Lightning Menus

[Christian Jansen]

As discussed on the Hamburg F2F meeting one of the goals is to come up
with a better Thunderbird integration. This also affects the menus.

Right now, Lightning integrates only in parts into the File menu and
adds a Calendar menu. From my point of view we can do better in this
area. For example the View modes (Day, Week, Multi Week,Month) should
move to the View menu instead of being placed in the Calendar menu.

I've created a prototype [1] of a possible calendar mode menu [1]. The
prototype is based on the Sunbird menu structure. Before I write the bug
for changing the menus in the proposed way I'd would like to hear your
opinion on the prototype.

Note, that this prototype does not include the mail mode changes.

Regards,
Christian

[1] http://www.cjansen.com/lightning/calendar-mode-menu.xul

[Pete]

Christian wrote:
> Before I write the bug for changing the menus in the
> proposed way I'd would like to hear your
> opinion on the prototype.

> http://www.cjansen.com/lightning/calendar-mode-menu.xul

That's pretty cool how you have a working menu bar on a website. :)

FILE MENU:

Ctrl-N normally creates a new mail message in Thunderbird, so I would
prefer that this didn't change, at least not in Mail Mode.

(There is probably a lot of work to do in regard to keyboard
shortcuts, but that's probably for a different discussion.)

EDIT MENU:

The "Account Settings" and "Preferences" commands are probably
obsolete in this menu.

VIEW MENU:

I think that "Task List" and "Calendar List" are also obsolete since
we'll be able to switch among the three modes in the Go menu
(Mail/Calendar/Tasks).

GO MENU:

Ctrl-1 through Ctrl-3 are probably already used by Thunderbird (e.g.
Ctrl-2 is for Thunderbird's address book) so maybe there should be
different shortcuts to switch among the three modes.

CALENDAR MENU:

You might be able to completely eliminate this menu since I would
expect most of the items to be in the File menu, except that I would
probably look for the "Reload" command in the View menu. By the way,
it might be clearer if you rename "Reload" to "Reload Remote
Calendars" or something.

You're probably already aware of all of these things, but I decided to
mention them anyway.

[Christian Jansen]

Thanks for your feedback, Pete.
Please find my comment below.

Regards,
Christian

Pete wrote:
> Christian wrote:
>> Before I write the bug for changing the menus in the
>> proposed way I'd would like to hear your
>> opinion on the prototype.
>> http://www.cjansen.com/lightning/calendar-mode-menu.xul
>
> That's pretty cool how you have a working menu bar on a website. :)
>
> FILE MENU:
>
> Ctrl-N normally creates a new mail message in Thunderbird, so I would
> prefer that this didn't change, at least not in Mail Mode.
>

Both, CTRL+N & CTRL+M creates new Mails. In Mail Mode CTRL+N should
create a new mail, in Calendar Mode a new event, in Task Mode a new task.

CTRL+M should create in every mode a new message.
CTRL+E should create in every mode a new event. (currently assigned to
"Edit as New")
CTRL+T should create in every mode a new task (currently assigned to
"Get New Messages for Current Account")

> (There is probably a lot of work to do in regard to keyboard
> shortcuts, but that's probably for a different discussion.)
>

> EDIT MENU:
>
> The "Account Settings" and "Preferences" commands are probably
> obsolete in this menu.

The "Account Settings" and "Preferences" commands occur on Unix only.

>
> VIEW MENU:
>
> I think that "Task List" and "Calendar List" are also obsolete since
> we'll be able to switch among the three modes in the Go menu
> (Mail/Calendar/Tasks).

I can imagine that some user will find it very convenient to have the
lists in calendar mode available.

>
> GO MENU:
>
> Ctrl-1 through Ctrl-3 are probably already used by Thunderbird (e.g.
> Ctrl-2 is for Thunderbird's address book) so maybe there should be
> different shortcuts to switch among the three modes.

You are right. Too sad.
Alternatively we could use ALT-1 to ALT-3. Would that cause any trouble
on GNOME or KDE?

>
> CALENDAR MENU:
>
> You might be able to completely eliminate this menu since I would
> expect most of the items to be in the File menu,

I'm not sure about that. In Mail mode we have "Message" (which also
comes with a New Message command ), in Calendar Mode "Calendar" and in
Task Mode (hopefully ;-) "Tasks".

