exposing "restore tabs on startup" in "warn when closing multiple tabs" dialog
Myk Melez
tabs" (browser.tabs.warnOnClose) preference is set to true (as it is by
default), then the browser displays the following dialog:
You are about to close [n] open tabs. Are you sure you want
to continue?
[x] Warn me when I attempt to close multiple tabs
[Cancel] [Close tabs]
Since the purpose of this dialog is to help prevent close-tab accidents,
it seems like a good place to expose the new "restore tabs on startup"
functionality from session store, which also helps prevent such
accidents, via something like this checkbox:
[ ] Reopen tabs the next time I start Firefox
I'm not sure whether this checkbox should set the "resume session" or
"resume session once" preference. Perhaps the former, and then a button
like this one (but more succinct) for choosing the latter:
[Close tabs, then reopen them the next time I start Firefox]
Thoughts?
-myk
Brett Wilson
> Thoughts?
I like it.
Brett
Peter Kasting
> Thoughts?
If we now have the capability to reopen tabs on restart, then why not
have the default behavior be to restore tabs on restart and not warn the
user when closing with multiple tabs open? Have a pref (on by default)
to "remember tabs across sessions" controlling this, and if the user
disables it, we do the old behavior of warning when closing multiple tabs.
I worry that putting any more text, checkboxes, or controls into the
warning box makes it too heavyweight, and I really just want my browser
to do "the right thing" by default and not warn me.
PK
Eric Shepherd
Eric Shepherd
Technical Writer
she...@mozilla.com
Robert Marshall
I think adding a new button like this is the best option. Turn the
checkbox into a generic "Remember this" option, label the button "Save
session", and explain a bit more in the text at the top.
My reasoning for this is that it limits the UI addition to one button,
and doesn't surprise me by opening stuff I just closed without
permission. At the same time it allows people to make it save every time
with one extra click.
I'd initially thought of always saving the session and prompting on
start-up (like Opera does in some configurations), but I think prompting
on shut-down is better because it allows me to see the tabs I have open
at the time I'm making the decision.
Pam Greene
> [ ] Reopen tabs the next time I start Firefox
>
> I'm not sure whether this checkbox should set the "resume session" or
> "resume session once" preference. Perhaps the former, and then a button
> like this one (but more succinct) for choosing the latter:
>
> [Close tabs, then reopen them the next time I start Firefox]
>
> Thoughts?
That makes a lot of sense if I'm quitting the app, but much less if
I'm only closing the window.
On 6/1/06, Peter Kasting <pkas...@google.com> wrote:
> If we now have the capability to reopen tabs on restart, then why not
> have the default behavior be to restore tabs on restart and not warn the
> user when closing with multiple tabs open?
Depending on how many tabs were open and what servers and pages they
showed, restoring tabs can be a very time-consuming operation,
significantly annoying if it's not exactly what the user wanted. Talk
about increasing Ts!
- Pam
Peter Kasting
> Depending on how many tabs were open and what servers and pages they
> showed, restoring tabs can be a very time-consuming operation,
> significantly annoying if it's not exactly what the user wanted. Talk
> about increasing Ts!
But won't the user see something akin to starting up with a set of tabs
for a homepage? Namely, a bunch of tabs with "loading" icons? The
browser is already started, and if they want to close the tabs or do
something else they can. It's not as if the screen sits blank for
several seconds while we try to contact servers.
This does lead me to wonder about the interaction of "preserving state"
and having a homepage. It seems inconsistent to try to "restore state"
when closing with multiple tabs, but not with just one. I suspect I
might prefer to have an option for "on startup, open:" that's along the
lines of "tabs open on last shutdown". This would obviate the need for
the "preserve state across reloads" pref I mentioned previously, and
allow us to be both clear and consistent in our behavior.
* When a user selects this as the startup option, we don't ever warn on
browser shutdown, and we always reload the previous session's tabs on
startup.
* When the user selects something else, we do our current behavior on
browser shutdown (i.e. warn if closing multiple tabs, unless the user
has disabled the warning). If the browser crashes instead of shutting
down normally, then on next startup, we prompt to ask if they'd like to
restore their previous tabs. (Note that this prompt is unnecessary if
the user wants to do this by default.)
