Icons in Firefox 3
Alex Faaborg
posting to this thread sheets containing the current set of icons so
we can start to get feedback even before some of these icons begin to
appear in nightly builds.
-Alex
Alex Faaborg
http://blog.mozilla.com/faaborg/2007/12/13/a-first-look-at-firefox-3s-icons/
Direct link to the new icons we currently have:
http://people.mozilla.com/~faaborg/files/20071207-iconsM2/iconsM2i2.png_large.png
-Alex
> _______________________________________________
> dev-apps-firefox mailing list
> dev-apps...@lists.mozilla.org
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-apps-firefox
Adam Kowalczyk
> Blog post about the new icons:
> http://blog.mozilla.com/faaborg/2007/12/13/a-first-look-at-firefox-3s-icons/
>
>
> Direct link to the new icons we currently have:
> http://people.mozilla.com/~faaborg/files/20071207-iconsM2/iconsM2i2.png_large.png
>
>
> -Alex
>
Thank you for sharing. Now that's going to be one heated discussion if
Firefox 2 theme redesign taught us anything. :)
I am only going to talk about XP. Let me start off by saying that I
applauded you blog post and I was excited about many of the ideas
outlined in it. But there are some major aspects of the current design
that I think went horribly wrong.
I've got a fundamental problem with the new style of the icons, which
that it seems that the author confuses "platform integration" with
"Microsoft-yness". The icons feel too much like a Microsoft product and
for many users this doesn't carry positive associations, even less so
for Firefox users. For most users "Microsoft" means official, dull,
without flair. Firefox's has always been hip, alternative, cool and that
is its appeal. If platform integration is to happen at the cost of this
appeal, then it's a very bad trade-off.
This impression doesn't apply to all the icons but it definitely does to
some the most important ones. It is present on two levels: both visual
(styling) and semantical (symbols and metaphors).
Two examples:
1) Styling - Back & Forward buttons
I do like the concept of identity based on shape and I like the shape
itself. But the icons... I mean COME ON! They SO make you think about
Microsoft/IE/Windows Explorer/Etc. Am I the only ones who feels almost
sick when seeing them? How is Firefox to build its own identity by using
one of the most recognizable elements of the very product it's trying to
differentiate from?
2) Semantics - Options panes
In Firefox 2 the pane icons are big, colorful, kinda fun. The proposed
icons look like they were taken from taken straight from Windows Control
Panel or actually from some kind of other a more advanced, lower level
configuration panel. And they all look the same, so generic and dull!
Absolutely no sense of fun. :(
But this was supposed to be about semantics. The window with the
checkmarks is probably symbolizing options and it constitutes the bulk
of the icons, while the category symbol is much smaller. But the user
already IS in options, he doesn't need to be reminded about it all the
time. What he now wants, is to find a particular option he needs. What's
the point of this design, then?
Time to wrap it up. Alex, I hate to sound so negative but I don't get
why you guys took this direction. Platform integration is a good thing,
but have we ever heard complaints about how Firefox integrates with XP,
which would justify such a radical change in the look and feel? I think
that the design doesn't reflect the spirit and character of Firefox at
all. It feels like the kind of makeover that Microsoft would give it if
it wanted to include it in Micosoft Office. I know that there is sort of
a paradox, because the main competitor's look-and-feel is also the
platform's look-and-feel. However, the choice between improving platform
integration and keeping the fun appeal of Firefox should be clear.
The new design completely gives up continuity, it doesn't resemble the
look that has been associated with Firefox throughout its rise in the
last three years. It radically changes the feel of Firefox. It reinvents
something that doesn't need reinventing.
- Adam
Adam Kowalczyk
> Alex Faaborg writes:
>> Blog post about the new icons:
>> http://blog.mozilla.com/faaborg/2007/12/13/a-first-look-at-firefox-3s-icons/
>>
>>
>> Direct link to the new icons we currently have:
>> http://people.mozilla.com/~faaborg/files/20071207-iconsM2/iconsM2i2.png_large.png
>>
>>
>> -Alex
>>
>
> Thank you for sharing. Now that's going to be one heated discussion if
> Firefox 2 theme redesign taught us anything. :)
>
> I am only going to talk about XP. Let me start off by saying that I
> applauded you blog post and I was excited about many of the ideas
> outlined in it.
Clarification: I was referring to the original post "The Shape of Things
to Come?", not to the one Alex linked above. I have assumed that the
link was to the old post and I replied without reading the new one.