> except that I would
> probably look for the "Reload" command in the View menu.

Agreed, I'll change that.

By the way,
> it might be clearer if you rename "Reload" to "Reload Remote
> Calendars" or something.

Agreed, I'll change that.

[Stefan Sitter]

Pete wrote:
> I think that Alt-1 through Alt-3 would be perfect to switch
> between Mail/Calendar/Tasks modes in Windows, but hopefully
> Mac/UNIX users will say if that would work on their computers.
>
> By the way, there is already a key binding in Lightning to switch
> from Mail mode to Calendar mode (called "openLightningKey",
> mapped to Ctrl-3). That would probably have to be removed or
> changed.

Are there any reason why Ctrl+3 needs to be removed? It's not used
by Thunderbird as far as I know. That's why it was chosen for Lightning.

[Pete]

Stefan wrote:
> Is there any reason why Ctrl+3 needs to be removed?

It doesn't matter to me if it stays. I only mentioned it in case it
would break Christian's new key bindings.

[Ulf Stroehler]

Christian Jansen wrote:
[...]

> CTRL+T should create in every mode a new task (currently assigned to
> "Get New Messages for Current Account")
>
>

means you're aware of this conflict. You know how critical it is to
change widely accepted key bindings?

-Ulf

[Ron K.]

On 8/2/2007 4:27 AM, Thunderbird leader Ulf Stroehler by teletype
announced:

The key binding in Tb 1.5.0.12 for "Get New Messages for Current
Account" is CTRL+SHIFT+T according to the Files menu. Yet when I keyed
CTRL+T my LAN activity light flashed in sync with the key press. Looks
like there is an error on the menu or that both combinations are being used.

--
Ron K.
Don't be a fonted, it's just type casting

[Christian Jansen]

Is it widely acceded? I don't know. But maybe you are right.

I propose to go with "CTRL+SHIFT+Something", as CTRL+K is binded to
"jump to search", CTRL+A for "Select All" and CTRL+S for "Save"

We would have than:

* CTRL+N for New Mail, Task, Event (this would be mode depended)
* CTRL+M for new message (available in all modes, Tb 2.0 Conform)

* CTRL+SHIFT+M for new Message (available in all modes)
* CTRL+SHIFT+T for new Task (available in all modes)
* CTRL+SHIFT+E for new Event (available in all modes)
The CTRL+SHIFT solution would assure consistency over the modes

Christian

-Christian
>
> -Ulf

[Christian Jansen]

Pete wrote:
> I think that Alt-1 through Alt-3 would be perfect to switch between
> Mail/Calendar/Tasks modes in Windows, but hopefully Mac/UNIX users
> will say if that would work on their computers.
>
> By the way, there is already a key binding in Lightning to switch from
> Mail mode to Calendar mode (called "openLightningKey", mapped to
> Ctrl-3).

Which does not seam to work correctly :-(

> That would probably have to be removed or changed.

We should do that. I guess that the Ctrl-3 short cut is only known by a
minority of our users.

Is the Ctrl-3 key binding anywhere publicly documented?

- Christian

[Stefan Sitter]

Christian Jansen wrote:
> Which does not seam to work correctly :-(

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=386479

[Christian Jansen]

An other solution could be to have:

CTRL+1 for Mail
CTRL+2 for Addressbook
CTRL+3 for Calendar
CTRL+4 for Tasks

But for this solution we should dublicate the Addressbook entry:

Tools -> Addressbook (TB 2.0)
Go -> Adressbook (TB 2.0 + Lightning)

Any thought?
-Christian

[Pete]

> CTRL+1 for Mail
> CTRL+2 for Address book
> CTRL+3 for Calendar
> CTRL+4 for Tasks

That works for me.

> CTRL+N for New Mail, Task, Event (this would be mode depended)

> CTRL+M for new message (available in all modes, Tb 2.0 Conform)
>

> CTRL+SHIFT+M for new Message (available in all modes)

> CTRL+SHIFT+T for new Task (available in all modes)

> CTRL+SHIFT+E for new Event (available in all modes)

I think that Thunderbird 2.x has recently started to use Ctrl-Shift-M
to "Move/Copy Again" (in the Message Menu). Maybe Lightning doesn't
need it since there is Ctrl-M.

