the progress
remains and sometimes it doesn't?
* Does "Clear All" delete the items from history, or only remove them
from the UI?
* The show details button is going to collide with the "Show in
Finder" button on the Mac. We might need a different icon to reduce
confusion.
> * minimizing the dialog to the status bar instead of the task bar
Users are going to be familiar with this being a separate window (and
not a dialog), so taking it out of the task bar could initially cause
some confusion. I am all for the elimination of dialog boxes, but if
we create a UI for minimizing windows (as opposed to dialogs that are
physically attached to our window, like in the notification redesign
mockups I was working on) then we are essentially inventing a new
task bar, which I think does more harm than good. Minimizing the
dialog to the status bar sounds like we are heading towards a MDI app.
> * the "Show Details" information pane overlaying the download
> manager like a file inspector
Sound good, I also like the mockup where it expands the entry in place.
> * how download manager entries should show up in History searches,
> allowing richer search functionality
What do you think of Deb's proposal, where downloads show up along
with pages visited in history, but they have a download icon?
Cheers,
-Alex
Myk Melez
> So, if the vast majority of files are deleted or moved after
> downloading, what is the point of searching for them in the download
> manager? We will display the correct result, but it will no longer map
> to an existing file.
Might it be possible to create a hard link to the file that we can use
to find it even if the user moves it? This technique wouldn't work for
deleted files, but it should work for moved ones.
-myk
John Bird
I recommend using pause and play button symbols - everyone sees these on
VCRs, Tape players, YouTube and Media player etc and knows immediately what
they are. A Green right arrow play button and a || yellow pause button.
For cancel you could have a square Stop button, if needed. Again everyone
knows the significance of these - no text needed.
On a finished download button the Play button means then Open/Run....so
maybe changing colour is sensible. Or you could use a Red play button for
download restart (Recording) and Green play button for Open (Play)....
It also would match the green Arrow "Go" button on the Firefox Location bar,
so a nice little uniformity.
(The circle button shown in mockups looks like the refresh button on the
main Firefox Toolbar and implies start again from the beginning!)
John
Archaeopteryx
> The default location to download files is the desktop, so that is where
> the vast majority of files are going to end up. Most users have very
> cluttered desktops, but even the most cluttered desktops don't contain
> every file the user has ever downloaded. After downloading a file, the
> user is likely to either 1) delete it, 2) move it to another, more
> organized location on their hard drive.
he use it? Specifying the location to store the file during download
sounds more efficient, so moving should be a less problem.
> * I like the small icons a lot better than the hyperlinks (which I am
> pretty sure are not used anywhere else in the Firefox UI, except for
> actual hyperlinks in the update dialogs).
Hyperlinks have the advantage that their functionality does not have to
be discovered by hovering.
> *Have we thought previously why users would be motivated to pause
> individual downloads vs. all downloads? Should we have global controls?
Sounds pretty helpful, maybe a "Give this download priority" to offer
the complete bandwidth for finishing a user-selected download would be
helpful, too.
> *A longer status bar is going to make it look like files are downloading
> faster, because there is more visual feedback. If we shorten the status
> bar in the new download manager, users could potential think that
> Firefox 3 feels "slower" than Firefox 2.
As proposed with the remaining time at first place, this should not happen.
> Users are going to be familiar with this being a separate window (and
> not a dialog), so taking it out of the task bar could initially cause
> some confusion. I am all for the elimination of dialog boxes, but if we
> create a UI for minimizing windows (as opposed to dialogs that are
> physically attached to our window, like in the notification redesign
> mockups I was working on) then we are essentially inventing a new task
> bar, which I think does more harm than good. Minimizing the dialog to
> the status bar sounds like we are heading towards a MDI app.
Adding it to an existing window would make life easier because you could
continue to browse and always see which files already have finished and
the task bar would have more space.
Mike Connor
On 18-Jun-07, at 8:45 PM, Alex Faaborg wrote:
> The default location to download files is the desktop, so that is
> where the vast majority of files are going to end up. Most users
> have very cluttered desktops, but even the most cluttered desktops
> don't contain every file the user has ever downloaded. After
> downloading a file, the user is likely to either 1) delete it, 2)
> move it to another, more organized location on their hard drive.
Vista has a Downloads folder that I think we use by default, I'd love
to find a better default on other platforms (XP may/may not have such
a folder, I don't remember if that was something MSN or something
created)
I've contemplated whether we want to create a Firefox Downloads
folder on the desktop in the absence of another option, since the
clutter sucks.