- Adam
bba...@gmail.com
Thanks for posting these, Alex!
I must say that I strongly dislike the Windows XP and Vista stop and
reload icons. I like the Fx2.0 ones a lot better than the ones posted.
The rest look great, though.
Tony Mechelynck
IIUC those icons are proposed for the Firefox Default theme, which (again,
IIUC) is intended to look most like the current platform's own apps and least
constant from platform to platform. For something less "dull", more "hip",
maybe what you need is a different theme? ("Toy Factory" is too flashy for my
taste but maybe that's what you need? It is certainly not "generic and dull".)
Best regards,
Tony.
--
Down with categorical imperative!
Thomas Stache
Windows XP, at least this first shot. These icons for the
- navigation controls,
- tab strip,
- pref window and
- identity panel
will make Firefox 3 look dated the moment it is released, because they
follow a design that's 6 years old (!) with XP having been released in
2001. This color scheme and arrow shape is not even used by Microsoft
anymore, taking a couple of recent consumer products as reference:
- Internet Explorer 7,
- Windows Defender,
- Windows Live OneCare,
- Office 2007,
- Windows Live Photo Gallery...
To be fair I'd like to mention that you probably didn't do the effort a
favor by showcasing the icons with the "plastic surface" look, only
mentioning that you are going for a more modern glossy look. That makes
it hard to provide any solid feedback.
I for one dislike from the heart the in-your-face dark blue icons for
tab scroll controls, find bar, download manager and Go button. I'd keep
the crisper green go and muted tab scoll buttons.
Thomas
graiz
I think the goal of fitting in with the platform is a good goal but
having different icons for XP and Vista is the wrong way to go.
Windows is one platform with different versions. You wouldn't do
separate tiger/leopard icons or another set of icons for Windows 2000?
The icons for Vista and XP should be the same:
- The icons are very similar so there is little end-customer
benefit, a typical end-consumer won't see a difference/benefit.
- Having two sets unnecessarily increases the size of the download
if you plan to have one windows executable.
- You incur a lot of cost in the time needed to design two sets of
icons as well as the testing of both. For example when you upgrade XP
to Vista do you get different icons? If you're a plug-in developer and
you want to fit-in, now you need separate icons?
- Lastly... the Vista icons don't look as good. (I admit I have an
XP icon bias since I worked on the icons for XP).
- Greg
Got photos, try http://picme.raizlabs.com
Jesper Kristensen
> Blog post about the new icons:
> http://blog.mozilla.com/faaborg/2007/12/13/a-first-look-at-firefox-3s-icons/
>
>
> Direct link to the new icons we currently have:
> http://people.mozilla.com/~faaborg/files/20071207-iconsM2/iconsM2i2.png_large.png
I very much like the way you always share your thoughts with us, Alex.
I am not sure if I like these new icons or not. Here are my comments on
them:
(I am a Windows XP user)
Most icons in general: It is not broken, why fix it? Why make Firefox 3
look alien to Firefox 2 users? With many of these icons it looks like
someone didn't know what to spend his time on and then decided to make
allot of new icons.
Back forward: I don't like the look of the XP icons. I also don't like
the shape of the buttons. As far as I can remember this shape was made
to give Firefox an identity, but then it makes no sense to only have
this on Windows.
Web Feed: They are orange. Why make it blue on Vista?
Identity/passport guy: I think the Linux icons look much nicer than the
windows ones. I would vote for using the Linux icons (or something like
them) on all platforms.
Glyphs in general: I don't like the sharp blue color. It is just not
nice to my eyes. Why isn't the soft green glyphs good enough?
Up/Down/Highlight: I cannot see a reason to use text on OSX and icons on
the other platforms. The highlight icon on Windows doesn't make sense.
Or maybe you have drawn the whole button on the OSX version and only the
icon on the Windows versions?
Prefpanes: It looks like on Windows I am going to have a tab strip in
the top of the options windows with a bunch of icons that all look the
same. I think it conflicts with the purpose of these icons, which I
guess it to make the prefpanes more distinguishable.
Save File: It looks like a download icon, not a save file icon.
Padlock: Why does it look so different on each platform?
