Re: "Heads Up Display" naming

[Mike Shaver]

On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 8:29 AM, Robert Kaiser <ka...@kairo.at> wrote:
> The naming is irritating though - as much as it might sound cool for the
> first moment, as confusing it is to users, as with this not being actually
> overhead (unless you have some very strange and unusual screen setup at
> home), it's unclear what a "Heads Up Display" should be in a browser -
> something like "Development Console" would surely not sound as cool at a
> first glance, but convey much better what it's meant to be.

Yeah, and unlike "real" HUDs it isn't overlaid on the content in a way
that lets you still look at the content, like a projection on a window
would be. Also, it's interactive, which HUDs aren't. I think "Page
Console" or similar would be better, as you suggest, and not just for
localization purposes!

I thought there was a bug about the naming, but I couldn't find it, so
I could have been dreaming, like that time with the dragons and the
golf cart.

Mike

[David Dahl]

The naming was discussed and Heads Up Display was kept from the original prototype. At that time we were implementing it with a panel, that with some time and effort - would truly behave like a proper Heads Up Display. I think we were bitten by bug 130078 here, as I had a lot of trouble making the HUD as a panel work at all.

I think with the issues around localization, it probably makes sense to revisit naming. The main focus should be making it sexy, that's right I said it a "sexy" developer console.

David

Mike
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[Ehsan Akhgari]

Well, the issue with the naming is not whether we actually display is
as a real HUD or not. Names such as HUD do not have any equivalent
phrase in some languages. I know this for a fact about Persian, and I
_think_ this is what Kairo meant for German as well. To make things
worse, it might be extremely difficult to come up with a "sexy" name,
because the mere notion of a "sexy" name is culture-dependent, and is
not expressible in every culture/language.

--
Ehsan
<http://ehsanakhgari.org/>

[David Dahl]

Oh I'm sorry, I do not care what the name is, I meant the feature / functionality.

[Mike Shaver]

On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 12:46 PM, David Dahl <dd...@mozilla.com> wrote:
> Oh I'm sorry, I do not care what the name is, I meant the feature / functionality.

Functionality: aces. Naming: substantially fewer aces. Maybe just 7-high.

Mike

[Mike Beltzner]

On 2010-06-24, at 12:36 PM, Ehsan Akhgari wrote:

> Well, the issue with the naming is not whether we actually display is
> as a real HUD or not. Names such as HUD do not have any equivalent
> phrase in some languages. I know this for a fact about Persian, and I
> _think_ this is what Kairo meant for German as well. To make things
> worse, it might be extremely difficult to come up with a "sexy" name,
> because the mere notion of a "sexy" name is culture-dependent, and is
> not expressible in every culture/language.

I don't think that names need to be translated 1:1 - if there's no equivalent phrase in languages, then we'll rely on our localizers to pick something else that's cool. We've done that before in our UI and we can do it again.

I'm not advocating for or sure that HUD is the best name for this feature, but I do want to point out that just because the name doesn't translate cleanly into 70+ languages doesn't mean that we should avoid it. I trust our localizers to come up with something close to and matching in spirit.

cheers,
mike

[Asa Dotzler]

Also, not all names need translating. We don't translate "Mozilla" and
"Firefox" and if we decide to brand features as we do the products, I
think we should be open to the idea of coming up with "sexy" names that
don't get translated.

- A

[Ehsan Akhgari]

I'm not opposed to anything being sexy! ;-) What I'm trying to say
is that it's OK if we choose a name which does not map into 70+
languages, but I think we should consider coming up with names which
actually make sense to our localizers, so that they can replace it
with something in their own language carrying the same weight and
feeling as the original one. I think that names such as "HUD" do not
have that property: it's quite possible for a localizer living in a
different culture to have never come across it before in their life,
so when they want to think about what equivalent names to choose, they
won't have a good starting point.

I think that HUD is very different to a brand name such as "Firefox",
because if we choose to brand the feature using the name "HUD", and if
I just transliterate the name "HUD" in Persian, Persian speaking users
would not have an idea what that word means until the time that people
start recognizing them as a brand name. Brand names are not created
over night.

It's sort of interesting to see how our semi-official brand names have
turned out in non-English speaking communities. Let's take AwesomeBar
as an example. There is no way that phrase could ever catch on in a
Persian speaking environment, for two reasons. One, the phrase itself
is too long and hard for Persian speakers to squeeze in their
sentences, and two, it's very tough to come up with a phrase which
keeps the original intention but uses the Persian language (in this
specific case because the Persian word for "bar" also stands for
"strip" or "band", as in a band aid for example, and when encountered
alone, in almost always means "strip" or "band", and almost never a
"bar").

I know the fact that these types of problems can never be solved,
because, well, languages are tough. I'm just posting this in the hope
that people would consider these types of problems when coming up with
new names to be used in the product. I guess it would be nice for us
to involve our localization community when we're trying to come up
with such a name as well, but that's an entirely different discussion.