[Patrick Strasser]

Christian Jansen schrieb:

>> GO MENU:
>>
>> Ctrl-1 through Ctrl-3 are probably already used by Thunderbird (e.g.
>> Ctrl-2 is for Thunderbird's address book) so maybe there should be
>> different shortcuts to switch among the three modes.
>
> You are right. Too sad.
> Alternatively we could use ALT-1 to ALT-3. Would that cause any trouble
> on GNOME or KDE?

Almost instantly. Windowmanagers like to catch their own keyboard
shortcuts. This can lead to confusding situations, with some
combinations getting to your App and some catched by the windowmanager

Moreover there are some standards or quasi-standards regarding UI Design
and keayboard shortcuts, which leaded to conflicts in FF < 2.0
(Accesskeys 1, 2, ... 0 should be used for index, help, start, next
page, prev. page and so on, but FF used it internally).

I suggest to stick with one primary Access Key like Strg, which should
be customizeable (like Cmd for Mac or Meta for Unix). So this would be
Acesss-M, with Access being system-specific.

Just my 2 €-cent...

Patrick

--
Engineers motto: cheap, good, fast: choose any two
Patrick Strasser <patrick dot strasser at tugraz dot at>
Student of Telematik, Techn. University Graz, Austria

[Greg K Nicholson]

Christian Jansen:

> Pete wrote:
>> Ctrl-1 through Ctrl-3 are probably already used by Thunderbird (e.g.
>> Ctrl-2 is for Thunderbird's address book) so maybe there should be
>> different shortcuts to switch among the three modes.
>
> You are right. Too sad.
> Alternatively we could use ALT-1 to ALT-3.

How about Ctrl+4, Ctrl+5 and Ctrl+6 ?

[Christian Jansen]

Thank you all for your valuable feedback.
The newest (pre-final?) version of the Menu can be found here:

http://www.cjansen.com/lightning/calendar-mode-menu.xul

If someone totally disagrees with the proposed structure, she or he may
raise the hand within the next couple of days. I'll write the bug for
getting this in end of this week.

Regards,
Christian

[Ray Kiddy]

I assume mis-spellings will be fixed, such as "Mozialla" and "Prefences".

I might suggest "Refresh Remote Calendars" instead of "Reload". What
seems more natural to people?

Also, and this may be because I use Calendar and not Lightning and may
not have read all this thread, but I have no idea what "Rotate" would do.

Perhaps there is nothing that can be done about it, but I am dubious of
using key, by themselves, for control. Typing just "t" to get to the
next task, for instance. And is this "t" or "shift-t"? This seems to be
a good idea only when it is really obvious which part of the window has
keyboard focus.

Other than this, though, the menus looks good. It is nice to be able to
preview the xul this way.

thanx - ray

[Pete]

Christian wrote:
> Thank you all for your valuable feedback.

Thanks for asking! :)

1) I don't think that we can use Shift-E and Shift-T to create new
events/tasks (File and Calendar menus) if these are already shortcuts
to go to the previous event/task (Go menu). Anyway, I like
Ctrl-Shift-E/T to create new events/tasks.

2) In "View > Current View", I'm not sure that it's correct to hide
the 'workweek days only' menu item in multiweek and month views (e.g.
I can currently show/hide workweek days in month view). Also, in
general, it might be a little easier for people to learn the menus if
you simply disabled such menu items instead of hiding them, but maybe
that's what you meant.

3) In "View", it would be easier to switch among
Day/Week/Multiweek/Month views with Alt-1 through Alt-4 instead of
Ctrl-Alt-1 through Ctrl-Alt-4, unless that's impossible on some OSes.
I imagine that some people frequently switch among these views and
would appreciate an easier shortcut, if possible.

4) On the Tools menu, you could specify the shortcut for the address
book (Ctrl+2). By the way, it would be nice to have an icon on the
Calendar Toolbar for the address book, but that's another thing.

Anyway, the menus look great!

[Simon Paquet]

And on the seventh day Christian Jansen spoke:

I'm fine with everything, except one thing. IMO we should completely
remove the Calendar menu as all of the items in this menu are either
already available in the file menu (new event, new task, new calendar) or
rightly belong there.