> So, if the vast majority of files are deleted or moved after
> downloading, what is the point of searching for them in the download
> manager? We will display the correct result, but it will no longer
> map to an existing file.
If we can't track where the file gets moved, maybe purge the download
if the file's gone?
> It seems like searching for downloaded files is really the job of
> Spotlight and Windows Instant Search. Don't users view the download
> manager as simply a cleaner interface than a stack of pop-up windows,
> as opposed to a way to access anything they have ever downloaded?
> It's true that a lot of users have thousands of items listed in their
> download manager, but I thought this was because they have no
> motivation to click the "clear all" button, as opposed to actually
> being interested in accessing the information in this list later.
Windows search sucks, especially on XP (which will be our majority
platform when Fx3 is expected to ship, at current user trends).
Spotlight is better, but we're not just building a Vista/Tiger
browser here. If there's a viable search that includes bits like
referrer (i.e. where you clicked to get the download) it should be
pretty usable on all platforms. We should still record the
appropriate metadata on the OS level so Spotlight and Vista search
can find stuff that way as well, but for XP/Linux we want a better
experience still.
> When we download to the correct location on each platform (downloads
> stack in 10.5, and the Downloads folder in Vista), there will be more
> of a chance that the user won't move or delete the downloaded files,
> increasing the potential usefulness of a download manager search.
> But even in this case, I would anticipate users will usually move the
> files after download.
I have a Downloads folder that I rarely move things out of, with the
exception being the handful of things (music, video clips) that I
actually organize a little.
>> * are we showing the right amount of information in each entry?
>> * are we offering the right set of functionality from the primary
>> download manager window?
>
> * I like the small icons a lot better than the hyperlinks (which I am
> pretty sure are not used anywhere else in the Firefox UI, except for
> actual hyperlinks in the update dialogs).
Its one of the things I wanted to kill for a long long time. ;)
> *Have we thought previously why users would be motivated to pause
> individual downloads vs. all downloads? Should we have global
> controls?
Commonly, its because I want the bandwidth to flow to another
download when I'm on a slow connection. Global controls feel kinda
heavy since I don't think we'll have more than 2-3 downloads in
progress at any given time.
> *I think Safari and Shiira do a better job of representing the time
> remaining. The dash makes it easier to spot the time (Firefox 2,
> Safari/Shiira, Firefox 3 mockup):
>
> 4.7 of 22.3 at 449 KB/sec; 00:40 remain
> 4.7 of 22.3 (426 KB/sec) - 40 seconds remaining
> 40 seconds left, 4.7 of 12.1 MB (426 KB/sec)
>
> I like that we are listing the time first in the mockup, but I would
> add the dash as well:
>
> 40 seconds left - 4.7 of 12.1 MB (426 KB/sec)
Yeah, that's good, I like that.
> *A longer status bar is going to make it look like files are
> downloading faster, because there is more visual feedback. If we
> shorten the status bar in the new download manager, users could
> potential think that Firefox 3 feels "slower" than Firefox 2.
Worth seeing what the users think, but I'm not sure I agree with the
logic.
> * Will the pause/stop button change based on the server supporting
> resume? For consistency we probably want one button, but we are
> referring to it as Pause, and it looks like stop. Maybe the button
> is always called (and looks like) stop, and sometimes the progress
> remains and sometimes it doesn't?
Worth doing, we don't do that now, not sure any browsers do, but we
should if we can.
> * Does "Clear All" delete the items from history, or only remove them
> from the UI?
In the past its deleted the items from the download history, so I
think we're not likely to change that.
> * The show details button is going to collide with the "Show in
> Finder" button on the Mac. We might need a different icon to reduce
> confusion.
The icons were what were lying around, remember? :)
>> * minimizing the dialog to the status bar instead of the task bar
>
> Users are going to be familiar with this being a separate window (and
> not a dialog), so taking it out of the task bar could initially cause
> some confusion. I am all for the elimination of dialog boxes, but if
> we create a UI for minimizing windows (as opposed to dialogs that are
> physically attached to our window, like in the notification redesign
> mockups I was working on) then we are essentially inventing a new
> task bar, which I think does more harm than good. Minimizing the
> dialog to the status bar sounds like we are heading towards a MDI app.
Yeah, I think I agree with this comment. I like the idea of
displaying dl status in the main window, but this interaction feels
fuzzy to me.
>> * how download manager entries should show up in History searches,
>> allowing richer search functionality
>
> What do you think of Deb's proposal, where downloads show up along
> with pages visited in history, but they have a download icon?