Probably such a choice would have to be presented as a separate choice
from the homepage options, so that there'd still be some concept of a
"home" page to go to if the user hit the appropriate button/shortcut.
"On startup, open:
* Home page
** (existing home page options as in current dialog)
* Pages from previous browser session"
...Or something similar.
PK
Pam Greene
> > Depending on how many tabs were open and what servers and pages they
> > showed, restoring tabs can be a very time-consuming operation,
> > significantly annoying if it's not exactly what the user wanted. Talk
> > about increasing Ts!
>
> But won't the user see something akin to starting up with a set of tabs
> for a homepage? Namely, a bunch of tabs with "loading" icons? The
> browser is already started, and if they want to close the tabs or do
> something else they can. It's not as if the screen sits blank for
> several seconds while we try to contact servers.
Actually, it does, at least on a Mac. I can easily make my browser
become completely unresponsive by trying to open about 20 tabs at
once. It's a hair's-breadth away from hanging: I can neither stop
tabs from loading nor close them; I can barely switch away from and
back to the app. (Admittedly, that's in 1.5.x. The responsiveness
may have improved in 2.0+.) But in any case, having to manually close
15 tabs is a bother.
> I suspect I
> might prefer to have an option for "on startup, open:" that's along the
> lines of "tabs open on last shutdown". This would obviate the need for
> the "preserve state across reloads" pref I mentioned previously, and
> allow us to be both clear and consistent in our behavior.
>
> * When a user selects this as the startup option, we don't ever warn on
> browser shutdown, and we always reload the previous session's tabs on
> startup.
> * When the user selects something else, we do our current behavior on
> browser shutdown (i.e. warn if closing multiple tabs, unless the user
> has disabled the warning). If the browser crashes instead of shutting
> down normally, then on next startup, we prompt to ask if they'd like to
> restore their previous tabs. (Note that this prompt is unnecessary if
> the user wants to do this by default.)
That sounds good to me.
- Pam
Adam Guthrie
Yeah, I like this idea. I think we should do something
similar to Opera where we ask the user on restart if they
would like to restore their previous session. And maybe have
a checkbox asking "Always restore my previous session" or
something.
This would be more consistent with how we handle restoring
the session in the result of a crash.
- Adam
Michael Lefevre
> On 6/1/06, Peter Kasting <pkas...@google.com> wrote:
>> Pam Greene wrote:
>> > Depending on how many tabs were open and what servers and pages they
>> > showed, restoring tabs can be a very time-consuming operation,
>> > significantly annoying if it's not exactly what the user wanted. Talk
>> > about increasing Ts!
>>
>> But won't the user see something akin to starting up with a set of tabs
>> for a homepage? Namely, a bunch of tabs with "loading" icons? The
>> browser is already started, and if they want to close the tabs or do
>> something else they can. It's not as if the screen sits blank for
>> several seconds while we try to contact servers.
>
> Actually, it does, at least on a Mac. I can easily make my browser
> become completely unresponsive by trying to open about 20 tabs at
> once.
It's not great on Windows either, in my experience. It doesn't actually
stay blank while contacting servers, but it does freeze up while (I
presume) it opens the blank tabs.
>> I suspect I
>> might prefer to have an option for "on startup, open:" that's along the
>> lines of "tabs open on last shutdown". This would obviate the need for
>> the "preserve state across reloads" pref I mentioned previously, and
>> allow us to be both clear and consistent in our behavior.
>
> That sounds good to me.
That indeed sounds like a better option.
--
Michael
beltzner
> On 6/1/06, Myk Melez <m...@mozilla.org> wrote:
> > [ ] Reopen tabs the next time I start Firefox
> >
> > I'm not sure whether this checkbox should set the "resume session" or
> > "resume session once" preference. Perhaps the former, and then a button
> > like this one (but more succinct) for choosing the latter:
> >
> > [Close tabs, then reopen them the next time I start Firefox]
> >
> > Thoughts?
>
> I'm only closing the window.
This is the killer argument right here. This warning is shown when a
user presses Accel-Shift-W (close all tabs) which does not necessarily
equate to a shutdown of the browser. What we might end up needing is a
different dialog entirely, which says something like:
Quit Firefox
You have n windows with a total of m tabs open. Would you like
Firefox to start up next time where you left off?