Chris Ilias
I'm sure you've already read the Mac complaints of "If I wanted Safari,
I'd use Safari." I thing I dislike about the proto theme is that there's
no colour, and I don't think the lack of colour is needed to make the
app look familiar on OS X. For example:
Mail.app on Leopard: <http://ilias.ca/screenshots/mail.app-toolbar.png>
Colloquy (IRC client) on Leopard:
<http://ilias.ca/screenshots/colloquy-toolbar.png>
Cyberduck (FTP client) on Leopard:
<http://ilias.ca/screenshots/cyberduck-toolbar.png>
Even though two of those are not made by Apple, they all use coloured
icons on a grey Leopard toolbar, and to me, look good. Here's proto:
<http://ilias.ca/screenshots/proto.png>
Here's proto with a couple of extensions that have coloured toolbar
icons (placed between the home button and the location bar), and a
userChrome.css script to enable favicons.
<http://ilias.ca/screenshots/myproto.png>
I wonder what it would look like with the old green back/forward icons,
red stop icon, and old home icon. (Although I don't like the Fx2 home
icon, either. :-D )
--
Chris Ilias <http://ilias.ca>
List-owner: support-firefox, support-thunderbird, test-multimedia
M.J.
> Blog post about the new icons:http://blog.mozilla.com/faaborg/2007/12/13/a-first-look-at-firefox-3s...
>
> Direct link to the new icons we currently have:http://people.mozilla.com/~faaborg/files/20071207-iconsM2/iconsM2i2.p...
>
> -Alex
>
> Alex Faaborg wrote:
> > This thread is for discussion of the icons in Firefox 3. I'll be
> > posting to this thread sheets containing the current set of icons so
> > we can start to get feedback even before some of these icons begin to
> > appear in nightly builds.
> > -Alex
> > _______________________________________________
> > dev-apps-firefox mailing list
> >https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-apps-firefox
Thank you for presentation .
I don't think I like these icons . I prefer to the sky-blue color than
green.
The most important thing I care about is the performance even through
I am satisfied with firefox2.
I want higher speed, lower memory & CPU resource, and safety.
The fans in the world will develop more and more very cute, beautiful
themes and UI.
Lars-Erik Østerud
Couldn't agree more. I switched to FF2 because I hated the big icons
in IE7, and now you are going to do that in FF3 as well :-(
I like the menu/iconbar to waste minimal space (as in my userChrome
hack at http://osterud.name/firefox.html) but with that HUGE ugly back
button that is gonna be imposible...
I say, brush up the icons, OK, but keep the same size.
And please, no HUGE strange back button...
PS! How about merging the STOP and RELOAD (like many userChrome hacks
allready do). They are never used the same time, and could be one spot
--
Lars-Erik - http://www.osterud.name - ICQ 7297605
My Firefox tweaks: http://osterud.name/firefox.html
Tony Mechelynck
[...]
> PS! How about merging the STOP and RELOAD (like many userChrome hacks
> allready do). They are never used the same time, and could be one spot
>
You can do that with the "Stop-or-Reload Button" extension: who knows? maybe
some other people prefer separate buttons, in order, let's say, to avoid
reloading the page if it finishes loading while you point the mouse to that
button and click it. (IMHO, customizability and extensibility are among the
major strengths of the Firefox browser.)
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/313
Best regards,
Tony.
--
To generalize is to be an idiot.
-- William Blake
Lars-Erik Østerud
> > PS! How about merging the STOP and RELOAD (like many userChrome hacks
> > allready do). They are never used the same time, and could be one spot
>
> You can do that with the "Stop-or-Reload Button" extension: who knows? maybe
> some other people prefer separate buttons, in order, let's say, to avoid
You can doit easily now in "userChrome.css", but with with the new 3.0
button design I'm not sure, one suggestion was for a combined button
BTW: The userChrome, hack is easy for 2.0:
/* Merge STOP & RELOAD (must be in that order) */
#stop-button[disabled="true"],#stop-button:not([disabled])+#reload-button{display:none!important}
Lars-Erik Østerud
there will only be large I'll screen (and stick with 2.0 or the last
3.0b that has old icons :-)
How about a preview on the small icons? And making the back button
same max size as the others in small (16x16). That would make that an
option for those wanting to save space?
Alex Faaborg
Yes, we will still have small icons. These aren't in the sheet yet
(small grey squares mark icons we will be getting, but don't have
yet.) As we get more icons, I'll be updating the sheet and posting a
link to it in this thread, and on my blog.
-Alex
IceWookie
UI. I've always thought the UI was a step back since the drop of
Qute.