Worth exporing, go mozStorage!
-- Mike
Marco Bonardo
i have a new suggestion for resumable download, you could show a
"broken" download bar for non-resumable, see in the mockup here
http://img467.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dmmockupmak772vt9.png
I also think that if you go for the filter / search, the clean up button
should go away (it's a non sense, what is searching about if i
constantly clear the list and mantain it with only 2 or 3 items).
Downloads should then only be cleaned up when cleaning personal
(privacy) data, so they are always searchable and available in Places
(Bookmark) Organizer.
So you could put Show [Today|Yesterday|This month|All] downloads, and if
a user want to clean up download history he goes to Clear Private Data.
Gervase Markham
> Mike Beltzner wrote:
>> * are we offering the right set of functionality from the primary
>> download manager window?
>
> Would the "Clear All" only apply only to the downloads filtered by the
> "Show"?
If it does, it should be called "Clear These".
Gerv
Gervase Markham
> Where do i see if a file can be paused and resumed or not?
Well, the pause icon should appear if it can be, and not if it can't :-)
Of course, I don't know if that's technically possible.
> Please also add a total speed counter on the title
> (2 active, 12 minutes left, 250KB/s)
Hmm, seems a bit geeky.
> Is KB the right unit, is the download manager using KB or should it show
> and use KiB?
Now my geekometer needle is pegged in the red. :-)
Gerv
Gervase Markham
> For completed files I'd also like to see the total file size.
> Sometimes downloads get corrupted and one easy way to know is by the
> file's size.
I really don't think this should be in primary UI. In order for it to be
useful for what you want, we'd need:
Size: 1043563231 bytes.
which is ultra-geeky. Also, it doesn't cover very many cases of file
corruption. If we want to detect that better, let's implement
Content-MD5 header support.
> Knowing how long it took for a file to download also helps. I work
> with very large data sets. While on development it helps me to know
> how long it takes to get a particular data set to make estimates of
> general data processing and data availability I will use when on
> production.
That seems fair enough.
> And I guess many people could benefit from: "Hey I just downloaded
> Democracy", "is that large", "No, it took, let me see ... 6 minutes".
> Nice.
Yeah, I like this use case.
Gerv
Gervase Markham
> I've posted some mockups and design thoughts for revisions being made
> to the Download Manager for Firefox 3:
>
> http://wiki.mozilla.org/User:Beltzner/Download_Manager
>
> The first version of this design was very basic, and done to give
> sdwilsh something to start on based on functionality required (search,
> resume) by the PRD. From there I tried adding a more standard looking
> find bar and eventually came to the above design.
>
> There are several questions that I'd like feedback on, though:
>
> * does the Find Bar metaphor work, or do we want a typeahead
> filter system more like what is mocked up in the original design?
I'd suggest that if the Download Manager needs a Find bar, we've failed.
To my mind, you download files and you do something with them. So,
unless the file is auto-launched, there'll be a high probability that
the user will need to find recently-downloaded files, but that drops off
rapidly for older ones.
We should try and produce a Download Manager which doesn't need searching.
And if we do have search, we should allow people to search by the name
of the site (and perhaps the title of the source page and the link text)
as well as the file.
> * are we showing the right amount of information in each entry?
> * are we offering the right set of functionality from the primary
> download manager window?
>
> And a few things I'll be adding to the mockups and specifications:
>
> * minimizing the dialog to the status bar instead of the task bar
> * the "Show Details" information pane overlaying the download
> manager like a file inspector
> * how download manager entries should show up in History searches,
> allowing richer search functionality
We seem to be using a red "Stop" button when we mean "Pause" (or is that
really Stop?), and a grey Reload button when we mean "Play/Resume". This
seems like a fine opportunity for the standard VCR controls.
Instead of "Show: Today", how about collapsible grouping headings, like
in history or in Thunderbird (when you turn them on) for messages? That
would make it much easier to step back in time, and people might
remember better _when_ they downloaded something rather than what it was
called.
Also, I personally _love_ Download Statusbar. I find it much easier to
use than the Manager window. Is there any possibility that something
like that might make it into the product?
Gerv
John Wilcock
> Also, I personally _love_ Download Statusbar. I find it much easier to
> use than the Manager window. Is there any possibility that something
> like that might make it into the product?
Seconded.
Or alternatively, a download manager designed for use in a sidebar.
Having it as a separate window has always seemed rather clunky to me
when everything else is in tabs.