[ Don't Quit!] [ Remember and Quit ] [Just Quit]
(* we'd need to be smart here and detect the case where there's
one-tab-per window, and say "You have n windows open.", mconnor
reminds me)
cheers,
mike
--
/ mike beltzner / phenomenologist / mozilla corporation /
Adam Kowalczyk
> This is the killer argument right here. This warning is shown when a
> user presses Accel-Shift-W (close all tabs) which does not necessarily
> equate to a shutdown of the browser. What we might end up needing is a
> different dialog entirely, which says something like:
>
> Quit Firefox
>
> You have n windows with a total of m tabs open. Would you like
> Firefox to start up next time where you left off?
>
> [ Don't Quit!] [ Remember and Quit ] [Just Quit]
>
> (* we'd need to be smart here and detect the case where there's
> one-tab-per window, and say "You have n windows open.", mconnor
> reminds me)
>
> cheers,
> mike
>
This sounds great but I've got two questions:
(1) Is the checkbox not to show the dialog again intentionally removed
or is it just an oversight?
(2) I assume that [Remember and Quit] will restore tabs only the next
time application starts. Will there be UI exposed for the pref to always
restore previous session (browser.sessionstore.resume_session)? The
natural place for it would be General -> Home page section.
- Adam
Fergy
What about this guys idea:
http://www.artfedorov.ru/articles/bring_it_back/
It would limit all this to one button which would always be accessible.
People could just close the window and if they lost something just
start firefox and press that button to get all the tabs back. Maybe you
would only have to warn about pages that couldn't be broad back like
logins and secure pages.
Nickolay Ponomarev
> If we now have the capability to reopen tabs on restart, then why not
> have the default behavior be to restore tabs on restart and not warn the
> user when closing with multiple tabs open? Have a pref (on by default)
The problem is that our session restore implementation is not perfect, so
accidentally closing a window with a bunch of tabs may lead to dataloss.
Nickolay
Peter Kasting
True. But closing a window with only one tab open may also lead to
dataloss, and we don't warn about that. I guess it depends on what
you're trying to prevent with the warning.
PK
Benjy Grogan
> On 6/1/06, Pam Greene <pamg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 6/1/06, Myk Melez <m...@mozilla.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > I'm not sure whether this checkbox should set the "resume session" or
> > > "resume session once" preference. Perhaps the former, and then a button
> > > like this one (but more succinct) for choosing the latter:
> > >
> > > [Close tabs, then reopen them the next time I start Firefox]
> > >
> > > Thoughts?
> >
> > I'm only closing the window.
>
> user presses Accel-Shift-W (close all tabs) which does not necessarily
> equate to a shutdown of the browser. What we might end up needing is a
> different dialog entirely, which says something like:
>
> Quit Firefox
>
> You have n windows with a total of m tabs open. Would you like
> Firefox to start up next time where you left off?
>
> [ Don't Quit!] [ Remember and Quit ] [Just Quit]
>
> (* we'd need to be smart here and detect the case where there's
> one-tab-per window, and say "You have n windows open.", mconnor
> reminds me)
This dialog works for me. I've been using the Google Browser Sync
extension, and one thing I find is that when I'm closing the browser,
I would like to be able to kill off a few tabs that I don't want to
see on my next restore. It would be a good idea to allow the user to
be able to middle-click mouse button close tabs even while prompted
with this dialog. If you have 15 tabs open, there's probably six or
so that you'll want to keep around. Maybe even an option to show all
the tabs on the screen so that you can kill of certain tabs as
thumbnails.
Maybe this is just me? Anyone else using the Google Browser Sync
extension think this might be useful?
Benjy
>
> cheers,
> mike
>
> --
> / mike beltzner / phenomenologist / mozilla corporation /
> _______________________________________________
> dev-apps-firefox mailing list
> dev-apps...@lists.mozilla.org
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-apps-firefox
>
beltzner
a bug on file with some suggestions. I'm obviously partial to mine. :)
Mike Shaver
* I think we should prompt at _startup_ by default, with something like
(*) Don't offer to restore my sessions in the future
( ) Always restore
( ) Ask me every time, I am a very tentative and careful sort
in the prompt. Making people decide at shutdown whether they're going
to want that data when they start back up is asking them to predict
the future, which I think we should generally avoid.