--
Ehsan
<http://ehsanakhgari.org/>

[Philip Chee]

On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 15:36:43 -0400, Ehsan Akhgari wrote:
> Well, the issue with the naming is not whether we actually display is
> as a real HUD or not. Names such as HUD do not have any equivalent
> phrase in some languages. I know this for a fact about Persian, and I
> _think_ this is what Kairo meant for German as well. To make things
> worse, it might be extremely difficult to come up with a "sexy" name,
> because the mere notion of a "sexy" name is culture-dependent, and is
> not expressible in every culture/language.

And might get you into trouble with the Islamic Enforcement Agencies
over here.

Phil

--
Philip Chee <phi...@aleytys.pc.my>, <phili...@gmail.com>
http://flashblock.mozdev.org/ http://xsidebar.mozdev.org
Guard us from the she-wolf and the wolf, and guard us from the thief,
oh Night, and so be good for us to pass.

[Drew]

> To make things
> worse, it might be extremely difficult to come up with a "sexy" name,
> because the mere notion of a "sexy" name is culture-dependent, and is
> not expressible in every culture/language.

That's why it's called "localization" and not "translation." :) (To
restate Beltzner's point.)

Drew

On 6/24/10 12:36 PM, Ehsan Akhgari wrote:
> Well, the issue with the naming is not whether we actually display is
> as a real HUD or not. Names such as HUD do not have any equivalent
> phrase in some languages. I know this for a fact about Persian, and I
> _think_ this is what Kairo meant for German as well. To make things
> worse, it might be extremely difficult to come up with a "sexy" name,
> because the mere notion of a "sexy" name is culture-dependent, and is
> not expressible in every culture/language.
>

> --
> Ehsan
> <http://ehsanakhgari.org/>

[Ron Hunter]

On 6/25/2010 1:07 AM, Drew wrote:
> > To make things
> > worse, it might be extremely difficult to come up with a "sexy" name,
> > because the mere notion of a "sexy" name is culture-dependent, and is
> > not expressible in every culture/language.
>
> That's why it's called "localization" and not "translation." :) (To
> restate Beltzner's point.)
>
> Drew
>

Isn't that the difference between 'translation' and 'interpretation'?

[Axel Hecht]

I filed https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=574628 to get this
renamed.

I haven't heard enough pros, and quite a few cons, some of which are
independent of l10n, too.

Axel

[Rob Campbell]

On Jun 25, 9:14 am, Axel Hecht <l...@mozilla.com> wrote:
> I filedhttps://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=574628to get this

> renamed.
>
> I haven't heard enough pros, and quite a few cons, some of which are
> independent of l10n, too.

I never intended for the name "Heads Up Display" to be the shipping
feature name, but more of a project name so I could refer to it when
talking about it to people. It's a Console and we should probably just
name it that.

Another option could be Transcript. A running log of information.

My thesaurus also suggests, Script, Play-by-play (probably also not
good for l10n), Libretto(!), or Score.

I'll post these over in the bug for commentary. Thanks for filing it,
Axel!

~ rob

[David Dahl]

One more time. I was NOT advocating a "sexy" name. I do not care what the name is. I was advocating a "GREAT FEATURE"

That is all.

David.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Philip Chee" <phili...@gmail.com>
To: dev-apps...@lists.mozilla.org
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 5:56:39 PM
Subject: Re: "Heads Up Display" naming

Phil

_______________________________________________

[Alex Faaborg]

I think naming it the Console (while a very literal name) also has a subtle
appeal when we also introduce mapping the tilde key*

http://tech-bytes.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/quake4-console.jpg

this would I think mark the first time we've seriously considered leveraging
external consistency with an id game :)

*(I know this is an l10n nightmare, so we also have to keep control-shift-k
or another shortcut)

On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 8:36 AM, David Dahl <dd...@mozilla.com> wrote:

> One more time. I was NOT advocating a "sexy" name. I do not care what the
> name is. I was advocating a "GREAT FEATURE"
>
> That is all.
>
> David.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Philip Chee" <phili...@gmail.com>
> To: dev-apps...@lists.mozilla.org
> Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 5:56:39 PM
> Subject: Re: "Heads Up Display" naming
>

[Patipat Susumpow]

As an hybrid localiser/developer, I, mostly, localise any specific techie
jargons by it's context of use, not by its name :)

For this HUD, I prefer something like 'Developer Console' in Thai :)

Keng.

On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 02:51, Alex Faaborg <faa...@mozilla.com> wrote:

> I think naming it the Console (while a very literal name) also has a subtle
> appeal when we also introduce mapping the tilde key*
>
> http://tech-bytes.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/quake4-console.jpg
>
> this would I think mark the first time we've seriously considered
> leveraging
> external consistency with an id game :)
>
> *(I know this is an l10n nightmare, so we also have to keep control-shift-k
> or another shortcut)
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 8:36 AM, David Dahl <dd...@mozilla.com> wrote:
>
> > One more time. I was NOT advocating a "sexy" name. I do not care what the
> > name is. I was advocating a "GREAT FEATURE"
> >
> > That is all.
> >
> > David.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Philip Chee" <phili...@gmail.com>
> > To: dev-apps...@lists.mozilla.org
> > Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 5:56:39 PM
> > Subject: Re: "Heads Up Display" naming
> >