John.
--
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Jesper Kristensen
> I also think that if you go for the filter / search, the clean up button
> should go away (it's a non sense, what is searching about if i
> constantly clear the list and mantain it with only 2 or 3 items).
> Downloads should then only be cleaned up when cleaning personal
> (privacy) data, so they are always searchable and available in Places
> (Bookmark) Organizer.
If you do that, items should have a life time that match history life time.
Mike Connor
On 19-Jun-07, at 4:55 AM, Marco Bonardo wrote:
> I have updated my mockup, cleaned up, changed icons, change units
> to KiBs.
We're not using KiBs in the UI, full stop. We wontfixed it a long
time ago, in an over my dead body kind of way. :)
> i have a new suggestion for resumable download, you could show a
> "broken" download bar for non-resumable, see in the mockup here
That'll be weird since we use native themed progressmeters...
> I also think that if you go for the filter / search, the clean up
> button
> should go away (it's a non sense, what is searching about if i
> constantly clear the list and mantain it with only 2 or 3 items).
I agree, fwiw, it was on my list of things to drop.
> Downloads should then only be cleaned up when cleaning personal
> (privacy) data, so they are always searchable and available in Places
> (Bookmark) Organizer.
Ideally, we'd just support the same expiry as history (which is
proposed to be 180 days in Fx3, now that the infrastructure won't
melt with that much data).
If we can search on referrer in the Places Organizer, as has been
proposed, users could clear from there as well. Some fun hoops to
jump through on the implementation, but probably fits the bill.
-- Mike
Marco Bonardo
> ago, in an over my dead body kind of way. :)
Sorry, didn't know, i was thinking that Firefox was all about standards,
so i thought of a standard measure unit...
>> i have a new suggestion for resumable download, you could show a
>> "broken" download bar for non-resumable, see in the mockup here
>
> That'll be weird since we use native themed progressmeters...
I see the point, my purpose was because i was thinking of something as a
"broken" download, so it was a rather obvious choice a broken progress bar.
So i am for a Pause icon for resumable and a Stop icon for non-resumable.
Axel Hecht
>> We're not using KiBs in the UI, full stop. We wontfixed it a long
>> time ago, in an over my dead body kind of way. :)
>
> Sorry, didn't know, i was thinking that Firefox was all about standards,
> so i thought of a standard measure unit...
Hey, those are US guys, they build browsers in inches. ;-)
Axel
gri...@gmail.com
think the DL manager should look like:
* buttons look at least a little more like buttons
* the progress meter is bigger, so it better demonstrate the download
* there are all sort of geekness and space to extension developers add
what they want at the side of the download name
* there is info on the source and the destination, but it's hidden
from regular user at first, so when my mom go to download something
from http://www.xyz.com and it delivery the file from http://files.xyz.com
she still runs the file instead of calling me.
Hope you guys like, hope this is usefull for something
Marcelo
jaco...@trashymail.com
> Gervase Markham wrote:
> > Also, I personally _love_ Download Statusbar. I find it much easier to
> > use than the Manager window. Is there any possibility that something
> > like that might make it into the product?
>
> Seconded.
I would vote against including download statusbar (ok so I prob don't
have a vote). I have tried the extension and don't think it's for
everyone. I don't need yet another bar across my screen taking up
space from the webpage area. There are already too many! Title bar,
menu bar, navigation bar, bookmarks bar, tab bar, regular status
bar.
I also looked at the mockups linked from the wiki (by dria?) Not sure
download information in the regular status bar would worth the clutter
it would introduce. When I want to see download status, I can look at
the title of the download window in the taskbar.
I happy with the window and I like many of the ideas here for
improving it.
Ant Bryan
> What do you think of Deb's proposal, where downloads show up along with
> pages visited in history, but they have a download icon?
I would find that to be an extremely convenient time saver.
--
(( Anthony Bryan ... Metalink [ http://www.metalinker.org ]
)) Easier, More Reliable, and Automatically Repairable Downloads
Tim Keenan
rather than the time remaining. Time remaining can bounce around pretty
wildly. I think the way Firefox 2 shows the percentage is more helpful.
Also, what do we display when there's more than one active download?
This (2 active, 59%, 250 KB/s) sounds good.
Minimizing to the status bar seems a little confusing. I'm coming at
this from an accessibility perspective, and I'm wondering how a user
using a screen-reader would know it's there. Since the status bar can't
be navigated via the keyboard, there would be no way for a screen reader
or magnifier user to get status info without opening the window. .