Simon
--
Calendar l10n coordinator
Calendar Website Maintainer: http://www.mozilla.org/projects/calendar
Calendar developer blog: http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/calendar

[Christian Jansen]

Ray Kiddy wrote:
> Christian Jansen wrote:
>> Thank you all for your valuable feedback.
>> The newest (pre-final?) version of the Menu can be found here:
>>
>> http://www.cjansen.com/lightning/calendar-mode-menu.xul
>>
>> If someone totally disagrees with the proposed structure, she or he
>> may raise the hand within the next couple of days. I'll write the bug
>> for getting this in end of this week.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Christian
>
> I assume mis-spellings will be fixed, such as "Mozialla" and "Prefences".

Sure. Sorry, about that.

>
> I might suggest "Refresh Remote Calendars" instead of "Reload". What
> seems more natural to people?
>
> Also, and this may be because I use Calendar and not Lightning and may
> not have read all this thread, but I have no idea what "Rotate" would do.

Would "Rotate View" make it better`? IMHO the term "View" is very
technical.

>
> Perhaps there is nothing that can be done about it, but I am dubious of
> using key, by themselves, for control. Typing just "t" to get to the
> next task, for instance. And is this "t" or "shift-t"? This seems to be
> a good idea only when it is really obvious which part of the window has
> keyboard focus.

Agreed, but it seems ok to use such keys. Please compare with Mail Mode:
-> Go -> Next -> Message

>
> Other than this, though, the menus looks good. It is nice to be able to
> preview the xul this way.
>
> thanx - ray
>

Thanks,
-Christian

[Christian Jansen]

Pete wrote:
> Christian wrote:
>> Thank you all for your valuable feedback.
>
> Thanks for asking! :)
>
>
> 1) I don't think that we can use Shift-E and Shift-T to create new
> events/tasks (File and Calendar menus) if these are already shortcuts
> to go to the previous event/task (Go menu). Anyway, I like
> Ctrl-Shift-E/T to create new events/tasks.

This was not intended. Thanks for finding that duplicate. I'll change it
to Ctrl-Shift-E/T

>
> 2) In "View > Current View", I'm not sure that it's correct to hide
> the 'workweek days only' menu item in multiweek and month views (e.g.
> I can currently show/hide workweek days in month view). Also, in
> general, it might be a little easier for people to learn the menus if
> you simply disabled such menu items instead of hiding them, but maybe
> that's what you meant.

Thunderbird several context sensitive menu entry. E.g. If a Mail is
selected no Ignore Thread/ Watch Thread option is available under the
Message menu. These options are only being displayed for News Groups.
But for me it is also ok to disable entries instead of hiding them.

>
> 3) In "View", it would be easier to switch among
> Day/Week/Multiweek/Month views with Alt-1 through Alt-4 instead of
> Ctrl-Alt-1 through Ctrl-Alt-4, unless that's impossible on some OSes.
> I imagine that some people frequently switch among these views and
> would appreciate an easier shortcut, if possible.

I'll change that to ALT 1-4, it should work on Gnome, KDE, Mac & Windows

>
> 4) On the Tools menu, you could specify the shortcut for the address
> book (Ctrl+2).

Ok

By the way, it would be nice to have an icon on the
> Calendar Toolbar for the address book, but that's another thing.

Indeed :-)

Thanks,
Christian

[Christian Jansen]

Simon Paquet wrote:
> And on the seventh day Christian Jansen spoke:

:-)

>
>> Thank you all for your valuable feedback.
>> The newest (pre-final?) version of the Menu can be found here:
>>
>> http://www.cjansen.com/lightning/calendar-mode-menu.xul
>>
>> If someone totally disagrees with the proposed structure, she or he may
>> raise the hand within the next couple of days. I'll write the bug for
>> getting this in end of this week.
>
> I'm fine with everything, except one thing. IMO we should completely
> remove the Calendar menu as all of the items in this menu are either
> already available in the file menu (new event, new task, new calendar) or
> rightly belong there.

I tend to agree, but the Mail Mode has its Message menu, and it might
make sense to have a Task menu for the Tasks mode. This would make it
somehow consistent over all three modes. Over all I'd like to decided
this later (if the Task mode is available) based on user feedback.

--Christian
>
> Simon

[Christian Jansen]

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=392584

Christian Jansen wrote:
[...]