printing bug? (firefox 10)

[Istvan Gabor]

Hello:

I found a possible printing bug in firefox 10:

When I print a web page the browser automatically chooses the print version of the page for printing. Therefore the information which is not included on
the print version of the page can not be printed.
The browser should print the print version only if the user asks for it, eg clicks the print button on the page. If the user prints from File/Print menu the browser should print exactly what is in the browser page, not the print version.

Here is an example site/page:

http://www.hasznaltauto.hu/auto/alfa_romeo/159/alfa_romeo_159_1.9_sportwagon-5549846

I can not print the banners at the top of this page and the ads at the bottom.

Regards,

Istvan

[Alexander Skwar (ML)]

Am 05/10/12 12:02, schrieb Istvan Gabor:

> Hello:
>
> I found a possible printing bug in firefox 10:
>
> When I print a web page the browser automatically chooses the print version of the page for printing. Therefore the information which is not included on
> the print version of the page can not be printed.
> The browser should print the print version only if the user asks for it, eg clicks the print button on the page. If the user prints from File/Print menu the browser should print exactly what is in the browser page, not the print version.

No, it should not. If the user prints, and if the site supplies a
print CSS, that's what should be used, I'd think. Not every page has a
seperate print functionality - and, after all, that's usually just
invoking the javascript print function.

>
> Here is an example site/page:
>
> http://www.hasznaltauto.hu/auto/alfa_romeo/159/alfa_romeo_159_1.9_sportwagon-5549846
>
> I can not print the banners at the top of this page and the ads at the bottom.

Me neither. I get this:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/tmcc4ccq63iasmc/Mozilla-Print.pdf

Chrome seems to behave identically:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/h84xd9h0bqb71vd/Chrome-Print.pdf

This alone is a reason to keep it that way - not that Chrome
does something, but rather, that there shouldn't be extreme
differences between different browsers and what they produce
(if it's according to standards, of course).


Alexander
--
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[Ron Hunter]

You want a screen print facility. There are many good third party ones,
or you can use the built-in MS one if you are using Windows.

[Robert Buecheler]

On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 5:02 AM, Istvan Gabor <suseu...@freemail.hu> wrote:
> Hello:
>
> I found a possible printing bug in firefox 10:
>
> When I print a web page the browser automatically chooses the print version of the page for printing.
>Therefore the information which is not included on the print version of the page can not be printed.

that is not a bug, that is by design.

> The browser should print the print version only if the user asks for it, eg clicks the print button on the page.
> If the user prints from File/Print menu the browser should print exactly what is in the browser page,
> not the print version.

the "print button" is just a java script that invokes the "File/Print
menu" item.

> Here is an example site/page:
>
> http://www.hasznaltauto.hu/auto/alfa_romeo/159/alfa_romeo_159_1.9_sportwagon-5549846
>
> I can not print the banners at the top of this page and the ads at the bottom.

for some different functionality of the printing procedure, if there
is a media print CSS item,
you can disable it with the web developer add-on.
<https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/web-developer/>

Bear in mind that whoever sets up a website with a defined print media
type usually does that with a purpose,
and the output might not look as you see it on the screen.

[Istvan Gabor]

Robert Buecheler <rf.bue...@gmail.com> írta:

>On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 5:02 AM, Istvan Gabor <suseu...@freemail.hu> wrote:>
> Hello:>
>>
> I found a possible printing bug in firefox 10:>
>>
> When I print a web page the browser automatically chooses the print version of the page for printing.>
>Therefore the information which is not included on the print version of the page can not be printed.>
>
that is not a bug, that is by design.>

If it is, then this design is bad.
Your answer also indicates what the developers think about
users: they don't let the user choose what he wants to do, the software
has to decide what to do according to the developers likes and habits or
expectations.

When I choose print I don't instruct the browser to load another css and reload the page.
For that there it is the print icon in the page.
At least there should be option to let me choose what I want to print (which version).

>
> The browser should print the print version only if the user asks for it, eg clicks the print button on the page.>
> If the user prints from File/Print menu the browser should print exactly what is in the browser page,>
> not the print version.>
>
the "print button" is just a java script that invokes the "File/Print>
menu" item.>
>
> Here is an example site/page:>
>>
> http://www.hasznaltauto.hu/auto/alfa_romeo/159/alfa_romeo_159_1.9_sportwagon-5549846>
>>
> I can not print the banners at the top of this page and the ads at the bottom.>
>
for some different functionality of the printing procedure, if there>
is a media print CSS item,>
you can disable it with the web developer add-on.>
<https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/web-developer/>>
>
Bear in mind that whoever sets up a website with a defined print media>
type usually does that with a purpose,>
and the output might not look as you see it on the screen.>

Yes, and for that purpose the website creators insert a print icon or
'print page' option in the site. Clicking on that assumes that the user
wants to print the print version. Choosing file/print indicates that one
wants to print what is in the browser's window, not the print version.
This should be doable without any addons.