This isn't insurmountable--there are ways of telling a screen-reader to
read specific segments of the screen at the pres of a key, but we're
trying to minimize that kind of customization. I'm assuming the
Download Manager would still show up in the Tools menu?
-Tim
Mike Beltzner wrote:
> I've posted some mockups and design thoughts for revisions being made
> to the Download Manager for Firefox 3:
>
> http://wiki.mozilla.org/User:Beltzner/Download_Manager
>
> The first version of this design was very basic, and done to give
> sdwilsh something to start on based on functionality required (search,
> resume) by the PRD. From there I tried adding a more standard looking
> find bar and eventually came to the above design.
>
> There are several questions that I'd like feedback on, though:
>
> * does the Find Bar metaphor work, or do we want a typeahead
> filter system more like what is mocked up in the original design?
> * are we showing the right amount of information in each entry?
> * are we offering the right set of functionality from the primary
> download manager window?
>
> And a few things I'll be adding to the mockups and specifications:
>
> * minimizing the dialog to the status bar instead of the task bar
> * the "Show Details" information pane overlaying the download
> manager like a file inspector
> * how download manager entries should show up in History searches,
> allowing richer search functionality
>
> cheers,
> mike
>
John Bird
Pause and Play buttons are very obvious in what they mean.
I presume that the folder icon button with the yellow warning triangle means
"open/run". That works fine if it means that. If it means something else
then a different design is needed!
I don't know what the broken bar on the download graph means, so I bet most
others won't either. I guess it means that either an aborted download can
be resumed from where it got up to, or that it can't. Or that the download
is currently broken... So I doesn't tell me anything clear!
John
Deb Richardson
* I agree with Mconnor regarding pause/resume on individual items -- I'll pause some so others can have the extra bandwidth and download more quickly. On the other hand, having a global "Pause All/Resume All" could be handy for those (frequent) times I'm part-way through a batch of downloads but need to pack up my machine quickly and leave.
* Showing total size and total time on completed downloads is a good idea.
* Should we have a way to go directly from the Download Manager to the Download History part of the Places Organizer[1] (assuming we're going to have such a thing)? Maybe a button or something?
* Find/Search - It strikes me that the list of downloads is, essentially, a shorthand version of "Download History". If we're going to have a Find/Search facility in the Download Manager, I would think that it should mirror the History search. That said, I'm not sure it's strictly necessary in this window if we provide a quick way to get to the Download History part of the Places organizer.
* VCR Buttons - I wholeheartedly agree with the use of VCR-style play/pause/stop buttons here. That said, are those more-or-less universal, or would there be localization issues with these symbols?
* Magnifying Glass - Is the magnifying glass a common symbol for "view details"? In OS X it means "Search" really, as the icon for the Spotlight facility.
* File Details - Rather than expanding the item in the Download Manager list, perhaps that button could open the Places Organizer with that item highlighted in the Download History list and the extra info shown in the right-hand panel. Alternately, we could have a right-hand panel in the Download Manager that mimics the Places panel.
[1] - http://wiki.mozilla.org/Places:User_Interface/Organizer/i1
Alex Faaborg
> more quickly.
This makes sense if we are the only application downloading, but what
if you want to give all your bandwidth to iTunes, or Democracy while
downloading podcasts, or to some other app? I think we should
considering adding a global pause button, but the fact that not every
server supports download resume could make the UI tricky.
> * Should we have a way to go directly from the Download Manager to
> the Download History part of the Places Organizer[1] (assuming
> we're going to have such a thing)? Maybe a button or something?
I think this makes more sense than a "Today|Completed|All", because
the "complete" and "all" lists are going to be really long, and is
worth having a larger window designed to show a lot of items
(initially set to list view vs. rich list view, etc.)
Perhaps the button says "Previous Downloads"? I initially thought
"All downloads," but that might lead the user to believe that Firefox
is downloading other stuff that for some reason isn't listed in the
download manager.
> * Magnifying Glass - Is the magnifying glass a common symbol for
> "view details"? In OS X it means "Search" really, as the icon for
> the Spotlight facility.
I think the right icon to use might be the little "i" with a circle
around it, which appears in iTunes in the description fields.
-Alex
Justin Dolske
>> We're not using KiBs in the UI, full stop. We wontfixed it a long
>> time ago, in an over my dead body kind of way. :)
>
> Sorry, didn't know, i was thinking that Firefox was all about standards,
> so i thought of a standard measure unit...