After looking at the icons, there are a couple of things I'm unsure
about: the large back-button, blue arrows for back/forward on Vista,
the size of the security icons.
That said, I'll reserve judgment until I get to play with a beta. Is
there an ETA on when a first version will be available for us
schmucks?
And Thanks Alex for the tidbits you are releasing. It's appreciated.
Andy
Ottawa, Ontario
g2g...@gmail.com
sick, literally nauseous, of them). Is there any chance of having the
old default icons back, or at least available as a theme? I don't want
KDE icons, and I dont want Gnome icons, I just want Firefox icons.
Gen Kanai
Alex,
I'm not sure if this is an icon issue or not but I felt that the Open
Search "blue halo" indicator in FX2 was too subtle for users to notice
that a website was offering a Firefox-compatible search engine
plugin. It seems this is still the case in Beta 2.
Is there any discussion about modifying this indicator for FX3? I've
searched bugzilla and didn't come up with anything.
Gen
Chris Ilias
> I wonder what it would look like with the old green back/forward icons,
> red stop icon, and old home icon. (Although I don't like the Fx2 home
> icon, either. :-D )
Looks like the help viewer has those icons:
<http://ilias.ca/screenshots/proto-helpviewer.png>
exod...@gmail.com
"I think the goal of fitting in with the platform is a good goal but
having different icons for XP and Vista is the wrong way to go."
- I strongly diasagree. Regardless of them both technically being the
same platform, they both have very different UI's, other than the fact
that their both wimp's. In fact that's pretty much the biggest
difference between vista and xp.
"Windows is one platform with different versions. You wouldn't do
separate tiger/leopard icons or another set of icons for Windows
2000?"
- You wouldn't need to do separate icons for Tiger/Leopard because
there isn't much change at all between the two OS's icon styles. There
IS however a drastic change in icon style between XP and Vista. As for
Windows 2000, IMO users should just be able to select the FX2 icon set/
theme adding only the few new icons that are needed for new features
in FX3.
"The icons are very similar so there is little end-customer
benefit, a typical end-consumer won't see a difference/benefit."
- Wrong. First off I think people pay attention to icons them more
than you give them credit for, at least the main icons like forward/
backward/refresh/stop.
Second, the benefit IS platform integration. Do you even understand
what platform integration means?
"Having two sets unnecessarily increases the size of the download
if you plan to have one windows executable."
- Yes I'm sure the extra 5mb would just totally bust peoples balls.
Please. It's all compressed in the installer anyway.
"You incur a lot of cost in the time needed to design two sets of
icons as well as the testing of both. For example when you upgrade XP
to Vista do you get different icons? If you're a plug-in developer
and
you want to fit-in, now you need separate icons?"
- This is the only semi-valid point you've got. However, I don't
think icons are used nearly as much in the average extension as much
as they are in core firefox, and even then usually the same icons are
used on all platforms.
"Lastly... the Vista icons don't look as good. (I admit I have an XP
icon bias since I worked on the icons for XP)."
- So you don't think the Vista icons look good, yet you think they
look very similar. Odd.
I don't mean any offense but you dont really have a strong arguement
here at all. Hopefully there will be an included firefox 2 for firefox
3 theme for people like you.
exod...@gmail.com
> Blog post about the new icons:http://blog.mozilla.com/faaborg/2007/12/13/a-first-look-at-firefox-3s...
>
> Direct link to the new icons we currently have:http://people.mozilla.com/~faaborg/files/20071207-iconsM2/iconsM2i2.p...
>
> -Alex
>
> Alex Faaborg wrote:
> > This thread is for discussion of the icons in Firefox 3. I'll be
> > posting to this thread sheets containing the current set of icons so
> > we can start to get feedback even before some of these icons begin to
> > appear in nightly builds.
> > -Alex
> > _______________________________________________
> > dev-apps-firefox mailing list
> >https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-apps-firefox
Very nice Alex. Thanks for sharing this. I really like the vista
icons, and the linux/gtk are pretty good too. The ugly duckling out
here seems to be the current xp icons, but I know you guys are
scrapping that and going to do royale style icons so I cant wait to
see those. Keep up the great work and dont let the critics dismay
you. :)
Wattsville Blues
version 0.8 or so. I love the new icons, but how about preserving a
nice green colour for those buttons? Maybe something akin to dark
green that lightens up on mouse hover?