(Alternative would be some infobar thing indicating that we restored
the session, with those sorts of options in it or available from it.
Probably a nicer experience than a modal dialog, but likely harder to
get right.)
* I think we want to promote this capability to new and upgrading
users, because it's something that I think a lot of people will
appreciate. Having UI in the prefwindow for it is better than what we
have today, but I really do think we should make it a solid default
experience.
* Does this work as we expect for multiple windows being open? I saw
some weird behaviour in the past, but haven't tested it much lately.
* See also the case in which my browser is started by clicking an
external link, which I recall being weird but can't find a bug about.
I hope some of that is helpful...
Mike
Benjy Grogan
I think that's what the average user is going to appreciate the most
about restore session.
Otherwise, most of the time the average user wants to be rid of those
tabs, and they don't want the next person to use the browser to load
them up.
Benjy
BryanS...@gmail.com
webpages, is something which although isnt used by a majority yet, its
definitely something that should be a default with minimal dialogue
boxes, and it would make absolute sense and be very beneficial to
increasing amounts of users. I like a few of the ideas, but the
original one sticks out in my mind, at least if the "warning for
closing a window with tabs" remains. Thats the thing that for me
infact makes it not the best implementation future wise. The warning
of closing tabs upon closing a window is going to be made increasingly
obvious and un-necessary as on by default. In particular from Fx 2
onwards where tabs will be defaults, and increasingly, the majority
will therefore be using them, and become accustom to them, meaning most
will realise closing the window closes the tabs. So that option is
therefore made pretty un-necessary at least on by default for all.
There's benefits to having the restore dialogue upon close and startup,
overall, I think it might be best upon startup, for the following
reasons. Upon closing any window, program or otherwise, users are used
to and expect that to be the last of it, it closes, you exit, thats it.
So out with the warning of closing tabs upon closing windows which
with tabs on by default and more is increasingly un-necessary, and when
the user clicks close window, just close the window. The more dialogue
boxes that are thrown in the users face at this time of them merely
wanting to exit (often leaving the computer) is just going to annoy
users, waste time, and not recieve much consideration, and often just
get a random click, or the button that closest resembles "no dont ever
ask me I dont want this", even though they may.
Pro's however for having it upon closing are that perhaps a user should
be warned if a session is somehow being saved and could be restored, as
a dad may have a load of porn sites open, has no idea its saved, and
child is upon startup restoring. Swings and roundabouts.
In conclusion I think this is best implemented in a first run setup
page as IE7 has, and Asa Dotzler amongst others are rightly suggesting
would be good for Firefox.
Utilise the first run page with confirmation of latest version,
explaining certain features, linking to addons and more to cater for
more. Develop this page to cater in one simple neatly sectioned,
better layed out easy to grasp page, the setting of many options,
settings, many of which dialogue boxes like; make default browser,
always ask, close window and tabs, continue submitting data, and the
many more. Many of which upon first session, and towards first few uses
of Firefox hassling users and not getting the best response therefore.
This way users are presented with all the information in one neat
place, running latest version, info, pics, links on features and things
explained, and quick options and settings. Users can then see clearly
all these things once and spend that minute or two grasping it easily
with a nice graphical section layout of the basic settings and options,
1 minute doing to take effect from thereon, meaning users dont have to
worry about dialogue boxes all the time.
For restore it could be explained neatly, with a link for more
information, and quickly set right there, rather than in another
un-necessary dialogue box which users are increasingly fedup with and
dont pay much attention to, so a first run page like www.getFoxie.com
and IE7 has would rid of many nuisance dialogue boxes, allow users to
easily see and grasp many options neatly presented before them to set
as they wish, restore being one of many that would fit into this rather
than many scattered boxes, or a progression of more and more such
dialogue boxes which arent the best way to display, explain and get and
understanding and attention of users. So system restore a definite
yes, its settings to be decided, but its options like many things, best
implemented not into more confusing dialogue boxes, but an easy, better
first run page catering neatly for many such settings the user can
change or not as they wish.