What, "kilo", "bytes", and "seconds" are non-standard now? Did I miss a
switch to hectonibbles per fortnight?
Justin
Gervase Markham
> Some quick notes, having read through the whole thread:
>
> * I agree with Mconnor regarding pause/resume on individual items --
> I'll pause some so others can have the extra bandwidth and download
> more quickly. On the other hand, having a global "Pause All/Resume
> All" could be handy for those (frequent) times I'm part-way through a
> batch of downloads but need to pack up my machine quickly and leave.
For extra points, on those platforms where we can find out (e.g. Linux
with hal and dbus) we should pause all downloads when we go offline.
> * VCR Buttons - I wholeheartedly agree with the use of VCR-style
> play/pause/stop buttons here. That said, are those more-or-less
> universal, or would there be localization issues with these symbols?
I've never heard it argued that they aren't universal.
> * Magnifying Glass - Is the magnifying glass a common symbol for
> "view details"? In OS X it means "Search" really, as the icon for
> the Spotlight facility.
Good point; I would expect a twisty.
Gerv
Gervase Markham
> This makes sense if we are the only application downloading, but what if
> you want to give all your bandwidth to iTunes, or Democracy while
> downloading podcasts, or to some other app? I think we should
> considering adding a global pause button, but the fact that not every
> server supports download resume could make the UI tricky.
I thought we worked around that by throttling the download way back to
like 1 byte per second?
> I think the right icon to use might be the little "i" with a circle
> around it, which appears in iTunes in the description fields.
Never seen that. What's wrong with a twisty?
Gerv
kamasu...@gmail.com
It was just "kilo" that was called into question, which is only
standard in certain context. The IEC made "kibi" the standard for the
binary multiple 2^10, while "kilo" is the decimal multiple 10^3. See
http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html for more information.
Marco Bonardo
>> around it, which appears in iTunes in the description fields.
>
> Never seen that. What's wrong with a twisty?
>
> Gerv
If you have to choos an icon the "circle i" is better than something
that remembers search
But notice that if you do inline expansion of the downloaded item,
showing more infos in place, you solve the icon problem cause no icon
and no further window is required
many users already complain about the download manager itself is a
separate window instead of a tab or a sidebar, so adding a new download
information window feels like going to the wrong way. You will finish
with browser windows -> download manager window -> download item infos
window.
Michael Lefevre
> Alex Faaborg wrote:
>> This makes sense if we are the only application downloading, but what if
>> you want to give all your bandwidth to iTunes, or Democracy while
>> downloading podcasts, or to some other app? I think we should
>> considering adding a global pause button, but the fact that not every
>> server supports download resume could make the UI tricky.
>
> I thought we worked around that by throttling the download way back to
> like 1 byte per second?
I'm not sure I'm keeping up with all of this discussion, but using that as
a workaround may be confusing. It works fine for the use case above, but
what happens if someone uses the global pause because they are going to
shut off their laptop for a few minutes or something. They will have the
impression that the download is paused and can be resumed, but in fact it
will die if the 1 byte per second doesn't keep going. Would you then have
a dialog on trying to close Firefox that warns that the download will die,
or what?
--
Michael
John Bird
Suggestions:
Does red X mean cancel download, or remove from history list, or delete from
disk, or an error?
A stop button may be better there (eg a blue square in a button, universal
on VCR' etc)
You could have a hint balloon come up to explain what it does...
VCR buttons are universal - also on tape recorders, Media players, and video
sites such as YouTube. No language required, you can add hint ballons...
For the information button, how about the international information sign...
Blue "i" in a white circle, or a Question mark in a circle (also
international symbol according to Aiga).
http://uploaded.fresh.co.il/2004/05/16/742626.jpg
http://www.aiga.org/content.cfm/symbol-signs
John
Gervase Markham
> It was just "kilo" that was called into question, which is only
> standard in certain context. The IEC made "kibi" the standard for the
> binary multiple 2^10, while "kilo" is the decimal multiple 10^3. See
> http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html for more information.
The difference between the two is pretty much irrelevant for the
purposes here, and end users confronted with KiB will just go "Huh?".
Gerv
Gervase Markham
> I'm not sure I'm keeping up with all of this discussion, but using that as
> a workaround may be confusing. It works fine for the use case above, but
> what happens if someone uses the global pause because they are going to
> shut off their laptop for a few minutes or something. They will have the
> impression that the download is paused and can be resumed, but in fact it
> will die if the 1 byte per second doesn't keep going. Would you then have
> a dialog on trying to close Firefox that warns that the download will die,
> or what?