Istvan

[Alexander Skwar]

Hi

On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 2:56 PM, Istvan Gabor <suseu...@freemail.hu> wrote:
>
> Robert Buecheler <rf.bue...@gmail.com> írta:
> >On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 5:02 AM, Istvan Gabor <suseu...@freemail.hu> wrote:>
> > Hello:>
> >>
> > I found a possible printing bug in firefox 10:>
> >>
> > When I print a web page the browser automatically chooses the print version of the page for printing.>
> >Therefore the information which is not included on the print version of the page can not be printed.>
> >
> that is not a bug, that is by design.>
>
> If it is, then this design is bad.

I disagree.

> Your answer also indicates what the developers think about
> users: they don't let the user choose what he wants to do,  the software
> has to decide what to do according to the developers likes and habits or
> expectations.

That's how software development usually works.

> When I choose print I don't instruct the browser to load another css and reload the page.

Yes, you do. That's why it's possible to specify a media attribute for
CSS.

> For that there it is the print icon in the page.

Not always.

> Yes, and for that purpose the website creators insert a print icon or
> 'print page' option in the site.

Again - not always!

> Clicking on that assumes that the user
> wants to print the print version.

Yes, that's right. But what do you do, if there's no print button?

> Choosing file/print indicates that one
> wants to print what is in the browser's window, not the print version.

No, it doesn't. It indicates, that the user wants to print the page.

> This should be doable without any addons.

Actually - no. Usually, I guess, users will be happy to get a version
which is optimized for print.

Alexander
--
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[Robert Buecheler]

On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 7:56 AM, Istvan Gabor <suseu...@freemail.hu> wrote:
> Robert Buecheler <rf.bue...@gmail.com> írta:
>>On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 5:02 AM, Istvan Gabor <suseu...@freemail.hu> wrote:>
>> Hello:>
>>>
>> I found a possible printing bug in firefox 10:>
>>>
>> When I print a web page the browser automatically chooses the print version of the page for printing.>
>>Therefore the information which is not included on the print version of the page can not be printed.>
>>
> that is not a bug, that is by design.>
>
> If it is, then this design is bad.

I understand your what you say, but that is just how CSS and W3C works.
You say that it would be nice to have an option to print the page WYSIWYG style,
regardless of how web designers choose the print output.
I'm not sure that you will find that option on any browser.

> Your answer also indicates what the developers think about
> users: they don't let the user choose what he wants to do,  the software
> has to decide what to do according to the developers likes and habits or
> expectations.

Not according to their habits, but yes, according to what they think
that the end user
will want to see on paper, and ads are usually not an output coice of
an end user.

> When I choose print I don't instruct the browser to load another css and reload the page.

No, you don't have to, the website designer has done that for you already :)
Or in your case - unfortunately :(

> For that there it is the print icon in the page.

Again, the print icon on the page just emulates the print command of
the browser -- Nothing else.
You will get the same results whichever path you choose to print from.

> At least there should be option to let me choose what I want to print (which version).

Ah, just as I mentioned. You want WYSIWYG.
But you mentioned the ads in your earlier message.
The ads on the page you mentioned are loaded through javascript and
change constantly,
that is, with every reload of the page you will have different ads,
and that might not necessarily be the ads that would be printed.

>> The browser should print the print version only if the user asks for it, eg clicks the print button on the page.>
>> If the user prints from File/Print menu the browser should print exactly what is in the browser page,>
>> not the print version.>
>>
> the "print button" is just a java script that invokes the "File/Print>
> menu" item.>
>>
>> Here is an example site/page:>
>>>
>> http://www.hasznaltauto.hu/auto/alfa_romeo/159/alfa_romeo_159_1.9_sportwagon-5549846>
>>>
>> I can not print the banners at the top of this page and the ads at the bottom.>
>>
> for some different functionality of the printing procedure, if there>
> is a media print CSS item,>
> you can disable it with the web developer add-on.>
> <https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/web-developer/>>
>>
> Bear in mind that whoever sets up a website with a defined print media>
> type usually does that with a purpose,>
> and the output might not look as you see it on the screen.>
>

> Yes, and for that purpose the website creators insert a print icon or

> 'print page' option in the site. Clicking on that assumes that the user
> wants to print the print version. Choosing file/print indicates that one

> wants to print what is in the browser's window, not the print version.

> This should be doable without any addons.

No, as Alexander and I have already mentioned, the "print icon, print
link, or print button" on a website just invokes the print command of
the browser.
All it does: onclick="window.print(); return false;"
That's it, nothing fancy.