I don't think Pause ever guarantees Resume will work, just as starting a
download doesn't guarantee it'll finish without error. As long as we
report the error, that's fine.
Gerv
Michael Lefevre
I didn't say anything about guarantees. I think there's a difference
between not being able to guarantee something, and allowing the user to
take an action which is very likely to break something.
According to the PRD, the goal here is to "Support mobile users, dial-up
users and large file downloaders". The slow-instead-of-pause feature does
not help mobile users or dial-up users. For people that want to pause
things because they are disconnecting, I think it would be better to just
say "you can't pause this", rather than giving them the impression they
are pausing a download which the browser knows will fail as soon as they
are disconnected.
The 1-byte-per-second is useful for the case of someone on a permanent
connection who is download many large files and wants to prioritise them,
but that's going to be a small number of people (the number of people that
do that kind of downloading is a minority anyway, and some of them will
use an external download managed anyway)
--
Michael
Peter Lairo
It's not really that difficult to grok (KiBi = KiloBinary) - and users
learned to double-click too.
BTW: I'm still waiting for a *space* between the number and the unit and
a *thousands separator* in Thunderbird's "Size" column (2158427KB ->
2,158,427 KB). *Much* easier to read.
*Space*
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=302143
*thousands separators*
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=252039
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=108689
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=58610
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=74716
*SI units*
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=65710
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=106618#c16
--
Regards,
Peter Lairo
The browser you can trust: http://www.GetFirefox.com
Reclaim Your Inbox: http://www.GetThunderbird.com
Michael Lefevre
> Gervase Markham on 22.06.2007 12:05 wrote:
>> The difference between the two is pretty much irrelevant for the
>> purposes here, and end users confronted with KiB will just go "Huh?".
>
> It's not really that difficult to grok (KiBi = KiloBinary) - and users
> learned to double-click too.
It may be a bit difficult to grok if you don't know the general
significance of the "kilo" prefix and also know what binary means. That
probably covers most people, especially places that aren't using metric.
And actually lots of users haven't learned the distinction between single
and double clicks.
Firefox is aiming to cater to as wide an audience as possible, not the few
that want to learn techie stuff along the way... it might not be "that"
difficult, but being difficult at all is generally a bad thing.
> BTW: I'm still waiting for a *space* between the number and the unit and
> a *thousands separator* in Thunderbird [...]
[...]
That's probably a topic for another thread and another group.
--
Michael
Greg Campbell
> On 2007-06-27, Peter Lairo <Pe...@NOSPAMLairo.com> wrote:
>
> It may be a bit difficult to grok if you don't know the general
> significance of the "kilo" prefix and also know what binary means.
> That probably covers most people, especially places that aren't using
> metric.
>
> And actually lots of users haven't learned the distinction between
> single and double clicks.
Actually, I'd say most users who have this low level of knowledge would
never pay attention to the units anyway. It's either "wow, that
downloaded fast" or "boy, this is taking forever to download; must be
big; I'll cancel it 'cause I don't have the time to wait."
Users with a slightly higher level of knowledge would probably figure
out quickly that KiB and KB (more properly: kB) are functionally
identical for their purposes. That is, if they even noticed the little
"i" between the "K" and "B."
Users who actually know what these prefixes mean might appreciate the
accuracy. Or they might laugh that anyone cared to fix such a nitpicky
non-issue.
One comment I see in the bugs is how stupid the names "kibibyte" and
"gibibyte" are. That's the dumbest reason to reject them I can fathom.
Sure they are stupid. But unless I'm talking to a technical group, I
still pronounce KiB "kilobyte."
Greg
Shawn Wilsher
> Users with a slightly higher level of knowledge would probably figure
> out quickly that KiB and KB (more properly: kB) are functionally
> identical for their purposes. That is, if they even noticed the little
> "i" between the "K" and "B."
My argument against this is a simple question:
What do most operating systems do?
Cheers,
Shawn Wilsher
Andrew Smith
> pcab...@gmail.com wrote:
>> For completed files I'd also like to see the total file size.
>> Sometimes downloads get corrupted and one easy way to know is by the
>> file's size.
>
> I really don't think this should be in primary UI. In order for it to be
> useful for what you want, we'd need:
>
> Size: 1043563231 bytes.
>
> which is ultra-geeky. Also, it doesn't cover very many cases of file
> corruption. If we want to detect that better, let's implement
> Content-MD5 header support.
>
I think pcabellor is thinking of the size as it's normally displayed.
Not to count the bytes (noone will do that anyway), but to see whether
it's 5K instead of 500M.
For example what happens to me sometimes is I do a right-click/save as
and later find that what I saved was a 404 page. This would be more
readily obvious if in the download manager it said how big the file was.
I'm not sure this feature is needed, the use case is rather weak - if
you download a file you'll most likely end up using it in a file manager
before examining the download history, but it wouldn't bother me if it
didn't take space from more valueble info such as the filename (it
doesn't in the mockups).
>> And I guess many people could benefit from: "Hey I just downloaded
>> Democracy", "is that large", "No, it took, let me see ... 6 minutes".
>> Nice.
>
> Yeah, I like this use case.
>
Isn't this a backwards way of displaying the file size? :)
Andrew
pcab...@gmail.com
> Gervase Markham a écrit :> pcabel...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> For completed files I'd also like to see the total file size.
> >> Sometimes downloads get corrupted and one easy way to know is by the
> >> file's size.
>
> > I really don't think this should be in primary UI. In order for it to be
> > useful for what you want, we'd need:
>
> > Size: 1043563231 bytes.
>
> > which is ultra-geeky. Also, it doesn't cover very many cases of file
> > corruption. If we want to detect that better, let's implement
> > Content-MD5 header support.
>
> I think pcabellor is thinking of the size as it's normally displayed.
> Not to count the bytes (noone will do that anyway), but to see whether
> it's 5K instead of 500M.
Right. I thought it was obvious. Showing up to 2 decimals for large
units should be enough: for example 850KB (.5KB approximation) would
be enough, but it would be necessary to show 45.5 MB (50KB
approximation) or 3.45GB (5MB approximation) to keep the displayed
information relevant.
> I'm not sure this feature is needed, the use case is rather weak - if
> you download a file you'll most likely end up using it in a file manager
> before examining the download history, but it wouldn't bother me if it
> didn't take space from more valueble info such as the filename (it
> doesn't in the mockups).
Are there any numbers regarding this? Personally I tend to open
everything double clicking the file in the download manager and I find
it the easiest way to guide a user to reach a downloaded file when
providing support.
>
> >> And I guess many people could benefit from: "Hey I just downloaded
> >> Democracy", "is that large", "No, it took, let me see ... 6 minutes".
> >> Nice.
>
> > Yeah, I like this use case.
>
> Isn't this a backwards way of displaying the file size? :)
No. It's one thing to tell someone to download a 5MB file than tell
him to start a 4 minutes download for example. I don't think a large
percentage has a clear idea of what a 5 MB download is, while time
everybody understands.
Percy
p3ngwin
> I've posted some mockups and design thoughts for revisions being made
> to the Download Manager for Firefox 3:
>
> http://wiki.mozilla.org/User:Beltzner/Download_Manager
>
> The first version of this design was very basic, and done to give
> sdwilsh something to start on based on functionality required (search,
> resume) by the PRD. From there I tried adding a more standard looking
> find bar and eventually came to the above design.
>
> There are several questions that I'd like feedback on, though:
>
> * does the Find Bar metaphor work, or do we want a typeahead
> filter system more like what is mocked up in the original design?
> * are we showing the right amount of information in each entry?
> * are we offering the right set of functionality from the primary
> download manager window?
>
> And a few things I'll be adding to the mockups and specifications:
>
> * minimizing the dialog to the status bar instead of the task bar
> * the "Show Details" information pane overlaying the download
> manager like a file inspector
> * how download manager entries should show up in History searches,
> allowing richer search functionality
>
> cheers,
> mike
>
here is my contribution with descriptive text.
i address many little nuances and explain why i believe they are good ideas.
Robert Kaiser
> here is my contribution with descriptive text.
> i address many little nuances and explain why i believe they are good
> ideas.
>
> http://www.imagehosting.com/out.php/i935205_finalDMi301.png
IMHO, there are quite a few good ideas and interesting comments there,
but it's usually better to put the text up as a real text, either on a
web page that includes the mockup image, or here in the newsgroup.
Still, definitely some idea to think about in your mockup - I hope the
relevant Firefox devs also spot those :)
Robert Kaiser
p3ngwin
when i made it, had so many thoughts to put down and started writing on
the pic, then got carried away.
i'll chop the pic down to just the download manager, and do the text in
a post like this.
i study linguistics and Neuro Linguistic Programming so i thought i
would lend a hand.